Killers are beginning to get tired of BHVR's BS
The mid-chapter notes has caused a lot of players to question BHVR's ability as developers, and to question dbd as a whole. these mid-chapter notes introduced a LOT of changes to both killers and survivors that includes gutting spirit and passing it on as "a skill increase to playing AS and AGAINST her" when in all reality everyone knows this is just a massive nerf.
Another very out of the blue nerf went to deathslinger who, in many peoples opinion, didnt need it. To compensate for this, BHVR gave trapper a buff (a couple more traps), and plague a buff (Yay! she is now moving out of the worst killer tier and into the 2nd-3rd worst killer tier).
For survivors a LOT more things got buffed and is going to be added, namely the Boon totems to the survivor sides excitement.
All in all the survivors get a new survivor, 3 new perks, 3 buffed perks, and boon totems.
The killers get, S tier spirit dead, worse killers made mediocre, 3 buffed perks (debatable on HEX: The third seal) and the inevitable knowledge that they will probably never get to enjoy hex totems again with the release of boon totems. (not that it was enjoyable with your ruin spawning in the middle of the street or next to a gen).
A LOT of killers are expressing their concerns and frustrations with this but it's doubtful BHVR will care as most all survivors love this. How much farther until the constantly unheard 1/5th has had enough? How far is BHVR willing to push this? With as toxic a community the one-sidedness has created I am willing to bet it wont be much longer until the dbd player base starts to crumble with some much more promising games similar to how dbd functions comes out. I would love to hear everyone's opinions on this! (Pls keep toxicity/being rude to yourself)
Comments
Did we read the same reaction to the patchnotes? I'm pretty sure almost everybody is very happy with most of the changes...
I would suggest just get rid of playable Killers and give the Survivors Killer bots to play against. The developers could get rid of the face-camping and proxy-tunneling in the bot code, so the game is much more fun for survivors. Plus, Killer bots would be much easier to code than survivor bots.
How is ghostface the worst?
Spirit is dead on high MMR.. so kinda agree.
Even if her Mother Daughter Ring & Yakuyoke Amulet combo still exists,
with Stridor nerf, Iron Will buff, all decent green addons disappearing, it is just stressful to play a killer who used to be more than that.
I'm not saying she did not need any changes. Sure thing is, it will be either Nurse or Blight on high MMR, what a vicious cycle.
What the hell...
Please structure your posts a bit more it is kinda hard to read when everything is just a single big paragraph.
However I would like to say that I am not feeling to bad as a Killer.
My boy Ghostface gets a buff where he needs it with his recovery time. Maybe now I can start bringing different add-ons. Trapper who is a huge fan favorite is getting a buff too that adresses his most pressing issue (carrying two traps), Pig finaly gets some other interesting add-ons which was also highly demanded. And even Plague gets some quality of life changes, Hillbilly some slightly better add-ons maybe finaly bringing him a bit more joy and even Michael gets some love and better add ons.
This is overall pretty good. Not to mention that Killers get a buff to Blood Favor and Third Seal, two very underwhelming perks that could get a lot better now and open up some interesting play.
Sure they nerf Deathslinger which is kinda sad. However their reasoning this time is quit sound as he had no lullaby (the only ranged Killer without such a thing) and also his counterplay was not existing prior to this update. Did you know that you get an audio warning when he aims at you? I did not because Slinger could insta-shot. This gets removed.
Spirit also gets nerfed because she was not interactive. This is a common complain and one that even I as a Spirit enthusiast can get behind. Most Spirit players hated that there was only a coin flip or that there was such a thing as the "standing-still-mindgame". Also her add-ons where quit overtuned and offered little to nothing to her power that was interesting (no, flat stat buffs are not intersting). Now she finaly gets some more interactive add-ons and and audio que.
However Spirit is still pretty strong. She is fast, has a small terror radius and can abuse Nurses Calling with Sloppy for some jumpscares. She is by no means "gone".
Did survivors get more during this update? Maybe.
However the last update only contained memorable Killer contant with Cenobite and his perks or the Trickster buffs. Survivors got nothing out of that.
As such, #tldr: I am fine. I get updates for my Killers (Billy and Ghosty) and fun new playthings.
It's nice to see a poster that is logical and level-headed every once in a while, instead of a maniac that is screaming at the sky telling everyone the world will end.
Games shouldn’t NEVER be balanced for low ranks, in my opinion.
If you cater to this small demographic, all it does it wildly unbalance it at the other end (high ranks) - which is what we’re seeing today. Also, people don’t tend to be stuck at the bottom if they play regularly - they’ll eventually get good enough to be an average skilled survivor with decent game knowledge (looping, how to counter certain killers, etc).
They are balancing it around average-level play. They can't balanced around high-level play and aren't balancing it around low-level play.
