Does Decisive Strike REALLY need a very hard skill check?
I just introduced the game to a friend the other day, and we’ve played about 10 matches, all of which my friend was tunneled out of the game every single time. And I don’t mean the kind of strategic tunneling. I mean the kind of tunneling where we have 5 gens left, the killer face camps the hook and completely ignores everyone else. I brought Borrowed Time, I tried body blocking, and by the 9th match, I even tried the annoying “clickly clicky look at me” flashlight strat, and nothing worked. (Mind you, we went against 2 Leatherfaces, a Hillbilly, 3 Sadakos, a Myers, 2 Wraiths and an Artist, all of which are a bit difficult to effectively body block with 1 teammate)
After the 4th match, I got him Laurie for DS, but he can’t hit the skill check to save his life. Hell, I have 2,000 hours in the game and I still miss the skill check a decent amount. Why do we have such a small skill check when DS is literally the only (self) anti tunnel perk? Shouldn’t it be a little easier to pull off, especially for newer players getting tunneled? Why not make the skill check success zone bigger like with madness skill checks or struggle skill checks? And the condition of deactivating if you miss it? That seems a bit unnecessary. The perk just feels purposefully designed to negatively affect newer players who get tunneled a lot. They find the one perk to help, only to have it waste a perk slot because they can’t pull it off.
Anyways, what’s all of your opinions on the DS skill check? And again, my suggestion is NOT to remove the skill check, just make it bigger to accommodate newer players / people who struggle hitting skill checks, and also to remove the condition that the perk deactivates if you miss it.
Comments
Removing Skill Checks on DS will only promote more players not to learn how to do skill checks and then pave the way for more complaints saying x skill check is not needed. Soon we won't have skill checks at all and everything will be hand holding for survivors.
Then players will complain on Killer perks with Skill check saying it's too oppressive because they don't know how to do the skill checks. New players will have to learn how to do the checks like everyone else, and same goes for killer perks that are hand holding too.
By that logic for you to hook a survivor you should get a skillcheck as well, since you're literally preventing the survivor from progressing his sole objective of surviving.
Regardless of how some killers think the game is very hard and unfair, the survivors shouldn't just give them free 4ks all the time so their entitled little ego doesn't feel like coming on the forums and being bias and regurgitating their victim mentality everyday in multiple duplicated threads.
I don't really think that an easier skill check is usefull since being able to hit it means you worked for it. Because it is your fault if you fail it and that perk is very strong, the amont of time lost by the killer is like exchanging a perk slot for the time to do at minima 1 more gen since all the survivor on the map are possibly woking on gens.
But i think they should actually balance it that way:
buff:
-delete the timer.
-make it multiple use(after each hook, it makes it useable twice...)
nerf :
-make all the objectives or tasks disable it apart for vaulting and getting healed (or mend but that would be normal since you are forced to)
-If there is an other survivor hooked this perk desactivates.
And then i will not tunnel someone at the fist hook out of fear of wasting my timethen you have a perk that disable tunnel completely since for each hook you have DS and if the killer hooks someone besides you it isn't tunneling...And can you really slug with the actual meta ?
I look forward for your comments.
And Im sorry to say it for the survivor mains but the problem in DBD is not the meta or the strategic choices. It's dead hard and the lack of variety in each game since there shouldn't be an unlimited third life for every one in every game and this perks conter absolutely everything and that is the problem. And don't ask why a killer tunnel because you already understand everything about it ... And yes I hate this perk that makes me lose most of my lost matches.
According to who? You? When did the devs say what you're claiming DS to be. Like they would ever say "it's for good players to punish tunnelling". Lol. Get real.
DS is used for being able to make the killer lose time on tunneling but is not forcely intended... and that is why DS should be rebalanced like the 80 perks that are too weak, too strong or too useless they sould, but since BHVR doesn't seem to care about their game ...
Anyway, the skill check can just be made easier without consequence.
BHVR didn't make it explicit and around 80 perks need to be rebalanced but since they like more to make skins ...
To respond to the post ... yes I think so:
-Just to practice.
-For making you proud of yourself for hitting it.
-For making it deserved for killers.
-You think it's easy to stab a killer ?
-For the devs to feel like the perk is more balanced.
-And for the stress of not hitting it that makes me love the game ...
