Returning back to No Kick / No Gen Regression meta.
Seriously, 8 regression events. It must be a joke, right?
So now perks like Surge or any other gen regression perk that can eat up these regression events without you wanting to means you may end up with generators that suddenly can't be regressed at all because survivors were either to reckless and ''drained'' those events by getting downed ( what Surge will do ) or perks like Pain Ress hitting the same gen over and and over so gen with relatively low progression will get events spent regardless.
Gen kick perks other than Pop are now bad and gen kicking is bad in general because you spend one of those 8 events for 5% regression which is reverted by survivor in 4 seconds once you leave the said gen. Before people say something like - I rarely get a game where I need to kick a gen 8 times or something, - guess what, now you will wish you had these kind of games more often because killers will now concentrate on tunneling one player out asap since gen regression gets limited.
All BHVR had to do is introduce this system when there are only 3 gens left on the map. Instead they now say - if you want to make a gen regress - make sure it does regress massively or don't touch it at all. Guess what is the best regression method in the game already? That's right - tunnel a player out. Once there are less players, this limitation suddenly doesn't feel so restricting anymore.
Mark my words - we will return to a meta where gen regression is either not effective or not possible at all. Games will be all about chase and people will simply tunnel the first target they down asap. You wanted one problem fixed - you ended up introduced few new ones.
Comments
I mean, that's not a bad idea. Should kick in when there are no other gens to do. Then again, they did say they want to hurt killers who camp specifically 3 gens at the beginning, but if they are doing that, no one is touching those 3 gens anyway.
Because it's a general nerf to entire regression system.
They could make it work strictly during 3 gen scenario but chose to work it from start so people can glue themselves to nearest gen and have no downside.
Do you understand addition?
Okay but at least as of now there are 3 perks that cause a regression event Surge, Eruption, and Pain Res. Then of course you have kicking a gen and all the perks included in that. Each perk that has its own event requires a down or a hook. Meaning if you are getting all the events without kicking you are getting between 4-8 downs, lower end using multiple perks and reduced the gen by between 64-132%. The minimum that you can do with kicks is 40%. This is in a vacuum on one generator to reach the point of not being able to regress a gen. 36 seconds bare min of survivors time, which previously was 18. But in the end you either shouldnt be kicking the gen or you have gotten insane use out of your perks. Either way it shouldnt really effect game play.
You would need to use surge 8 entire downs on the same 3 gens for it to get disabled. This change directly limits you from stacking too much regression which is a good change.
Yes I do. I also look at things from various points before making a judgement call.
Let me elaborate a bit here.
If you happen to be regressing the same gen over and over ( most likely because the gen is either close to completion or currently has the highest progress ( other gens may also have high progress, just a little less than the one that gets regressed ) ) either by kicking it or getting a benefit from the perks, that does mean you are doing one of two your main jobs well, which in case you forgot for killers are - kill all survivors and prevent them from repairing gens.
So here's entire picture - if you perform well at one job, it has to be downing and hooking survivors asap, because your potential of doing another job, which is gen defending, is constantly dwindling. If it happens that you manage to do both at same time, which gen regression perks exists for, you end up being punished for defending gens after wards. Downed a survivor and there was a gen with progress while you had a Surge Perk equipped? Yes, you regressed that gen for 8%, but in turn you used one out those 8 tokens. Why you deserve to get punished here? You did your job and got a survivor, isn't that what killer has to do? None of this is related to 3 genning situation that this change was ''supposed'' to deal with, it's a standard average game here.
You won't be getting scenario where you found a gen at 99% progression rate and regressed it back to 0 8 times. You will however be getting scenario where you intentionally or not regressed a gen at less than 50% progression rate 8 times and now you have a gen that can't be regressed at all.
What is 10% + 10% + 10% + 10% + 10% + 10% + 10% + 10% + 8 hooks?
Maybe ask yourself why killers go for so much regression in the first place.
It's 80% but there's difference between doing 80 - 10 relatively quickly and 80 - 10 very slowly in this game.
And what's the deal with 8 hooks?
Just you know Pain Resonance as it currently is is very unreliable perk. Some people are under impression that it is available to use 24 / 7 and it will always regress multiple gens with highest progress.
Same goes Pop or other perks that require hooking first.
80% is 80%, it's 72 seconds of wasted repairs either way.
8 hooks? What are you doing with all the survivors you've downed while regressing 80% of a gen with Surge?
Why are you worrying about regression on one gen when you've already eliminated survivors?
80 seconds of those wasted repaired gen time can now turn into gen that will never regress. Do they still count as wasted?
You assume that survivor has to be picked asap when it's being downed. Let's ignore 2 other survivors within your line of sight trying to get that 85%+ gen completed while you pick up and hook this downed survivor.
