People threatening to quit the game after this patch, why?
This patch is such a healthy change to the game. Gen speeds have been addressed and dealt with, along with camping and tunneling. Metas have been butchered. Dead Hard is dead (which is a massive relief lol). Basekit BT isn't that hard to deal with compared to Dead Hard atleast. The endurance effect stacking is now fixed after the ptb. And the grind has been reduced.
But some players (especially survivors) are threatening to leave the game saying "oh killer sided patch, solo queue is destroyed". You do realize that these slight killer buffs were necessary because kill rates weren't high enough in the first place right?
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Tunneling and camping weren't addressed. They were made stronger. Survivors got nothing this patch. Basekit BT is easily waited out. Hell they even gutted Self Care. ######### Self Care for crying out loud. Why wouldn't Survivors be unhappy?
Just by chance, do you happen to play killer more than survivor?
If I say yes, are you going to discount my words out of hand?
Because that would be pretty silly.
No it'll just help me understand if you are coping hard, or trying to gaslight people because you know the patch went entirely in your favor.
I'm doing neither, I'm giving my honest opinion after I've thought about the changes for a while.
Also, gaslighting is a real and serious thing, and in my opinion it really cheapens that important term to apply it to disagreements about video games on the internet.
So you don't think the real winners in this patch are killers?
I don't think that framing is helpful.
I think the better question to ask is "will survivors in general or solo queue in specific be unfairly harmed", and the answer to that - in my opinion - is no.
Some things got harder. Some tools were nerfed. For the most part, that happened to the things it needed to happen to, for the game's overall health.
Here's my theory.
You main killer, you know the changes to camping and tunneling is largely useless, could even be considered easier to do so.
Knowing this, you would rather people don't talk about it so the developers don't revisit camping and tunneling in the future, because it makes your games harder.
That's a pretty wild accusation to throw out there, friend.
Do you have any evidence to back that up other than that I disagree with you?
When it comes to leaving the Fog, seems I am one of the few who can stay true to my word, eh?
But then again, that is probably because I don't complain, nor quit, for the same reasons.
Killers have not got nerf other than coh and well pig gets nerfs but other than that I have't seen nerfs in a while but buffs.
If it helps, I agree with them and I play more survivor
Is it a wild accusation, from our conversation it seems pretty fair. I play both about equally and I think killers made out like a bandit. SWFs will still be annoyingly strong with OTR but SoloQ got decimated.
Do you even think camping and tunneling are a problem currently, like before patch? I am starting to think you don't.
What in particular do you agree with, many points have been brought up.
I do think camping and tunnelling are a problem, yes. I think that the most problematic versions of camping (which is mostly literally just Leatherface) get a little worse this patch, but the more common kind - usually M1 killers facecamping or any killer proxy camping - got slightly weaker as it's impossible to tunnel someone immediately off hook, meaning that it's far more likely to be a trade when saving a camped teammate and not two downs.
Tunnelling is a problem not because the killer is chasing the same survivor twice, but because it robs that survivor of agency. They're at their most vulnerable when they're freshly unhooked, and the game's had a problem for a while of not having any meaningful tools to give them an edge and tip the scales back to at least neutral ground- even DS requires you to actually get downed, and a lot of killers can close the distance again after the stun wears off. With these changes, being downed again a few feet from the hook basically shouldn't happen again, and you're going to have the opportunity to actually make it to a loop and start having agency again, or try and get out of line of sight and hide if you prefer the stealthier route. Something to make chasing you less appetising.
Obviously this can't be the end of it, but these are good first steps. Tunnelling takes a pretty noticeable hit (so long as you understand what anti-tunnel is meant to achieve), and camping... well, it's more complicated but there's a decent foundation to build anti-camp tools onto later on.
I've yet to hear any meaningful arguments for why solo queue gets "decimated". From my perspective, my solo queue games might get a little easier with this patch.
Me personally, I think there are too many interconnected global killer buffs. Just judging from other games, these little buffs are multiplicative when they are interconnected.
A 10% breaking pallet buff interacts with a 10% faster attack speed and faster bloodlust. So even though they seem like small numbers, when they interact, you get major effects.
A 12.5% increase in gens interacts with 10% faster kicking gens and 2.5% extra regression.
There's just too many interactions for me to feel comfortable with them. I would have preferred the developers slowly add global buffs, one by one, instead a bunch of them all at once.
I also wish the developers had address face-camping at gen 5 and tunneling at gen 5 more harshly in this patch, since there's so many global Killer buffs. This would have been the perfect time to make those strategies
Now, I don't play Dead Hard, but I also feel as if it is one of the few survivor perks where survivors get an opportunity to out-play killers. Reducing survivor/killer interactions like that seems like a bad idea from a game design perspective. Survivor definitely can get monotonous, and nerfing the most interactive chase perk that survivors have is going to make the survivor experience slightly less fun. (I am saying this from the perspective of a survivor player that uses Sprint Burst and a Killer player that really never had an issue with it).
