I think patch 3.1 was one of the worst decisions behaviour has ever made regarding this game
In this patch, freddy got his rework.
I don't say this because I like old freddy more or anything like that (I do, but that's not the point)
I say this because, a character got removed from the game and never came back. And that is never good.
When this happens in other games, it's not fun.
In LoL they reworked the champion Aatrox. I wasn't around for it, but he was nothing like his old self in the rework.
I remember this video explaining it well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a764zGHTSIjust gonna link this reddit thread, just players talking about it a bit.
22 votes and 17 comments so far on Reddit
(and knowing how toxic the LoL playerbase was, I can only imagine how much hate was going around at the time)
even now there are people angry about losing their favourite character. people who play new aatrox because they miss old aatrox, people who despise new aatrox for even existing.
and also people who enjoy new aatrox more and people who only ever knew new aatrox.
I'm gonna just assume everyone knows about the national dex in pokemon sword and shield...
there's more examples. Like how people felt about cyborg sub-zero in mk9 (even then, regular sub-zero still existed in mk9, people were just dreading not having him in mk10). Or with heartstone, when they changed a card effect, meaning the card people payed to get did not exist anymore, and since the game is only digital it's not like they can just pick it up and play with friends using the old effect.
but I think I made my point.
the same situation happened here. Freedy got deleted from the game and we got something different also named Freddy to replace him.
and that is just terrible.
Other characters got reworks, bubba, clown, billy. bubba changing the most from his old self.
bubba used to be a killer that would charge his chainsaw, and while using his chainsaw he would go a bit faster while having full control of his movement and could down multiple survivors at once if he managed to catch them out of position. but he had no inate ability related to slowing the pace of the game or gathering information, his power was only applicable in chase.
and new bubba is a killer that charges his chainsaw, and while using his chainsaw he goes a bit faster while having full control of his movement and can down multiple survivors at once if he manages to catch them out of position. but has no inate ability related to slowing the pace of the game or gathering information, his power is only applicable in chase.
I feel like most people would agree this is a correct description of old and new bubba (maybe someone would disagree with "a bit faster", but semantics). and yet, everyone also agrees that new bubba is very different from old bubba. because while he got a bunch of changes, his essence remained the same.
he didn't change from a fast moving, always on the offensive type of killer to a slower, more area control kind of killer.
same applies to billy and clown. Clown got an extra trick to use on matches, making him more interesting. but retaining his core gameplay.
if billy's change was good or bad aside, we can't deny that new billy, is still old billy. but with a thing saying you need to stop being billy for an annoying amount of time before resuming business as usual.
Maybe I ranted for a bit too long to arrive here, but the main point is...
-Old Freddy didn't get changed, he got deleted and replaced with something else. this is extremely unfair to every single person that enjoyed old freddy.
-new freddy will never be able to replace old freddy. he will gather his own playerbase who may or may not relate to old freddy's playerbase.
-simply changing freddy back right now would just create this exact same issue but the other way around. and I don't think you can successfully merge the 2 into 1 character while keeping both their essences. they are just too different.
-I really hope behaviour absolutely never does this again. even if you despise a character, he is someone's favourite and they should be allowed to continue having their character to play as.
I hope behaviour can recognise this mistake and find a way to bring old freddy back into the game without removing new freedy. (maybe as an addon? maybe a button on freddy to switch his power? idk)
I've been typing this for a while... I just felt nostalgic for old freddy for a bit and wanted to vent...
Anyway... let's remember the old times for a bit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OgCvfzNyHcedit - apparently the assets are still in the game...
@QwQw said:
So, as everyone already knows, Freddy recently got nerfed. I personally doubt the changes will effect him too much, but what I'm mad about is that it shows the devs' ignorance towards his actual problems. The problem with Freddy wasn't that he was strong, it was that he was strong and boring.
Instead of making his power fun and interesting for both sides, they just gave him a nerf and called it a day.
