Tru3Ta1ent got genrushed in 4 min but as Nurse this time

DwightsLifeMatters

Because so many said in the last post that the reason tru3 got genrushed was he played
1. Doc 
2. Did mistakes (aka didn't left the injured survivor to go for a healthy who was working on a gen next to him)

Nurse quick chases and no big mistakes.
Last gen popped in 4 minutes. 
The only "mistake" he did was not committing to slug or pick up the obsession DS. But if those seconds can make you lose as killer while as survivor u can chill and jerk around it just confirms how unbalanced it is.

Now what?

https://youtu.be/lP8t3FpriOg

powerbats

@PiiFree said:

@Vietfox said:
I've seen Umbra_bug, she's a beast with the huntress. She gets 3-4K in almost every match, 2K when survivors are good.
It's funny how people use Tru3's video as an example of poor balance, i guess we gotta balance the game around killers without perks and addons, what could go wrong when using perks and addons?  

It's funny that you always pick the top killer streamers to justify balance.

Let's take a look at No0b3, who just managed to get 50 escapes in a row. Let's also not forget all the other Survivor streamers with escape rates of 80% and higher.

It's simple to look at streamers that made it their job to play Dead By Daylight and use them as a reference for balance when you watch them stomping casuals.

Have you ever watched streamers play against each other? Whenever I see that, they play like pussies because they don't want to destroy and embarass the other streamer.

It appears to me that most players in this community simply never played in a coordinated SWF. If they did, they would have realized how broken it is.

It's funny you'd use that argument since most of the killer mains on here cherry pick their top streamers like Tru's videos.

DwightsLifeMatters

powerbats said:

@PiiFree said:

@Vietfox said:
I've seen Umbra_bug, she's a beast with the huntress. She gets 3-4K in almost every match, 2K when survivors are good.
It's funny how people use Tru3's video as an example of poor balance, i guess we gotta balance the game around killers without perks and addons, what could go wrong when using perks and addons?  

It's funny that you always pick the top killer streamers to justify balance.

Let's take a look at No0b3, who just managed to get 50 escapes in a row. Let's also not forget all the other Survivor streamers with escape rates of 80% and higher.

It's simple to look at streamers that made it their job to play Dead By Daylight and use them as a reference for balance when you watch them stomping casuals.

Have you ever watched streamers play against each other? Whenever I see that, they play like pussies because they don't want to destroy and embarass the other streamer.

It appears to me that most players in this community simply never played in a coordinated SWF. If they did, they would have realized how broken it is.

It's funny you'd use that argument since most of the killer mains on here cherry pick their top streamers like Tru's videos.

What do you mean with cherrypicking? I don't record my own gameplay, obviously I will use others gameplay to show the issue of DbD. And since tru3 is well known in the community and the devs had special connection with him back then in 2016 his name probably the best choice to get attention to this.
As if people would even bother to take a look if the title had the name "xXgenericNamexX got genrushed as Nurse.."
Are you okay or mental lad? 

powerbats

@PiiFree said:

@Vietfox said:
The thing is that when people talk about balance they seem to focus more on the perfect survivor squad and ignore the perfect killer.

We all know what happened when "perfect Killers" played against the depip squad.

I'd argue that Nurse is capable of creating a somewhat balanced playground but ANY other Killer will be at a massive disadvantage.

We all know they weren't playing against perfect killers just stop making yourself look foolish here since even Marth admitted they were facing baby killers doing dailies quite often. Also @ScottJund already refuted your comment earlier.

Lastly that video of depips experiment is well over a year old so you're now trying to pretend as if all the killer buffs and survivor nerfs and map changes never happened.

NMCKE

Vancold said:

Lol. I speak from a killer standpoint. I've never have a problem with genrush. Any rank.

Just because you haven't experienced the generator blitzkrieg doesn't mean it's not a problem. Rushing the generators is a problem, the game shouldn't end in less than 5 minutes.

powerbats

@DwightsLifeMatters said:

What do you mean with cherrypicking? I don't record my own gameplay, obviously I will use others gameplay to show the issue of DbD. And since tru3 is well known in the community and the devs had special connection with him back then in 2016 his name probably the best choice to get attention to this.
As if people would even bother to take a look if the title had the name "xXgenericNamexX got genrushed as Nurse.."
Are you okay or mental lad? 

