Gen Rushing is an Excuse for Bad Killers.
Many times this week I have been told to "rush gens harder" or something of the sort every time my team escapes. Disregarding the fact that many of these killers had meta slowdown (Ruin + UD, Ruin + Pop, etc.) it always seems that the killer doesn't recognize their mistakes but blames the survivors for their loss. And to a degree, yes, survivors make the killer lose, but only when outplaying them consistently. I see a lot of people claim that "survivors are the power role in high play", and while survivors are very strong in that level, its not the whole picture. People seem to forget the fact that *good survivors should escape*. The reason these people aren't dying is because they're very experienced and know the game in and out. They know how to adapt and play based on the situation. Now, why do I bring this up? Because many killer mains will refer to this to discredit survivors. To say "you have it easier than I do, hence your opinion is invalid". And to that I have to say, you're not going against comp squads EVERY match. Sometimes you just lose and you have to accept that. And I know others will say "well what about this?" and list all the busted items survivors can bring. But also you're not going against that every game. Because if you were you probably wouldn't be complaining about gen rushing still.
Killers refuse to just say "gg you guys did good" and want to thrash survivors for just playing the game. Survivor mains do this too, and I've experienced both on an equal amount. But the thing about is that killers are in control for a majority of how the match plays out. You are the opposing force. The killer you choose and the way you play will change the flow of the match. Its when you let survivors have control that you start to lose. And before you even start, no survivors do not control the flow of the match. They can loop and juke all they want but really its how you use your killers power and how you play that dictates that flow. You're the one who can corner survivors. You're the one who can kill them, the one who can decide where they run to next. If you know that a survivor is going to go for a vault into the next loop, you want to cut them off from that. But just because you're trying to do something doesn't mean that survivors are going to just give it to you.
I think a lot of killers just expect survivors to roll over and die or run without a plan. And I also believe this is attributed to the skill curve of DBD. They get conditioned into going against lesser opponents to the point where when they meet a challenge they don't know what to do. So they get frustrated and blame the survivor. To remedy this they run the strongest perks they can for easier downs. But a lot of the time I don't see killers use their perks how they should. I've had killers with ruin walk right past me doing a gen to get a down and instead of going back to push me off they just hook instead. I've also had some who full commit to me then wonder why they lost only chasing one person. And their first response to this is "they're genrushing". They don't take accountability for the fact that *they let me do the gen*. They made no attempt to build pressure yet want to complain that they never had a chance to get pressure. Do you expect us to give you health states? To give you hooks? To just not do gens because it'd be nice for you?
I understand that in some scenarios that its hard to get pressure. Say you get a map that's too big or two survivors ran prove thyself. Something like that. Does it make it harder? Yes. Does it make it impossible? No. Why do you play a 4v1 game and expect to not be challenged by the other side?
Comments
how is it dumb? Is genrushing not doing gens fast?
"Survivor mains do this too, and I've experienced both on an equal amount. But the thing about is that killers are in control for a majority of how the match plays out."
This is where everyone realized you were full of it.
the only killers that you absolutely have to genrush are spirit/nurse/blight, and yet some of the players who main these three killers still complain about genrushing... hmm
sure mate sure, thats why i see at least 1 prove thsyelf per match.
Actually doc can if everyone at madness 3 on a certain map.
it's not "you're" if it shows a fallacy of your logic
Yes some killers will say you genrushed even if the match took 20 minutes, and also shouting at survivors for game design isn't really fair or productive.
But there are survivor (teams) who will try to smash out gens as fast as possible ignoring all else. And if a team decides to split up and smash gens while ignoring pretty much anything else it basically breaks the game, as in there's not really much that can be done except maybe mass slugging.
Fortunately most survivors also like doing other things, archive challenges, totems, item hunting, healing, working on gens with others for more points, going for saves, going to harass the killer, urban evading in the basement etc etc
The idea that "good survivors should escape" is the core of the problem. Why should a good survivor always escape a good killer? Why does killer need to be an entirely reactive role?
As killer, it should be expected to gens to pop quickly. 3 gens popping is normal within first few minutes of match. You chase 1 person while the other 3 do gens. Unless you insta-down survivor quickly you can't engage in 2nd chase.
You can run Corrupt which helps move survivors close to you, or they camp the blocked gens which they did nothing.