Lmao it's not a small demographic. Many people play this game just for fun, and not that often. Not to mention that licensed killers constantly get new players to play this game.
This game shouldn't ONLY be balanced around low rank players, sure, but they definitely need to be kept in mind when balancing this game. If one side is vastly overpowered than the other side at low ranks, that would be very bad for the game. It's not like most games where players have access to the same characters no matter which side they are on.
I would argue they do try to keep all skill level plays in mind. But it's just currently very tough to balance the game for all skill levels
That’s the better mindset. However, average level survivors can still pop 2-3 gens as you finish your first chase. Game is currently in a state where unless you run gen perks and resort to unfun tactics like tunneling or camping, you will have to sweat your bells off to have a fighting chance.
I agree. High-Level play is pretty much impossible for them to do much with, balance-wise though. Low-level play is hard to balance too. Average-Level play is where they are most effective. (I guess I should have said it like that).
It’s impossible to balance for all skill levels. Average skill should be the target demographic.
The main target demographic, yes. I am just saying they need to keep high and low skill in mind as well when balancing.
To be fair, at the average skill level this game is pretty good balance wise. At high skill level it's not that bad anymore in my opinion, but there is still quite a bit to improve.
Overall the patch is a mixed bag for killers.
Trapper had a small QoL buff that had been needed for years, with some add-on reworks to boot. I’m happy he finally gets an extra trap to carry around and it's a good start but let's be honest, he still needs adjustments.
Pig I can't comment on as I don't play her but it looks like she was nerfed in some areas and buffed in others.
Deathslinger’s nerf makes me question the dev’s understanding of their own game. Not only did they make him feel clunky to play as they did with Twins, but they nerfed his terror radius to “bring it in line with other ranged killers,” ignoring the fact that he had a smaller terror radius for a reason, being his fundamental design.
Huntress for example has a lullaby because she can hit you from across the map, down you very quickly, and down 2 survivors + injure a third before having to reload. That’s insane pressure and lethality. A lullaby makes perfect sense.
Deathslinger has a relatively short range, has to shoot you, reel you in and hit you, and that's if there’re no obstacles to break the chain. If the chain is broken he is stunned. Then he has to reload either way. That’s one damage state, taking notably longer to pull off, with a forced delay immediately thereafter.
Short range, much slower TTK, much less pressure, much less lethality. That’s why he had a shorter terror radius and it's pretty weird for the devs to disregard his fundamental dedign in favour some kind of “blanket balancing.”
Now vs. Deathslinger, a good survivor will just run to a safe spot as they hear his terror radius increasing. A killer relying on a strong 1vs1 to compensate for his terrible map pressure, having his 1vs1 and map pressure nerfed in one sweep. He can run tinkerer but that only works when it procs and briefly at that, and Deathslinger gets around the map very slowly.
Plague buffs seem really good and I'm looking forward to playing her.
Ghost face was nerfed and buffed depending in what add-ons you use.
Boons look like they’re going to be annoying/tedius to deal with but I look forward to trying them out on survivor.
Yeah it seems like people are just glossing over how little killer's getting buffed and how hard some are getting nerfed. They just focus on whatever new survivor stuff there is, and pay no mind to much else.
I'll just say that after taking long breaks (almost not playing) my neck pain has gone. And that says a lot... playing killer is stressful to that point, now stressful doesn't mean imposible obviously, most of the time i can get my kills againts those broken swfs, but it doesn't worth the healh impact that this game gives on you. Neither worth my time.
The game has the wrong approach, if there is someone that should be more stressed is survivor and not killers when you think about an horror game or movie. But here in dbd playing killer feels like being the clown of the party even if you play like a pro.
So if any of you guys have back, neck pain or heahaches, take my advise and just don't play. This game isn't healthy if you play killer, there are too much things that can be exploited to the max in a swf that you can't do anything despite how good you are.
His lack of ability to produce any kind of map pressure, hios 1v1 is good yes but he doesnt have the ability to pressure more than whatever survivor he stalks
It's halloween time sooo lets give survivors every reason to feel less afraid
Beginning? Some of us have been tired of their BS for years. The thing that finally got me to start seriously considering if I should quit DBD is the MMR system not taking breaks into account. It screws you over for trying to focus on other games instead of just DBD. Did you want to take a break from DBD to play that new game that just came out? You can, but you'll still be at your same rating going up against the same players when you return, so have fun!
About this patch, while it's not amazing, it's also nowhere near as bad as it can be. I'm shocked that Wraith got through with so little changes when every Survivor and their mother were throwing fits about him. If the devs don't make any surprise nerfs for the live patch I will be amazed.
