The fact that the Devs are disabling Bloodlust illustrates how survivor sided they are.
Bloodlust allows killers to potentially down survivors when they've been in a chase for a long time without breaking pallets. Not only does this change force killers to break pallets they could otherwise bloodlust, but it gives the potential to drastically increase chase times without any downside to the survivors.
Game is just becoming more and more survivor sided. First they nerfed bloodlust now theyre removing it all together.
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BL was always intended as a temporary mechanic to help with looping while the devs reworked the maps. They reworked several maps, now they need to know if BL is still needed or not. If it is, they need to know which loops still need reworks. If not, they need to rework Beast of Prey and permanently disable BL.
I know, it was a bandaid.
Removing it makes sense as long as the problems, that it tried to fix, are also gone.
My approach would be to give killers the same hitbox as survivors. Then survivors wouldn´t have that much of an advantage during loops and BL could be removed.
Since they are testing things like that. Why not. They could test removing certain things regularly during weekends.
I would love to have a weekend with no terror radius.
Jump scares for everyone!
They specifically said that this is a test and they don't have future plans on removing bloodlust yet. They will have to make a lot of changes in order to justify the change
Over the years, the game became just easier and easier for Killers. Like, the game today cannot be compared to the game 2 years ago. Let alone, the game 4 years ago.
There were many Survivor Nerfs over time, which were also justified. Now they are also reworking the Maps and the reworked Maps have fairer Loops than before - unsafe Pallets which can be played by Killer and Survivor. Both have the chance of outplaying each other, however, with Bloodlust, those fair Loops become unfair, because the Killer gets a free Speedboost, which makes the Loop in the favor of the Killer, even if they got outplayed on it.
So they are testing if they can remove the band-aid fix they introduced years ago. And on the reworked Maps or newer Maps - yes, they can do that. I guess there will be multiple tests over the next months, so Bloodlust will stay in the game (and sadly carry some Killers...), but if the game becomes easier for one side, it is clear that there will also be some Nerfs. Thats how Balance works.
Balance is not "Nerf Survivors, buff Killers and nothing else".
Here is the thing: Devs used to be blatantly survivor sided. Post-vacuum pallets were a... moment in the game's history, and Bloodlust are a big part of that history. Like 'Collective bargaining' was involved, it was a THING.
So in some ways bloodlust is a symbol of progress of the devs not totally dumpstering the killer experience by introducing core system changes to fix their problems like they were constantly doing for survivors at the time.
I think it is pretty reasonable for killers to be agro considering the 'metatext' of bloodlust, its symbolic importance to the relationship between killers and the devs. Because bloodlust was a bandaid patch, sure. But it also was like... a concession and recognition of humanity after a really nasty struggle where the game legit just almost freaking died due to systemic mistreatment of a portion of the playerbase that has less power over the game due to their smaller size and being less monetizable.
In addition there is a long history of negative 'base system' changes for killer. Swivelhook, camping penalties, vacuum pallets (which are a whole thing. 90% of the time any survivor says 'Devs pay attention to killers too!' they list a vacuum pallet bandaid fix that wasn't actually 'for' killers but an attempt to get them to tollerate that mess. None of those 'count' as killer buffs, they are a desperate attempt to keep vacuums in despite them clearly being a bad idea), mori nerfs, ect. Many of these were, in fact, good changes, but it was super noticeable that 'changes that were clearly good for the game' happened very fast for survivors, but extremely slowly for killers. Swivel was added basically as soon as it was thought of. Changing the hatch standoff mechanics in order to make endgame not an almost auto-lose for the killer took AAAAAAAGEEEES.
So that adds salt to the wound for the 'test' in that its a sudden system change on killers yet again when we were sorta... past that and were starting to get ACTUAL killer TLC. And its being done to a very symbolically important system (and one that doesn't... actually affect the game that much either way and just ensures infinite don't actually occur anymore). So I wouldn't say 'Devs are survivor sided again, its 2017 all over again! The dark times have returned!'
But I definitely can see why every killer is panicing out of their minds with almost 'Changelog PTSD.' To be honest I hate this test on many levels beyond the actual impact on the game for this reason. It is such a... step backwards for community management.
While i agree, that killers have it easier now, than they had it years ago. The meta for survivors didn´t change.
The survivor meta perks from 3 years ago are exactly the same as the survivor meta perks we have now.
We really didn´t have any significant changes to the survivor meta. While the killer meta constantly changes because of hard nerfs.
In other words. Killers always had to adapt to a new situations, while survivors really never had to adapt. They always use the same build and optimized the running in circles.
When it comes to Perks, yes. But thats the Devs, not releasing good Survivor Perks anymore. I rather prefer Killer Perks, because at least there is a chance to use them on some Killers, Survivor Perks are usually only 3 more Perks for completion again, which will almost never be touched.
