Survive with Friends - BHVR's Deal with the Devil
Picture a horror movie where everyone is in the same call. That is what SWF is.
SWF with Coms is, in my opinion, the single greatest problem in the game because it throws everything off balance.
DBD has a lot of perks that can be broken if timed correctly, but they are limited in effectiveness by that exact same timing. But if you happen to know exactly what the killer is doing at all times, it can be very easy to use these perks to their fullest effect.
As Solo Que, Soul Guard is a perk that will rarely be used. In SWF, it is a very powerful way to deny a down.
Speaking of Perks, SWF can do something so evil and so broken that I consider it to be one of the strongest things survivors can do. They can all play the same character. This makes keeping track of whose who incredibly hard and can easily make it impossible to keep track of which survivor has which perk. Combine this with the aforementioned ability to make certain perks very strong, and you can make the killer have a very, very bad time.
However, it should be noted that not all SWF are like this. In fact, most SWF are just that, friends playing a game together.
This leads us to the reason why SWF is a Deal with the Devil.
On One Hand, players get to play with their friends which greatly increases the amount of enjoyment for many people.
On the Other Hand, the potential to abuse SWF to make the killer's life miserable is now there.
While I don't think that SWF are responsible for all killer's toxic behavior, I do think that it can easy lead to a sort of arms race where killers always bring the strongest stuff because they don't want to have to go up against a fully decked out SWF with a weak build.
SWF, for all of the fun it can give people, completely changes the balance of the game. What is supposed to be four strangers taken from their world and forced to work together despite their differences to escape from an crazed, unstoppable killer turns into four survivors who all have cell phones working to complete some generators in order to escape for a killer that is actually quite stoppable.
Comments
SWF will never be removed or the game dies, most people play the game precisely because they want to play with friends, I personally never play unless I play with a friend, if they remove SWF we would probably never play again, we would just migrate to another game that allows us to play together...
I suppose you don't know what "SWF" means, SWF in this game is pretty much same word as pre made or party, which allows people to play with specified person of their choice.
Since it is not based on RNG like solo Q (which is equivalent of random matches btw), all players can reliably reach much higher MMR than they have in Solo Q, so yes they do, you can't deny a fact.
I can go Nurse with omegablink range right now with midwhich offering and get a 100% winrate, doesn't mean I will do it
SWF can do exactly what you stated, doesn't mean they will do it.
It's just a potential, nothing else, that % of people doing so are so small that you as a killer will at best face it 1/100 games
Considering how dead hard goes, I'm pretty sure they will do it.
Friday 13th me and my friends always team when one is jason and the others tell where other counselors are. It is very counselor sided game if they are in group so it is easy to kill jason. It's still fun game you don't have to work 80s for generator.
Most swf are very beatable even easier than solos who know what to do. Swf survivors play more risky and than that can end you slugging them all or just get enough pressure to win the game. But if they are good loopers in swf who play perfectly that is like when you face nurse as survivor both are broken.
"what most killers want is just want easy match on Solo because Swfs have easy match on Killers"
What killers want are Fair matches. The rhetoric of buffing killer when solo queue gets addressed is 6 years old.
You missed another important part.
Every multiplayer game that allows you to play with your friends and has PvP content/environment is balanced around that idea, DBD is not and was not at release (Do I have to remind you that on release SWF did not exist?) ready for 4 friends in coms.
League of Legends is PvP and is balanced around Solos/Duos and teams.
Sea Of Thieves is PvP/Pve and is balanced around Solos/Duos/Trios/4 players squads.
World of Warcraft is PvP/Pve and is balanced around teams, certain classes got nerfs due to Pvp Arena/RBG comps.
CSGO is PvP and is balanced around SoloQ and teams
DBD is not balanced around teams, and that makes SWF gigastrong and impossible to deal with them unless killers play S+ or S killers.
"Nerfing SWF will kill DBD" yeah bruh, remember this -> Without killers, DBD is also unplayable, and following this route the near future is a massive killer drop with the new Prove + Off The Record meta on survivor side, with Panzer survivors rushing gens without any way to stop them, because our Antigen build is nerfed to the ground.
swf is broken we all know that, people complaining about if swf get change it will kill the game are just paranoid people with obviously too much time on their hands.
Honestly I think swf should only be in customs, it’s just not fair that one killer can go up against 4 sweaty survivors that have basically 247 uav and probably have more time and experience then the casual killer.
solo survivors shouldn’t expect to carry the entire match by themselves every game. There are 4 survivors they shouldn’t all be super solo gods that can always get a 4 man escape without teamwork.if that the case they should just play a single player game where everything is scripted for you to win.
Although if solo queue were improved, fewer survivors might see it as the only option.
Someone finally put it into words. Most people don't play SWF to "bully" the Killer, although there are some who do that. They play it because Solo Q is absolutely ######### miserable.
Yeah I mean people who want to do bully squad things will still do that as will people who just like playing with their regular friend group but there's a not-insignificant amount of people who will just link up with strangers on discord if they want to play survivor and the choice is that or solo
If I can recall hearing when survive with friends didn't exist people just constantly lobby dodged to play with friends would you seriously want that?
Friday the 13th has questionably a more mature audience though.