So as someone else already pointed out you're cherry picking one or 2 videos to prove your point but when someone shows a high level killer doing better you say theirs proves nothing. That's the very definition of hypocrite.

He got 2 kills as an perkelss and addonless Nurse yet you're claiming that's not balanced how again and who cares if he had a special relationship. Now you're just grasping for straws after having your arguments debunked.

If we want to use the special relationship we could pull videos from others that disprove your claims and you'll just be a hypocrite about those as well.

thesuicidefox

Just want to make a point about Depip squad... none of them are actual top tier survivors. People have said Ochido isn't really that great of a survivor, which is true, but compared to individuals from Depip squad I would say he is better than any of them at survivor. Yea, they know how to loop or do certain things but it's actually very basic stuff. They still would make a ton of mistakes and get caught, the only reason they were able to pull off what they did was because of communication and a strict strategy, not because of their individual skills as survivor.You don't have to be THAT good to rush gens or loop the killer in the most basic loops.

I would argue that Monto and Puppers are better survivor players than any of Depip squad or Ochido. They can actually run from the killer for a LONG time, on top of being able to actually escape the chase and such. Closer to top tier but still not there.

Real top tier survivors don't mess up much if at all. They don't fall for any gimmicks or tricks or mindgames, and they know how to counter every killer build that exists. They can run for days, gen rush solo, and hide very very well. IDK if any streamer actually qualifies to be that level of survivor, and I've personally only seen maybe a handful of this type of player on Xbox.

JoannaVO

Genrushings happens thousands of times a day. Why would it only matter for only person? :? Come with useful solutions instead of these silly topics really

Edit: Saw the streamer chose to play without perks. Uhh, I'm quite sure every killer in the red ranks knows that Ruin is required to avoid getting genrushed. Let this video be a inspiration to using ruin. Really, you choose for something, then consequences kick in and you're not happy about it.

Slayer

PiiFree said:

You shouldn't just look at match results, you should look at the gameplay that resulted in such a match result.

If survivors play like brainless monkeys, it's obvious that the match will result in a quick 4k.

If the Killer plays like a brainless monkey, it's obvious that the match will result in a quick 0k.

Those matches are irrelevant.

Find a match where both the Killer and the Survivors had similar skill, similar loadout and both sides made no major mistakes. That's when a match should end in a 2-2.

For example a SWF like the depip squad against everyones favourite ZubatLEL. Make sure he plays ALL Killers for several matches and compare the match results.

That would reflect balance of Killers in a Warlock_2020 said:

1. Still got 2 kills
2. Had no perks or addons and still got 2 kills on a gen rush of 4 minutes?! Seriously! That is the story here. You had a good SWF with full goodies rush his gens and he still took out 2 of them without any perks and without any addons.

We are too quick to scream gen rush, but we seem to forget he was running a difficult challenge and still managed to hit the death toll number the developers have said they felt was ideal, 2 kills per match. Perhaps, it shows just how rediculously powerful the nurse is, moresoe than how much gen rush sucks.

That streamer guy  is an idiot there s no gen rush if you pressure gens when survivors dont sit on gens long but he played nurse that is not able to pressure gens ( no addons anything) . And he complains about gen rush lol. Even if you play kiler that cant pressure gens you can still put pressure on last gen if you were paying attention to gens location.

Unnamed_Freak

I'm surprised that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, it should never happen.

JoannaVO

@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

Unnamed_Freak

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

JoannaVO

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

NMCKE

JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

powerbats

@Nickenzie said:

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

Go watch Umbra_bug and tell me the game shouldn't end in under 4 minutes and people need to stop using survivor extremes while ignoring killer side as well. She aces in less than 2 minutes at time and no she's not a Nurse either.

NMCKE

powerbats said:

@Nickenzie said:

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

Go watch Umbra_bug and tell me the game shouldn't end in under 4 minutes and people need to stop using survivor extremes while ignoring killer side as well. She aces in less than 2 minutes at time and no she's not a Nurse either.