When it comes to adapting to things...Eh. Killers are way louder when they need to adapt. Without any reason tbh, my games without Bloodlust were not different from the games I had with Bloodlust. I can say that quite sure for Killer, but not for Survivor, since I had some pretty strange Matchmaking yesterday evening (like myself as PC Survivor, Rank 1 together with 3 Rank 16 COnsole players against a Rank 11 Console Killer...almost all of my games were that strange that I at least got 2 low Rank Survivors and sometimes another Red Rank Survivor and Killer, so I cannot really say that Bloodlust makes any difference as Survivor, when I need to go against a Killer who is 10 Ranks below me).
They released good survivor perks.
Felix perks are great and more so the perks we get with the new survivor.
I really don't understand, why people are not using them more.
But maybe I'm the exception, because I don't run meta perks like SC, DS, DH, SB or Unbreakable.
That 1 second cooldown must have hit you really hard on Phead. They can almost blink once before they get hit now.
Ah #########. Here we go again.
C’mon with the BL thing already. Everyone pretty much knows, if you’re a killer and you reach BL2, you’ve already made a mistake.
For those players that maybe don’t mind losing and enjoy having only 1 or 2 chases a game...if you’re so reliant on BL, use PWYF instead. Stacks to this is much easier than getting BL, and 3 stacks is faster than BL3.
yes and it’s still a very good meta perk
I would like to see you catch me as a m1 killer in Crotus Prenn Asylum when i abuse the main building windows. There windows are still exceptionally strong and even with bloodlust you could waste TONS of killers time there, because as soon as he reached enough bloodlust you just used pallet and he is forced to break it. Problem is that this building is center of the map so almost anywhere the chase starts good survivors will start running towards it so "chase somebody else" is not always option
1) no it wasnt. it was an intentional nerf to the perk - they didnt need to test it, as they already had all the data they needed.
2) its still an experiment. the experiment isnt about whether BL should stay or go, thats already decided. its about whether now is a good time to get rid of it or not.
3) but thats the point of it: killers who can currently only hold their rank with BL are supposed to derank into a more friendly environment for them. one that allows them to play without struggeling every game, one where they meet people of their skill level and can have a good time instead of going against people who are better than them and who keep kicking their ace. Matchmaking is definitely the main issue here, i completely agree. one that i really hope is going to be fixed soon.
4) and i can give you a long list of survivor nerfs / killer buffs. again: they dont favor one side over the other. both get changed constantly, which usually leads to the community calling the devs "survivor sided" anytime a killer nerf goes through and "killer sided" anytime a survivor nerf goes through.
5) this ties in a lot with 3), but also try looking at it from the other side. imagine you play survivor and your skill level is way above the killers. imagine you outplay them hard and they just get faster and faster until all your mindgames have become obsolete and they just catch you because the game did the work for the killer - you dont deserve to be on that hook now, getting facecamped to death while watching your team opening the gates and leaving, thats just unfair.
so can we agree that once matchmaking is fixed and matches games fairly for both sides, aswell as the older maps being reworked to fight some of the loops that are unfair without it, BL isnt needed anymore?
3) is exactly what this experiment is for. they want to find out whether loops like that still exist and if they can deactivate BL now or if their maps need further balance changes first.
4) seeing how the game has developed over the years, i have to disagree. if they really preferred the survivor experience so much more than the killer experience, a lot of the later killer buffing patches would have never made it in. i agree that they have had some poor wording at times though, they could improve that a little xD
They started buffing killers late 2016 and early 2017 when player base was literally dying. I remember waiting with my friends for a game for 45 minutes and no game. Even as a solo survivor high rank wait times were sometimes ridiculous, killer queque were instant. Then they gave massive killer buffs to recover the killer playerbase and later removed a lot of the buffs slowly. At one point there was barely any pallets, which again got reverted few patches later.
maybe that was because pallets are kind of needed for survivors to be able to play the game?
their new policy is "have a lot of unsafe pallets around" - you wont have scenarios wherethere are only like 5 pallets on a map, but if the killer is good they can play around every pallet and achieve hits. there are only very few exceptions to this ("god pallets").
killers are not in a bad spot right now. not at all.
I know that, but i pointed it out to you that they nerfed survivors to save the game, not because they wanted to be "generous" to killers. If you watch all major changes they are often more cautious when they give survivor nerfs compared to killers. If you remember the change like changing flashlight and pallet saves with zero timing needed, this of course happened with free week when playerbase were araund 50k+ if i remember correctly, they simply wanted to attract new survivor players
As a killer I don't think that decision is because they are survivor sided, it's a decision that favors survivors, sure, but sometimes they also change things to favor killers as well. We have to acknowledge that. I don't think it is very constructive to go from that mindset even if they were "survivor sided".