Oh, you wouldn’t be mad if they removed DS?! You and a great deal of the killer base I’m sure! I’d never have guessed based on some of your other comments/posts I’ve seen! 🙄
The problem isn’t difficult skills checks in general, but specifically in the instance of DS. As others have said in their contributions to this thread, it’s a relic of past iterations of the perk that never got removed. When DS didn’t even require being hooked! That is no longer the perk function we have today, on top of serious console performance issues that can cause the skill check to be missed. There is no skill involved in that, is there? I’ve also seen recent reports of players hitting the skill check, yet the perk not activating. Is that a skill issue to you too?
The killer 100% deserves the stun with current version of DS (perhaps outside of end game only, which I would trade for two-time use before the final gen pop). You have to be utterly biased to think otherwise.
Demand decent optimization, not bandage changes to perks to deal with sub-30 fps. And no, DS is not solely an anti-tunneling perk, it isn't presented as one by devs nor is it used that way. It is used offensively (body block a doorway with DS etc) as well for instance.
No one is forcing you to pick up a downed survivor you suspect may have DS. Are you confusing it with Borrowed Time body blocking? Huge difference if so.
Just hit the damned skill check its not that hard lmao.
The Killer has to meet his goal as efficiently as possible. And sadly with the current meta, some killers can only keep up if they tunnel the weak link out of the game. That's the environment they provided and developed.
You're just mad because you suck at skill checks. You want your stun, hit the damn skill check. You don't have an argument here.
It's an easy strategic choice if you have DS, and especially if you have Unbreakable as well. In that case, it's a loss for the killer no matter what.
If they just keep going for the other person, at the very least you bought them time and distance with the hit, and you just pick yourself up
If they pick up, you DS them
If it was really meant to be an anti-tunneling perk and nothing else, it would deactivate when somebody else gets hooked, since in that case the killer is obviously not tunneling
Keep those assumptions going, pal. I’m a veteran PC player with no skill check issues, who doesn’t even use DS anymore post-nerf. But you go on continuing thinking that every change I ask for on these forums is for me, me, me! And if you choose to hardcore tunnel someone out of the match, I don’t wanna hear crap about gen speeds or one five second stun!
Ah, so now you mention Unbreakable! Well, in that case a survivor is dedicating half their build to a specific strategy - in which, again, you as the killer do not need to go after them or pick them up within 60 seconds. If you leave them slugged, you’ve still created pressure by removing their ability to do anything but crawl or recover. And if that’s how they want to use their one-time Unbreakable, so be it.
And no, it doesn’t need to deactivate when hooking another survivor. Killer gets a down on survivor A and slugs them; quickly downs the recently unhooked survivor B near the hook through hardcore camping and/or tunneling; goes back and hooks survivor A, then comes to hook survivor B. You have enough DS deactivation conditions within the one minute ultimatum. Deal with it.
It's an easy strategic choice if you have DS
Is it, though? I mean, in the situation you describe, you've not contributed to your team -at all- since you were pulled off the hook, and now you're going to spend a lot of extra time and a one-time use perk to buy another survivor a bit of time and distance.
That doesn't look like a good trade to me, at least from a survivor's perspective. It's great for the killer when someone tries this, because it means that he's got half the survivors unable to progress the game, at minimum.
If it was really meant to be an anti-tunneling perk and nothing else, it would deactivate when somebody else gets hooked, since in that case the killer is obviously not tunneling
How would this change the 'offensive use'?
'You won't get it', he says, after calling DS 'risk-free', despite initially responding to a post that outlined how conditional DS is and how unlikely it is to fire unless the killer is making a string of mistakes.
The usual crybaby killers of this forum, in this thread be like NOOOOOOO you can't just make DS skillchecks bigger or remove them entirely this will make the game LITERALLY unplayable for us 😭😭😭😭😭
The risk of DS in this game is gambling to take it or not. Take it and you may never even need or get to use it, leaving you with essentially three perks the whole match; don’t bring it, and most likely have a great time getting hardcore tunneled out of the match with no consequence to the killer. If that’s what we can even call a five second stun for tunneling.
i dont run it cause on controller i always mis the skillcheck, and besides that....a perk like that shouldn't even be needed, i dont get it why you have to tunnel at low level plays....when in solo a rescue takes place, it means that 1 or 2 other players are not on gens and are unhooking and heeling the other player.....i thought genrush was a big problem...doesn't ad up again
I agree, I don’t see the point in the skill check either. Theres so many mechanics in this game that seems to serve very little purpose but annoy you.
“Requires skill”... and being picked up within 60 seconds of an unhook while doing absolutely nothing else.
This game let people with powerless lives feel powerful in a video game. What do you expect?
Imagine being so entitled that you think 'I don't want Survivors to have a free, no-fail escape' means 'I want easy 4Ks'.