Also, the Dead Hard is the only perk that allows survivors a chance to come out ahead against a face camper and Dead Hard is the best perk against the Nurse and Blight.
As much as killers hate Dead Hard, I really think this is a bad decision.
The Self Care nerf adversely affects solo-queue, so I disagree with changing it. Also, I think Kindred should have been basekit for solo queue and duo queue only. 3 and 4 man SWFs wouldn't get it at all. Or add the icons showing if someone is in a chase, doing a gen, etc. Solo queue has been hurting the worse for a while, it really needs something.
I could totally be wrong about what I'm thinking and it seems like all the streamers think this patch is the best patch ever. So I seem to be in the minority. But I really can't help but think there's going to be a bunch of killer global buff rollbacks shortly after this patch goes live.
They salty because no DH to carry them amymore. Also, solo q is only bad because of trash survs with zero game sense, with game sense must matches i get escapes
I mean I agree with you if we ignore the fact that, dead hard and DS got nerfed, OTR and DS don't work if exit gates are powered. This alone guarantees killers a kill in the end game. People aren't going to run BT anymore, so if you don't run OTR you are 100% dead in 5 seconds. People will just eat DS now because its stun isn't enough to give them meaningful safety. Remember killers got buffed across the board so they do everything faster, if they want to tunnel, that person dies much much faster than last patch.
And then there's camping, which is a lot more meaningful because gens take longer. And I agree that most of the time people don't camp to tunnel they camp to trade, which is even more cheap in my opinion. What was done to prevent free trades from killers who camp? Absolutely nothing.
So again, I just straight up disagree that tunneling or camping got harder, they got easier. And I would prefer the developers to know that now so we don't have to wait another two months to get actual fixes for things people quit the game over.
Because it’s the third patch in a row with only massive nerfs for solos
The proof will be in the pudding :P
I appreciate your PoV and look forward to seeing what's what tomorrow.
We don't jive on a lot of things, but line up on a few.
Tomorrow will be a day to remember @_@
This game isn't the same experience for everyone. At the bottom end games are the exact opposite of the top end. I'm already now having mostly bad games in solo, killers 4k all the time. The issue? Gens go too slow for how fast killers down survivors.
Now tell me why I should be positive about gens going even slower while survivors go down even faster not just where the gen speed problem is but also at the bottom of the MMR pit where you can't really get out as solo survivor once you got dumped there. Today I have not played a single game where to group managed to get more than 3 gens powered before the 4k. That's why I always shake my head when people claim that the game is automatically balanced at low MMR if they balance it solely for the top 1% of players.
No, I'm not quitting, I'll play at least killer ever now and then (a much better experience than solo survivor even now) and I'll try to get into a 4SWF, but nothing less than a reliable 4SWF will make me play survivor after this update.
Dead Hard is 100% irrelevant to the topic of tunnelling. It may have also helped in that scenario, but that was not what it was designed to do and focusing on that ignores that it was absurdly strong and 100% needed its nerf.
As for the others, I'm still on the fence about DS' stun nerf but worst case scenario is that you just replace it with OTR, which is better than DS ever was at actually being an anti-tunnel tool. They deactivate in the endgame because of course they do, the endgame is free reign to camp and tunnel because you have literally nothing else left to do, if multiple people are alive you can stick by the hook to secure one kill or use it as bait. It's not a guaranteed kill to have them deactivate, but having them still active would be a guaranteed escape.
If you define anti-tunnel as "making it impossible for the killer to tunnel", sure, these changes aren't going to do that because nothing could without serious downsides. If you more correctly understand it as "giving the survivor agency in the chase to outplay a tunnelling killer", these changes absolutely make serious strides. There's no room for ambiguity here, tunnelling got harder.
As for camping... what exactly is wrong with trading hooks? The killer isn't getting more meaningful value than they would from playing the game normally, and if it's played right they won't actually get any kills at all. Making saves more meaningful by rendering the killer incapable of getting more than a trade without leaving the hook is exactly what they should be doing to fix camping, among other things.
What still needs to be done for camping is a mix of a few things- more incentive to leave the hook is never going to be a bad idea, and some minor discouragements from lingering like a loss of points, aura reveal for the survivors, and maybe a few other penalties alongside that would go a long way-- but ultimately, killers are always going to be able to camp if they really want to. What BHVR should be looking at doing is making saves more viable, not making standing by the hook impossible.
Which, y'know, they've started with in this patch.
The devs ain't gonna do anything about camping and if they do, it might take them another six years before they realize a serious mechanic change is in order.
