Why do killers hate bt, ub, and ds so much
Every time I see a post about a surv complaining about a killer perk like noed, I always see killers bring up the same four perks as a counter response. Ds, bt, unbreakable, and dh. Now I definitely see how dead hard is a fair comparison or at least understand their pov because it does deny fair hits most of the time and overall I can see why they argue that if noed is unfair so is dh.
I, however, cannot get how bt, ds, and ub are in the same realm??? They’re always brought up when killers discuss unfair perks as counter points but I genuinely don’t understand how these are unfair. They always call them second chancey and a back up for bad plays, but the perks are made to counter otherwise highly difficult situations to escape from.
They’re in the game to make a certain game play style more fair for the other side bc other wise being tunneled and camped would have no legitimate counters, and this is even more true for solo que. It would be nearly impossible to get saves and escapes semi regularly if they weren’t in the game.
And all of these perks can be played around as long as your play style isn’t hard tunnelling and camping. And even then a good bit of the time they don’t help much depending on the killer. Ds? Only used once with a short timer and if you go for the unhooker you don’t face any consequence. Same for bt. Go for the unhooker and you’re fine? Also, on highly mobile killers these counter perks do not do very much to help and only become majorly viable in endgame. Plenty of blights and spirits have still mowed me down a few seconds after a ds stun before I could get to a gate, and fast killers like that can tank a bt hit and down you right after with little recovery time. On slower killers who can’t shoot projectiles I can understand the annoyance at end game more, but it still isn’t very difficult to avoid those perks if you don’t aggressively tunnel and camp. I’m not saying those strats aren’t fair or are toxic, but I am saying they only should be allowed because counter play exists against those strats within these perks.
Same for unbreakable. It doesn’t stop you from slugging, it only stops you from slugging for an immense amount of time before you face consequence. What reason would one have to slug for approx 25+ seconds when objective is to get hook sacrifices? That’s plenty of time to chase someone away in case of a pallet or flashlight save. It stops killers from bleeding out lobbies or preventing the other side from having no counter play for killers refusing to hook and denying saves.
If all of these perks were gone, what would you recommend to do to escape a face camping/hard tunnel situation? Or even have a CHANCE to escape? Letting the others gen rush while someone takes the L and dies because there’s no chance of a save isn’t fair at all.
Yes it’s true they can be abused, but a lot of perks can be abused. Star struck on nurse with infectious can easily give a good player a three man down because of her speed if she felt like it. Make your choice on a hag makes camping so rewardable especially with the add on that allows her to chose where to teleport without having to have traps triggered. Depending on the player and the build and the map many perks can be abused.
My point is these perks are always called unfair for killers during any discourse about broken or cheap perks when they have counter play and, depending on the killer, hardly work.
I genuinely don’t understand why these are always brought up as stupid and unfair and on par with cheap perks like noed and dead hard. They aren’t there to reward mess ups and bad plays. There are hook states in the game for a reason, survivors aren’t expected to never get hooked. So why should getting downed once automatically mean they shouldn’t have a way to avoid getting targeted immediately after a save? Why shouldn’t teammates have a way to ensure someone getting saved can last at least 10 seconds afterward?
I hear stories about bt saves with ds in the killers face to be annoying and all of that, but I rarely see this in my games? Survivors usually don’t do that unless the killer is actively camping, because our whole objective is to survive and willingly getting those saves just risks dying.
Plus you don’t get any points for unsafe rescues? There’s no real motive to do this besides being toxic, but that doesn’t tend to end well on our part anyway and because of that I don’t see any of that “oh well they unhooked in my face before I could even leave the area so I downed them” nonsense. I’m sure it happens and plenty of lower rank players have probably done it out of lack of experience, but in my mmr it doesn’t happen commonly at all.
The only answer I could think of is that the people who hate these perks are people who solely play with a camp and tunnel style. But I don’t wanna assume all killers who say that only do so bc of that play style, because it seems unlikely and that’s a narrow minded view to have. Surely there’s more reasons. So if any killers who don’t tend to play like that have an answer for why they hate these perks anyway I’d be happy to try and understand. Sincerely.