I think it would be benefitial if they got rid of say, blood lust lvl 3 (or 2,3, or all), while they keep a close look on how the matches are faring. I think in this case the wrong decision would be to simply get rid of bloodlust after a quick test and not pay attention if the maps are really more ballanced as they said they are.
See, for instance, there are maps that never got the god windows of some main buildings (or god busses) that have a high survival rate. Many of those maps had no changes and some new like Midwitch have such a distance to cross it's not even fun. If they say bloodlust is not needed because there are a fair amount of maps that are survivor sided in the same way as there are the killer sided this is a wrong decision. First because of offerings, second because I don't think that claim is a true one and third because having maps that you are mostly decided to win or lose is already a bad design.
I'm going to be honest, I play a lot of killer and I think that would be a horrible change. There would be no mindgames or 'reading' anymore. There would only be survivors camping pallets which is boring for both sides.
Please. You think getting rid of Bloodlust is a favor to Survivors? This is potentially the best thing to happen to Killers (if they decide to do it) in a long time. Bloodlust trains new Killers to keep chasing the same Survivor for long periods of time, so that Bloodlust will help them close the gap. This is a BAD habit, and one that Killers eventually learn NOT to do. Bloodlust incentivizes baby Killers maintaining a pointless chase because they think it will pay off. In the meantime, the other Survivors are making bank in Generators.
In short, the sooner Bloodlust is gone, the sooner new Killers learn how to drop a chase and return to Generator pressure. The sooner Bloodlust is gone, the better... for KILLERS who are learning the game. I wish it had never been around when I started.
The Devs said about Ruin: This perk is used a lot and we have identified the following issues so we are going to rework Ruin.
The Devs said about BL: It was introduced fo reason X and might not be needed anymore, therefore we will start this experiment in order to better understand the effect Bloodlust has on the game in 2020.
They also said: "We would like to stress that this experiment is purely to gather data: No future plans for Bloodlust are set in stone at this time."
So no, Ruin and the BL test are not the same situation, there was no disclaimer for Ruin, the Devs basically said " We are going to change Ruin, deal with it", for BL it is more like: "We might change it, we need more data."
4 years of survivor nerfs...
4 years of survivor perk nerfs...
4 years of map nerfs...
4 years of killer buffs...
4 years of killer perk buffs...
4 years of giving killer aura perks and slow gen perks...
Over 2 years since a decent survivor perk came out...
Only months ago two busted killer perks came out that gives free wins...
Over 9 out of 10 matches is a bloodbath...
The devs are survivor sided alright.
If you think 70 percent of the map isnt mind gameable, especially with most killer powers lol well that's on you.
If a killer is doing that badly, he's going to lose anyways. The change just makes killers facing better survivors do even worse.
Yeah survivors should just be able to bully bad killers that were already losing (since they're using bloodlust) even more. /s
You can name survivor nerfs if you want, but killers have been nerfed far more.
Yep, now bad killers are just going to do worse when they are already losing. Maybe it would be different if matchmaking was balances, but it isn't.
Lol youre beyond hopeless.
Huh? Bad killers should be losing lol. Stop being bad. And as if matchmaking doesnt screw survs over constantly. I've lost 3 of my last games trying to carry all 3 of my team mates who do not know how to play the game. Killers get to abuse badly matched team mates ALL the time. Youre going to need to try harder if you wanna play the victim.
Me? No, dont even own him, but if its so insignificant why make the change other than hes too fun and too oppressive for poor widdle survivors
What is with people trying to guilt trip developers? Like have an actual argument, don't just chock it up to "oh they have a preference so of course they hate us :("
Breaking pallets hurts survivors.
Not breaking pallets hurts killer.
You are just a killer main that doesn't like breaking pallets.
This is a silly thread. They literally said its for 2 days and its an experiment. They're most likely gathering info to see how much work it would be to fix the bad loops and if its worth spending the time for it or just leaving it in.
Wrong, breaking unsafe pallets also hurts killers.
You don't need bloodlust to cut off unsafe pallets.
Nice try tho.
Nope.
Its not an infinite if the killer has a way to shorten it. You not knowing this is on you and if you want to become a better killer than you need to explore these things and gain the knowledge of when you should break these and when you shouldnt.
If a survivor is looping you around what seems like an infinite loop but theres a breakable wall in the loop, then common sense should tell you "hey i might want to break this so i can catch the survivor"
The devs cant base the game off how brand new survivors play the game or it would be to easy at higher ranks.
Every game you play has a learning curve and the basics of dbd are pretty simple to understand. If your struggling more than you feel you should then try watching some streamers or youtube videos and experiment with what you see.
