Tru3Ta1ent got genrushed in 4 min but as Nurse this time

DwightsLifeMatters

Because so many said in the last post that the reason tru3 got genrushed was he played
1. Doc 
2. Did mistakes (aka didn't left the injured survivor to go for a healthy who was working on a gen next to him)

Nurse quick chases and no big mistakes.
Last gen popped in 4 minutes. 
The only "mistake" he did was not committing to slug or pick up the obsession DS. But if those seconds can make you lose as killer while as survivor u can chill and jerk around it just confirms how unbalanced it is.

Now what?

https://youtu.be/lP8t3FpriOg

JammyJewels

DwightsLifeMatters said:

Tsulan said:

DwightsLifeMatters said:

JammyJewels said:

Anyone else remembering that he suffered because he was willingly doing a challenge? Anyone else remember that he chose to do the challenge? If he was gen rushed by survivors who were using perks and items and all of the tools at their disposal then it is merely a case of Tru3 intentionally restricting himself. With perks Tru3 is incredibly consistent in being seen as a great killer main who doesn’t camp and use other tactics that are deemed as unsportsmanlike. But you can’t look at this and go ”Oh yeah, killers are underpowered with no add-ons/perks!” 

Of course they’re underpowered without add-ons or perks! That’s why perks and add-ons exist. Not only to give variety but to power them up! Of course Tru3 was gen rushed as he didn’t power himself with perks. But again, this was a challenge he willingly handicapped himself to try and beat, like beating Dark Souls at Level 1. He couldn’t beat the challenge... and it’s fine. I know assuredly he’ll do excellent once he returns to normal gameplay. If he is still easily beaten when playing optimally in terms of build, gameplay or etc... then we can have a discussion thread where we can validly say the side he played was underpowered.

Tsulan said:

DwightsLifeMatters said:

Tsulan said:

Thaznar said:

Devs will never change genrush meta for survivors because they are:
a) clueless
b) lazy

Because they balance around rank 20.

They balance around rank 1. But around the boosted rank 1's lol.
So stupid. Whenever you show those crap people come with argument "but not everyone plays like this"
Yet they don't understand that it doesn't matter if 1% or 99% play like this. Balancing doesn't work around how players usually play.
What's your opinion about the match @Tsulan? Did you noticed any major mistakes made here or not like me?

He doubted about picking up the obsession. He probably thought about slugging. No big mistake there. 
He could have let claudette on the floor instead of killing her, trying to lure someone out. But that's risky without deerstalker or nurses calling. Especially since he didn't knew where the hatch was.
He chose the save 2k instead of risking getting only a 1k.

Nurse doesn't need addons or perks as much as other killers. So there wouldn't have been much of a difference anyway. 
If survivors want to gen rush, there is no stopping them. No killer can chase 4 people at the same time. 

You are missing one point: Marth88's depip squad was perkless and addonless aswell. The difference: they didn't call it challenge cuz it was still ez to stomp nearly every killer.
These two sides just confirm how unbalanced it is. Period.

Not missing anything. I know that it's easy to reach rank 1 survivor without perks.

Something got messed up with quoting. I wasn't quoting you but someone else. Sorry for the confusion. I edited it so it should be correct now. Take a look so you know to what I was referring 

I presumed you were addressing me. But it’s okay. I do not agree with a squad being an example of balance: the Devs have been trying to design the game around solo survival, not having vocal communication and organisation. SWF’s concept was added out of demand for it and has been said multiple times to not be in the game’s original design, and so comparing the power of an organised group to a singular person is not valid, in my eyes. The four, if they are communicating and know what they’re doing, will always be a more powerful force than the singular person. In solo survival the only way such teamwork could be established would be through natural leadership, through the survivors analysing perks and situations (like noticing someone had Prove Thyself) they face. Good survivors will beat bad killers, good killers will stomp bad survivors. But a good group, an already composed and communicating group, will always beat the good killers. It is only when all four survivors are solo when the true powers of killers are revealed.

PiiFree

@JammyJewels said:
I presumed you were addressing me. But it’s okay. I do not agree with a squad being an example of balance: the Devs have been trying to design the game around solo survival, not having vocal communication and organisation. SWF’s concept was added out of demand for it and has been said multiple times to not be in the game’s original design, and so comparing the power of an organised group to a singular person is not valid, in my eyes. The four, if they are communicating and know what they’re doing, will always be a more powerful force than the singular person. In solo survival the only way such teamwork could be established would be through natural leadership, through the survivors analysing perks and situations (like noticing someone had Prove Thyself) they face. Good survivors will beat bad killers, good killers will stomp bad survivors. But a good group, an already composed and communicating group, will always beat the good killers. It is only when all four survivors are solo when the true powers of killers are revealed.

Do you know that 70% of the matches include Survive with Friends?

Now that you know this, do you think it's better to balance the game around a minority and therefore have 70% of all matches rigged and in favour of Survivors?

Or do you think it would be better to balance the game around the majority and therefore have only 30% of all matches rigged and in favour of the Killer?

Keep in mind that the 30% at a disadvantage have a choice, they can always invite friends to play in a SWF while the Killers have no way to consistently avoid the 70% of rigged matches. Plus if they had a way to do so, it would lead to ~70% less matches because not many Killers would want to play rigged matches.

JammyJewels

PiiFree said:

@JammyJewels said:
I presumed you were addressing me. But it’s okay. I do not agree with a squad being an example of balance: the Devs have been trying to design the game around solo survival, not having vocal communication and organisation. SWF’s concept was added out of demand for it and has been said multiple times to not be in the game’s original design, and so comparing the power of an organised group to a singular person is not valid, in my eyes. The four, if they are communicating and know what they’re doing, will always be a more powerful force than the singular person. In solo survival the only way such teamwork could be established would be through natural leadership, through the survivors analysing perks and situations (like noticing someone had Prove Thyself) they face. Good survivors will beat bad killers, good killers will stomp bad survivors. But a good group, an already composed and communicating group, will always beat the good killers. It is only when all four survivors are solo when the true powers of killers are revealed.