Comments
"Dead Hard" is even stronger than NOED, cuz u have no counterplay against "shift + e" in most cases. Nevertheless I wouldn't care if they remove "Dead Fart" and "NOED" together.
Back to your topic:
Im fine with those perks, cuz i rarely camp or tunnel people. The only exception is people with DS who force me to tunnel them by bodyblocking me with BT and then jumping into a locker only to then stun me with DS. I tunnel these people on principle.
I rarely tunnel, and I don't camp either.
What I'm trying to say is, as survivors you don't have to take BT or DS in a match, but killers like me will always assume you have these perks. So killers will be forced to give up so many chances they deserve.
Here the situation gets very weird: a perk exists, but it doesn't exist.
If survivor don't want to be tunneled, bring the perk.
But what actually happens now is, survivors don't have to bring these perks but they still have that effects.
So I proposed that these perks should be visually recognizable.
All of these perks reward bad play, bt allows you to turn a mistake (farming) into an advantage (bt body block), ds allows you to waste the killer's time if you feel like it, and don't say it wastes your own time too because, even though it technically does, the killer's time is 4 times as valuable as yours. UB once again gives you a reward instead of a punishment for getting downed, don't say it stops slugging, yes obv it does but you can also pick yourself up if people are trying to pallet save etc, last time i checked thats not slugging.
All of these perks basically allow you to not only make mistakes for free, but turn your mistakes into rewards, kinda like noed huh
BT is only annoying when a survivor body blocks with it and you literally can't get around them. Then they complain about being tunneled or just have DS.
I think those perks are fine otherwise. I wouldn't mind a version of BT being basekit if survivors would just lose colission. They could still get a speed boost from the hit and have to mend, but they'd lose colission so they can't bodyblock.
If a survivor has DS in endgame, it's also fair. Free escape? Sure. But going after them off hook is a free down. Seems fair to make the killer think about choosing another target. Especially when they lack incentive otherwise.
Unbreakable is also fine imo. Adds risk to slugging.
More annoying than any of these is prove thyself and lucky break. But pts is harder to notice and lb is rarely used.
When you face whole teams running 3 or 4 of those perks in loadouts constantly, then you'll know.
And you should assume, you wanna know why? Because even though you yourself don’t tunnel and camp, it is other players’ daily playstyles.
Survivors have no other option than to treat Camping and Tunneling as if they are present every match. That isn’t the survivors nor the killers, it’s because BHVR can’t properly balance a playstyle that by design forces survivors to bring anything that half way counters it.
The fact that you don’t know whether someone has a perk or not, is the only saving grace survivors have. Because if they did I can guarantee many more would opt to play this way.
I have to disagree, idk why survivor's think all killer's wanna do is tunnel the whole match.Wanna know why I disagree?
The perks alone, by themselves are fine.
BT: No issues
UB: No issues
DS: No issues now that perk is truely risk/reward
The synergy between them is what makes them hated because it's too many chances!
Kate rescues Dwight, Dwight takes a hit with BT. Killer chases Dwight to slug him for some pressure. Dwight gets downed, but the killer can hear Kate's grunts of pain, and chases Kate who's waiting to get a flasahlight save. Kate goes down and gets hooked. Dwight who instigated the whole situation while slugged use UB, killer chases Dwight into a locker because Dwight still has an active DS.
The perk alone are fine, but the synergy between them gives too many second chances for one scenario.
If you have to ask why killer hates bt, ds, ub. That tells me you don't play enough killer.
Wouldn't you have avoided all that time with Dwight by just going after Kate instead?
To get to use killer meta,you need to search,chase,hit,down,hook,kill etc... (PGTW,SHPR,SHF,STBFL,BBQ,etc..)
