I Hope All Exhaustion Perks Get Nerfed Into the Ground
They are a problem. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I believe that almost all exhaustion perks are entirely too strong and beat out every other type of perk in the game besides Unbreakable in certain situations. They are destroying the game by creating an unshakeable meta dominated by chase-oriented perks. I'm tired of running them as survivor if I want to win and I'm tired of dealing with them as killer.
Tell me, why would I ever bring a perk that allowed me to see the auras of my teammates around me over an exhaustion perk. There is literally no reason to unless you just straight up don't care about winning. Why would I bring a perk that allows me to see the killer's aura when a generator is completed? Dead Hard is an option, that allows me to possibly extend the chase by minutes. So screw Dark Sight that's useless compared to Dead Hard. That is what I am thinking as I go to select perks.
What would I do? Nerf all speed increase exhaustion perks to 130% speed and put some sort of breathing penalty on exhausted survivors making them easier to track during a chase. This would make it so survivors don't just gain as much free distance just for existing, and there is a sort of trade-off. Gain free distance in a chase, but become an easier target. Of course, the speed increase will always be worth the stealth penalty, but at least there is now a better chance for the killer after the survivor gained free distance.
Dead Hard should slow you down at the end of the animation, but keep the I-frames. That way it can't be used as an "oopsie, made a mistake, let's just pretend that never happened :)" button. This would force survivors to use the perk as it is intended; a perk that allows you to juke the killer as they swing for you.
Anyways, rant over. What do you guys think? Are exhaustion perks a problem, yes or no?
Comments
okay but some of these maps pretty much play themselves with a bunch of high-end tiles in a chain and the game being mostly over in one chase, that tends to be the root issue behind people's issue with massive chase extenders
that and the killers that end chases very quickly or don't respect chasing/looping itself getting axed over and over
Even if I were to believe you (seeing as I have never had my games almost done in one chase) that isn’t an exhaustion perk problem, that sounds like a map problem.
Part of learning killer is understanding maps and tiles. If you know someone is running you for what seems like too long break chase.
You have to in order to pressure the rest of the survivors. I have seen so many killers chase one person, walk by a gen being worked on and not even bother to kick that gen/injure that survivor. It’s baffling.
Im not saying there aren’t strong loops but there is no loop that will cost you the game unless you never brake chase.
I'm a killer main. These perks are annoying, yes. But I don't blame them per se.
What bothers me is that the only negative aspect of being exhausted is that you can't use exhaustion perks. I think exhaustion should cost them more than that
Perhaps it could leave you needing to perform a recovery animation, like a hands on knees deep breaths thing. A bit like having to perform a mend action. But it doesn't make you take a health state, instead your exhaustion cooldown doesn't start until you've done it.
Perhaps they could leave you needing to perform a recovery animation, a hands on knees deep breaths thing. A bit like a mend action but instead of taking a health state, you're exhaustion cooldown wont start until it's done. Or even you have a % ineffeciency penalty to healing and gen repair action until exhaustion wears off.
Lol I know this is not at all the point you were trying to make but what's stopping you from running Dark Sense and an exhaustion perk o.O
Without items it was 56% so the average ended up being 70%.... which was the exact same percentage killer without perks was. If anything Otz showed it is items, not necessarily perks, that tip survivors over the edge. He also spent the back half of the video discussing how people dismiss the advantages us killers have in regards to winning & losing and how his stats reflect that \o/
I remember when exhaustion recovered while running. It wasn't pretty.
Just because perks were worse back then doesn't mean they're still not a problem though. If that were the case, DS would still activate upon the first pickup, and Hex: NOED would be on a timer and not a hex.
if i was up against that i'd've had zero chance at any point
but you don't need pre-nerf object to call out which floor the killer's on which is all that matters on midwich, you just need voip
but it's still probably good enough to be used there
I don't have any problems with exhaustion perks even when I play killer, I think your idea isn't bad but I don't really like the thing with dead hard, if the killer misses a swing he almost instantly can swing again so I think it's useless if you're slowed down after using dead hard, but that's just my opinion.