I also enjoy running Devour Hope and Undying with no Corrupt. I find Corrupt encourages totem searching. Or pair it with DH, UD and Haunted grounds to make them think twice about totems. 3 hooks and everybody will get off gens to do bones. If you down 2 people in the same area, then you could be setting up for Mori very quickly.
As a survivor, what does killer expect us to do while you decide to engage in a 5 minute chase? If I have a challenge (bones, chests) I'll do that, but eventually I'll have to do gens. There's literally nothing else to do. I could join the chase and block the injured survivor so now your 5 min chase has been extended for at least 20s while I run forward.
"Gen rush" is a killer main term.
The classic "I have nothing to say"
What is there to say? It was a redundant statement in the first place.
So you didn't even give what I said a chance and opted to try and disregard the post? I should be the one asking you if you're trolling instead.
there's exactly zero gen slowdown perks that are common or on free characters and considering map design, spawns, items and overall rng, gen rush is a thing
He spent way too long committing to Cheryl and didn't capitalize on Corrupt by searching gens. The whole point of Corrupt is to cut down your patrol route, yet he sticks to the Cheryl in the part of the map where she can't do anything. It's actually really hard to tell when the match starts because of how the video is cut. But it still supports my argument of killers not managing time well. CM chose a bad chase in a bad part of the map and the survivors were efficient by splitting on 3 gens. All of this was his fault for making bad choices, not the survivors.
Had he broken off from Cheryl that would have changed nothing if he had to find another person and they looped the killer in an area that still had pallets. And what happens when all survivors can loop as good as Cheryl? Cause not all matches have a weak link.
If he broke off from Cheryl it'd change a lot actually. Cheryl was next to none of his gens so her looping there was entirely safe. The gens were all in close proximity so chances are that one of the survivors would've ran into the gens that other survivors were on. This would open a window to get a few hits, and while that may not be super substantial in the moment it could potentially be crucial to snowballing later. If all survivors looped him well enough that he couldn't down them fast, he could still force pallets down and create dead zones. Further more if you are being outplayed by survivors where all of your chases last over a minute, then that team will likely escape and should escape. You were the one who couldn't keep up with them. I will say it a million times if I have to: good survivors SHOULD escape and not be punished for the killers hurt feelings.
of course he committed to cheryl, the chase started with an instant injure on a killer like that, it's just that the map baits you into thinking that surely there won't be another god loop around this corner as well
and speaking of the map, it's rancid abattoir you realize, there's hardly any 'bad part of the map' to be chasing someone in and the difference in swapping off cheryl to go perturb gens is cheryl gets on a gen and you're back to square one without a lucky insta-injure probably
that's also not in the slightest what corrupt is for but everything else you posted is so further far-removed that it's hardly even worth touching on
Camping and Tunneling are excuses used by bad survivors.
It is and it isn’t.
Sometimes RNG is not on your side and map set ups are against you. So no matter what, it will feel like they were “genrushing”.
Problem is that word has been thrown around on here like every time 3 gens pop means you are being genrushed, which is not true. Often times the player is just bad with that killer because they have no experience with them or simply are bad in chases. It then becomes much easier to blame gens being rushed rather than take fault for how poor they did.
Three simple questions that will shed light on most topics like these.
1. How many hours do you have in this game?
2. Do you play for both sides approximately equal number of hours?
3. Can you prove the answers to the first two questions?
Okay so if you see this from survivors too then why you write a wall of text about killers? I guess you just mention this so it wouldn't look like for another "boooo killers camp" thread. You rant about killers want free hooks and free hits. It is just the same, when survivors want free escapes, otherwise you wouldn't cry about camping. Most camping situations can handle, sometimes even against a Bubba. So i really totally not understand what is your point there. Killers shouldn't say that they did it 'couse the genrush? Yeah, they shouldn't. Actually they shouldn't tell anything why they did. Everybody plays how they want to play. If they want to camp, then the survivors should adapt to the situation. And if you try to say that genrush is not a problem in the game since a long time, then you should play a little more so you would see it. When you hook somebody after a kinda fast chase, and 3 gens popps then something clearly not ok with it right? And you have 2 more gens to do enough pressure for 11 more hookstate. Killers shouldn't say at all why they camped - but survivors shouldn't cry about at all either.