While the survivor meta you don't need to do anything,you just press E (dead hard) or just hold m1 (unbreakable),the only one i can think of being the exception is COH
Now,about BT,killers just hate that you can just use it offensively and bobyblock the killer,and them you are forced to hit them (and give them a free speed boost)
TLDR needed, not reading that.
i'm fine with BT and DS (except some awkward situations).
On the other hand, i hate Unbreakable for multiple reasons:
Blows my mind that killers are STILL complaining about DS. It's been nerfed into uselessness. I stopped running it entirely.
If they want less people running BT and Unbreakable, stop camping and tunneling in every game. I've never run unbreakable in the four years I've been playing this game, but I'm getting slugged 2-3 times in half of my games at this point. Entitled survivors, actually wanting to play the game.
I don't care that killers don't like DH. I don't like Pop, so should it be removed? I hate Corrupt - killers get to start playing but most survivors can't even find a gen before the killer has a down, so I guess it should be removed.
Why do you see going into a locker with DS as an insult? I see it as a killer who chooses to tunnel is also going to choose to waste even more time then. Have you considered just not tunneling? Or should there be no possible counter to what a killer does?
I don't tunnel, i like to go for the rescuer while also going in direction of the unhooked person to scare them off of gens in case they are on a safe loop, and if they are in a bad position - then get a free down for extra pressure on the ground without picking up. I see it as an insult because it looks like taunting, to me - even more than tea-bagging. This way i also am on a look out in case they heal themselves or touch a gen - this way i can punish them for letting me know they don't have ds.
On average in the game i do my best to evade tunneling and get maximum amount of hooks.
they do more than that... they reward BAD gameplay from the survivors... how many times i was ds'ed cause i finished a chase with someone, hook him, go for another one, and right after seeing the previous survivor going for the save (already healed by someone else) and getting d striked for doing fast downs... or bt, who most of the people use for bodyblock instead of a free pass to go away from the killer... the idea behind those perks isn't bad, but as always people tend to abuse it... ds is too weak for people who play casually this game, but for regular players who know well the maps, items, addons, etc etc it's more than sufficient (and usually this will lead us in the endgame, where people use it as a free escape)...
its because campers and tunnelers wont be able to instantly kill the same person so they cry because the survivors play like good people and vice versa
killers complain about bt ds and ub but u will never notice those perks it if u dont camp and tunnel
and survivors complain about tunnel and camp but then they use deadhard giving them a second life in an otherwise unsurvivable situation like a huntress hatchet in a straight hallway after throwing a god pallet
Player killer and see for yourself .....
There is nothing wrong with it, some killer's are just really entitled. I've seen a bunch of comments about how it makes survivors invincible. Maybe you just shouldn't slug and tunnel? Just play the game fair, and no survivors will ever run them. But they have to play in an extremely sweaty playstyle, and then complain when survivors use the only tools they have to counter them. Original DS, sure that was unfair, because killer's were punished for no reason. DS 2.0. Honestly it was fine, but some survivors used it with unbreakable to work on gens in front of the killer, so I can understand the nerf. But any killer complaining about current DS, you want to play using a miserable playstyle, and then complain when survivors use one of the only tools they have to counter it.
"Dwight takes a hit with bt" aka the killer gets bodyblocked by the Dwight and CAN'T go for the Kate.
Meanwhile Kate made distance and is only found after Dwight got slugged in the scenario because she came back for the flashlight save.
Except Dwight would have haste after getting hit and is capable of making much more distance then Kate. Kate also does not have DS active so it's generally a better target. Chasing Dwight after getting haste, has DS and potentially UB looks like said killer if going after him out of spite.
DS, UB and BT are used a lot so it makes much more sense to play around the three incredibly common perks. DH is also super popular so that could also be an issue since Dwight is injured, causing your chase to increase even longer.
So you end up spending more time trying to punish a character that just got off hook then one that didn't.
If eating through DS, UB and BT to get a survivor on their second or death hook state is the best viable option then something is very wrong.
Its real simple really....All those perk counter in someway the killers ability to create pressure. Thats it!
They're some of the most impactful perks in the game lmao