But I digress, this wasn't what I made this thread to talk about.
No, what I'm TRULY mad about is the fact that they haven't given us a way to play as Old Freddy.
I've seen so many people asking to play as him again, and I completely understand why. Though Old Freddy may not have been the strongest out there, he was unique, there was no other killer like him.
Hell, why the devs thought reworking Freddy in the first place was a good idea, I simply do not understand.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D4WVECR9D4JR/image-284-29.png
All they needed to do is revert this nerf, and I personally believe Freddy would have been in a perfect spot.
Like, is it really that hard to give us an add-on, or a toggle of some kind to let us use Old Freddy's power? I see no reason why the devs haven't already done this, other than out of laziness, or stubbornness.
Hell what makes it even worse, is that they REUSED ASSETS FROM OLD FREDDY'S POWER FOR THIS NERF.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwaDgSKImpI
In King's video, at around 5:40 seconds in, you can see him hit a Dwight, and it plays the exact same effect as when Old Freddy would try to hit an awake survivor.
You guys have the assets, why is there no option to play as Old Freddy?
#GiveUsBackOldFreddy
there's really no excuse as to why we can't have old freddy back. either as a toggle on freedy, or a "new" killer.
Comments
If that is so, then I suppose I won't be able to change your mind.
I am confident that most of the community want Old Freddy back. New Freddy is the minority.
But you may believe what you wish to believe, I cannot change that. I can only respect your opinion.
I mean, passionate and vocal minorities are known to band together consistently in an echo-chamber-like manner.
As I've said, I won't be able to change your mind, no matter what evidence I present to you. And you won't be able to change mine, no matter what you say to me.
We both think of ourselves as the "right" side of this discussion, and guess what? Maybe we are.
So, why don't we stick to my initial suggestion? Add a "toggle" option which allow us to choose between both os his powers.
Problem solved and everyone is happy.
It has been a while, so I will probaby struggle to find an exact quote, but I belieeeeeve devs have said in the past that they actively don't want Old Freddy back and if they did, they wouldn't have gone the nuclear route of effectively creating a whole new Killer in the first place.
Honestly i don't think anyone would be apposed if you could choose between either freddy. Some people loved old. some people....generally like new. Newer reworks they actually acknowledge this by not changing the killers fundamental playstyle. For instance clowns and doctors (unless ya stayed in treatment 24/7). Old freddy i Honestly had more fun being complete invis with a ability to put survivors asleep at will and see them around the map over new. Where ya put ######### on the floor over and over until you get a hit.
The community's opinion should be way more important than what the devs want. It isn't, but it should be.
Also, they've screwed up on his rework. They cannot keep that generic and dumb version of him in the game.
It doesn't take much to realise that.
Well said, my friend. Thank you.
A bad point add-on?
Speed Limiter is low-key busted and I will die on this hill.
Eh, I personally prefer new Freddy to old Freddy by leagues, so I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that second part.
Then let both of them coexist. It is simple. It is an easy fix.
Not sure the devs are willing to put an entire Killer's amount of effort into re-programming in a Killer they already deleted the first time around and then re-structure the game to allow two separate Killers to co-exist as the same Killer.
Then they shouldn't have removed him entirely. My solution would work and it is a simple fix, not to mention finally put an end to this debate.
Besides, Old Freddy's assets, as @QwQw proved, are still there. All of his coding probably still exists, all they need to do is implement it as a separate option.
You fprgot the doctor rework.
You know when he used to drive up madness by exisiting in his shocker form and didn't have a AoE nuke that raises you a level instantly.
I don't know if you're referring to the wrong person or if the thing you are referring to is in a different thread, but I only see one post here by that person and it has nothing to do with what you said?
Different thread.
He's referring to a thread I made about Old Freddy. In said thread I posted a video by The King which showed the devs still have Old Freddy's assets.
Precisely. Sorry for mentioning you, but it is just something I was trying to point out.