@powerbats
Do you have a link? I'm too lazy to search it up!

powerbats

@Nickenzie said:
powerbats said:

@Nickenzie said:

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

Go watch Umbra_bug and tell me the game shouldn't end in under 4 minutes and people need to stop using survivor extremes while ignoring killer side as well. She aces in less than 2 minutes at time and no she's not a Nurse either.

@powerbats
Do you have a link? I'm too lazy to search it up!

JoannaVO

@Nickenzie said:
JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

Yes, killers do definetly need perks, but if a player decides to not use perks for whatever reason then the fault is kind of on the person itself that survivors do the objective in 4 minutes. It's their only objective besides unhooking. I usually use thrill of the hunt with ruin and it gives me enough time to apply pressure.

weirdkid5

@JoannaVO said:

@Nickenzie said:
JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

Yes, killers do definetly need perks, but if a player decides to not use perks for whatever reason then the fault is kind of on the person itself that survivors do the objective in 4 minutes. It's their only objective besides unhooking. I usually use thrill of the hunt with ruin and it gives me enough time to apply pressure.

This is where we disagree. The Killers should be strong enough to win without perks. Perks should be reworked to augment the gameplay, in fashions that certain perks already do. If you have to DEPEND on perks for a certain Killer, that Killer is just garbage, like Wraith for Trapper. Nurse and Billy are really the only two that can win without perks without much extra effort.

Unnamed_Freak

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

But having to be forced to use certain perks to simply fix bad designed things is plain wrong and should never happen, it just shows that the devs are either too lazy or too incompetent. Just like Haunted Ground, instead of fixing totems, they just added a bandaid fix, that's paid btw.

Edit : apparently I can't type for #########.

Vietfox

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

But having to be forced to use certain perks to simply fix bad designed things is plain wrong and should never happen, it just shows that the devs are either too lazy or too incompetent. Just like Haunted Ground, instead of fixing totems, they just added a bandaid fix, that's paid btw.

Edit : apparently I can't type for #########.

What would be the point of running perks if you can do fine without them?

Markness

Can this company stop with the designing of hats and actually add an another objective already? This would make the game astronomically better.

You can guarantee that there will be new t-shirts and hats coming out regularly, but the game has the worst quality control of their own games. I am not spending a dime until bugs are fixed and they add an another objective.

There are games like Path of Exile that regularly update their game with new stuff (every season.. which is like 3 months), and this game developer can't even release a game that isn't riddled with bugs that have been pointed out millions of times on the PTB...

Don't expect them to change anything until their numbers go down. Trust me. Vote with your wallet/not logging in. Don't be held hostage by people being lazy.

JoannaVO

I don't disagree that killers should be more powerful than they currently are. But I mean, many survivors in the red ranks have put quite some time in this game so I don't think you can really make it possible for killers to win without perks, unless the survivors are potato and/or the killers get massive buffs. The only point I tried to make clear is that the video provided by OP proves the reason why you should use perks, and what the potential consequences of nothing having any could be.

NMCKE

JoannaVO said:

@Nickenzie said:
JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

Yes, killers do definetly need perks, but if a player decides to not use perks for whatever reason then the fault is kind of on the person itself that survivors do the objective in 4 minutes. It's their only objective besides unhooking. I usually use thrill of the hunt with ruin and it gives me enough time to apply pressure.

That's not the point, regardless perkless or not a game shouldn't end in 4 minutes. The entire survivor objective system is just flawed, especially when it can be bypassed in 4 minutes.

Now, @powerbats... The twitch thingy isn't working for me right now but I'll @ you when I'm able to see it!

powerbats

@Nickenzie said:

That's not the point, regardless perkless or not a game shouldn't end in 4 minutes. The entire survivor objective system is just flawed, especially when it can be bypassed in 4 minutes.

Now, @powerbats... The twitch thingy isn't working for me right now but I'll @ you when I'm able to see it!

So when a killer ends it in 2 minutes that's ok then and how often does a game actually end in 4 minutes here because let's be honest the cherry picking here is stupid.

JoannaVO

@Nickenzie said:
JoannaVO said:

@Nickenzie said:

JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.



Then use ruin, simple as that.



You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.



But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

Yes, killers do definetly need perks, but if a player decides to not use perks for whatever reason then the fault is kind of on the person itself that survivors do the objective in 4 minutes. It's their only objective besides unhooking. I usually use thrill of the hunt with ruin and it gives me enough time to apply pressure.

