Do YOU think Eruption needs a nerf?
It doesn't really impact my own Survivor games, but anecdotal experience aside, I think knocking the Incapacitated tiers down to 8/10/12s would be fair.
What do YOU think?
>:3
It doesn't really impact my own Survivor games, but anecdotal experience aside, I think knocking the Incapacitated tiers down to 8/10/12s would be fair.
What do YOU think?
>:3
Read THIS post.
Tldr: This is an archived version of the DBD forum, it has all posts, comments and media. The archived data will be published at the end of October. This site is not in any way affiliated with or endorsed by Behaviour Interactive.
Comments
Yes, I want call of brine and overcharge to be nerfed too, so I can watch what is the new perk that is uncounterable and needs to be nerfed, honestly eruption is kinda bs, but from the experience we had with deadmans+ pain res, i'm convinced people do not care if a combo/perk has counterplay or not, they just don't like effective regression/delay, altho for the record i'm not delusional out of that bunch eruption does not have a counter.
illNicola: Isn't a problem at all, doesn't need a nerf....
also illNicola: ... can potentially be lethal.
We're supposed to take that seriously?
Uh...so wait.
Killer applies Eruption and let's say CoB and Overcharge.
You work on the gen, it gets Erupted. You're incapacitated...but how are CoB and Overcharge still active on that gen?
Are you sure you're not playing against a hacker in this case, because I think that's impossible.
Also - hasn't Overcharge been bugged since forever, and that 5% does not actually apply? AFAIK they've never managed/bothered to fix it, but I could be mistaken.
This sort of comparison is always apples and oranges. But there are indeed situations where a killer can be essentially useless for lengths of time, especially - for example - someone keeps putting a megaboon in certain spots where it covers huge swathes of the map and is a huge time commitment to snuff. It's not a perfect comparison, sure.
But okay:
A lot of this comes down to how BHVR treats killer perks as opposed to survivor perks.
I mean, about the only perk that I can think of offhand that is still even useable after a nerf is PR. Thana? Completely junked. Overcharge? Pretty much junked, Overcharge on it's own is generally worse than an empty slot. Ruin? Almost useless.
On the other hand, Dead Hard saw 70-80% usage rates at the higher MMRs (Eruption is hovering around 20%) and that was allowed to remain as is for years - and even nerfed, it's still incredibly good. The only time a survivor perk gets the 'to the ground' treatment is when that perk is literally impossible to balance and just breaks the game (see: Boil Over).
If BHVR were a little more even handed with how they handle overperforming killer perks versus survivor perks, I think killers would be less resistant to changes. But as things stand, what will almost certainly happen is Eruption being nerfed to uselessness, and the QQ train shifting over to whatever becomes the meta next (probably PR+DMS). And once that gets nerfed...CoB? STBFL?
"The perk isn't useless against SWF, it's actually decent. There's play and counterplay. The issue is that any nerfs to this perk for the sake of solo queue would be essentially buffing SWF, or at least further reducing the number of viable killer perks against SWF. And that's not good either."
Simply changing Incapacitated to blocking the gen would level the playing field between SWF and solo, without being a nerf.
If that's not good enough, I posted a suggestion earlier in this very topic that would actually be a buff to Eruption, but would affect SWF more than soloq.
"Survivors can choose to play in a SWF or play solo. Killers cannot choose whether they face SWFs or not - so it does feel more than a little unfair to constantly gut killer perks for the sake of solo."
Someone who obviously doesn't play survivor. I cant choose when my friends, who rarely play these days, decide to come online. I'm also not going out of my way to hunt down comp teams and apply for a slot on their SWF. I can't just jump into discord with randoms I meet. So no, SWF isn't an option for me. If I want to play survivor, it has to be solo.
Yes, I've suggested the blocking thing too - but you know and I know that this won't be anywhere near enough for people, and this is not how BHVR ever goes about handling killer perks.
Nothing about using eruption and countering it is skillful.
Good shout. The incapacitation is the teal problem with it. As it stands it's way too long. Dropping it to 10 secs max seems fair.
weird , either probably you are one of those guys that do not touch any gen during the entire game or u are getting lucky that the killer isnt kicking the gen you are working on...idk ... but at the moment eruption is busted as hell on some killers with high mobility and good 1 vs 1 powers + on solo Q as survivor you will always get affected by it since people cant really know when someone is going down at that moment unlike a SWF that is playing on discord.
final thought--- Eruption by itself destroys any solo Q team and its a mediocre perk against SWF.