No, no, it's fine :)
Glad to hear it :)
I feel the main issue with old Freddy was once in the dream world he slowed down everything to a crawl. This had Implications on other things such as slowdown perks or speed up items.
It was also complete rng with his power on if you could get out the dream world as it was dependant on a skill check or finding another survivor. On top of that he gave no feedback to where he was outside the dream world.
It was not exactly engaging gameplay for either side. As Freddy you relied on the slowdown as you were a put to sleep and m1 killer.
For balance sake he had to be changed before they changed toolboxes, prove thyself etc. Somethings that hurt other killers due to being too strong and changes being held back becasue of what one killer can do is never good.
I don't ignore legion. I think legion should get most, if not all, changes reverted to before their big first nerf. I believe it was around 1 month after their release? don't know, wasn't around for it.
But I wanted to talk about freddy here.
that's besides the point.
People liked him, people should be allowed to play him.
afaik, no. never said anything about bringing him back or never bringing him back.
can you ellaborate? what are there issues?
none of us have any way of knowing who's the vocal minority or the majority. I don't see the point in trying to argue it.
I think the energy would be better spent, trying to find a middle ground. where both sides get something they want
I didn't forget. I just didn't bring it up.
I think it was a very good rework. instead of the 1 time use radar that treatment mode was, we got a better version of it.
the assets are literally still in the game?
I really see no reason not to put them in use... either as a toggle for freddy, or a new killer...
but deleting the character is a bad solution.
it's extremely unfair, specially since people payed money for him.
imagine if they just... added the clocks. now you can easily come out of the dream world and making the trip to the clock is actually worth it.
it would be nice to make saving survivors more accessible to newer players without learning a specific timing and having i-frames in animations lol. its not hard to position correctly as killer or take lightborn if its an issue.
yeah...no.
this was insanely unfair.
Yes, I can.
Old Legion (I'm just going to say Legion for the rest of this post, please know I mean Old Legion) has the current Spirit problem, except while she's at a 10, they've cranked it up to a 30.
There is nothing you can do vs Legion except hope and pray your teammates can do generators. Let's look at the options:
Legion has tracking with Killer Instinct, so all it takes is one slip-up from one member of your team and the plan falls apart at the seams.
Deep Wounds would tick down outside of a chase to make this impossible. While it could be possible with the current iteration of DW, as it ticks down when running then moving crouched/walking to escape makes this still impossible- Lucky Break is the only hope you'd have.
Legion has no cooldown to their attacks, and so can swing when they want.
Legion respects the pallet and gets a free hit with their power by vaulting (as they can use their power whenever). You greed, they catch up with their power and down you (as they move faster than Modern Legion).
Legion vaults right after and gets a hit.
Legion has no counterplay inside of a chase, and the only counterplay outside of a chase is to split up and hold M1, which is both incredibly boring and never happens in solo because nobody seems to know how to repair a generator. The 3 people who do know always seem to 3gen.
Legion should never return to this state, they were unhealthy for the game and releasing a killer like that was the 2nd worst decision BHVR have ever made in regards to DBD.
Yeah the assets are still here.
It was extremely unlikely that they just deleted them from the game before, but this is proof they still have them.
Were this to be the case, then they would have to make it cancel the current animation and play immidiately into the drop animation. You must understand, however, that was not what it did. The pickup animation was also 3x as long as it is currently.
Fair enough, honestly. I think if it cancelled the animation it would waste less of the killers time committing to the pickup that they were punished for, which is one of the most frustrating parts of being flash lighted is the time wasted, and the lack of control I find.
-Use stealth to never be found
Legion has tracking with Killer Instinct, so all it takes is one slip-up from one member of your team and the plan falls apart at the seams.
-Use stealth to escape a chase
Deep Wounds would tick down outside of a chase to make this impossible. While it could be possible with the current iteration of DW, as it ticks down when running then moving crouched/walking to escape makes this still impossible- Lucky Break is the only hope you'd have.
doesn't this also apply to current legion? what about old legion makes this part special?