"and Slinger is gonna be in basically the exact same spot he was before", someone clearly never played slingher before🤦They are nerfing his speed boost after coming out from cloaking so survivors can now just hold w and outrun his uncloak max distance attack. I wouldnt call that a little change, he like deathslinger needed no nerfs, this was just in response to bad survs calling him OP
As a killer main myself I would rather play 100 games of legion and pig each and get less frustrated than play a single game as plague(i.e. have fun hearing 2 gens pop while you walk 7 miles to pick up red fountain!)
Isn't it just undoing the last buff his speed boost got? He was still fine before that last buff, so I wouldn't think this would destroy him (he still doesn't need the nerf at all and they need to cancel the nerfs). Unless they're nerfing him even more than I'm thinking they are?
Also if you read the reasonings behind each change, you'll notice how the devs switch from "this wasn't performing where we wanted it to" to "Wraith was a wee bit OP" and that he had "obviously overpowered elements". It makes it sound like a dev lost to a Wraith, got angry, and went back to work with the intention of nerfing him just because they were mad.
To be frank, I feel like the devs did that with deathslinger too, I think one lost to a few in a row and then went back with the motivation to nerf him just because they vsed someone good
Blight's in trouble then, @Lord_Tony got Almo in a match and let him bleed out
Tell me why anyone should ever balance low to mid level play if it is balanced at the top 30% ? It is perceived as not balanced because YOU THE PLAYER SUCK and don't know what you are doing!
It is game destroying to balance around new to mid tier players (for money) because they always have the ability to get good. This game is one big churn. New players come in, get addicted and spend money in the store. They get good and discover how badly the game is balanced, get bored and frustrated and then leave or ######### on the forums lol.
As long as survivors are happy, they could care less.
(Yay! she is now moving out of the worst killer tier and into the 2nd-3rd worst killer tier).
Pfffffffft
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DanVLe-eVew&ab_channel=Yordsjust cause he gave his opinion on plague doesnt mean he is wrong
One game of a plague vs an un optomized team doesnt mean she is OP. that is crybaby/fragile mentality. after her power, if you dont cleanse, she is a simple m1 killer, DONT CLEANSE and she has nothing else going for her. plus with resilience this even HELPS survivors. stop being sarcastic and think of what a decent team could do vs her
I respectfully disagree that it’s not bad at higher MMR.
That is honestly a wild take. As for the subject of your topic, the developers care about both sides and have shown this time and time again. Keys are getting nerfed indirectly with the hatch not spawning until there's only one survivor left, and now no longer insta-open the hatch.
Boon Perks seem strong but honestly I don't see them shaking up the meta. Spirit and Deathslinger may be getting nerfed, but they're not being gutted. Not to mention other killers are getting add-on passes to make them better.
The changes for Spirit are going to make her a lot more fun to play against, and if you find yourself losing then maybe consider that you might not be as good as you thought you were. It's going to take out the guesswork for survivors, and challenge Spirit players to think outside the box.
The changes for Deathslinger aren't very significant, but ultimately necessary. M&A Deathslinger has a tiny terror radius, and quickscoping created a lose-lose scenario for survivors. When Pyramid Head was creating a lose-lose scenario for survivors, they nerfed him to rectify that problem. This is just them doing the same with Deathslinger.
While it may mean very little, I am a killer main but I also like to play survivor with my friends for fun. I see the upcoming mid-chapter update as nothing but a net positive across the board for both sides.
Well even a decent team would struggle when she starts to use addons, and she is getting pretty significant buffs too.
She already is very strong, and not cleansing doesn't work against a good plague anymore since she has a corrupt fountain by default. A good plague can mow down survivors with just enough to win the game with just one fountain. And most plagues run an apple addon as well.
Not cleansing against a good plague will end up with everyone dying unless you are on an indoor map. And no one runs resilience btw, a 9 percent increase in speed to certain actions won't change the entire course of the game either.
Just because she can't compete with that top percent of survivor teams does not mean she is one of the weakest killers.
I'll acknowledge your trolling so you can have validation for your efforts and will now go ahead and answer you.
Imagine all levels of play being balanced toward 4 man SWF death-squads, which is high end play. The Killer would need to be buffed to an insane level. Solo players, 2 man SWFs, SWFs not using comms, 3 man SWFs and 4 man play-for-fun SWFs, basically the other 95% of survivor players would be getting constantly 4ked and never escape.
If you want another example of a game that only balanced toward high-level play, look at Starcraft II. The Developers balanced that game to high-level play only. It made the game unplayable because of the required actions-per-minute just to play the game. All the casual gamers left that game in droves and it basically failed.
As a developer, you have to balance for all levels of play, because all levels of players play different. Low level players do not play like mid level players. Mid level players don't play like high level players. High level players don't play like low level players.
In fact, in Dead By Daylight, high level play is incredibly hard to balance for because it consists of Nurses and Spirits almost exclusively and SWF death-squads almost exclusively. You don't have that at other levels of play, it has to be balanced differently.