That's not the point, regardless perkless or not a game shouldn't end in 4 minutes. The entire survivor objective system is just flawed, especially when it can be bypassed in 4 minutes.

Now, @powerbats... The twitch thingy isn't working for me right now but I'll @ you when I'm able to see it!

Repeating the same thing over and over is unnecessary as I do understand the point you try to make. But then again, we are all aware that developers are not going to make any chances that would change this situation soon. So for now is trying to get yourself out of that situation as much as you can the only option you have, and ruin could help with that.

Vietfox

@Nickenzie said:

JoannaVO said:

Nickenzie said:
JoannaVO said:

Unnamed_Freak said:

JoannaVO said:

Unnamed_Freak said:

It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

Yes, killers do definetly need perks, but if a player decides to not use perks for whatever reason then the fault is kind of on the person itself that survivors do the objective in 4 minutes. It's their only objective besides unhooking. I usually use thrill of the hunt with ruin and it gives me enough time to apply pressure.

That's not the point, regardless perkless or not a game shouldn't end in 4 minutes. The entire survivor objective system is just flawed, especially when it can be bypassed in 4 minutes.

Now, powerbats... The twitch thingy isn't working for me right now but I'll @ you when I'm able to see it!

Why not? A huntress with iridescent heads can end a match in less than 4 minutes. Should we nerf IH? I don't think so.

DwightsLifeMatters

JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

What exactly is ruin? Do you mean that useless perk that gets destroyed withing 20 seconds? Or that useless perk which survivors can counter by simply hitting the skillchecks?? 

JoannaVO

@DwightsLifeMatters said:
JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

What exactly is ruin? Do you mean that useless perk that gets destroyed withing 20 seconds? Or that useless perk which survivors can counter by simply hitting the skillchecks?? 

Great skill checks*, what do you want ruin to do then? To just keep on regressing a generator so that repairing is not impossible?
You can use TOTH to avoid instant breaking of the totem.

weirdkid5

@JoannaVO said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said:
JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

What exactly is ruin? Do you mean that useless perk that gets destroyed withing 20 seconds? Or that useless perk which survivors can counter by simply hitting the skillchecks?? 

Great skill checks*, what do you want ruin to do then? To just keep on regressing a generator so that repairing is not impossible?
You can use TOTH to avoid instant breaking of the totem.

I like using Stake Out to counter Ruin

NMCKE

powerbats said:

@Nickenzie said:

That's not the point, regardless perkless or not a game shouldn't end in 4 minutes. The entire survivor objective system is just flawed, especially when it can be bypassed in 4 minutes.

Now, @powerbats... The twitch thingy isn't working for me right now but I'll @ you when I'm able to see it!

So when a killer ends it in 2 minutes that's ok then and how often does a game actually end in 4 minutes here because let's be honest the cherry picking here is stupid.

If a killer is able to end a game in 2 minutes then something is definitely wrong for the survivor side. I'll admit that every two minute game I had as a killer was solely due to the fact that the survivors were just too greedy, not because of my skill. You see this a lot by survivors rushing the hook while you devour the entire team by downing every victim who attempts to unhook in your face. About the cherry picking: Yes, I understand that not EVERY game is 4 minutes and usually games last a good 10 minutes from my typical killer games. However, seeing that the survivor role have the power to end the game practically instantly is just ridiculous honestly speaking. This needs addressing.

NMCKE

Vietfox said:

@Nickenzie said:

JoannaVO said:

Nickenzie said:
JoannaVO said:

Unnamed_Freak said:

JoannaVO said:

Unnamed_Freak said:

It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

Yes, killers do definetly need perks, but if a player decides to not use perks for whatever reason then the fault is kind of on the person itself that survivors do the objective in 4 minutes. It's their only objective besides unhooking. I usually use thrill of the hunt with ruin and it gives me enough time to apply pressure.

That's not the point, regardless perkless or not a game shouldn't end in 4 minutes. The entire survivor objective system is just flawed, especially when it can be bypassed in 4 minutes.

Now, powerbats... The twitch thingy isn't working for me right now but I'll @ you when I'm able to see it!

Why not? A huntress with iridescent heads can end a match in less than 4 minutes. Should we nerf IH? I don't think so.