-Perform a juke to make them miss a swing and buy more time to reach another loop
Legion has no cooldown to their attacks, and so can swing when they want.
did old legion not lose their power after a miss?
I can see that being an issue. But I do think losing the full bar of power is too much... maybe half? so they can't just spam it, but still has enough wiggle room.
- Stun them with a pallet and make distance
Legion respects the pallet and gets a free hit with their power by vaulting (as they can use their power whenever). You greed, they catch up with their power and down you (as they move faster than Modern Legion).
same applies to current legion. they might not be as fast, but this interaction is still the same. you greed, they catch up.
Vault a window for distance
Legion vaults right after and gets a hit.
unlike current legion? which can't vault windows?
I don't see what about old legion changes this interaction.
Legion has no counterplay inside of a chase
who does really? eventually every killer will get you. it's about delaying it as long as you can.
Legion should never return to this state
I still don't see why.
Is it reducing the timer of deep wounds with each stab? because legion is currently the only killer that can't down people with their power, and I think that's bad.
so, gonna propose 1 change to their power.
-hitting a survivor again with their ability will decrease their power meter by 75% of it's total amount.
-each hit in the same frenzy, will apply deep wounds with a fixed time. (if you hit the same survivor, you replace the timer)
so, it would be like...
1st hit - dp with regular timer
2nd hit - dp with 80% of regular timer
3rd hit - dp with 50%
4th hit - insta down.
I think we can agree that legion getting 3 or 4 hits in the same frenzy is quite rare, so a big reward for a 4th hit is fair.
would this change make it fun for you?
doesn't this also apply to current legion? what about old legion makes this part special?
The fact that Current Legion cannot down you with their power.
Did old legion not lose their power after a miss?I can see that being an issue.
But I do think losing the full bar of power is too much... maybe half? so they can't just spam it, but still has enough wiggle room.
No, they did not. And no, missing a swing should punish you, because you messed up. It's easier than normal to hit one of his lunges due to the extended range + FOV, too.
same applies to current legion. they might not be as fast, but this interaction is still the same. you greed, they catch up.
Except they cannot down you. Also they cannot use their power whenever they want.
unlike current legion? which can't vault windows?
I don't see what about old legion changes this interaction.
Unlike Current Legion, WHO CANNOT DOWN YOU WITH THEIR POWER. THAT'S the difference here.
who does really? eventually every killer will get you. it's about delaying it as long as you can.
Every killer can be mindgamed. Old Legion could not. You get seen, you die. There is something you can do in a chase against every killer to buy more time. Old Legion can, and will, always down you within the same amount of time.
Is it reducing the timer of deep wounds with each stab? because legion is currently the only killer that can't down people with their power, and I think that's bad.
YES. THIS IS THE EXACT ISSUE AND THE REASON LEGION IS SO FLAWED HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT
I think we can agree that legion getting 3 or 4 hits in the same frenzy is quite rare, so a big reward for a 4th hit is fair.
So basically you'd make Legion an even greater solo stomper while leaving them weak as anything against SWF teams?
No offence, but this is the one of the worst ideas for a Legion change I've heard, second only to "Bring back Old Legion".
would this change make it fun for you?
Not in the slightest. You missed the issues with Legion completely and instead opted to make it even worse to deal with in solo.
Good job!
Freddy was completely changed for good reasons, his old power was full of bs mechanics. Complete invisibility, unlimited aura reading, inability to interact with awake survivors... He was the personification of the phrase "You can run, but you can't hide", which works great in movies but sucks in a game.
Also one of the things people forget about old legion, was that old legion could see blood in Feral Frenzy as well. Blood is the most accurate way to track survivors as they can't hide it without a perk (and at the time that was just No Mither). Bloodhound was pretty common on old legion, because it made keeping on survivors in FF easy.