And may I remind you they just buffed slugging with the knock out changes, fun.
Going back to the original question - I am a survivor main, I'm not gonna quit, but probably gonna focus more on Killer, if not switch completely.
Why?
I almost exclusively play solo and it's pain enough not being able to coordinate anything, getting left on the floor, on the hook or watching your teammates crouch around the map because terror radius is scary enough to exist.
I don't mind if I die.
Tunnel me after the exit gates are powered, hell, I'm gonna come to you so you do it quicker.
Couldn't care less about the DH nerf.
I just wanna be able to play and interact with the game.
You know what is not interactive?
I'm terrible at killer and playing this role is stressful, but it is hella interactive and apparently now gonna be much more fun.
I guess well just have to disagree and watch the meta unfold, I have my money on the forums crying about it in about 2 weeks.
I will be playing a lot of killer though, so you won't see me complaining, the game just got much much more easier for my main Ghost face.
Eh, I don't blame you, but it's BHVR, that's their whole definition of a company "band-aid fixes"
Change is inevitable - except from vending machines.
Dead Hard isn't an anti tunneling perk. It's used as a get out of jail free card for everytime you play dumb. Learn to loop without it.
How is extending chase after being unhooked not an anti-tunneling perk? I don't even run dead hard, I run head on in 90% of my games. Bunch of sore winners in here. We get it you couldn't play around dead hard, it's getting nerfed, you can stop throwing a party over everyone's head.
It's simple why, surv mains are crying cuz they lose their lovely perk aka press E to dodge and waste killer's time for no reason.
And killer mains are crying over their gen perks being nerfed which I think is not that bad, and I'm 50/50 surv/killer. Prolly gens will go faster vs a decent surv team but I'm glad they grounded the trash E perk.
I'm in group one mostly. Though I can't pretend to not be pissed they gutted Botany.
Tbf, I play more survivor and I agree that DH needed a change.
Depends on how you define unfairly. Solo queue got nerfed hard though. That really can't be denied.
Can't it?
Like I said, I've yet to hear where exactly that nerf came from. The stuff that makes solo queue hard is... basically unchanged?
Your lack of information is unchanged, all the teammate-aura and team-information perks are still there. Your need to have a few clutch self-heals available hasn't gone anywhere, though BK getting a nerf is a minor hit there. You still have all the best tools for doing that, so I don't consider that "nerfed hard". Your lack of coordination with your teammates hasn't changed, since nothing in this new update really requires coordination to counter or to use, respective to the role.
Those are the (balance-relevant) things that make solo queue harder. What am I missing here?
I gave you the benefit of the doubt before, but I think we have entered delusional territory. That or being purposefully misleading.
I assure you, I'm being genuine.
Solo queue isn't just "harder", it has specific downsides that make it the weaker role. Those downsides are a lack of information and a lack of coordination. I haven't seen anything in the updates that would hint at those things getting harder, outside of maaaaybe something like Thana Legion? But I don't think that's getting "worse" so much as "more common".
Genuinely. What am I missing?
My biggest reason to leave would be because solo survivor is going to be even more lame than before.
If only they could make generators more interactive, or remove the standard skillchecks and instead at certain points of repairing add something like the wiggle skillcheck, where progression is faster if you hit greats multiple times in a row, but also gets smaller each time and would half the progress made if you miss it entirely, but stops if you hit the good skillcheck. Aka, high risk high reward. Ofcourse this would need to be balanced out, so personally I'd say you would get 20 skillchecks in a row that speeds up and grant 0.5% of progression per great skillcheck(so 10% if you hit them all), but you would also lose 0.5% of progression per hit skillcheck IF you missed(on top of the regular 10%). So if you missed the last one, you wouldnt just lose all the progression, but 10% on top of that. This isnt even adding the idea that the killer can interrupt, so you're forced to choose between a grab or losing up to 20% progression on an important gen.
And you might be like "oh, but that would basically not change gens", yes, it would. Because this would mean that at MOST, you'd save 9 seconds, meaning gens are basically guaranteed to last 81 seconds or longer on average without toolboxes. Currently, you could in theory get 1 skillcheck every 4 seconds, meaning you could sit on a generator for 64 seconds and hit all greats, giving you a generator that has an additional 12.8 second progression, meaning you'd be at basically 77 seconds and only need 3 more seconds to finish it. Thats a 67 second generator there.
It would make gens more interesting overall, because its basically 2% of the time looking at the skillchecks and not your surroundings, and 98% being able to keep track of your surroundings. With merciless storm on top of that, it would mean 4% of your time focussing on skillchecks. Rather than being interrupted every so often by a random noise. Time I could spend quickly messaging someone I know because I know I wont get any skillchecks. It would basically be autoplaying the game while I am on the gen and only require my attention to focus on whether or not the killer is coming. Because lets face it, gens are the most boring part of the game. I'd rather do anything else than doing gens. So why not do this?