Do you know that 70% of the matches include Survive with Friends?

Now that you know this, do you think it's better to balance the game around a minority and therefore have 70% of all matches rigged and in favour of Survivors?

Or do you think it would be better to balance the game around the majority and therefore have only 30% of all matches rigged and in favour of the Killer?

Keep in mind that the 30% at a disadvantage have a choice, they can always invite friends to play in a SWF while the Killers have no way to consistently avoid the 70% of rigged matches. Plus if they had a way to do so, it would lead to ~70% less matches because not many Killers would want to play rigged matches.

Actually... matches should never be in anyone’s favour. This is a PvP game after all. But to blame or punish solo survivors for the actions of grouped survivors, even if solos are the minority, is wrong. Especially given the original design for the game was for each survivor to essentially be solo, to not know if they can trust their teammates. If we were to balance the game around SWF the core design of the game is thrown out of the window and solo survivors are weakened for no fault of their own. Some people are more terrified on their own and so play on their own. Others have no one to play the game with. To force someone to group up just because of people they do not associate with is silly.

weirdkid5

@JammyJewels said:
PiiFree said:

@JammyJewels said:

I presumed you were addressing me. But it’s okay. I do not agree with a squad being an example of balance: the Devs have been trying to design the game around solo survival, not having vocal communication and organisation. SWF’s concept was added out of demand for it and has been said multiple times to not be in the game’s original design, and so comparing the power of an organised group to a singular person is not valid, in my eyes. The four, if they are communicating and know what they’re doing, will always be a more powerful force than the singular person. In solo survival the only way such teamwork could be established would be through natural leadership, through the survivors analysing perks and situations (like noticing someone had Prove Thyself) they face. Good survivors will beat bad killers, good killers will stomp bad survivors. But a good group, an already composed and communicating group, will always beat the good killers. It is only when all four survivors are solo when the true powers of killers are revealed.

Do you know that 70% of the matches include Survive with Friends?

Now that you know this, do you think it's better to balance the game around a minority and therefore have 70% of all matches rigged and in favour of Survivors?

Or do you think it would be better to balance the game around the majority and therefore have only 30% of all matches rigged and in favour of the Killer?

Keep in mind that the 30% at a disadvantage have a choice, they can always invite friends to play in a SWF while the Killers have no way to consistently avoid the 70% of rigged matches. Plus if they had a way to do so, it would lead to ~70% less matches because not many Killers would want to play rigged matches.

Actually... matches should never be in anyone’s favour. This is a PvP game after all. But to blame or punish solo survivors for the actions of grouped survivors, even if solos are the minority, is wrong. Especially given the original design for the game was for each survivor to essentially be solo, to not know if they can trust their teammates. If we were to balance the game around SWF the core design of the game is thrown out of the window and solo survivors are weakened for no fault of their own. Some people are more terrified on their own and so play on their own. Others have no one to play the game with. To force someone to group up just because of people they do not associate with is silly.

This is why I still believe one of the only real solutions to this is to make two modes of Ranked play, one that is traditional, and another that involves 5 man teams, with one dedicated Killer, facing off against another 5 man team. The team that overall gets the better emblems is the winner.

Slayer

tt_ivi_99 said:

Jack11803 said:

@tt_ivi_99 said:
To all of you people who are saying: He's playing with no perks!

Barbacue doesnt serve a purposse no more because of how many counters It has, Ruin is destroyed at the first 15 seconds of the match. The other 2 perks he would run dont really matter because almost no perks work well with Nurse since she doenst need them.

That means that even if he had perks he would be playing without them.

Meanwhile we have survivors playing with Dead Hard, DS, etc, which cant be destroyed at the first 15 seconds and have counters that take a lot of time for the killer.

And also, survivors were playing without toolboxes... It would be kind of Ok if they all had a toolbox or Leader but honestly... 4 mins gens without toolboxes is pretty damn broken.

Gen Rush is real and needs a fix.

Sloppy butcher. Nurses calling. NOED. Blood warden.

You’re just uninspired

- Sloppy: Yh, 10 more seconds to heal, right...
- Nurse's Calling: Useless in red ranks unless you are playing as a killer with less than 28m TR.
- NOED: What's the point of having that perk if totem spots are seen from miles away and are also right next to gens?
- Blood Warden: Again, what's the point if It can only be used once and by the time you get someone the hooked guy is saved...

Whispers, bloodhound, discoordance, agitation. 

Blueberry

@Theluckyboi said:
but in all honesty, what the frick is happening to tru3? his recent games have been terrible (at least from my perspective), he is very good but complaining about everything and calling the game broken because he couldnt get the kills he wanted is plain stupid

It looks stupid to you because you missed his entire point. He isn't complaing "because he couldnt get the kills" he is complaining because of the games poor balance.

powerbats

@DwightsLifeMatters said:

You are missing one point: Marth88's depip squad was perkless and addonless aswell. The difference: they didn't call it challenge cuz it was still ez to stomp nearly every killer.
These two sides just confirm how unbalanced it is. Period.

Oh good grief just stop all of you with the depip squad experiment as an example that was flawed and biased from the start and was over a year ago. The game has massively changed since then so just stop using that as an example of balance.

Also Tru screwed up plain and simple and @ScottJund pointed out all the mistakes all ready so all of you need to stop defending and or using hm as an example.

I'd rather use Monto, Zubat etc as examples and if you want 4k madness then go watch Umbra_bug destroy with ease every game.

DwightsLifeMatters

powerbats said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said:

You are missing one point: Marth88's depip squad was perkless and addonless aswell. The difference: they didn't call it challenge cuz it was still ez to stomp nearly every killer.
These two sides just confirm how unbalanced it is. Period.