@Vietfox
Iridescent heads being able to end the game in 4 minutes shows that the survivors don't know what they are doing. If I know it's a Nurse, you can bet that I'm gonna be a pain in the butt to find and down. You literally have to try and lose when it comes to the killer completely dominating you within 4 minutes. Therefore, we can't nerf things to compensate for one side's lack of skill so Iridescent heads are fine in my opinion.

NMCKE

JoannaVO said:

@Nickenzie said:
JoannaVO said:

@Nickenzie said:

JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.



Then use ruin, simple as that.



You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.



But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

Yes, killers do definetly need perks, but if a player decides to not use perks for whatever reason then the fault is kind of on the person itself that survivors do the objective in 4 minutes. It's their only objective besides unhooking. I usually use thrill of the hunt with ruin and it gives me enough time to apply pressure.

That's not the point, regardless perkless or not a game shouldn't end in 4 minutes. The entire survivor objective system is just flawed, especially when it can be bypassed in 4 minutes.

Now, @powerbats... The twitch thingy isn't working for me right now but I'll @ you when I'm able to see it!

Repeating the same thing over and over is unnecessary as I do understand the point you try to make. But then again, we are all aware that developers are not going to make any chances that would change this situation soon. So for now is trying to get yourself out of that situation as much as you can the only option you have, and ruin could help with that.

Ah, my apologies.

I see where you are coming from but it sucks that to see how busted the entire survivor objective is. :sick:

weirdkid5

@Nickenzie said:
powerbats said:

@Nickenzie said:

That's not the point, regardless perkless or not a game shouldn't end in 4 minutes. The entire survivor objective system is just flawed, especially when it can be bypassed in 4 minutes.

Now, @powerbats... The twitch thingy isn't working for me right now but I'll @ you when I'm able to see it!

So when a killer ends it in 2 minutes that's ok then and how often does a game actually end in 4 minutes here because let's be honest the cherry picking here is stupid.

If a killer is able to end a game in 2 minutes then something is definitely wrong for the survivor side. I'll admit that every two minute game I had as a killer was solely due to the fact that the survivors were just too greedy, not because of my skill. You see this a lot by survivors rushing the hook while you devour the entire team by downing every victim who attempts to unhook in your face. About the cherry picking: Yes, I understand that not EVERY game is 4 minutes and usually games last a good 10 minutes from my typical killer games. However, seeing that the survivor role have the power to end the game practically instantly is just ridiculous honestly speaking. This needs addressing.

This right here

vampire_toothy

@PiiFree said:

@Vietfox said:
I've seen Umbra_bug, she's a beast with the huntress. She gets 3-4K in almost every match, 2K when survivors are good.
It's funny how people use Tru3's video as an example of poor balance, i guess we gotta balance the game around killers without perks and addons, what could go wrong when using perks and addons?  

It's funny that you always pick the top killer streamers to justify balance.

Let's take a look at No0b3, who just managed to get 50 escapes in a row. Let's also not forget all the other Survivor streamers with escape rates of 80% and higher.

It's simple to look at streamers that made it their job to play Dead By Daylight and use them as a reference for balance when you watch them stomping casuals.

Have you ever watched streamers play against each other? Whenever I see that, they play like pussies because they don't want to destroy and embarass the other streamer.

It appears to me that most players in this community simply never played in a coordinated SWF. If they did, they would have realized how broken it is.

I would just like to point out, if you're looking for examples you aren't going to get what you want out of videos cherrypicked by youtubers or even if a streamer or youtuber had a good day as winning most of your matches is not the problem as most players are not really that great at the game. If you really want to get real results you need hard statistics of the very best players in the game as a whole and have them all play against each other and really see where that ends up going on average. General statistics hold a better answer to the issues the game has than what any video a single individual can pump out.