Dead hard is almost broken OP, the others are ok.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I would argue killers are the exact same way (mostly). This game has how many perks for each side? like over 100? I dont even know really, but it is a pretty chonky number, YET most killers and most survivors will use the same STRONG perks. I can not go ONE match without a killer running corrupt intervention/than/ruin...not all 3 usually, but almost always at least 2 of those. I will even admit I USE ruin/than as killer. It is a POWERFUL way to slow the game down. On the same token, dang near all survivors run ONE of the aforementioned exhaustion perks BECAUSE they give you a trump card in a chase. One of those is usually coupled with DS too XD. I guess I could live with nerfs to most exhaustion perks, if they nerf ways for killers to slow the game down. give and take...but idk HOW you would nerf like balanced landing or lithe without making them worthless...except maybe increasing exhaust time so its available less often.
The only problematic ones are sprint burst and dead hard
I have no problem at all with them, death hard well.. just wait it out and try o catch them off because it is easily done :) I play a lot of survivor just as much as killer :)
In my opinion exhaustion perks are okay, I dont have any problems with them.
Perhaps if you could use more than one exhaustion perk, you might have a point. But effectively with the cooldown, you don't get very much use out of more than one. I think that having one exhaustion perk, one information perk, one team assist perk, etc. is good. Perhaps the problem is that exhaustion perks are so good that you almost always want to bring one?
Exhaustion perks are all about skillful use once every 60 seconds. As such, they need to be impactful, and rely on player agency to use. In general, this is the case. How do you nerf a skill based perk with a long cooldown without making it useless? I just don't see it.
People keep saying Dead Hard is broken, yet I haven't seen anyone with any proof that it extends chases longer than any other exhaustion perk. If fact, I would say that chases are shorter, on average, with Dead Hard.
Completly disagree. Dead hard is probably the most used exaution perk from good team/players, and that only speak for it self. If you use sprint I can decide to commit or not in chase, very strong perk, but if not 99% it will not be used in chase, but before, very strong in certain situation. Lithe and balance are different sprint. Smash it and head on are good to make distance after the stuntman, so other sprint. However dead hard is unique and complete different from the other, cause not obly you can use to evade an hit and take more distance, like the other, but you can use it in chase, to correct loop mistakes and have a second chance even at very safe tiles, to negate blood Lust by dead hard to the pallet and drop it forcing the brake, and to correct positioning errors and use it for distance to make to the loop and even worse to chain loopss that you Cant normally chain. And also to bait hits and than heal a slug into their dead hard to, chain with unbreakable etc. Anibody nows it, and surv mains dont want to admit cause they want to abuse their wonderful toy until it get fixed. Really way better then other exaution, too versatile and only 60 sec exaution, too much good, another level.
You can say all of this, but again, where is the proof Dead Hard is out performing other exhaustion perks.
One example you said is Sprint Burst. You said you can break chase if you see someone Sprint Burst away. How is that not better than Dead Hard? You just entirely negated a chase with Sprint Burst. Now the Killer has to go and find another survivor to chase, which is a much larger waste of time than someone using a 1 second Dead Hard.
Lithe is another example. It can be used in the middle of a chase and gives you 3 extra seconds, plus the extra seconds it takes for the Killer to go around whatever obstacle you Lithed around. That's a lot of additional chase time.
Same for Balanced Landing. It can be used in the middle of a chase and gives you 3 extra seconds. It also makes 2 story structures a nightmare for Killers.
How is Dead Hard out-performing those perks, when it's only 1 second of extra chase time.
Basically, show me some data proving your point. Analogies are worthless.
You can say what yoi want, devs data will talk and we Will see. It Is clear that the most difficult team to face abuse it, nobody talks or complain about smash it, and after nerf nobody complain about balance landing, because now it's ok. Dead hard is a problema, because you lose time to commit with an injured survivor, tryng to have a down that can give you advantage, and make you lose precious time, cause you have ottenere to commit to an injured survivor. It can deny clean shots that requires skill, without skill by survivor. You have to respect, cause good or crazy survivor can use frame perfect, and you have always to respect the perk. Sprint perk are non other like the sprint you gave a survivor when you hit them, often "ok" (99% sprint maybe bust the perk), but you can left them and to other things, dead hard you say make you lose sale time and momentum, but during a chase is a different think then in neutral game, it is a potential third health state. Ok you can sprint to a loop, like with dead hard, but it is too versatile and decisive. I dont know, however one thing is sure, make bad map design worse, making loop , especially goid ones, even more safe.
The developers data has already spoken. The developers have been buffing survivors in the last couple of patches. There has not been a single survivor perk nerf since DS, they've all been buffs and there has been a lot of them. So obviously Dead Hard doesn't need a nerf according to the developers data. And you don't have data showing Dead Hard needs a nerf.