Oh good grief just stop all of you with the depip squad experiment as an example that was flawed and biased from the start and was over a year ago. The game has massively changed since then so just stop using that as an example of balance.

Also Tru screwed up plain and simple and @ScottJund pointed out all the mistakes all ready so all of you need to stop defending and or using hm as an example.

I'd rather use Monto, Zubat etc as examples and if you want 4k madness then go watch Umbra_bug destroy with ease every game.

Scott confirmed himself he was nitpicking. Furthermore, even with the bad blinks tru3 downed them faster than anyone could do with another killer than Nurse, even if played perfectly. Activate your brain, you r missing the point.

Vietfox

@powerbats said:

@DwightsLifeMatters said:

You are missing one point: Marth88's depip squad was perkless and addonless aswell. The difference: they didn't call it challenge cuz it was still ez to stomp nearly every killer.
These two sides just confirm how unbalanced it is. Period.

Oh good grief just stop all of you with the depip squad experiment as an example that was flawed and biased from the start and was over a year ago. The game has massively changed since then so just stop using that as an example of balance.

Also Tru screwed up plain and simple and ScottJund pointed out all the mistakes all ready so all of you need to stop defending and or using hm as an example.

I'd rather use Monto, Zubat etc as examples and if you want 4k madness then go watch Umbra_bug destroy with ease every game.

I've seen Umbra_bug, she's a beast with the huntress. She gets 3-4K in almost every match, 2K when survivors are good.
It's funny how people use Tru3's video as an example of poor balance, i guess we gotta balance the game around killers without perks and addons, what could go wrong when using perks and addons?  

ForeheadSurviors

Blueberry said:

@Theluckyboi said:
but in all honesty, what the frick is happening to tru3? his recent games have been terrible (at least from my perspective), he is very good but complaining about everything and calling the game broken because he couldnt get the kills he wanted is plain stupid

It looks stupid to you because you missed his entire point. He isn't complaing "because he couldnt get the kills" he is complaining because of the games poor balance.

What was the outcome he was expecting? Playing against people with roughly the same hours as himself at the highest rank (Even though rank doesn’t mean anything because its how much you play the game ) he’s playing without anything and complaining which debunks his whole argument thats like playing an fps game but you’re using a pistol while everyone is using AR’s and you’re complaining because you cant win due to the lack of damage your gun is doing... 

Poweas

@weirdkid5 said:

@Poweas said:

@weirdkid5 said:
Tru3 got outplayed in this match, but it's not like that's very hard to do if you are a coordinated team.

If he had some perks he would have had some better luck. At the same time, the Survivors could have played better to. Both sides were pretty potato in this match. People saying if Tru3 played better he coulda got the 4k, but the effort needed to do that is much higher than the effort needed for Survivors to get a 4 escape. If the Survivors played better, the opposite would have happened. Killer success is solely dependent on Survivor mistakes.

Nurse's success is based on her skill. Tru3, was not playing as skilled as top tier Nurse's would have.

Nurses success also still depends on Survivors making mistakes, Nurse just has the ability to force mistakes, which other Killers do not. Smart Survivors can still dominate even a good Nurse. The only time Nurse becomes borderline unstoppable (at least to me) is if she has 4 or more blinks. I've personally never had issues with good Nurses, but someone's gonna say anecdotal evidence don't matter.

No you don't understand Nurse at all do you? Survivors can't do much against her, she will catch them and she'll do it quickly. She can't 'force mistakes' because she doesn't rely on them to win like the others. Killers who force mistakes are only Billy and Hag. They can force mistakes. Nurse can go there and blink. You need to understand her mechanics properly in order to see that she doesn't rely on the survivors messing up. You might be a Nurse who dominates at rank 1, who am I to say that you're not. But you definitely don't understand Nurse.

PiiFree

@Vietfox said:
I've seen Umbra_bug, she's a beast with the huntress. She gets 3-4K in almost every match, 2K when survivors are good.
It's funny how people use Tru3's video as an example of poor balance, i guess we gotta balance the game around killers without perks and addons, what could go wrong when using perks and addons?  

It's funny that you always pick the top killer streamers to justify balance.

Let's take a look at No0b3, who just managed to get 50 escapes in a row. Let's also not forget all the other Survivor streamers with escape rates of 80% and higher.

It's simple to look at streamers that made it their job to play Dead By Daylight and use them as a reference for balance when you watch them stomping casuals.

Have you ever watched streamers play against each other? Whenever I see that, they play like pussies because they don't want to destroy and embarass the other streamer.

It appears to me that most players in this community simply never played in a coordinated SWF. If they did, they would have realized how broken it is.

Slayer

He could keep pressure at the end when last gen left to fix and he would do fine and he took ds he didnt even try to counter it and he s not really good as nurse. Gen rush is intented. Some killers just simply cant pressure gens

DwightsLifeMatters

Slayer said:

He could keep pressure at the end when last gen left to fix and he would do fine and he took ds he didnt even try to counter it and he s not really good as nurse. Gen rush is intented. Some killers just simply cant pressure gens

Your argument got refuted before, take a look into earlier posts 

Vietfox

@PiiFree said:

@Vietfox said:
I've seen Umbra_bug, she's a beast with the huntress. She gets 3-4K in almost every match, 2K when survivors are good.
It's funny how people use Tru3's video as an example of poor balance, i guess we gotta balance the game around killers without perks and addons, what could go wrong when using perks and addons?  

It's funny that you always pick the top killer streamers to justify balance.

Let's take a look at No0b3, who just managed to get 50 escapes in a row. Let's also not forget all the other Survivor streamers with escape rates of 80% and higher.

It's simple to look at streamers that made it their job to play Dead By Daylight and use them as a reference for balance when you watch them stomping casuals.