There are plenty of cases and situations in the game where you have to behave differently and resort to different tactics, depending on how fast or slowly things are taking place. It's never that simple.
What does a gen that can be regressed matter when you've killed two survivors already?!
And what if I hadn't killed them yet?
As I said before - if it is the game where a killer killed people at 5 gens, might as well give the remaining survivors some fighting chance. The change devs introduce impacts games it should not along with games it should be.
Feels like devs are pushing the killer meta to gen blocking instead of regression perks and the buff to Grim Embrace.
Expect more DMS, Deadlock in the future
The entire point is youre not gonna be punished because youre not gonna hit 8 stacks. 8 stacks is SO MUCH and given that each perk requires a down or a hook youre gonna win by kills and hooks anyway. The only thing I could see being a problem is a bunch of stacking of regression perks which for starters its probably a good thing to not have 4 regression but even so, I will need to wait til the PTB to test this BUT I think Surge and eruption are going to count as the same regression even since they happen at the same time. Even if they dont you get such value in the EXTREMELY RARE instance that you max the usage on a gen. Like 60% from eruption or 64% from surge is insane considering you also probably got benefits from those elsewhere. And thats not even counting the time it passively regresses. And with survivors no longer being able to tap gens but needing to be on for 4.5 seconds its going to be much harder for survivors to defend the gens they are working on from regressing. You essentially will need 2 people, one to take the killer away and one to remake the progress. This is not a bad thing. If you do find a gen at 50% that cant be regressed anymore you either kicked it 8 times or it was effected by perks 8 times. Either way you regressed the hell out of that gen and either got a huge amount from your perks or an addition 20ish percent from the increase in hitting. Not to mention the lack of tapping to stop regression. Like I am failing to see a scenerio that isn't either the perks overperforming or you over kicking and not noticing how much the buff is doing.
Because if you kick a gen 4 times and any time after that it is at 90% the buff stopped the gen from being done. 6 times same goes for 85%. The only ONLY time this change hurts you is when you break a gen 8 time and the gen wouldnt have been completed without the buff. And given that perks require downs means that if you hit it 8 times because of perks you also got alot of downs and you are in a very good spot.
This is 100% going to be like the anti camp where it almost never triggers. People flipping out over absolutely nothing as usual.
You assume that survivor has to be picked asap when it's being downed. Let's ignore 2 other survivors within your line of sight trying to get that 85%+ gen completed while you pick up and hook this downed survivor.If you're chasing survivors away from gens, it goes right back to regressing now which is a benefit you didn't have before.
But this seems like exactly the situation BHVR is trying to stop where a killer is 100% on stopping the last gen from progressing. You down a survivor, you chase the others away, meanwhile the other survivor is picked up, they reset, and the whole thing happens again. Exactly how long do you want your games to last?
I can't think of a single time where I kicked a specific gen more then 2-3 times in a game. 4 in the most extreme of circumstances
Those 8 stacks will burn quickly with specific perk stack.
Survivors not being able to tap it out will stop being the problem when they will realize how they should behave around it. 4.5 second isn't that much of a price when you know that it contributes to a gen that can't be regressed at all. As long as you don't try to repair it in the face of the killer, you will be fine. If you notice that gen is difficult to repair now for whatever reason - move to a more safer one. Eventually you will end up with un-safe gens being left which will form a triangle which you and your team mates can now break out by forcing killing to do kicks or burn remaining regression events.
The entire system now rewards you as survivor for not letting gens regress by all means. You are no longer being punished for trying to repair a gen in the bad spot, in fact, there's no more such thing as bad spot for a generator.
What makes you think you are successfully chasing ALL survivors from the gen every time? What about cases where there's one survivor hiding near and once you kick or make that gen regress he / she comes back, spends 4.5 seconds and stops regression?
I'm not against the entire idea being used when it should be, aka 3 gen, but I'm against the fact that it now allows survivors either abuse it or circumvent their poor choice of generator and allow them to hop on nearest gen in their sight. On top of that if that gen gets regressed often it is still beneficial to survivor because it will become immune to regression at some point which will make it impossible to be defended by killer, thus a free gen to repair.
I highly doubt a game like this one is going to last long enough for the 8 regressions to matter. You just took out the majority of the team, so they'd need some SERIOUS luck to be able to not only turn this game around but put you in a situation where you'll need to defend the gens in that area after 5 more surges.
This seems like a net positive for killers imho. If you are regressing a gen more than 8 times then you should have already won the game and if regressing a single gen 8 times isn't enough for you then you deserve to lose the game.