We have so many counters to totems now that bringing back old undying I think would be 100% okay. Granted I never thought Undying should of been nerfed in the first place considering survivors had been asking for a new objective since forever ago they were given one and then complained about it lmao.
Eruption is a serious problem though and it's pretty much all because of incapacitation. I'm thinking about it and keep all the numbers what they are right now but switch incapacitation to either exhaustion or oblivious and I think the perk is fine because I agree with whoever said incapacitation should be restricted to killer powers. You still get the regression and a strong status effect but the survivors can still play the video game.
Why should it be tied to a post-hook sytem? Are survivor gen perks tied to something?
You realize that pre buff, the perk was basically considered useless by everyone.
Blocking every gen would be to much. We already have other perks doing that. Its a unique status effect and instead of adapting, people just throw a tantrum how its not fair for solos.
The perk itself isn´t the problem. The problem is, that people got used to much to mindlessly hug gens without paying attention to their surroundings. Maybe a subtle indicator (like the blast mine on top of gens) could help survivors identify gens that got kicked.
All the tools necessary to beat eruption are available.
This whole thing is just dumb though; a lot like old ruin/undying, people just hate that eruption stops the game from being a cakewalk. If the 25 second incapacitation on eruption gets nerfed then it's likely we'll see more slugging since killers won't be able to count on having the time to chase somebody out of a 3-gen, down, hook, then finally get back to the important area to re-kick everything before 1 of the gens is double or triple teamed to completion, and all that is only if they don't eat a dead hard and get the eruption trigger completely nullified.
I would nerf the five strongest killer perks, and this is one of them. And do the same with five strongest survivor perks and don't touch the other perks. Now the meta on both sides is not as strong, less complains etc..nice!
'Nerfed across the board' is a massive exaggeration. The meta slowdown was nerfed, specifically the meta perks ruin, pop and corrupt, and eventually Thana got a net nerf after being overtuned for a bit. I'll even be generous and say Tinkerer was a slowdown perk that was nerfed. Everything else was either buffed or unchanged for regression.
Jolt has no cooldown now, base kit gen kick removes 2.5%, Eruption regression increased and longer incap, overcharge now speeds up to 200%, Gift of Pain penalty increased, Pain Res only lost information (not regression), and combined with DMS the combo is literally unchanged. And 10 extra seconds to base kit gen times on top of all that.
'Buffed faster gen perks' is just laughable. The two perks that got any kind of buff at all were Deja Vu and Overzealous... these are still not worth a perk slot. Spine chill was nerfed and no longer provides even a situational repair speed boost.
The only two new perks that affect gens are Hyperfocus and Potential energy, and PE makes overall gen progress *slower* by it's design. Hyperfocus is the only valid complaint here since it shouldn't be able to work with toolboxes, imo.
It's not that gen speed perks were 'buffed', the most common perks weren't changed at all. So with 10 extra seconds of gen time, survivors are still taking longer to do gens than before 6.1. What happened is that more survivors are running gen speed perks now than before, with the occasional Hyperfocus/stakeout player.
"Nerfed across the board' is a massive exaggeration."
Is it?
Let's take a look.
Yeah, I don't think I'm exaggerating.
"'Buffed faster gen perks' is just laughable"
IMO yes because it rewards a non-interactive and boring gameplay.
Maybe learning not to 3-gen oneself should come first.
Yes!
I had a game against Knight on RPD.
We got the best possible survivor 3 gen. We had the gen in the upstairs lobby by the library, the gen in the front courtyard, and the gen at the back at the top of the stairs by the rear exit. Furthest gens possible.
Without even using his power (simply M1ing), this Knight with the full meta build of Eruption, CoB, Overcharge and Nowhere to Hide, made it impossible to complete these gens. He would kick each gen on patrol, inevitably catch someone out with Nowhere to Hide or simply between gens, down them proccing Eruption and forcing the remaining survivors (who are rushing gens at this point) to stand still doing nothing for 25s, hook them and repeat. Between unhooking and healing, we got maybe 20 seconds worth of repairs for 40s+ of relative regression.
The only way we could have resolved this situation would have been with voice comms calling out as we're about to drop. But we were solo's.
I don't think the issue is necessarily its power level as much as it is the Incapacitated effect which prevents survivors from playing the game, it's not fun.