Have you ever watched streamers play against each other? Whenever I see that, they play like pussies because they don't want to destroy and embarass the other streamer.

It appears to me that most players in this community simply never played in a coordinated SWF. If they did, they would have realized how broken it is.

Actually most of the people who said game should be balanced around good player are killer mains.

As far as i know many survivor streamers are derankers, so i would say that doesn't count. And even if it did, it's just one survivor escaping, what about the other 3?

Slayer

@Poweas said:

@weirdkid5 said:

@Poweas said:

@weirdkid5 said:
Tru3 got outplayed in this match, but it's not like that's very hard to do if you are a coordinated team.

If he had some perks he would have had some better luck. At the same time, the Survivors could have played better to. Both sides were pretty potato in this match. People saying if Tru3 played better he coulda got the 4k, but the effort needed to do that is much higher than the effort needed for Survivors to get a 4 escape. If the Survivors played better, the opposite would have happened. Killer success is solely dependent on Survivor mistakes.

Nurse's success is based on her skill. Tru3, was not playing as skilled as top tier Nurse's would have.

Nurses success also still depends on Survivors making mistakes, Nurse just has the ability to force mistakes, which other Killers do not. Smart Survivors can still dominate even a good Nurse. The only time Nurse becomes borderline unstoppable (at least to me) is if she has 4 or more blinks. I've personally never had issues with good Nurses, but someone's gonna say anecdotal evidence don't matter.

No you don't understand Nurse at all do you? Survivors can't do much against her, she will catch them and she'll do it quickly. She can't 'force mistakes' because she doesn't rely on them to win like the others. Killers who force mistakes are only Billy and Hag. They can force mistakes. Nurse can go there and blink. You need to understand her mechanics properly in order to see that she doesn't rely on the survivors messing up. You might be a Nurse who dominates at rank 1, who am I to say that you're not. But you definitely don't understand Nurse.

Against addonless nurse survivors can break line of sight which opens a window for juke or simply staying longer in a chase simple as that and dont try to juke her in the open. However nurse with addons doesnt have any counter

Kebek

Most hilarious part of this thread is that there are poeple who actually defend the fact that gens can be done so fast. Mistakes or not, perks or not, the game is fundamentally flawded with current main objective for survivors.

I hope that devs will acknowledge that survivor gameplay need significant changes so that we all can enjoy the game without matches like these beiing possible.

PiiFree

@Vietfox said:
Actually most of the people who said game should be balanced around good player are killer mains.

As far as i know many survivor streamers are derankers, so i would say that doesn't count. And even if it did, it's just one survivor escaping, what about the other 3?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

If you match 5000 hours against casuals with <500 hours, we all know what's going to happen.

Now let for example Zubat play against JenDenise, Ochido, No0b3 and whatever they're all called and see what happens. That's "high skilled". And if you balance around high skilled, you gotta make sure that they're actually skilled and not just some boosted Rank 1 scrubs like the majority of this community.

Slayer

@Kebek said:
Most hilarious part of this thread is that there are poeple who actually defend the fact that gens can be done so fast. Mistakes or not, perks or not, the game is fundamentally flawded with current main objective for survivors.

I hope that devs will acknowledge that survivor gameplay need significant changes so that we all can enjoy the game without matches like these beiing possible.

So then if gens are going to get longer to fix we can remove killers addons that allows them to pressure gens? We can remove all crutch things like Mori? We can remove hillbilly who can pressure gens by default?

weirdkid5

@Poweas said:

@weirdkid5 said:

@Poweas said:

@weirdkid5 said:
Tru3 got outplayed in this match, but it's not like that's very hard to do if you are a coordinated team.

If he had some perks he would have had some better luck. At the same time, the Survivors could have played better to. Both sides were pretty potato in this match. People saying if Tru3 played better he coulda got the 4k, but the effort needed to do that is much higher than the effort needed for Survivors to get a 4 escape. If the Survivors played better, the opposite would have happened. Killer success is solely dependent on Survivor mistakes.

Nurse's success is based on her skill. Tru3, was not playing as skilled as top tier Nurse's would have.

Nurses success also still depends on Survivors making mistakes, Nurse just has the ability to force mistakes, which other Killers do not. Smart Survivors can still dominate even a good Nurse. The only time Nurse becomes borderline unstoppable (at least to me) is if she has 4 or more blinks. I've personally never had issues with good Nurses, but someone's gonna say anecdotal evidence don't matter.

No you don't understand Nurse at all do you? Survivors can't do much against her, she will catch them and she'll do it quickly. She can't 'force mistakes' because she doesn't rely on them to win like the others. Killers who force mistakes are only Billy and Hag. They can force mistakes. Nurse can go there and blink. You need to understand her mechanics properly in order to see that she doesn't rely on the survivors messing up. You might be a Nurse who dominates at rank 1, who am I to say that you're not. But you definitely don't understand Nurse.

I speak from a Survivor standpoint. Like I said, I've never had a problem with Nurses, even at Rank 1.

ScottJund

PiiFree said:

@Vietfox said:
Actually most of the people who said game should be balanced around good player are killer mains.

As far as i know many survivor streamers are derankers, so i would say that doesn't count. And even if it did, it's just one survivor escaping, what about the other 3?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

If you match 5000 hours against casuals with <500 hours, we all know what's going to happen.

Now let for example Zubat play against JenDenise, Ochido, No0b3 and whatever they're all called and see what happens. That's "high skilled". And if you balance around high skilled, you gotta make sure that they're actually skilled and not just some boosted Rank 1 scrubs like the majority of this community.

If Zubat used omegablink they would lose almost every single time, guaranteed 

Grim

I fail to see the point in this entire thread. BHVR are fully aware of how quick gens can be done and are looking to implement fixes. Continuously reminding them doesn't solve anything.