Go ahead and tell me which perks I am curious because its really kinda difficult to get there without getting some extreme usage out of the perk. Surge alone gives you min 64% for the 8 downs you got in one area of the map. That is 58 seconds of survivor time, not including either the unhook/pickup healing and regression on the 8 downs you got. Eruption is the lowest with 60% for your 4 kicks and 4 downs which is still 54 seconds of survivor time and that is 10% more than current. Are you actually getting more value from these perks on a single gen in a game, cause I cannot imagine how. If you're doing a combo, I have stated before but I will be shocked if when surge and eruption both trigger on the same gen if it doesnt count it as 1 event as you dont hear double explosion nor do survivors scream 2x. Which just leaves Pain Res which is just going to increase the potential you get off the single gen. If you are playing games where more than 8 gen regressions happen on a single gen we are playing different games. And even so I would say the perk did its job extremely well and now its up to you.
Probably so it affects the people it was intended to affect. Realistically, the people affected by this are going to be the people who hang around the same 3 gens the entire game whittling away at nearby pallets. Those people won't have any gen kicks left while people that DONT do that...will.
They'll probably tweek the number abit if need be.
You again keep using these absurdly high regression values. For some reason till that patch announcement it was considered absolutely fine to make gens regress limitless amount of times so long as they are not the part of triangle. Now you keep justifying a massive nerf to entire regression system by using these excuses while intentionally ignoring potential games that have nothing to do with 3 gen situation.
Are you per chance a survivor main? I figured this forum is full of those but even that part of community should realize where will this change lead to and how much will the game quality drop.
Reading your comments, it seems like your preferred method of gameplay is exactly why these changes are being implemented in the first place. You might enjoy dragging games out but majority of players aren't interested. Slowdown is slowdown, and that's what you're still getting. You aren't supposed to be able to stall gens completely.
Never liked the idea of stalling gens forever. Neither as survivor or killer. I oppose the changes that punish people for playing game properly while rewarding others for their carelessness and clueless behavior. This change will only do more harm than good if it stays that way.
read the patch notes
I did. Thank you.
But these aren't absurdly high regression values these are the regression values by the perk descriptors. Like if you are concerned that surge might hit a gen at less than 8% your right it might but it wont hit it below 5 again because if the survivor got off before 5 it would regress back down and there will still be 7 times left to make it regress.
Like I play both sides, I have all the achievements except booning hexes. I see killers taking away twice as much per kick and survivors not being able to tap to stop regression, a buff to the killer. I also see this being a buff to Overcharge, and Call of Brine because theres a greater chance they will be regressing longer. I see this as being a buff to Surveillance because they need to spend a while on a gen to get it to stay yellow. I see this as an encouragement to use gift of pain, dying light (probably not), thano and penti to slow down gen progress. Having a cap to how many times that a gen can lose a percentage instantly from the killer as high as 8 per individual gen is a super niche and rare nerf that comes with some huge buffs. And that nerf doesn't effect normal gameplay.
<3
Why are people upset about this? They could now buff the gen kicking perks while keeping them from being abused to afk in 3 gen.
because he prob is a 3 gen main
Until we actually decide to do something about that.
Because I'm sure they won't do that. Watch the wave of survivor main complaints and they will reduce these events from 8 to 5 instead.
There's no such thing as 3 gen main. Regardless, I don't defend 3 gens from the start like some people do as a killer. As survivor I try to avoid 3 gen by repairing at least one gen in the middle of the map.
Yes. Let's continue dictating how Killers should be playing this game so Survivors could have their fun maximized. Way to talk about freedom and fair play afterwards.
Honestly this would be best because I am so over seeing killers actively ignore an easy down to just kick a gen.
Pushing killers toward chasing is a good thing.
"I'm sorry my objective isn't to chase or down you its to ensure that these gens are only repaired by union electricians and y'all don't have certification. SMASH"
I'm not against the entire idea being used when it should be, aka 3 gen, but I'm against the fact that it now allows survivors either abuse it or circumvent their poor choice of generator and allow them to hop on nearest gen in their sight. On top of that if that gen gets regressed often it is still beneficial to survivor because it will become immune to regression at some point which will make it impossible to be defended by killer, thus a free gen to repair.People are throwing numbers at you and you're talking about hypotheticals that could happen. Give me a game scenario where the killer runs out of the ability to regress the gen when the following isn't true:
A) they defended a 3 gen from the start, the exact thing this is meant to stop
B) the killer has not won the game
C) the survivors would not have won the game anyway under the old system
On B, I don't see a scenario where you can kick/down survivors enough that you haven't won. Even presuming a worst case scenario where the killer chased survivors from the start, they randomly fell into a 3 gen, the killer though managed zero downs during the entire game, they can still make survivors repair a generator twice basically to actually finish it.