So while technically a nerf the Incapacitated should just be changed to blocking the gen instead. Now they can still do other things like heal, totems, go to another gen ect.
This would remove its un-fun component while not being too heavy of a nerf.
Fast Track is tied to hook states like Pop.
bumping for visibility <3
Complete agree with this. Incapacitated status seems fair, but how it has formed gameplay itself with the 30min stall-out I_CAME mentioned is unfun
I agree that some maps are an issue.
In the end, we can discuss as much as we want but the devs got their stats. (Although they've made Nurse more difficult for beginners when she is pretty bad at low ranks, so, who knows ... ?)
I've been watching some streamers recently, and I've got the tempo down now where I'd say, with Empathy, I can predict the Eruption somewhat accurately maybe 60% of the time, and very accurately maybe 35% of the time. At worst, I'm wasting a few seconds here and there, and now only get caught out when it's a Ghostface or I guess wrong.
I'm confident that with a week more's practice, I'd have that up to 50%/75%.
Why weren't you just letting go premptively? A Knight can't instadown. The person being chased should be able to run a Knight miles away from that 3gen. And if he's not chasing and only defending...well, that's a hostage situation, which is a very different discussion.
But that's the unfortunate thing. Solo queue is tough right now, but the game cannot be balanced around solo queue, and with how stupidly fast gens move right now against a HSPF team, you're just going to move to every game being PR+DMS, until those get nerfed for being too commonly used.
I didn't know randoms could call out on vc that they were about to go down......
Why aren't you on VC?
That's not meant to be sarcastic - I'm just saying that solo is both an option and by far the worst way to play survivor. This game can't be balanced around solo queue, and I'm going to be annoyed if another perk gets nerfed for the sake of solos, as that tends to make it completely useless when facing an SWF.
I don't always be in a four man swf. Sometimes just playing with one or two friends. So you can't account for the randoms.
VC isn't always an option. We're not all comp players who join tournament discord groups. Most people play with their friends.
I have three friends who play dbd, and two of them haven't played in weeks.
Btw, Eruption is already useless against SWF.
It's hardly useless - just not the unholy nightmare it is for solos.
Have you tried the DbD Discord? That's where I tend to find groups, and they are popping off basically 24/7.
Btw...
"and I'm going to be annoyed if another perk gets nerfed for the sake of solos,"
Why would it annoy you if Eruption was changed from Incapacitated to Blocking the gen? It's barely a nerf, and it will completely solve the massive skill divide between solo and SWF, while making it much less frustrating for survivors.
As far as the 'nerf' aspect goes, it's swings and roundabouts. Survivors can go away and do something else, but it means no one can just come along and jump straight back on that gen after Eruption has triggered.
Just like how Boons should never have been re-ignitable from the get go, Incapacitated should never have been an effect tied to a perk to begin with.
Not at all, that's the exact suggestion you, me and others have made.
The thing is - as I've also mentioned, it won't slow down the complain train (comtrain?) in the slightest, and will thus almost certainly be getting a much more substantial nerf.
Not a nerf, but rather a rework, Eruption, nerfed or not, is pretty much useless against any SWF with decent communication skills, and is super annoying in SoloQ, and i think it should be reworked to something that isn't dependant on a survivor team not being able to yell "oh ######### i'm about to go down get off gens for a sec" in order to do anything worthwhile
I use Eruption so that I can defend gens from a distance on killers with low mobility. The incapacitated effect doesn't matter all that much to me, personally.
I wouldn't be against getting rid of it entirely if the base damage was buffed to 12% or so. Survivors would still have less damage done to the gen overall since being off of a regressing gen for 25 seconds means ~8.5% extra damage on top of the 10% caused by the generator explosion, so a flat 12% would still be less than the ~18% done by the perk currently while still keeping the perk effective.
Also worth seeing how Eruption's effectiveness is affected by the upcoming update. Knowing when an injured survivor is being chased will give other solo survivors a chance to hop off of gens before the down.
12% would make it pretty much objectively worse than PR. Not only is it less regression, but you have to kick it (one of the core benefits of PR is time saved).
But the advantages over PR would be (1) you can damage multiple gens at once, and (2) you don't have to find a Scourge Hook or even manage to hook anyone, just get a down.
I'm trying out a build right now with PR/Pop/Dying Light/Eruption, and damn is it mean. If a gen is 99'd, you can get 22% off when you kick it with Pop, another 10% when you down someone, another 15% if you hook someone on a Scourge Hook, and then you can run back and kick another gen with Pop (which is guaranteed 12% if the gen is more than half done), and then gain a DL stack thanks to the hook, leading ultimately to a 3-24% speed penalty on top of everything else.