Vietfox

@PiiFree said:

@Vietfox said:
Actually most of the people who said game should be balanced around good player are killer mains.

As far as i know many survivor streamers are derankers, so i would say that doesn't count. And even if it did, it's just one survivor escaping, what about the other 3?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

If you match 5000 hours against casuals with <500 hours, we all know what's going to happen.

Now let for example Zubat play against JenDenise, Ochido, No0b3 and whatever they're all called and see what happens. That's "high skilled". And if you balance around high skilled, you gotta make sure that they're actually skilled and not just some boosted Rank 1 scrubs like the majority of this community.

I don't know about Noob3 but the other 2 are derankers, right? I say Zubat would rekt them.
The thing is that when people talk about balance they seem to focus more on the perfect survivor squad and ignore the perfect killer.

DwightsLifeMatters

Grim said:

I fail to see the point in this entire thread. BHVR are fully aware of how quick gens can be done and are looking to implement fixes. Continuously reminding them doesn't solve anything.

Yet prove thyself got buffed for faster gens. Yeah, I have hope they fix genrush lol

DwightsLifeMatters

ScottJund said:

PiiFree said:

@Vietfox said:
Actually most of the people who said game should be balanced around good player are killer mains.

As far as i know many survivor streamers are derankers, so i would say that doesn't count. And even if it did, it's just one survivor escaping, what about the other 3?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

If you match 5000 hours against casuals with <500 hours, we all know what's going to happen.

Now let for example Zubat play against JenDenise, Ochido, No0b3 and whatever they're all called and see what happens. That's "high skilled". And if you balance around high skilled, you gotta make sure that they're actually skilled and not just some boosted Rank 1 scrubs like the majority of this community.

If Zubat used omegablink they would lose almost every single time, guaranteed 

Ofc he would, ochido and jen are not that good from what I have seen. Both derankers to bully the newbies btw

Laakeri

Saddens me to see that people still think that popular streamer means they are one of the best.

@HawkAyeTheNoo said:
Tru3 should go watch a good killer in action like Zubat and he'll learn how to slaughter survivors without the need to camp or tunnel. 

Its common mistake to think that popular streamer means they are actually good / one the best at the game they are playing.

I used to watch Tru3 and Hexy back in 2016 for the gameplay, but as soon as I got better in game I realized they are not even close to being one of best (even tho they give the idea to their viewers), they are just entertainers.

PiiFree

@Vietfox said:
The thing is that when people talk about balance they seem to focus more on the perfect survivor squad and ignore the perfect killer.

We all know what happened when "perfect Killers" played against the depip squad.

I'd argue that Nurse is capable of creating a somewhat balanced playground but ANY other Killer will be at a massive disadvantage.

ForeheadSurviors

DwightsLifeMatters said:

ScottJund said:

PiiFree said:

@Vietfox said:
Actually most of the people who said game should be balanced around good player are killer mains.

As far as i know many survivor streamers are derankers, so i would say that doesn't count. And even if it did, it's just one survivor escaping, what about the other 3?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

If you match 5000 hours against casuals with <500 hours, we all know what's going to happen.

Now let for example Zubat play against JenDenise, Ochido, No0b3 and whatever they're all called and see what happens. That's "high skilled". And if you balance around high skilled, you gotta make sure that they're actually skilled and not just some boosted Rank 1 scrubs like the majority of this community.

If Zubat used omegablink they would lose almost every single time, guaranteed 

Ofc he would, ochido and jen are not that good from what I have seen. Both derankers to bully the newbies btw

Jen isn’t good at all from what i’ve seen she only plays swf 100% of the time .

PiiFree

@ScottJund said:
If Zubat used omegablink they would lose almost every single time, guaranteed 

What if he played anything other than Nurse?

I get the impression that you think Nurse is the only Killer that can deal with high ranked Survivors?

I'm not sure if we can call the game balanced if there's only one Killer that can actually deal with them.

I'd say Nurse is balanced if not broken (depending on add-ons) but all other Killers are weak when facing competent Survivors.

Bravo0413

DwightsLifeMatters said:

Tsulan said:

Thaznar said:

Devs will never change genrush meta for survivors because they are:
a) clueless
b) lazy

Because they balance around rank 20.

They balance around rank 1. But around the boosted rank 1's lol.
So stupid. Whenever you show those crap people come with argument "but not everyone plays like this"
Yet they don't understand that it doesn't matter if 1% or 99% play like this. Balancing doesn't work around how players usually play.
What's your opinion about the match @Tsulan? Did you noticed any major mistakes made here or not like me?

Exactly.... it shouldnt be possible to end a match in just 4mins... the main thing we should be asking is how can bhvr add objectives that wont crush the balance towards the killer 

Tsulan

Bravo0413 said:

DwightsLifeMatters said:

Tsulan said:

Thaznar said:

Devs will never change genrush meta for survivors because they are:
a) clueless
b) lazy

Because they balance around rank 20.

They balance around rank 1. But around the boosted rank 1's lol.
So stupid. Whenever you show those crap people come with argument "but not everyone plays like this"
Yet they don't understand that it doesn't matter if 1% or 99% play like this. Balancing doesn't work around how players usually play.
What's your opinion about the match @Tsulan? Did you noticed any major mistakes made here or not like me?

Exactly.... it shouldnt be possible to end a match in just 4mins... the main thing we should be asking is how can bhvr add objectives that wont crush the balance towards the killer 

Since the game is heavily unbalanced towards survivors, I'd say there is plenty of breathing room .

twistedmonkey

https://youtu.be/ybIJQNAL7Q0

Easy 4k trapper rank 3, 3 dead in under 3 mins, trapper OP? There are more on YouTube just search easy 4k, spirit 4k in under 2 mins made me laugh.

These are all just as valid to as Tru's as none of these are the norm and that's the issue no one seems to realise when posting these, anyone can take a few video's out of thousands of games and scream unfair, there is a difference between what can happen and what does.