Seriously, this is total bullcrap.
The killer is faster sure - but not too much. It takes time, to reach a survivor, especially when they have (and usually they have) enough distance at the beginning of a chase. They can run loops tighter since their hitbox is smaller then the killers just to start it. Also vault way faster then the killer.
Their power is not really infinite. For example Myers have a hardcap. Or they have to reload, while they slow down, or even have to leave the loop for reload. Or take long time to set it up.
Bloodlust... Yeah. But get to tier 3 bloodlust is more then enough to repair a full gen. And if a killer reaches it, then you did something really badly in the chase, probably wasted paletts.
Finite paletts... Yeah. What can stun the killer, you blind him while he broke it, and you got distance again. And did you ever played on The Game map? Even with brutal strength would take an eternity to brake all the paletts.
And i would really like to see that statistic what you mention. I would bet, that low level gameplay is in there. But honestly, it is not really relevant.
Sure. Second chance perks are needed (well not totally, but lets assume it) even if the killer have 0 2nd chance perks. I think killers hate it 'cause survivors can bring too many. I seen too many times all 4 surviros with 4 crutch perks, with last second flashlight or keys
It's literally not possible to go fast or slow doing gens. Gens take a certain number of seconds to complete. The time doesn't change for a new player verses an experienced player. If you can't generate pressure, that's on you. It's not like the gens flew because they were master at repairing gens.
When each survivor spawn on different gen from start of the game, they weren't better, they were lucky.
If they used toolboxes and map offerings, they weren't better, they just used stronger options.
This has nothing to do with skill.
So is tunneling....
So everyone happy now?
this is literally what happens when survivors split up and you're pig on coldwind and you commit to one guy for a minute and a half
That isn't genrushing. That's called "Committing to a Stupid Long First Chase" And he still killed three of them!
You do know that prove thyself, toolboxes, stake out, and whatever yun jin's perk is all boost gen progress right?
i'm pretty sure with gen times like that they all pretty much spawned near non-corrupted gens, which is ordinarily the 'two gens pop' scenario but given it's abattoir even a chase you literally start with a free hit can take going on two minutes
i don't think either i or cmwinter described it as genrushing so much as the state of gens being broken in general in his case + deriding the op for what they had to say about killers feeling like gens so fast that it's hopeless, but yes they were pretty potato at not holding m1 and flubbed the lategame so horribly that they almost got completely trashed, imagine what chance a non-second job killer would have against better survivors on this map in a 'two chases = gates powered' scenario
I mean they're not wrong though.
name one LOL
Over 5 items and or perks devoted to taking out Ruin, DL goes the moment you kill the Obsession or they Quit. You shouldn't have to run UD to keep Ruin, UD shouldn't be a hex if it's used to KEEP A HEX yeah a hex to prevent a hex from being lost but that hex can be found first, oh did I mention maps and detective's hunch and did you meet small game? No? So all Meta and semi-meta slowdown perks are Obsolete, Trash that needs to be tweaked but it's because of a bad killer? Sure they make mistakes but how many mistakes can a survivor make with a safe guard? Quite a bit, 16 perks vs 4 said 4 of the killer's are not allowed to counter survivor's perks anymore such as IW and Stridor which was originally a counter to my knowledge. The simple fact that there isn't perk counter perk balance is the actual problem with the game. But you know 101 perks and a community only uses 4 as their meta, while the killer's has a Obsolete and Person/Situational condition to be met that can be taken from them for a mistake. Oh the survivor's job is so darn hard and dangerous, this is like a movie where the survivor's are actually the killer's and the killer is just trying to get the hell out from bouncing trolls with their junk out as they flop it about. Rofl.
The problem in DbD is that the 4 people are the power role and not the one that is alone. A good killer will always lose against survivors with the same skill level because the seurvivor role is a lot stronger and decide what happens. If the survivors want to pop gens fast, it will happen no matter how many pressure you put on them. The killer needs a buff to be able to compete with survivors on the same level. This game is based on horror movies and in this movies only few people survive. It should not be possible that all 4 escape and it should be really hard to kill all 4.
You can you know ignore the gens hide and move or locker hop until they can be done, hmm, did you say you had corrupt? Must have done so much.