I remember when i was learning the flashlight, i died so many times just trying to understand the timing and angles. After you try and try you will get better. Just takes time.
It may not be an infinite, but the walls act as pre dropped pallets that create an infinite unless the killer breaks them. Breakable walls only hurt killers, offering them no advantages.
are you going to write a guide that is given to all killer players? no your notion of "You not knowing this is on you" because there are other guides out there that litterally says "DO NOT BREAK THE BREAKABLE WALLS" you could MAKE an infinite for the survivors. so how is one to learn what is and isn't true? what walls to leave up and knock down? NO it is not on the player at this point. the devs said they were going to break the infinite loops, they did so and then they walled them right the ######### back up and blamo blood lust is needed once again. I litterally convinced someone about 1.5 years back to stay and continue to play (in end game chat) because he'd been looped soooo many times on infinites that he just was done with it. and to this day he's still in, doesn't play often but he plays and from time to time we chat and he's got a better attitude. but now there are a great many people that won't be able to even lend that helping hand to players like him because crossplay doesn't let chat happen 8 times out of 10 maybe 9 times out of 10.
so you may know these, but who's going to TEACH this to the new player? NO ONE... survivors aren't going to do so, they're just going to launch into the newbie killer "EZ! GGEZ! GGEZBB Killer!!!!!" and taunt the ######### out of them. It's not nice and you telling them they have to learn faster than they can before they get put out and quit. further reducing the available killers down the line! and streamers or youtubers are not going to always go out of their way to teach new players, unless something happens. I've been in several high level players chat and because I don't "FOLLOW" them I don't get to even type to them and I personally walk away, because right off that person doesn't want to talk to anyone that's not a simp for them within seconds, and if i can't talk to them I'm not going to follow them just to HOPE they go over what maps have infinite loops and what maps do not, how to recognize them and deal with them. You just don't give a ######### about anyone but yourself and that's why you say "You not knowing this is on you"
This is why you are wrong, and as you have no want to help it, why should your opinion even matter? you shift the burden onto the new player and you'll end up facing the same toxic crap killers (as those like you like to say) again and again since they are the only ones you can either beat or the only ones willing to stick it out.
These are plenty of guides on youtube on how to play various killers and different strats to run but those in all honesty are just opinions.
You learn from experimenting, one game before the match spend some time and go break all the walls then chase the survivors and see if areas that were a problem before are no longer an issue and vise versa if some areas that you were getting hits easy are now a problem because of the breakable door then you know in the future you should not break that one.
If your having trouble try playing survivor to see it from the other pov. Try moon walking and mind games to "outplay" survivors.
Im not trying to bash you or tell you to learn faster, im just saying its a learning curve and the more you get ran over the faster you learn.
Unfortunately i wish it was easier for new players on both sides but the game is how it is, have to adapt and overcome.
Learn from your mistakes and you will for sure get better. If you want some tips feel free to pm me and we can link up in a custom and i can give you some tips if you'd like.
you still don't get it do you? I never was able to learn the infinites with all those resources on youtube, streamers who don't talk to new player.. and this was BEFORE the breakable walls. I would love for you to distribute this tutorial that you obviously know exists (which i haven't found in 2.25 years) to Each and every player so they all have the best chance to play the game. the number of players that come to this forum is probably 10% of the players that play the game over all platforms. You know well that i didn't ask about tutorials about how to play each killer but where each of these infinite loops are and how to counter them. oh yea i'll break a chase to take 2-5 seconds to break a pallet or wall. oh wait the walls don't always make it obvious they are there or that they are creating an infinite. the developers decide to break infinite loops and both player and killer alike actually say good job! and then they go back and close them back up recreating them making it "optional" how is that breaking an infinite? you are just like the other survivors that expect everything to be given to you. a killer that is released broken, this actually is the second time this has happened, last one took 1.5 months to the mid chapter patch to be fixed. how long will this one be? there was also the mid chapter patch a while back that was released with the wrong information and it to months for the fixes to go in. if you're a survivor you have 10-15 second chance perks, if you are a killer you have about 5. and of those 10-15 perks they synergize, of the killer's 5 only 2 will synergize and survivors complain they are tooooooo op. gen times are atrocious, infinite loops are back after they were to have been eradicated (not just optional) second chance perks being used as weapons, disconnects are supposed to be disallowed but people cry they are required. no this is very much survivor sided. if you try to say you are a killer main i don't believe you because you don't want to help other killers out you wish to farm people out to learn from others how to play their killers but you don't want to help them learn where the infinite loops are so they know what to break. sure "experiement" great i love experimenting when i get screwed over each time and loose while not even knowing if what i tried was right or not because by the time i'm done setting up 3 gens are done. great advice dude.