Some ways to try and sort out high ranks is to make it harder to pip (been tried and it made killer queues stupidly long), add more objectives the more you rank up which would mean no deranking as it would be too easy to not go there.but how many would just not go there is the issue.

Personally there should be more objectives imo but the way the devs have been wanting to shorten chases and adding all the aura perks I personally can't see this happening as chases would need to be longer, you also have to consider the length of a game as some already go 8-15 mins so how long would these then turn out to be?

It could make it do objective and get out which some find boring so could it affect numbers of players?

Its not simply change this or that as some seem to think, there is a he'll of a lot more to think about when making certain changes when it affects the whole user base.

DwightsLifeMatters

twistedmonkey said:

https://youtu.be/ybIJQNAL7Q0

Easy 4k trapper rank 3, 3 dead in under 3 mins, trapper OP? There are more on YouTube just search easy 4k, spirit 4k in under 2 mins made me laugh.

These are all just as valid to as Tru's as none of these are the norm and that's the issue no one seems to realise when posting these, anyone can take a few video's out of thousands of games and scream unfair, there is a difference between what can happen and what does.

Some ways to try and sort out high ranks is to make it harder to pip (been tried and it made killer queues stupidly long), add more objectives the more you rank up which would mean no deranking as it would be too easy to not go there.but how many would just not go there is the issue.

Personally there should be more objectives imo but the way the devs have been wanting to shorten chases and adding all the aura perks I personally can't see this happening as chases would need to be longer, you also have to consider the length of a game as some already go 8-15 mins so how long would these then turn out to be?

It could make it do objective and get out which some find boring so could it affect numbers of players?

Its not simply change this or that as some seem to think, there is a he'll of a lot more to think about when making certain changes when it affects the whole user base.

Everyone can upload how they stomp potatoes. This doesn't proof anything. We are discussing high level play here. 

Freudentrauma

@Tsulan said:
Bravo0413 said:

DwightsLifeMatters said:

Tsulan said:

Thaznar said:

Devs will never change genrush meta for survivors because they are:

a) clueless

b) lazy

Because they balance around rank 20.

They balance around rank 1. But around the boosted rank 1's lol.
So stupid. Whenever you show those crap people come with argument "but not everyone plays like this"
Yet they don't understand that it doesn't matter if 1% or 99% play like this. Balancing doesn't work around how players usually play.
What's your opinion about the match @Tsulan? Did you noticed any major mistakes made here or not like me?

Exactly.... it shouldnt be possible to end a match in just 4mins... the main thing we should be asking is how can bhvr add objectives that wont crush the balance towards the killer 

Since the game is heavily unbalanced towards survivors, I'd say there is plenty of breathing room .

The problem is camping. Currently rushing gens and leaving the match as soon as possible is the best counter to it. Problem is the longer it takes to achieve that counter the more reliable this strategy becomes for killers.
That's probably why the devs tried to improved things first with the healing changes. It lengthens the games, if killer chase "normally", while it didn't affect the gameplay for "camping only" killers. At least in theory. In praxis the change was minimal, I would say. I just see more medkits and healing perks now. But that's it.
Also whatever gets changed shouldn't lessen the feel to play the game. I remember how excited I was back when the Pig freshly came out. The concept of jigsaw boxes felt very exciting first, until you got used to it and realized they are barely a thread and more of the same (M1 + Skillchecks)
I think the second objective for survivors should be something which allows them to strategize and help them in chases, if done right and punish them in chases if done wrong.
That's why I suggested from time to time, that probably a certain amount of pallets and vaults could spawn looked. And can only be used, after a survivor unlocked them via an always available sabo action.
At least something in that direction. So nothing changes, when you go against a camping killer, but if you ignore that objective, you will have to deal with a lack of defense, which leads to short chases. more pressure and death. Question is, if that theory would work in practice as well. I'm not 100% sure of it.

Vietfox

@DwightsLifeMatters said:

@twistedmonkey said:

https://youtu.be/ybIJQNAL7Q0

Easy 4k trapper rank 3, 3 dead in under 3 mins, trapper OP? There are more on YouTube just search easy 4k, spirit 4k in under 2 mins made me laugh.

These are all just as valid to as Tru's as none of these are the norm and that's the issue no one seems to realise when posting these, anyone can take a few video's out of thousands of games and scream unfair, there is a difference between what can happen and what does.

Some ways to try and sort out high ranks is to make it harder to pip (been tried and it made killer queues stupidly long), add more objectives the more you rank up which would mean no deranking as it would be too easy to not go there.but how many would just not go there is the issue.

Personally there should be more objectives imo but the way the devs have been wanting to shorten chases and adding all the aura perks I personally can't see this happening as chases would need to be longer, you also have to consider the length of a game as some already go 8-15 mins so how long would these then turn out to be?

It could make it do objective and get out which some find boring so could it affect numbers of players?

Its not simply change this or that as some seem to think, there is a he'll of a lot more to think about when making certain changes when it affects the whole user base.

We are discussing high level play here. 

Then please stop using Tru3's videos as an example.

Mc_Harty

@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Everyone can upload how they stomp potatoes. This doesn't proof anything. We are discussing high level play here. 

How do we know Tru3 wasn't a potato this match then?

Bravo0413

Grim said:

I fail to see the point in this entire thread. BHVR are fully aware of how quick gens can be done and are looking to implement fixes. Continuously reminding them doesn't solve anything.

Maybe itll make it even more priority.... honestly I could go without a new killer... if they made an attempted at fixing ranking and implemented other objectives along with bugs fixes... that would be just outstanding 

PiiFree

You shouldn't just look at match results, you should look at the gameplay that resulted in such a match result.

If survivors play like brainless monkeys, it's obvious that the match will result in a quick 4k.