I'm liking this better than the CoB meta since CoB can only do 15% damage on its own, and that's only if it's left alone for 30 seconds. With this build you can get, in theory, almost a full 50% with a single kick, and since it's a flat regression, survivors can't just tap a gen to prevent further progress.
Eruption would still be useful in builds like this without being OP.
Can? Sure. If you're kicking multiple gens and people don't just finish them by the time you down someone. Or just burn through that 12%. If you're looking to damage multiple gens on down...this would honestly be a worse version of Surge too.
Yes. I've won games singlehandedly with this perk that would have been unwinnable. Haven't felt this strong since ruin affected skillchecks and the totem was never found.
Tbh, i had to look at the wiki, because no one ever uses this perk.
With the amount of anti totem perks, the whole Hex meta should go back to the drawing board. Because Hex perks are so weak, that they don´t deserve the balancing effect of being a Hex. Original Undying was giving Hex perks a better survivability but now its not rare to hear 2 thunderstrikes within the first 30-60 seconds, because totem spawns are so busted. Survivors literally spawn on top of them.
The point of buffing Erruption was probably to increase its usage numbers. Since before the patch, no one would ever use. Because it was simply a terrible perk. Exhaustion would be pointless, as Fearmonger already gives this effect with just touching a gen and Oblivious, well everyone can see where the survivor was downed.
how low mmr you need to be to catch Eruption? ( except nerse blight )
even in solo q all you do is see a man in chase injured - get of gen - then pops eruption - continue 30 sec gen with prove thyself
new Patch -genrush- hi i see small claws on injured - get of gen - eruption - genrrush- hi i see picked up surv - get of gen - Dead man Switch - genrush - hey its 3 gens done on first hook - delete game
Not really that simple.
You do not always know that a gen has been kicked. You also do not know when someone is going to go down, so if you're suggesting to get off gens whenever someone is injured, yikes.
Also, Prove Thyself isn't good. It saves like 7 seconds on a gen. The only time a PT gen will take 30 seconds is if 3 or 4 Survivors are on it, which is really really good for you as Killer, you want that.
Yesterday Eruption+PainRes combo made me repair one gen 3 times. From almost zero to almost done. We didn't finish it, after all.
And even though I think we COULD beat it if one of our teammates wasn't trying to suicide on first hook and then (much later in game) didn't bring chase into 3-gen area where we were repairing this cursed gen third time, I do think this perk needs at least something.
Yes it needs to get the Ds treatment = gutted to oblivion ,,Until then i'm playing genrush builds+ commodious + bnps in a swf ,can't get erupted if gens fly before you get ur first down
I see absolutely no realm of existence in which that perk doesn't need a nerf, it's ridiculously broken.
Not really, even as survivor gens pop extremely fast when killers run it. We escape with only like 2-3 hooks total max.
Pre-patch it wasn't terrible at all. I used it a lot and it was kinda nutty when stacked (obviously, the slowdown combo you would use was different.) It was underused simply because there where more alternative that didn't require kicking. Although, I went only against two killers who tried the same thing, a Nemesis and a Doc, and they stalled the game forever.
That's why I was shocked when they buffed it and for me it was crazy talk. If they simply reverted the buff, it would still be a very problematic perk, especially because it keeps stacking so well with gen kickers.
We back to this use empathy to guess when survivors go down malarkey? if they're across the map how do you know how much longer they could possibly last in chase? Could be a strong tile.
What if the moon was made of cheese? Would you like a slice?
Again, I didn't say that you could predict it with 100% certainty.
I'm saying that, with a bit of practice, a bit of gamesense and a bit of luck, I can avoid Eruption maybe half the time without wasting too much time - and that if I was better at the survivor side of the game, that number would go up.
This should also become a little easier with the status icons.
But as I and several others have said...how many times now? Just go ahead and made it a gen block rather than an incap.
I do... cause it wasn't used that much before it's buff... and in that buff it went from 6% Gen regression to 10% and the Incapacitated status effect went from 16 seconds to 25 seconds
So my change to it would be to give it a Oppression like cooldown after the kick... so it's either get one Gen affected and take advantage of it or wait to get more Gens affected
Same regression and Incapacitated but longer kick cooldown (if it didn't have one already)