What becomes problematic is not what the best players are capable of as they should be rewarded for their ability to play the game well, what becomes problematic is that options become limited the more people are driven to strictly just want to win and this is where against serious players you end up with killers like leatherface, doctor and pig for instance being totally worthless and depending on the situation, just an annoying nuisance to the game itself, the same can be said about certain perks, items or addons both survivors and killers alike might have.

powerbats

@weirdkid5 said:

I like using Stake Out to counter Ruin

I do too sometimes, it's funny when teh killer runs Distressing and you're just gleefully stockpiling tokens and ironically I hit more great skill checks when I've got 4 tokens too.

powerbats

@Nickenzie said:

If a killer is able to end a game in 2 minutes then something is definitely wrong for the survivor side. I'll admit that every two minute game I had as a killer was solely due to the fact that the survivors were just too greedy, not because of my skill. You see this a lot by survivors rushing the hook while you devour the entire team by downing every victim who attempts to unhook in your face. About the cherry picking: Yes, I understand that not EVERY game is 4 minutes and usually games last a good 10 minutes from my typical killer games. However, seeing that the survivor role have the power to end the game practically instantly is just ridiculous honestly speaking. This needs addressing.

That's not always true as I said Umbra is just that good and even when she used yellow addons she's so good she can wreck in 2 minutes and under 4 quite often.

weirdkid5

@powerbats said:

@weirdkid5 said:

I like using Stake Out to counter Ruin

I do too sometimes, it's funny when teh killer runs Distressing and you're just gleefully stockpiling tokens and ironically I hit more great skill checks when I've got 4 tokens too.

Gotta save them tokens for when you fall asleep at the gen lmao

NMCKE

powerbats said:

@Nickenzie said:

If a killer is able to end a game in 2 minutes then something is definitely wrong for the survivor side. I'll admit that every two minute game I had as a killer was solely due to the fact that the survivors were just too greedy, not because of my skill. You see this a lot by survivors rushing the hook while you devour the entire team by downing every victim who attempts to unhook in your face. About the cherry picking: Yes, I understand that not EVERY game is 4 minutes and usually games last a good 10 minutes from my typical killer games. However, seeing that the survivor role have the power to end the game practically instantly is just ridiculous honestly speaking. This needs addressing.

That's not always true as I said Umbra is just that good and even when she used yellow addons she's so good she can wreck in 2 minutes and under 4 quite often.

Then the survivors are just bad, period. Yes, it takes skill on the killer's side to land ridiculous hatchets and predict mindgames but the survivors will have to give the Huntress that opportunity to do so. They probably wasn't stealthy, and they didn't know how to face the Huntress which led to their demise. It's just like Nurse, you'll get destroyed if you don't know how to play around her. If all survivors don't know how to play around her then yes, I can see a Nurse destroy the entire survivor team within 4 minutes. You see where I'm coming from?

powerbats

@Nickenzie said:
powerbats said:

@Nickenzie said:

If a killer is able to end a game in 2 minutes then something is definitely wrong for the survivor side. I'll admit that every two minute game I had as a killer was solely due to the fact that the survivors were just too greedy, not because of my skill. You see this a lot by survivors rushing the hook while you devour the entire team by downing every victim who attempts to unhook in your face. About the cherry picking: Yes, I understand that not EVERY game is 4 minutes and usually games last a good 10 minutes from my typical killer games. However, seeing that the survivor role have the power to end the game practically instantly is just ridiculous honestly speaking. This needs addressing.

That's not always true as I said Umbra is just that good and even when she used yellow addons she's so good she can wreck in 2 minutes and under 4 quite often.

Then the survivors are just bad, period. Yes, it takes skill on the killer's side to land ridiculous hatchets and predict mindgames but the survivors will have to give the Huntress that opportunity to do so. They probably wasn't stealthy, and they didn't know how to face the Huntress which led to their demise. It's just like Nurse, you'll get destroyed if you don't know how to play around her. If all survivors don't know how to play around her then yes, I can see a Nurse destroy the entire survivor team within 4 minutes. You see where I'm coming from?

If you haven't watched her then don't go saying the survivors were bad because that's the worst and laziest excuse on here. As I've said before it's always the survivors were bad and not the killer was good but if the killer does bad it's the survivors are op nerf.

DwightsLifeMatters

powerbats said:

@Nickenzie said:
powerbats said:

@Nickenzie said:

If a killer is able to end a game in 2 minutes then something is definitely wrong for the survivor side. I'll admit that every two minute game I had as a killer was solely due to the fact that the survivors were just too greedy, not because of my skill. You see this a lot by survivors rushing the hook while you devour the entire team by downing every victim who attempts to unhook in your face. About the cherry picking: Yes, I understand that not EVERY game is 4 minutes and usually games last a good 10 minutes from my typical killer games. However, seeing that the survivor role have the power to end the game practically instantly is just ridiculous honestly speaking. This needs addressing.