If the Killer plays like a brainless monkey, it's obvious that the match will result in a quick 0k.

Those matches are irrelevant.

Find a match where both the Killer and the Survivors had similar skill, similar loadout and both sides made no major mistakes. That's when a match should end in a 2-2.

For example a SWF like the depip squad against everyones favourite ZubatLEL. Make sure he plays ALL Killers for several matches and compare the match results.

That would reflect balance of Killers in a high skill environment.

Bravo0413

Freudentrauma said:

@Tsulan said:
Bravo0413 said:

DwightsLifeMatters said:

Tsulan said:

Thaznar said:

Devs will never change genrush meta for survivors because they are:

a) clueless

b) lazy

Because they balance around rank 20.

They balance around rank 1. But around the boosted rank 1's lol.
So stupid. Whenever you show those crap people come with argument "but not everyone plays like this"
Yet they don't understand that it doesn't matter if 1% or 99% play like this. Balancing doesn't work around how players usually play.
What's your opinion about the match @Tsulan? Did you noticed any major mistakes made here or not like me?

Exactly.... it shouldnt be possible to end a match in just 4mins... the main thing we should be asking is how can bhvr add objectives that wont crush the balance towards the killer 

Since the game is heavily unbalanced towards survivors, I'd say there is plenty of breathing room .

The problem is camping. Currently rushing gens and leaving the match as soon as possible is the best counter to it. Problem is the longer it takes to achieve that counter the more reliable this strategy becomes for killers.
That's probably why the devs tried to improved things first with the healing changes. It lengthens the games, if killer chase "normally", while it didn't affect the gameplay for "camping only" killers. At least in theory. In praxis the change was minimal, I would say. I just see more medkits and healing perks now. But that's it.
Also whatever gets changed shouldn't lessen the feel to play the game. I remember how excited I was back when the Pig freshly came out. The concept of jigsaw boxes felt very exciting first, until you got used to it and realized they are barely a thread and more of the same (M1 + Skillchecks)
I think the second objective for survivors should be something which allows them to strategize and help them in chases, if done right and punish them in chases if done wrong.
That's why I suggested from time to time, that probably a certain amount of pallets and vaults could spawn looked. And can only be used, after a survivor unlocked them via an always available sabo action.
At least something in that direction. So nothing changes, when you go against a camping killer, but if you ignore that objective, you will have to deal with a lack of defense, which leads to short chases. more pressure and death. Question is, if that theory would work in practice as well. I'm not 100% sure of it.

I stopped reading at "the problem is camping"......

Bravo0413

https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/ait1nv/new_fastest_generator_repair_possible_as_of_patch/?utm_source=reddit-android 

.. if anyone wants to check it out... 4 people went in to see how fast they could complete a gen and they did it in 13.6 seconds... 

Maximus7

ScottJund said:

PiiFree said:

@Vietfox said:
Actually most of the people who said game should be balanced around good player are killer mains.

As far as i know many survivor streamers are derankers, so i would say that doesn't count. And even if it did, it's just one survivor escaping, what about the other 3?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

If you match 5000 hours against casuals with <500 hours, we all know what's going to happen.

Now let for example Zubat play against JenDenise, Ochido, No0b3 and whatever they're all called and see what happens. That's "high skilled". And if you balance around high skilled, you gotta make sure that they're actually skilled and not just some boosted Rank 1 scrubs like the majority of this community.

If Zubat used omegablink they would lose almost every single time, guaranteed 

Didn't the Depip squad already prove Pii's point by the fact that only a 5-blink Nurse could pip against them when they ran perks and items? And you barely pipped with a damn good loadout against them when they all went perkless.

And before you say "nobody plays like that", I've had game after game after game where everyone just gets gens done, pop Adrenaline (usually 2-4 of them), and get out. I don't even blink anymore when I see three gens pop before my first hook as anyone other than Nurse or Billy, it's starting to get that bad. Your point about the way survivors played used to be correct, but survivors en masse for some reason decided to play smarter. And now the game's core balance issues are being shown more and more.

Though also to Pii's point, saying OchiDo is skilled is really.......outlandish tbh. Marth's Depip squad would have been a much better group to use for his argument.

twistedmonkey

DwightsLifeMatters said:

Everyone can upload how they stomp potatoes. This doesn't proof anything. We are discussing high level play here. 

This is rank 3 play so high level in terms of the game, it's just as valid as tru being high level but keep your head in the sand and only see what you want as it suits your argument.

That's the thing you fail to realise for every great team there are thousands which aren't just like killers, now if you posting your own video of a few hours of high lvl play where you constantly get gen rushed that would be something but I feel you wouldn't as it would show you just need to get better and stop trying to blame the game for all your mistakes.

Poweas

@weirdkid5 said:

@Poweas said:

@weirdkid5 said:

@Poweas said:

@weirdkid5 said:
Tru3 got outplayed in this match, but it's not like that's very hard to do if you are a coordinated team.

If he had some perks he would have had some better luck. At the same time, the Survivors could have played better to. Both sides were pretty potato in this match. People saying if Tru3 played better he coulda got the 4k, but the effort needed to do that is much higher than the effort needed for Survivors to get a 4 escape. If the Survivors played better, the opposite would have happened. Killer success is solely dependent on Survivor mistakes.

Nurse's success is based on her skill. Tru3, was not playing as skilled as top tier Nurse's would have.

Nurses success also still depends on Survivors making mistakes, Nurse just has the ability to force mistakes, which other Killers do not. Smart Survivors can still dominate even a good Nurse. The only time Nurse becomes borderline unstoppable (at least to me) is if she has 4 or more blinks. I've personally never had issues with good Nurses, but someone's gonna say anecdotal evidence don't matter.