Also another thing I see people forget to mention is that deep wounds timer would still go down while the survivor was mending as well. Meaning if the killer ever approached you while you were mending, you would 100% go down since you couldn't stop mending without immediately going down to deep wounds.
All of his mechanics were perfectly balanced, except one of them. I could prove it to you, but I would need a time machine.
GoodBoyKaru... calm down. we are just talking.
I realized the timer thing by the end of my post and just didn't feel like editing it.
No, they did not. And no, missing a swing should punish you, because you messed up.
ok. now I know.
I agree they should be punished, but I think losing their full power bar is a bit much.
but then I remembered legion would be functioning in a state where they don't need their full power bar to activate feral frenzy. so it's fine it they lose it when they miss. (I wasn't around for old legion, so current legion keeps randomly blending in since they aren't fully separated in my head)
Every killer can be mindgamed. Old Legion could not. You get seen, you die. There is something you can do in a chase against every killer to buy more time. Old Legion can, and will, always down you within the same amount of time.
ok, I understand this now.
So basically you'd make Legion an even greater solo stomper while leaving them weak as anything against SWF teams?
I don't see how they would be stronger vs solos... I don't know about you, but I rarely get a 3rd hit in the same feral frenzy. except maybe the very beggining of a match if every survivor happened to spawn together or very close.
but they would be weaker against swf. and that would be an issue...
so, what's your suggestion? what's the middle ground between you and someone who wants old legion back?
*I ask, but I think we should change threads if we are gonna continue talking about this.
The Nurse part was perfectly fine. The flashlight/pallet stun was the busted tho.
so, what's your suggestion? what's the middle ground between you and someone who wants old legion back?
My suggestion? Don't listen to the people that want Old Legion back. Like don't listen to the people who want old Decisive Strike, or old Exhaustion, back. These things have no place in modern DBD and if you want them back, too bad. If someone is unhealthy for the game, don't put it back in.
Maybe they were balanced, but still were considered not fun by the majority of the community.
Oh man I remember that shitshow. That was a "do they even play their game at all?" moment.
by a vocal % of the community. you don't know how big it was.
also, some people consider new freddy not fun aswell. should we continue removing things some amount of people don't think is fun until there isn't a game left anymore?
Broken of Kin says hi
I still have nightmares of the the desync and first MMR test
that was a bug. not a decision.
they made the decision to ship it in that state
It's not quite that simple as adding clocks like they are now still wastes lots of time so it would still be a huge slowdown as its something that needs to be done.
Come across multiple survivors you effectively slowed the game down by an large amount due to rng or making them wake up.
That would be a similar mechanic to the pig but you can chose when to do it if it's not active, it doesn't slow down the actions in the same way and she still has to chase someone and down them before that can take effect.
Always take into consideration when buying any dlc that these can and do change for the sake of the game itself.
oh yeah, now that you've reminded me of his pointless tacked on aura reading... screw old freddy.
It does not work like that. I thought the exact same thing when Legion got changed: "It is fair, the EULA confirms it".
Until they ruined my main.
still a bug. not a decision.
they didn't choose to have it in there.
Never thought I would see someone complain about aura reading, but here we are.
I never said it was against whatever the contract says...
just that it's an extremely awful thing to do.
"See? the contract says I can be a total dipshit"
you are still a dipshit for doing it.
killers get screwed by rng too... that's how this game works
edit - oh hey... I found a curse that isn't autocensored... neat
Just an observation, really. I wonder if people would have any issues with Freddy if he were originally released in the same state that he's in today.
I have no dog in the fight, I wasn't here for old Freddy. Just kind of wondering aloud.
There's something about old Bubba that I really love. Probably nostalgia. I mean, new Bubba is WAY better imo, but idk. I do miss Nemesis PWYF Bubba.
I also want them to make it so his chainsaw can be held down like it used to be for that add-on.