That's not always true as I said Umbra is just that good and even when she used yellow addons she's so good she can wreck in 2 minutes and under 4 quite often.

Then the survivors are just bad, period. Yes, it takes skill on the killer's side to land ridiculous hatchets and predict mindgames but the survivors will have to give the Huntress that opportunity to do so. They probably wasn't stealthy, and they didn't know how to face the Huntress which led to their demise. It's just like Nurse, you'll get destroyed if you don't know how to play around her. If all survivors don't know how to play around her then yes, I can see a Nurse destroy the entire survivor team within 4 minutes. You see where I'm coming from?

If you haven't watched her then don't go saying the survivors were bad because that's the worst and laziest excuse on here. As I've said before it's always the survivors were bad and not the killer was good but if the killer does bad it's the survivors are op nerf.

Can you link one of those videos of the guy called umbra who destroyed survivors who don't do big mistakes? I'm really curious lol

powerbats

Go watch a bunch so there's no cherry picking, som are mistakes and others she just outplays super well, she's like Marth on Nurse only as Huntress.

DwightsLifeMatters

powerbats said:

Go watch a bunch so there's no cherry picking, som are mistakes and others she just outplays super well, she's like Marth on Nurse only as Huntress.

I would rather like if we discuss one specific gameplay so we can dig into it instead of a whole twitch channel with a lot of vods. Just so we can be clear, you know what I mean? And since you know this streamer better than me (I actually never heard about this streamer before) you can "cherrypick" any match you want to and I promise I won't use "but you cherrypicked this match" as an excuse and we dicuss about that.

NMCKE

DwightsLifeMatters said:

powerbats said:

Go watch a bunch so there's no cherry picking, som are mistakes and others she just outplays super well, she's like Marth on Nurse only as Huntress.

I would rather like if we discuss one specific gameplay so we can dig into it instead of a whole twitch channel with a lot of vods. Just so we can be clear, you know what I mean? And since you know this streamer better than me (I actually never heard about this streamer before) you can "cherrypick" any match you want to and I promise I won't use "but you cherrypicked this match" as an excuse and we dicuss about that.

@powerbats
Same here because her twitch isn't loading for me.

powerbats said:

@Nickenzie said:
powerbats said:

@Nickenzie said:

If a killer is able to end a game in 2 minutes then something is definitely wrong for the survivor side. I'll admit that every two minute game I had as a killer was solely due to the fact that the survivors were just too greedy, not because of my skill. You see this a lot by survivors rushing the hook while you devour the entire team by downing every victim who attempts to unhook in your face. About the cherry picking: Yes, I understand that not EVERY game is 4 minutes and usually games last a good 10 minutes from my typical killer games. However, seeing that the survivor role have the power to end the game practically instantly is just ridiculous honestly speaking. This needs addressing.

That's not always true as I said Umbra is just that good and even when she used yellow addons she's so good she can wreck in 2 minutes and under 4 quite often.

Then the survivors are just bad, period. Yes, it takes skill on the killer's side to land ridiculous hatchets and predict mindgames but the survivors will have to give the Huntress that opportunity to do so. They probably wasn't stealthy, and they didn't know how to face the Huntress which led to their demise. It's just like Nurse, you'll get destroyed if you don't know how to play around her. If all survivors don't know how to play around her then yes, I can see a Nurse destroy the entire survivor team within 4 minutes. You see where I'm coming from?

If you haven't watched her then don't go saying the survivors were bad because that's the worst and laziest excuse on here. As I've said before it's always the survivors were bad and not the killer was good but if the killer does bad it's the survivors are op nerf.

I know I've told you this multiple amount of times but that's really why a killer can end the game in 2 minutes. If the killer ends the game in 2 minutes then the survivors are definitely bad, there's no way to say that they played great in that scenario.

Now about this here:
"As I've said before it's always the survivors were bad and not the killer was good but if the killer does bad it's the survivors are op nerf."