But that's the kind of game the developers have made; if entitled Survivor mains like you don't get your way; you promptly scream that Killers are demanding 'easy 4Ks' and stomp your feet while screaming that everyone but you is wrong and entitled.
And crybaby Survivors promptly demand OP changes, then demonize Killers who point out how flawed the idea is. Y'all are spoiled and scream when you don't get your way.
Those are still risks. They're extremely diminutive risks, but they are still risks.
But what you're consistently missing is that it takes more than just being hooked (Which also immediately invalidates the 'it's free!' argument. A hookstate isn't 'free'). You run the risk of coming up against a killer who isn't a complete idiot and doesn't just bullrush you off-hook and then immediately picks you up. DS is extremely unlikely to ever fire because it requires the killer to be really bad at the game.
DS is a trash-tier perk, it's just that if you don't have it, it can set up an immediate loss.
New players often waste their Dead Hards, so obviously auto-DH hacks should be made base kit so they can enjoy their easy 'outplays' without even having to press E
Being hooked is not a condition you met it's a consequence of poor play.
It is still a condition, but more than that, it's a COST. You have to have lost a hookstate in order to use DS. DS is not 'free' like you and Angy like to cry out. It's got the steepest price a survivor can pay.
You are not a victim because you weren't given an easy rescue. You failed to play safely and were downed. You have no entitlement to a save and if you do get one you have to accept it however it comes. Safe or unsafe.
You can tell that to all the killers that are rightfully upset with the game not allowing them to go for a 12-hook strategy, because that is the fault of exactly this attitude.
DS offers you a potential out from a quick rehook and is not meant to be a protection from a second or third hook, or a get out of jail free card at the end game.
So it protects from a quick rehook and is not meant to protect against rehooking. So basically, in your vision, DS should do literally nothing. Even if the killer opts to chase down a survivor that was just pulled off the hook, even if they actively decide to pick them up within 60 seconds of being hooked, even if the killer does everything in their power to make one of the most conditional perks in the game proc, it's somehow still not the killer's fault.
God these forums are a mess.
These forums are still the only place where I can see someone demand a hand holding change meant to make it easier for one side, and then people claim the side making measured arguments as to why it's a bad idea are the ones called 'entitled' for wanting to keep it as it already is. 🤦♂️
The bottom line is that removing DS's skillcheck, or making it easier, is a direct nerf to Killers. Less people will miss it (and people do miss it) which directly reduces that number of hooks, which reduces kills, which reduces pressure, which increases losses.
DS does not need to be made easier for everyone. Do you go into an FPS and ask for aimbots 'for the new players, because they will miss more than the veterans'? No; you play until you can make those shots/hit those skillchecks. You play until your skills improve.
You don't ask for the game to be changed and made easier for everyone on one side while screaming that the other side is entitled for disagreeing.
First you were talking about condition, now you're back to talking about risk, when in reality the discussion was about cost. You're flipping through different arguments so fast, I can't keep up.
Bottom line: No one has any actual founded objection to the skill check on DS being made easy.
Bottom line: No one has any actual founded objection to the skill check on DS being made easy.
Ah yes; the old 'If I ignore the valid arguments, I can say no one has made valid arguments'. 🤦♂️
Yes, they have. It's nothing but a transparent attempt to make DS a get out of hooks free perk. It does nothing except handhold Survivors while making the game that much harder for Killers.
There is 0 valid reason to do it, other than 'Survivors want it'. People who can't hit skillchecks learn to get better by hitting them. You don't remove it for everyone 'for the newbies'. Which, by the way, is a laughable excuse. This is not 'for the newbies'; that is a smoke screen for just wanting an 'I win' escape clause with 0 input by Survivors.
New players need to git gud and learn to hit skillchecks. There has been 0 valid arguments for this change. See how it works in reverse?
I am a killer main and I agree it should just happen and not require the skill check *unless it is during EGC :)
Would you believe me if I told you back in August 2019, they made the Decisive Strike skill check slightly bigger “to make it considerably more accessible to those who occasionally struggle with hitting skill checks”? They’ve already done this kind of thing before. Here’s a link: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/48381/design-decisive-strike
I respect your opinion that people need to “git gud”, but unfortunately, BHVR’s track record doesn’t support your design philosophy as much as you may think. They’ve already said they want to make the game more accessible for newer players and older players alike, and in my (and many other’s opinions) making a skill check slightly larger isn’t going to break the game because there are multiple ways to ignore Decisive Strike completely. It will help people who struggle to hit them, people who play on console/low end devices who occasionally get lag drops (especially the Nintendo Switch).