Cmwinter is a pig main so I'm sure he would be able to recognize that 1 trap isn't worth 0 pressure. Cheryl was stuck with 3 gens blocked, so her getting on a gen wouldn't be too big of a deal since there'd be little time investment if he would've interrupted the others and gained pressure that way. Rancid is a small map too so its far easier to pressure than a normal map would be, so if you played around the pallets correctly then there shouldn't be a problem. None of the loops Cheryl went into were god loops and were all able to be played against. Literally anything other than chasing Cheryl would have been better. And if I'm wrong about Corrupt then how should you use it?
You realize the whole point of a hex is you're not suppose to keep it, right? They have powerful effects but can be removed. That's literally the entire system. It's a gamble. But I do agree with the IW and Stridor point. It was more done out of reaction for old Spirit I think. IW definitely should not keep noises mute because survivors can literally lose you behind walls solely because you don't have any clues to where they went. It makes being injured less of a debuff and just another health state before going down. Still though the way you go about saying this is very immature and victimizing. Painting killers are the only ones with bad perks while survivors are just sadistic towards them with their """op"""" perks.
"some" time
not everybody wants hag, plague or clown
i myself have those killers and but i didn't buy them for perks
my point still stands
You can also LOOK for survivors. And no, perks don't matter if you don't make use of them, so you're right there.
Then he shouldn't complain about not getting the perks he wants with this logic. Beggars can't be choosers, so no, your point doesn't stand.
breh these are exactly the type of survivors that hold m1 on a gen if you're not imminently about to attack them and they do that exact thing several times in the video, the killer can be in one place at a time and they're completely split on gens, there is no scenario here where you get a better result than a free hit and then having a bunch of extremely safe pallets dropped on you because there isn't a way to stop three people on gens while you chase or push off any singular survivor
you keep trying to make this point that it'd be better to go for completely uninjured people with fair warning you're coming as if you'd be more likely to get a down out of them than someone who's a 1-shot and it's just not going to hold water, three gens were going to pop either way no matter what he did there because that's just math but he got the down out of it and had something to work with instead of a few injures (i.e. one quick reset party) and nothing substantial
'corrupt is for patrolling gens' doesn't do anything vs survivors that will get back on it as soon as you turn around once they've found theirs it's for stalling early gen progression and by shrinking the gen progress zone getting into encounters far faster + turning a down into a majorly amplified proxycamp, and yeah it does very little on a tiny map with high-end tiles for days like abattoir where you can be denied a down for ages but what can you do
i'll admit i should've typed "default characters", not "free characters"
for relatively new players they aren't free anyways
Because that's exactly DBD community at its finest. In most cases as uncivilized as stereotypical LoL chat.
Except... the person you're quoting was talking about something different than 'killer trying to kill'.
So, wait... doing objectives, no no, let me start again - doing ONE AND ONLY objective a survivor has is now 'rushing' it? xD
But okay, I'd like to hear your answer, your solution to this - if a killer is NOT chasing me, what am I supposed to do? Politely wait? I can do one gen and then wait X minutes? I'm seriously asking, when does the 'rush' start and when doing gens is not 'rushing'? I thought that killer should patrol, attack survivors and defend the gens, but alright...
i would posit that in the low-end brackets sloppy butcher is the only gen slowdown perk (indirectly) because newish survivors are very skittish to do gens when injured and will stop to heal or look for someone, especially against killers like wraith
Yeah, they're greedy. You punish that greed. If they're holding M1 in front of your face then they aren't going to have enough time to get to pallets without DH. You're not suppose to be everywhere at once. You're suppose to dwindle the survivors resources, waste their time and snowball. That's how you beat good survivors.
I'm not saying you'll get a guaranteed down either. But pushing survivors off of their gens is way better than chasing in an area with no objectives. That "quick reset party" is what you want. You want them to waste time so you can make them lose time on gens. What's even better is if you interrupt it because now that time was mostly wasted. You're going to lose gens eventually as killer but your job is to make that part hard on survivors. By NOT interrupting them you're basically just giving it to them for free. Also "that's just math" literally doesn't even apply. Because that doesn't account for the variables of what could happen if he did chase them off.
Also isn't what you said about corrupt exactly what patrolling gens is for? To find survivors easier and prevent progress? I also find it funny that you think that they had god tier loops when over half of them were unsafe. Dude literally got a 3k as well. The only thing that was denying him downs was himself.