No you don't understand Nurse at all do you? Survivors can't do much against her, she will catch them and she'll do it quickly. She can't 'force mistakes' because she doesn't rely on them to win like the others. Killers who force mistakes are only Billy and Hag. They can force mistakes. Nurse can go there and blink. You need to understand her mechanics properly in order to see that she doesn't rely on the survivors messing up. You might be a Nurse who dominates at rank 1, who am I to say that you're not. But you definitely don't understand Nurse.

I speak from a Survivor standpoint. Like I said, I've never had a problem with Nurses, even at Rank 1.

Well, you must be good at jukes or something. But try maining Nurse and please get to understand her. It's really not as easy as forcing them to mess up, she's complicated. Like Hag. Them two don't take knowledge of the game to successfully play, they take knowledge of the specific killer.

Poweas

@Maximus7 said:
ScottJund said:

PiiFree said:

@Vietfox said:

Actually most of the people who said game should be balanced around good player are killer mains.

As far as i know many survivor streamers are derankers, so i would say that doesn't count. And even if it did, it's just one survivor escaping, what about the other 3?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

If you match 5000 hours against casuals with <500 hours, we all know what's going to happen.

Now let for example Zubat play against JenDenise, Ochido, No0b3 and whatever they're all called and see what happens. That's "high skilled". And if you balance around high skilled, you gotta make sure that they're actually skilled and not just some boosted Rank 1 scrubs like the majority of this community.

If Zubat used omegablink they would lose almost every single time, guaranteed 

Didn't the Depip squad already prove Pii's point by the fact that only a 5-blink Nurse could pip against them when they ran perks and items? And you barely pipped with a damn good loadout against them when they all went perkless.

And before you say "nobody plays like that", I've had game after game after game where everyone just gets gens done, pop Adrenaline (usually 2-4 of them), and get out. I don't even blink anymore when I see three gens pop before my first hook as anyone other than Nurse or Billy, it's starting to get that bad. Your point about the way survivors played used to be correct, but survivors en masse for some reason decided to play smarter. And now the game's core balance issues are being shown more and more.

Though also to Pii's point, saying OchiDo is skilled is really.......outlandish tbh. Marth's Depip squad would have been a much better group to use for his argument.

Ochido is interesting. He isn't a bad player but he definitely isn't as good as he claims. His survivor is 10x the skill of Tru3 but other streamers are better then him just straight up.

Honestly though, getting willingly tunnelled most his games must have seriously honed his skill because he's decent. But you're correct he's not as good as Marth's depip squad.
But he's also not bad either...
It's weird.

DwightsLifeMatters

twistedmonkey said:

DwightsLifeMatters said:

Everyone can upload how they stomp potatoes. This doesn't proof anything. We are discussing high level play here. 

This is rank 3 play so high level in terms of the game, it's just as valid as tru being high level but keep your head in the sand and only see what you want as it suits your argument.

That's the thing you fail to realise for every great team there are thousands which aren't just like killers, now if you posting your own video of a few hours of high lvl play where you constantly get gen rushed that would be something but I feel you wouldn't as it would show you just need to get better and stop trying to blame the game for all your mistakes.

Lmao do you really use rank to validate it's high level play? Sure bud, every high skill player runs into the open like that David in the video instead to pallets. Stop lying to yourself, you know it's bullshit.

Freudentrauma

@Bravo0413 said:
I stopped reading at "the problem is camping"......

But you feel the urge to post about your ignorance? Camping is currently fine as it can be right now, because survivor can counter it by doing the objective. If you lengthens matches, this strategy gets buffed as well. That's why it's not that easy to lengthen matches.
My suggestion was a nerf to the current pallet/vault situation into a state where survivors have to work for getting more defense. In theory this leads to potentially shorter chases at the beginning of the trial and slower gen progression, because survivors would be forced spending their time to unlock some pallets/vaults, if they don't want to get hooked fast. That would be at least the first thing I would try out. Making survivors work for some of their defenses.

Bravo0413

Freudentrauma said:

@Bravo0413 said:
I stopped reading at "the problem is camping"......

But you feel the urge to post about your ignorance? Camping is currently fine as it can be right now, because survivor can counter it by doing the objective. If you lengthens matches, this strategy gets buffed as well. That's why it's not that easy to lengthen matches.
My suggestion was a nerf to the current pallet/vault situation into a state where survivors have to work for getting more defense. In theory this leads to potentially shorter chases at the beginning of the trial and slower gen progression, because survivors would be forced spending their time to unlock some pallets/vaults, if they don't want to get hooked fast. That would be at least the first thing I would try out. Making survivors work for some of their defenses.

Now I don't agree with camping is the problem and I've skimmed over that section ..... I do however find your idea as an objective quite intriguing... 

Warlock_2020

1. Still got 2 kills
2. Had no perks or addons and still got 2 kills on a gen rush of 4 minutes?! Seriously! That is the story here. You had a good SWF with full goodies rush his gens and he still took out 2 of them without any perks and without any addons.

We are too quick to scream gen rush, but we seem to forget he was running a difficult challenge and still managed to hit the death toll number the developers have said they felt was ideal, 2 kills per match. Perhaps, it shows just how rediculously powerful the nurse is, moresoe than how much gen rush sucks.

twistedmonkey

DwightsLifeMatters said:

Lmao do you really use rank to validate it's high level play? Sure bud, every high skill player runs into the open like that David in the video instead to pallets. Stop lying to yourself, you know it's bullshit.

Generally no as it means nothing but since you are saying your video constitutes high lvl gameplay due to simply you saying so and dismiss the other and also one of the best killers in the game as they pointed out flaws in yours while you so the same with this video.

It's all as valid a point as your trying to make so next time think a little more about who is lying to themselves and using the word bullshit as you know both videos prove a point the just differ in what point they make.

I guess it still comes down to one suits your argument while the other doesn't so you will always be dismissive of one.

Vancold

Lol. I speak from a killer standpoint. I've never have a problem with genrush. Any rank.