Ah yes; the old 'If I ignore the valid arguments, I can say no one has made valid arguments'
Thanks, mr. 'DS is free because a perk slot isn't a real cost, though I will just quietly ignore the other cost points you mentioned'.
Seriously though, you and the other one arguing against this skill check being made easier are talking about a version of DS that hasn't been in the game for years. That's not relevant argumentation.
I always thought it would be cool if DS was a normal skill check to get off, but a really small great skill check gave you like 2 more seconds
Yes, you are. And you are doing it again.
There is an argument to support it, as has been mentioned multiple times in the thread already: It makes the perk more accessible to newcomers and it alleviates the impact performance issues have on the perk's functionality.
Meanwhile, the counterargument has amounted to little more than 'but that makes it easier!', which isn't an argument. You're proposing jank for jank's sake. At least Angy still manages to eke out an 'it's a killer nerf', which, while it is an -incredibly- feeble argument in this particular context, is still an argument.
Sorry to be that person, but saying removing or making the DS skill check easier will cause all skill checks to be removed from the game is a slippery slope.
You are denying the killer a hook so the difficult check is there for that reason. Not hard to hit.
Sucking at the game and/or being a newcomer is not an argument it's emotive.
So is the rest of game design.
When I go into a match with the name "DSPractice" I expect all you guys to actually let me practice the damn skill check since that is what so many are saying I need to do. I'll stand under the hook and just wait to be hooked repeatedly so I can practice. Sucks I can only practice once per match at most, but thankfully as a survivor I can die quickly and move on to the next practice match.
Anyone else need to practice? We could create a 4-man group, and all 4 of us will go up to a hook and just point at it. That would actually be awesome. Just know that I don't have comms.
Honestly, I don't know how practicing will suddenly stop the game from freezing up whenever anything happens, but according to half this thread apparently console performance problems are a "skill issue," so I can only assume that if I practice enough on the Switch then the game will stop freezing and dropping frames. Hey, will practice making the performance issues better as survivor transfer over to killer, too? Killer is literally unplayable on Switch. I can get to iri 1 in a week as killer on PS4 but I can't get out of ash in a month on Switch.
The skill check should be made easier, the perk is already limited, easily circumvented and not that effective at dealing with tunneling in the first place.
1 - You act like you cannot practice hitting greats on gens for some reason, very weird argument.
2- Then you change the conversation to game optimization (which sucks balls, yes) but has nothing to do with DS mechanic. If your game is freezing and stuttering as much as you say, having a "free ds" won't help much anyway.
The thing about practicing was mostly sarcasm, because people keep saying it's a skill issue. (Well, I would have fun going into matches as a 4-man and then we all demand to be hooked for matches that last about 10 seconds each time, but that's because I have a weird sense of humor.) But see, the thing is, on console it's a combination of input latency and fps, made more difficult by the random frame drops. There's no amount of skill that will help when the Switch is running at an inconsistent 15 fps. Input latency is tied to fps, and the fps is inconsistent, so there's nothing the player can do, each time they get the DS skill check the timing isn't the same.
A larger skill check at least would help. Right now, there's about one, maybe two frames during which that skill check can be hit, and that's an issue when the framerate isn't consistent and there's input latency. BHVR ported the game to console without actually making sure all the elements transferred over properly.
Yeah, of course you wouldn't. Because it isnt like the fact that gens pop too ######### fast necessitates the same build and meta on every killer to slow down the game enough for them to produce an impact. Its not like the game is heavily reliant on snowballing. It's not like fast gen speeds and braindead survivor tactics (Holding W, throwing every pallet and just running from end to end) produce incentives to take out the weak links from the game so that you have a chance to get more than a 1k by the end of the match.
All these issues feed into each other. The fact that gen speed, bad map design, and bad survivor spawns happen, produces incentives to cripple the survivors as quickly as possible to prolong the match. And to do that, you HAVE to tunnel. MMR is also designed around this fact.
As a veteran PC player you should already know this, and know that your mentality is a part of a problem that literally fixes nothing. Making DS instant fixes nothing.
It has a hard skillcheck because devs make game design decisions completely arbitrarily. I would consider myself fairly killer biased but I see no reason why DS needs a skillcheck. Makes near 0 difference at higher level play and only serves to punish and frustrate newer players that are probably already having enough trouble defending themselves.
But hey yeah guys keep punishing new players for no reason. It's super fun.