E to extend chase
What do you guys think that dead hard could be reworked to do, but still be useful?
The devs mentioned that they were reworking it a while back, but we still have no news on it. The only thing I can think of how it works is if it changes to do with protection hits.
Comments
I dont think theres much they can do to it without basically killing it (circa BL).
With hitboxes the way they are you cant even extend loops with it at the moment and even without the current hitbox debacle it was unreliable imho. As killer you just wait a second before you swing. SB is better imho.
I think they should just leave well enough alone...
I think they are trying to make it work guaranteed?
Something about the complaints about being exhausted on the ground due to latency so the devs want to make sure that situation doesn't happen.
RIP anyone who doesn't have 60+ ping
I don't know if this is a coincidence or not but you made a thread on dead hard next to the thread complaining about it. Did you do this on purpose?
Without ruining the identity of the perk nothing.
remove I frames nothing changes
removes dash it’s useless
I feel there is no middle ground. If you nerf it it becomes useless, if you don't its supposedly overpowered.
If they were going to nerf it I would say make it a token system. 3 uses of dead hard and that's it. Although I would prefer they fix the perk before nerfing it.
It was saved in my drafts along with a couple of other discussions I have saved, it was a coincidence.
Yeah, I think SB is just better overall and is much better. Too bad many players don't know how to play with it.
It's debatable if it has value now with how unreliable it is.
But any major changes to the design of this perk will make it useless.
The only issue with dead hard is that bad killers love to cry about it. It’s one of the only things survivors can use to extend a chase. Killers have multiple perks and add ons that reduce chases and take no skill to use either, but those are clearly fine but DH isn’t...
If it was saved in your discussions what made you want to talk about it now? (Sorry if I'm prying)
You aren't prying, it's fine.
Just cuz I felt like it, I like to have discussions ready to be posted. I have another one saved for why Trapper needs certain buffs that I might post later.
It needs a nerf, it has no counter play, way to overpowered on good survivors.
I don't think it needs any changes, all exhaustion perks extend chase in different ways. If it gets nefed, people will just switch to using sprint burst and learn how to use it properly which is even stronger then DH in terms of extending the chase.
If it really needed to be nerfed, I'd say just extend the exhaustion timer by 20s so it takes longer to come back. I wouldn't want to see any changes to its functionality.
Ok then. Part of my opinion is above. But I feel its a problem for bad killers and not a problem for good killers. I say this due to what I observed from playing with it.
But if they consider any nerf to it they have to fix it first. That should be priority number one for dead hard.
DH was intended to avoid taking a hit, which meant the risk was that the killer waited for it to happen than swing.
DH for distance has no risk, so I would propose lock survivor's interactions for 2 seconds, in other words, they can't vault, throw down a pallet, etc. This will make survivor's take a risk and decide what they wanna do.
If they avoid taking a hit they're probably out positioned, and they gain some distance because the killer is recovering. If they use it for distance than they need to make the right read weather they'll have enough distance to loop and throw the pallet down, and to not get mind gamed
Well, it isn't exactly the fairest perk, is it? Survivors can completely ignore Trapper's traps which is the only thing he has against them with this perk. All they have to do to extend a chase is press E (not for dodging) just for distance alone which doesn't seem very skillful and can be used multiple times. I have had countless times where the survivor presses the E key on their keyboard and extends the chase for another 30 seconds.
I don't think it is right to say that killers have addons that take no skill to use because it affects their power which does take skill to use, it just buffs it a bit. Take huntresses belt addons for example, they don't require skill to use because they are just addons making your power stronger and killers take much more skill than survivor. They don't directly make the killer's power any less skillful to use (with a few exceptions ie iri head) As for perks, a killer still has to use them properly to get full usage out of it such as the old ruin + undying combo, same for survivors. Survivors using a perk like SB can still use it skillfully during a chase like 99%ing their exhaustion and then using it when the killer gets too close which is tricky for newer survivors.