I stopped running slow-down perks. I realized that it only makes matches last longer. If survivors can power the gates before I kill them all it is fine with me. Either way, I earn my BP.
I would also add that giving up gen defense frees me up to experiment with other perks that survivors don't see every match.
Looking at the game from a pure math point of view a killer cannot win the game.
Gens take 80 seconds to complete without addons without perks just base time for 1 survivor.
Killer needs at least 15 seconds to find a survivor, and considering how loops loop to another loop and another and another and another lets say for arguments sake it takes an additional 60 seconds for a killer to get a down. Then 12 more seconds to hook total for an average killer 87 seconds. By the time he hooks, and tries to go to one of the 3 gens considering survivors split up on gens he can't prevent any of them from popping so he is 3 gens down 1 hook.
You make the math then and see if the gen speed is fine.
The sad part is that the higher you move in MMR as killer the more efficient people you find on gens because those are the ones who manage to raise their MMR by sticking on gens and getting out.
I swear almost all my games since the SBMM (skill btw the way = escaping) people stay injured just to get out cause adrenaline will pop on the last gen.
I have good games sure on smaller maps but on big maps unless I play Nurse or Blight or Freddy or Twins is extremely hard to impossible to win unless I make the game unfun for the other side which I don't want to.
Ruin/Undying is the most overrated and bullshit combo people spew out and then cry when it goes down in 20 seconds in a match. Now with boon totems every single survivor will know all totem spawns and good luck running any totem perks. I gave up on them long ago every time I use them they go down in 20-30 seconds giving me no value.
I stopped taking the game seriously and just try different builds and rarely use gen defence perks cause they are mostly detriment anyway.
Discordance.. people realise you have it and split on gens when you do.
There are core issues in the game that the devs refuse to see or admit. For them the maps are balanced, killer should bust their ass and have to deal with bodyblocks, pallet stun saves, flashlight saves and so on and so forth but please don't camp or slug the poor survivors.
And survivors with BT or DS don't just run in front of your face feeling immortal.
I played a game 2 nights ago on Yamaoka with Nurse. I blinked 4 times from one edge of the map to the other to find the survivors and a gen popped.... True the survivors all spawned together. I won the game because I made it unpleasant for them.
The fact is that all these things to blame are purely on the devs and not the players for using their tools to win.
The devs balance for 1v1 when the game is 1v4.
There are so many things that could be done to help both sides and create a bigger interraction, more objectives etc.
Totems for example when lit could be in a cage that requires a key to unlock. For every hex totem an extra chest could spawn in the map with a key therefore giving a different value to keys all together as well as not rendering hex totems completely useless for killers.
Gen speeds could be altered based on how many gens are left. 5 Gens should take 180 seconds to complete each, 4 gens 140, 3 gens 100 each and last 2 gens 80. The game simply handicaps the killers.
Optimal strategies are not often very fun for both sides, especually when make game very fast, removing interactions and make the game boring? It Is fun to You to make M1 simulator at gens or make the statue at hook to face camp? Or it Is only to secure a gen/kill and Win a boring match to go to next/ make big your insecure ego? Skill play must bw rewarded, so chase skill, no monke strategies to rush objectives for both sides, but balance is difficult I understand.
Tunneling is just an excuse for bad survivors. Don't be found so easily. Learn to be even a little stealthy.
Everyone says this but they don't take into account the variables of a match. They don't account for snowballing or anything like that. Increasing gen times would create artificial difficulty for survivors. Because then the killers who already know how to pressure survivors well would always win because the first gens would take too long to complete. Not to mention solo que where most players struggle to do gens efficiently. It's also assuming that survivors are only on gens the whole duration of the match which is not true.
Pressure builds. It's not given after a few hits. Pressure relies on you to capitalize on survivor mistakes (i.e not healing, getting greedy at a pallet/gen).
Also the devs have actually recognized camping, slugging and tunneling as a strategy. They just said they don't want to encourage it too much because it ruins the fun. Which is fair, it isn't always needed unless you're struggling.
Also what's wrong with people recognizing your perks? Good killers have learned to recognize what perks a survivor has so why is it bad when its the other way around? It's game knowledge which is something that gives you another advantage.
Also yes hex perks are way over rated and the people who want to take away the gamble from it have no clue about how the game balance works.