Which leads us to scenario C - if you find yourself in this position where you have four coordinated survivors, and almost no hooks, they're going to win under the game right now. If they are that good at retreating and resetting they're going to break the 3 gen, except now they'll get it done in 15ish minutes instead of taking over 30.
I can't see this as anything more than a buff, as even in extreme circumstances (Oppression/Surge/Pain Res./Eruption build) it would require all those perks hitting the same generator to reach the limit (4 from Pain, two from Eruption, one from Jolt and Oppression), which is about 5 Hooks.
If that's somehow not enough to guard generators then face the music and accept it's time to get better.
It's clear you have zero interest in fun lol
I have zero interest in engaging with someone so unrepentantly biased.
Combine gen regression and gen kick perks, add a need to kick a gen that has a high progression accumulated and you get that scenario.
Likewise.
I figured already this forums are just dominated by survivor mains so there's less and less reason to debate about fair balancing of this game.
You really want to walk in a triangle for such a long amount of time this 3gen things procs? How do you not get bored?
If you go through my entire killer history I don't think I've had a single game where this system would have punished me.
Combine gen regression and gen kick perks, add a need to kick a gen that has a high progression accumulated and you get that scenario.Then give me the scenario where it happens.
Because lots of others have laid out the math where if you actually manage to get all of these gen regression events realistically all the survivors should be dead unless you are playing only to defend the 3 gen. The only other possibility I see is a survivor team running and resetting frequently, in which case they win anyway under the current setup, it just doesn't take as long.
I guarantee you, only Chess Merchants and 3 gen Singularity's were exceeding these 8 gen kick events. You're argument for why 8 regression events for each gen is bad, is a whole nothing-burger, especially since it will take Survivors almost 5 seconds of constant progression to remove the regression effect from a gen
Survivors trying to repair a particular set of gens and keep falling because killer interrupts them but doesn't get downs because there are still safe loops available. A standard game where survivors have to repair 5 gens. So by your logic killer should sacrifice gens that are easier to defend for the sake of survivor's comfort which they will gain once killer runs out of means of defending gens.
You want to limit gen regression so much - fine. Makes chases last less., but you don't want that too. All I see here is killers shouldn't be doing this and that because it causes discomfort to survivors. The fact that every patch is aimed at telling killer players how they should be playing just demonstrates where this is all going.
It's not about survivor discomfort, it's about boredom and the flow of the game.
You as the killer should have to force out those safe loops at some point. If you just leave every time they start running towards a loop, that's entirely on you.
What's actually discomforting is that people are actually worried they will proc this 3gen thing often.
If a gen is tanking 4 kicks, 2 surges and 2 pain reses then you've already held that singular gen long enough and should be close to wrapping up the game.
I've said countless times what is causing 3 gen. This solution is a punishment and nerf to killers.
If having gen regressed so often is bad then maybe it's survivors who play bad that allow killer to regress the gen in the first place? Why don't they just stand still and give up instead?
This dictatorship trend of how killers should behave and play is another large nail to the coffin. Not so many are needed to get it sealed up and buried deep underground.
Bro all these comments and I maybe kick a single gen four times in a game and run no perks. Seems like you've become dependent on something and forgot it can be taken away. If your reaching these events you deserve to lose. At some point you gotta be honest with yourself and accept accept defeat and chase that one survivor for the 1k since you mentioned multiple times that everyone could still be alive.
As far as the forums I've I don't think there's a specific side honestly, from what I can tell, the vets have played so much that both sides seem stale and they want what's absolutely fair for the game even if that means nerfing their favorite killer, surv perk, playstyle etc. for instance im a killer main 97% and I'm ok with the changes, I'm also a nurse main that would be ok with a rework because after running her for 1k hours she's broken af.
Thing is you got people that play and want the best for the entire health of the game and then you have people who just want the best for themselves.
Survivors trying to repair a particular set of gens and keep falling because killer interrupts them but doesn't get downs because there are still safe loops available.So let's actually look at how this would play out. Killer comes across a gen and kicks it as survivors run. Killer chases, then sees that the gen is being repaired. Runs back, chases survivor off, repeat this a total of 8 times. Now because it takes 5 seconds to stop a gen from just auto regressing, this means that the survivor has to have been on the gen for at least five seconds.
So in a perfect hypothetical situation, to run out the gen charges would take 35 seconds of kick, leave for 5 seconds, and kick right as the survivor is finishing the 5 second repair without ever hitting or downing someone. This crazy scenario would require the killer to not chase and one survivor to be playing suicidality close to the gen. A much more realistic scenario would be two or three times that long if the killer was hyper focused on one gen (and hyper focusing on one gen should be a losing strategy). Which is more than enough time for survivors to finish the other end of a 3 gen before the gen kick limit ever comes in.
Wait until you find out what side I main ;)
Hint: I play almost exclusively Killer