Remove i-frames from it. Can be used when healthy or injured. I-frames should not exist in this game imo.
I think it is still a problem for good killers. It still is powerful in a chase against any killer and it doesn't really matter how good you are. You have no way to stop the survivor from pressing E
The 2-second penalty of not being able to perform an action sounds really interesting, it would make it high-risk high reward for players who know if the killer will catch up or not.
I guess this is just from my perspective, because from facing good killers it doesn't seem to make an impact.
It does, it can often make them drop the chase and return to the other survivors especially on the coldwind farm maps that have nasty tile spawns.
Would that really work though? Would it not just make Dead Hard useless? If feel there would need an experiment to see.
I've been saying the same thing forever. Unlike Dead Hard, Sprint Burst doesn't require you to be injured to use it
I don't think it would make the perk useless. For example, you could dead hard during a loop if you think the killer is going to catch up to you right before you make it to the pallet or window and if you time it perfectly you will make it. It would give the perk some skillful aspect to it which would make it feel fairer. But yes, it is an experiment that should be tested.
Dead Hard is fine as it is. Killers should stop complaining about it just like survivor should stop complaining about BBQ. Is it a strong perk? Yes. Should survivors and killers have strong perks? Absolutely! If anything we need to buff other perks to make them more viable, not nerf perks to make them less useful.
But what your describing is the same problem right? They still dead harded not because they wanted to dodge a hit but to make it too the pallet, so they still dead harded for distance.
Also I just thought of this but isn't dead harding for distance the same as dead harding to avoid a hit? Because you dead hard to the pallet or window to technically avoid taking a hit right?
Deadhard is so overrated, i only hate it when i'm playing nurse. I don't get why people would complain about deadhard and not about sprintburst when it's useful 9/10 times and not 1/10.
I think by 'reworking' they meant how it functions, not literally reworking it, they want it work on dedicated servers.
Yes, it is still using it for distance, but you can't use it as mindlessly as before this way. You have to time it just right instead of just pressing E at any time so by the time the 2-second cooldown of not being able to do any action is over, you can drop or vault a window.
I guess these actions could be considered the same thing, but just in the form of a perk.
That applies to some addons sure, but there's still a good handful of addons with no counter that are powerful and many perks. The classic Endurafury is such a thing, when you as a survivor play correctly, you can be downed for it because the killer broke two pallets with a teammate that you couldn't have known about. That is imo the exact same situation as dead hard, where you played correctly, you won a mind game and the chase at this loop but the opposing party Presses E/instabreaks the pallet and swings, and you lose a hit/go down regardless of outplaying.
I guess I understand what your saying but I still would need to see an experiment with it to conclusively prove it.
Kind of, but EndFury requires 2 whole perk slots and can easily be played around (most of the time) by dropping the pallet earlier.
Dead Hard however can't be played around in loops if the survivor knows how to use it.
It's very frustrating to deal with because it lets you erase a good mindgame or great use of a killer power with very minimal effort.
You can only play around endfury if you know they have it. The fact remains that the killer can chase someone else for the start of the match, then when you are in the next chase, you go down to perks which had no counter, and for which you had no ability to know about. This also comes at the cost of you wasting limited resources for no reason. Saying "Well drop pallets early" isn't really a viable tactic because you shouldn't have to play poorly to counter potential perk combos with no counterplay unless you have knowledge of it beforehand. And if you do know, then it shortens every loop by a solid 1-2 loops unless you have dead hard to extend it since you'll have to drop early.
Tombstone Piece, Redhead's Pinky Finger, Iridescent Stone, Iri Head (pre rework, assuming). Most exhaustion perks, DS, Iron Will, There are multitudes of things that require *no skill* to use effectively that can't be played around, and it is likely to stay that way because the game is build nowadays around the chase and perks/addons are going to be built around affecting it, with or without counters.
You know they are reworking it so that it actually works right? Not because they think it's not balanced.
I do now