It depends, I would have to see the match on whether or not it was the survivor being bad or the killer being good.

ad19970

@Freudentrauma said:

@Bravo0413 said:
I stopped reading at "the problem is camping"......

But you feel the urge to post about your ignorance? Camping is currently fine as it can be right now, because survivor can counter it by doing the objective. If you lengthens matches, this strategy gets buffed as well. That's why it's not that easy to lengthen matches.
My suggestion was a nerf to the current pallet/vault situation into a state where survivors have to work for getting more defense. In theory this leads to potentially shorter chases at the beginning of the trial and slower gen progression, because survivors would be forced spending their time to unlock some pallets/vaults, if they don't want to get hooked fast. That would be at least the first thing I would try out. Making survivors work for some of their defenses.

Yes that's something I thought of as well. Could be a nice solution. If survivors want longer chases, they will have to spend time building pallets.

powerbats

@Nickenzie said:

It depends, I would have to see the match on whether or not it was the survivor being bad or the killer being good.

Again it comes down to it's always the survivor being bad, it's never the killer just played better excuse, when @marth88gaming or @ScottJund or Hybrid Panda. When any of the good killers out there do well it's because the survivors were bad or were potatoes etc.

NMCKE

powerbats said:

@Nickenzie said:

It depends, I would have to see the match on whether or not it was the survivor being bad or the killer being good.

Again it comes down to it's always the survivor being bad, it's never the killer just played better excuse, when @marth88gaming or @ScottJund or Hybrid Panda. When any of the good killers out there do well it's because the survivors were bad or were potatoes etc.

Pick a 2 minute Nurse YouTube video from @marth88gaming and I'll tell you if he performed great or the survivors performed poorly. I'll be as honest as possible.

Maximus7

I'll make this easier for you guys who are still arguing about this. Here's a video where I play Billy pretty damn well: https://youtu.be/xzugESV6Pxw

Game effectively ends (all 4 downed or hooked) in less than two minutes. Yet a gen still got done in about 30 seconds. Granted, three people were all on the same gen, but still, pretty damn ridiculous.

I can tell you these survivors were potatoes. Could not juke a chainsaw to save their life, the Feng didn't even attempt to BBQ juke, I only saw Bill because he ran right last me on my right, and Adam didn't even get off the gen in time.

Did I play well? ######### yeah I did. Did the survivors play well? Not in the slightest.

If they did play well, I would have got one down max at that gen, then the others would spread out and run away to other gens.

Maximus7

If you want an example with Nurse, I also have that: https://youtu.be/uVDaaG6_iIE

And here, they somehow don't complete that gen despite three people on it, they heal within Nurse's range, and then get outplayed by blinks. Game effectively ends in less than two minutes. Less opportunity for them to actually outskill here, and I got lucky while also playing pretty damn well, but staying together on a gen vs a killer who can down very quickly is suicide. And staying in her TR (with or without M&A) to heal is a bad idea.

OGlilSPOOK20

Gotta give the guy credit. He made it to rank 1 with both Killer and Survivor without any perks, items or add-ons. I just hate how people talk ######### about the guy even though he's right about a lot of stuff.

I started off as a survivor main and didn't give 0 shits about killer until I started watching him and Monto. Now I play both Killer and Survivor. All this game needs now is the DS changes, Dedicated Servers, Totem placement fixes and Hitbox fixes, this game will be pretty solid.

(Besides the jackass camping and tunnelling killers and sandbagging trolling survivors that ruins the game.)

Slayer

Nickenzie said:

JoannaVO said:

@Nickenzie said:
JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

@JoannaVO said:

@Unnamed_Freak said:

It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.

Then use ruin, simple as that.

You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.

But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.

Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.

Yes, killers do definetly need perks, but if a player decides to not use perks for whatever reason then the fault is kind of on the person itself that survivors do the objective in 4 minutes. It's their only objective besides unhooking. I usually use thrill of the hunt with ruin and it gives me enough time to apply pressure.

That's not the point, regardless perkless or not a game shouldn't end in 4 minutes. The entire survivor objective system is just flawed, especially when it can be bypassed in 4 minutes.

Now, @powerbats... The twitch thingy isn't working for me right now but I'll @ you when I'm able to see it!

So if killer didnt even defend gens ie his objectives gens shouldnt pop up in 4 minute? Really?