Absolutely yes. I don't like SWF, is the biggest can..... On DBD
You seriously think this game will thrive with swfs being gone?
yes, do you think this game will thrive from clunky weak killers that punish you for being too good
put a patent on that !
This is actually a really good breakdown of why players don't magically get better in a SWF, so I don't think this is having the effect that you think it is.
To start, these are not the callouts of a less-skilled player. These are the callouts of players who already know what they're doing and would be making good decisions whether they were on call or not. Nobody will deny that it allows these players to be more effective and coordinated, but players do not get better when they're put on comms. If a player isn't good, they aren't going to make these callouts, nor would they know what to do with them if someone else did; they just don't have the skill and knowledge of the game to actually capitalise on the information they have access to.
But even if you disagree with that sentiment, the bigger flaw with your message here is that these are the callouts of a team player. This is something I think a lot of people who talk about how miserable solo queue is somewhat miss- the biggest advantage of a SWF from a pure strength perspective, not a balance one, is that you know at least some of your teammates are trustworthy and will want to play cooperatively with you. Playing with people who actually want to function as a team does not make you better as a player (at least in one match, it does give you a better avenue to practice), and that's very, very, very important to remember.
It's important to remember that "solo queue is miserable" and "SWF is a balance problem" are two completely different statements with completely different causes. Comms do not make a difference in gen efficiency and rescues; teamwork does. Solo queue players need access to the same information as a SWF (or at least as close to it as possible), but that won't magically make their teammates want to play cooperatively. Solo queue will always be weaker for that reason, not because of comms.
Did you know DC penalty can exists?
Just a few thoughts.
As problematic as SWF is, it won't be removed.
Even potato solo survivors playing together in SWF without comms will result in a synergy effect, because they know each other's perk, they know each other's playstyles, they know if they will be rescued or not etc.
Personally I'm against comms and aura-reading for solo survivors as a mean to buff solo. The HUD improvement sounds like a much more natural idea. The HUD already shows us important information, like who is injured, downed, hooked, etc, there's no need to reinvent the wheel. And HUD is passive, you don't have to hit any button to share this information. Some people will just refuse to use comms for whatever reason (no mic, they don't speak English, they just refuse to talk, they are too busy in a chase to talk), so HUD improvements will allow everyone to profit from it, unlike comms. We don't want to create even more "balance gaps".
And those who say that solo buffs will inevitably buff SWF too, it is true to some extend, but the trick is that solo will profit more from it than SWF and that's why it's called "bridging the gap between solo and SWF" and not "making solo on par with SWF". Yes, it would mean Killers will have to be buffed after that and I think all solo players are fine with that, we just want more fair games, we don't want easy wins.
You're playing semantics for the sake of making a point when you still agreed with me in your own words. You said yourself that playing in a SWF w/ comms allows players to be better coordinated and more effective, how does that NOT make them better players?
Exactly like I said, players don't go from bot to Ayrun from one match to the next just because they go from Solo to SWF but you 100% become better when you're in a SWF w/ comms regardless of if you utilize the full list of advantages you're given. You don't need 10,000 hours, god-looping abilities, exceptional teamwork to simply say "Ghostface is on me by the Shack" or "I'm nearby getting the hook, you can stay on your gens". Just because theres a pool of casual players that don't listen or can't adapt in a SWF scenario doesn't discount the vast majority that do become better in a SWF. Do you think the thousands of players out there that post daily in Console LFG/DBD FB/DBD Discord thirsty for a SWF w/ comms are ONLY doing it so they can socialize or talk to friends? They're also doing it because they know that SWF w/ comms makes the game much easier and players in general perform better when they have that platform
You're trying to isolate the 1 lesser-skilled player and making it seem like having 3 cooperating/communicating players on the same team makes 0 difference to that 1 player on an individual level. Even if they don't know all the map layouts, all the mindgames and all the right plays they are still inherently better because of using comms and being able to absorb everything from their teammates. You get this by default in SWF w/ comms even when the team has bad chemistry or 1-2 selfish players so that's not true that teamwork is THE factor. Why do you think the majority of Solo players are hesitant to cooperate in the first place??? Its because they don't have the basekit information and communication that you have when you're all in a Discord call. Good solo lobbies regularly throw matches when they have all the momentum in their favor because of simple stuff like 2 people going to make a save instead of 1 committing to the nearly finished generator. Comms singlehandedly changes that entire scenario and it leads to an easy escape for the hooked player and the two that wind up dying as well trying to make the play
I'm not sayings its impossible to ever play a decent level without comms and just doing an in-game SWF/SoloQ but I don't think anybody can tell me with a straight face that those same players wouldn't have their current skill level and their max potential heightened by simply using comms. There's thousands of good solo lobbies and SWFs in the past and ahead in the future that lost/will lose for the pettiest reasons even when they have great teamwork and no issues cooperating so why is that? There's also thousands of SWF matches where 1 boosted/less-experienced player will escape consistently and make certain plays that they don't make when they play alone so why is that?? Its because they're still missing the ability to use comms or because they DO have comms. It seems like you truly believe that SWF as we know it would still be looked at the same way and performing consistently at the same levels even if they never used comms