And yeah, I will be quitting solo surv untill its made more interesting, but there is still swf and killer to be playing
Do you wholeheartedly think ten additional seconds of generator time does not contribute to a lack of information and coordination?
What about perk nerfs -- no effect on information or coordination either?
You sound delusional thinking this is not devastating to solo queue players -- As if it wasn't bad enough before this patch.
...No?
I mean, sure, you don't know what your teammates are doing so you don't know how progressed other generators are, but I don't see that being a bigger issue than it currently is beyond it simply slowing the game down the way it's intended to. Genuinely, how does this translate to being devastating to solo queue players? The generators aren't harder, they didn't get more difficult to complete, they don't require two players to finish... it's just ten extra seconds. To be clear, I play solo queue myself when I play survivor, and more recently I've been playing it more- I do not see how ten extra seconds is impactful to solo queue specifically.
As for the perk nerfs, categorically no. None of the team-information perks were nerfed, and the perks that got buffed weren't explicitly coordination-requiring perks like Kinship or anything, at least that I can remember. Do you have any examples for how any of these perk changes actually hurt solo queue without having clear alternatives to turn to?
Like, to be clear, solo queue is always going to have the difficulty of random teammates being unreliable, but that's not changed either way this patch.
Probably bc everyone is going to be burnt out on this game by the time the update comes.
I agree, I don't see the point of quiting a game entirely just cause of a few changes made to the game in an update. True fans at least from my perspective still stick it out thru the good and the bad. So the game makes some changes u don't like, big deal. It's a game, the changes aren't always gonna appeal to everyone and games are gonna make changes u are bound to hate.
I'm a Survivor main cause I suck being the killer and I don't like the fact they are nerfing Iron Will and making it pointless to even use. But does that mean I'm gonna get butt hurt by it and quit the game altogether. Hell no, I love playing DBD, it's one of my favorite games to play on my Switch and I'm looking forward to the update.
It's not that solos had a specific change that hurt them. Any survivor nerf hits solos harder than swf. That's how solo was nerfed hard.
But there are aspects of survivor play where solo players aren't at a disadvantage. The biggest one is chase- while being in a SWF may give you some extra tools like coordinating bodyblocks, the basic mechanics of a chase with the killer aren't any harder if you're playing in solo queue. Anything that nerfs survivors in chase (EG, the basekit killer buffs we're getting) don't hit solos harder, because being in solo queue isn't a disadvantage for that aspect of survivor play.
I would argue all the changes we get fall into those categories. The extra ten seconds of generator time doesn't really require a SWF at all, the chase buffs for killers don't hit solos harder, none of the perk nerfs are for solo's required perks like Kindred...
The only things I can think of that'd actually harm solo queue more are more minor things like Thana Legion getting slightly worse, and a handful of things (like OTR and the basekit anti-tunnel) even help solos a noticeable amount, so that's why I don't really think it's objectively true that solo queue are getting nerfed hard.
This game is all about time efficiency. By definition solo will not be as efficient. Killer has been made more efficient. Which means the less efficient solos are impacted more by those buffs.
We need changes on survivor side, there are too many and not enough killers. So this will make queue times go down for survivors and be a good thing for the game Sorry you can't deal with things changing and survivors getting the short stick for once. Killers have been getting it for quite some time, with minimal buffs and plenty of nerfs, while survivors have gotten plenty of buffs, some nerfs to the buffs they got, more buffs, some nerfs to the buffs they got, having equivalent items (keys and moris) with the survivors nerfs to them coming months later after TWO nerfs to Moris. So no, this is all fine.
Survivors don't need a buff to hook state time, they already got a massive buff to them without the change to generators at the time being equivalent to the time survivors got. So now its just finally catching up to where things should be.
"I’ve started playing Evil Dead, a much more optimized/balanced game" Lol.. That game is survivor sided as hell. Even more so than DbD. Especially when you play with your friends.
(4) I use full healing build on teammate (Botany, Desperate measure...) and using a Medkit to heal myself. The incoming Botany doesnt allow me to heal myself at all...
They are just finally doing what they should have done awhile ago out of desperation with people leaving and survivor queue times being especially long since there isn't enough killers. They should buff killers first and then buff SoloQ, they've been trying to do the opposite for years and just made killers feel overlooked and underappreciated, while just giving more power to Survivors in general and even more to SWF.
Yeah that's why I have a 50 winning streak as Necro.
Tell me you are bad at a game without telling me you're bad at a game.
Let me know if you wanna team up in another game 😊