Hmm, maybe not even requiring an interaction, just requiring the Player to walk (or stand still for a faster recovery)
Could be something like an additional 2nd Exhaustion bar that's overlaid ontop of the Red Exhaustion bar, Walking/Standing still decreases it (Walking half as effective as Standing still), but will reset upon performing Interactions and Running/Rushed Actions.
(This would also prevent edge-cases where significant player skill/loadout disparity allows Players to get Exhaustion Perks back mid-"chase")
Could even introduce an "Exhausted breathing" effect that overrides Iron Will's Grunts of pain reduction.
Get gud
I completely disagree man, for me the game is too much survivor side, and that is what most people thinks and devs admit too that at high level is that. We Will see. Unbalance = boring match and killer mains will change game unistalling, make you wait 30 min forma game. Dead hard rework maybe can help, also make more variety in meta, exploring other exaustion perk that nobody uses, make the game more intresting. Like when everybody use only ruin or pop, and devs deduce to change things... Now with certain build bof of them are good, and their effects doesnt work togheter. If dead hard will Be used by anybody like old Ds, is only a meaning of time. And we Know devs change their mind very often.
The game is SWF sided, not survivor sided. Most survivors are solo or duo, which are weaker than killer.
Sure 4 man SWFs with lot of experience are stronger than Killers but there really isn't many of those compared to solo, duo players and inexperienced 3 and 4 man SWFs.
Basically you are talking about a whole different game that consists of Nurse, Blight and Spirit Killers going against very experienced 4 man SWFs.
This Time I agree, even if devs are tryng to balance, fix, and give counter to everything, competent Swf are better then solo, even if strong solo survivor can be really match changing. Top tier killers are in another planet then m1 killers. However map desing, excluding dead zones problem, is on survivor side, and especially some items need to be nerfed, to make in pair with other. From perk side they are making a good job buffing non meta, and I continue to think that the only meta perk they need to give an eye on is, like I said, dead hard, and prove Thyself. Busted killer add-on are also gone/rework for the most part, is almost all ok. I'm waiting for solo survivor buff and face camo nerf they announce, and a killer buff to conpensate, cause swf are too strong to face most times.
I hope this is a troll. Are you seriously saying exhaustion perks are broken? Unless you are an absolute dogshit killer, none of them will do them any good as most killers eventually catch up with the survivor and a lot of them have ranged attacks. Fix perks like DH before you go ahead and whine about a nerf.
Nah, the only one that has some issues is DH, and even those issues are depending on map design more than perk design.
Also, do you know what nerfing chase-oriented perks would lead to? Buffing generator oriented perks to compensate.
Besides, I dont rely on exhaustion perks to win. Exhaustion perks very rarely are the difference between winning and losing. I've had a few times where I was like "if I had X, we would have won", but that's not just exhaustion perks. There have been plenty of times where if I ran Buckle Up, we would have won. Yes, Buckle Up has been THE perk that would have made the difference between a win and a loss, since I would know who of my teammates were ready to be picked up.
Also, survivors do have a breathing "penalty", its not even limited to exhaustion, it's even applied if they start walking from sprint.
Exhaustion perks arent the problem, loop chainability is.
Yes completely nullify the 5 meter dash that works once a chase but for some reason killers leave me everytime I dead hard?
I see this post getting a lot of hate, I assume mostly from survivors that rely heavily on these exhaustion perks. I like the gist of the original post. Lose the 130% part, but losing some stealth for free exhaustion getaways would be a nice tradeoff and at least give the strongest perks for survivors a little bit of downside
"Tell me, why would I ever bring a perk that allowed me to see the auras of my teammates around me over an exhaustion perk."
You know there is room in your build to run an exhaustion perk AND an aura-reading perk?
I know, I know...mind blown.
I think Exhaustion perks in general are fine, just a few are busted like DH, SB, Adre (or Overcome). BL is very map dependent, Lithe takes you away from a safe tile (and is a little map dependent), Smash Hit depends on the Killer not respecting pallets and Head On is more for fun than anything else.
Adrenaline could be fixed by just removing the sprint boost if it heals you, or make it a heal over time.
Not if you need DS, BT and Unbreakable vs all these sluggers, campers and tunnelers.
I personally only use DS out of these (no exhaustion perk as well) and prefere information perks like Spine Chill and Kindred over "the E"
The Exhaustion perks are to survivors what the gen slowdown perks are to killers. You pretty much need them to extend chases enough for other survivors to do gens.
Do bones