I have very mixed feelings about boon totems, but what they have done with the killers is simply great.
Spirit nerf was definitly needed, no doubt about that. The lack of counterplay made her complelty unpredictable as survivor and more off a guessing game then anything else while Spirit had full control of every chase.
Deathslinger is considered to be the most annoying killer to be out there and his power makes survivors be in a loose loose situation all the time. Quickscoping and especially faking his quickscoping made it much to oppressive in a chase. A good change, but i wish they would have gave him something in return. Nothing big, but something.
Trapper buff is great, he is weak and with this changes, he is definitly stronger and especially more reliable now. Also the annoying RNG factor is gone. Cant wait to play him.
Plague was never a bottom tier killer, she is somewhere in the middle, and this buff makes her not op but much stronger in the 1on1 scenarios especially.
All in all, great mid chapter. Hope they come up with more stuff like this.
Spirit had 0 counterplay before. How was she in a good spot? lol
I can share some of the views on the issues on this game. SWF being the main issue since it breaks balance because of comms. But, come on, Spirit was a bullshit of a killer and she will still probably be after the "nerf".
Sorry for some reason I was not notified you responded to me.
So in response to you....No. Legion is not better than Ghostface and good survivors can care less about his crap pressure that he can't down with. He can cancel his power but eats a DS giving survivors time to react. Ghostface is much more of a treat hands down.
This is the exact reason me and my friends quit playing Overwatch. It simply wasn't fun anymore and balancing around the highest levels of play meant that the game couldn't be enjoyed casually anymore.
This is just 2 opinions that will have to agree to disagree then! we each have personal opinions and I think you bring up fair points but I still disagree, but thank you for being civil and actually responding with a reason!
I agree to disagree then, its true for some of what you said but still what you said doesnt happen 100% of the time either. you bring up fair points and i acknowledge that but I still think rn before these buffs she is one of the worse killers. Thank you for your input though!
But why does every chase for every killer have to put survivor in the power role? Spirit made SURVIVORS guess and have to mindgame but I dont agree with making every killer "fun to play against", this means the 4v1 turns into 4 different 1v1's with the survivors in the power role while in chase which is SEVERELY unfair if objectives are going well for survivors. survivors SHOULD have to think outside the box for a killer like spirit, they made spirit "fun to play against" for survivor (AKA wayyyyyyyy easier to play vs with audio and possible visual ques resulting in no mindgame when in phase) but she will be so much more powerless in chases if survivors are at a decent pallet. why are killers the ones constantly having to mindgame while survs get it easy, arent survivors the ones being hunted? shouldnt survivors NOT feel safe? this game is called dead by daylight for a reason. not gg ez 4v1 no mindgame for every killer because survivors cant make a read
Of course. I always try it just sometimes don't go down that way. I am not saying any of them are great because there not (Legion, Ghostface, Trapper, Mike, Pig) but some of them bring more to the table than others IMO. Good talk bud GG.
same to you, thank you for talking to me :) GG and have a wonderful day!
DbD is dying, players are already leaving massively since SBMM release and the desertion will be huge with the next update.
BHVR won't be able to fix anything fast enough and mot of the playerbase will move on on another game and never comes back.
I hope that the players will stop to accept all those bullshit changes. Time will tell.
For now, peak players is at 50k against 75k 2 weeks ago.
And on Twitch the viewers average number drop is -20% which is huge.
You do realize that on the general section you just see the titles? Based on your title I thought you would talk with a mature neutral mind set and wanted to discuss, what I see here is someone who claims to be a "veteran" and lacks the knowledge and mind set to understand changes for both sides, and therefore you just complain about things that seem to you unjustified which is pretty sad to see sry to say that.
Also simply calling me a survivor main is not really an insult, I am actually a Killer main but idk why you try to put the term survivor main as an insult, you should really grow up dude xD
I wonder if people who create severely biased threads go back and read their posts 10 years from now and cringe.
You don't need to camp and tunnel. I don't and I face competent teams daily.
You never need to unless a game has gone extremely bad and you want at least one kill
Fact is killers are leaving the sinking ship and you cannot deny it.
Killer queues are instant at high MMR while survivor queues are really long (5 to 10 minutes).
And if you play survivor at high MMR (i don't know if you play survivor and if you are good at it), you will see that you will face bad killers most of the time, it means that all good killers have stopped to play.
On Twitch, many streamers (not only main stream streamers but also small ones) have stopped to play killer aswell.
Playing killer is a joke now, you either have babies surv or strong, unbeatable teams, neither is fun. And this with the goal to artificially make the game looks balanced. BHVR released the kill rate stats in a hurry to show how balanced the game is now, what a joke. Every trials is unbalanced but the global results, the average is "balanced".