Honestly, Ruin Undying needs a nerf
It's too strong. Be honest. It's actually too strong.
- The effects it has overshadows every single other killer perk and perk combo.
- It's carrying trash players through lobbies where the survivors simply just get unlucky with the totem spawns.
- It's overboard on good players and especially on good killers like nurse where you do not have time to do totems.
- It requires little skill to use (walking over to a gen is not skill).
- It's extremely inconsistent to counter and too difficult to counter at times.
- It's good on literally everyone.
- It's quite annoying (not a reason why it's strong or needs a nerf, just a personal opinion of mine as slowdown builds are even stronger now with this combo).
Compare this to the Pop Corrupt meta we just had which IMO is a healthy meta combo:
- Does not overshadow every perk and perk combo.
- Took skill to capitalise on so trash players weren't carried by it.
- A bit overboard on strong killers, but never felt as oppressive as Ruin.
- Has a consistent counter depending on teammates skill.
- Good on all killers, but some did not benefit from it well enough in order for it to be used over other perks.
- A bit annoying depending on your preferences.
I know this post is going to be flamed, I just wanted to put this out there as I truly hate Ruin Undying with an absolute passion and its killing my want to play survivor. To see it constantly pushed as a healthy perk combo disappoints me as it has many glaring issues on both sides that for some reason people don't seem to acknowledge.
More importantly, if the game actually starts getting balanced at it's core (maps are fixed, gens are balanced, etc) then if ruin undying is still here then it will dominate every lobby and I have no doubts about that.
(Also yes, DS is an issue, it's just that you see 100x more Ruin Undying killers than you do 4 man DS UB squads, so don't think I don't want that nerfed too. K thanks).
Comments
And what exactly do you do without ruin and undying? Exactly relying on BBQ only.
I don't want to use the "coordinated Team"-argument again, but it simply fits.
Corrupt is below average on nurse, just fyi.
It goes both ways.
The root of every discussion on this forum, ever.
The primary effect of undying is good as it is. Doing this second objective is fine and it does add an interesting mechanic to the game. The aura reveal is what makes it a huge crutch in most games:
1) 6 seconds of aura reveal for a survivor just passing by are absolutely insane, it's as long as I'm all ears which has the conditions of fast vaulting and being within 48 meters while still having a 40 seconds cooldown, and longer than bbq which requires you to hook a survivor, and still has a range. Here you just need to walk by a totem and you're revealed, with no cooldown or no other condition.
2) the overall combo is insanely oppressive for soloqueue, especially on stronger killers, who can easily drop chase on someone to protect their totem, while still applying a strong pressure
3) Makes Thrill of the hunt completely useless because yo uget its effect compoletely for free while getting also another effecct
Aura reveal NEEDS TO GO
Nah, it's really not, unless the team decides to hide for 2 whole minutes which is not gonna happen in most of the games. And by most, I'd really dare to say 99% of the games this is not gonna happen. Casual play is not a tournament, people want to have fun, not tryhard every single game and crouch on the corner of the map until corrupt is gone. Paired it with ruin undying on nurse, you just need to apply pressure on 4 gens instead of 7 making the survivors get almost to no progress, and you'd be a hypocrite to say it's not extremely easy on most parties.
And again, the coordinated team argument too is bs, because it won't happen on most of the games.
Also I mean what, once you get the first down, the information and non-information provided by bbq is already enough to start the snowballing game lol
The problem originates from bad solo queue players, players need to know in a similar for of PEMDAS how theres an order to how the map should be handled, i understand that there is a luck based aspect which is random teamates. Someone are bad but others are good, killers have the same thing. If 4 people arent on the same page, then it causes the (killers are op because my TEAM cant keep up). The best a survivor can do is make the best of the current situation, even if it means letting a survivor die to get an upper hand. Its apart of the game just overlooked
The main issue is too tier killers are running this build like Freddy, which becomes a little too strong. Now on low tier killers like Wraith I think it's great and doesn't come off as too strong, but how do you balance it so it's not too strong for top tier killers but not too weak for low tier killers? It's definitely a meta now though, basically everyone is using it. I do see them changing the perk on the future but I don't know if it will be changed anytime soon.
Only nerf it needs is too remove auras... it already gives hexs a second/third/fourth chance potentially.
Im usually completely baffled by their perk/add on balancing strats lol
Well,if this combo just "might" appear then it seems like it isn't used every single game like some people pretend it does,because i can say that i've seen this combo only a handful of times on high rank.
Also,you aren't really forced to use perks like detectives hunch or small game.If the map isn't an indoor map then it's rather easy to learn the different totem spots
I am seeing it very often (like almost every game) at high rank in EU, but I ain't complaining.
So ruin is always controversial no matter what huh?
Do totems you idiot, stop being a crybaby survivor, I play bothsides but more survivors, its not op
Undying does not need a nerf whatsoever. The game is survivor sided. Nerfing the perk will make it even more survivor sided and the perk is fine. Cleanse totems. It's as easy as that. If u get lucky and find undying straight away. Good on ya. But every dull totem u see, cleanse it. And if the killer chases u. I'm sure your teammate will be able to cleanse them otherwise. U need to learn how to play against the perk. Dont just get dominated by the perk and then complain. Honestly. Entitled survivors are so annoying. U lot complain about everything if nothing goes your way!
I do like this idea, but having the totem respawn once means that you'll have to cleanse two totems, which is the worst-case scenario for Undying at the moment (Undying is cleansed first, and then the totem that it's supposed to be protecting). This change should allow a totem to be brought back twice instead of once.
killers are giving up 2 perk slots to counter broken mechanics.. survivors can't give up 1 perk for a secondary objective?
YES PREACH
Are you freaking kidding? Look how many boosted potatoes are in red ranks on the survivor side, they get carried by 2nd chance perk after 2nd chance perk. They have little to no understanding from the game, have no clue how to loop, how to safe unhook or overall just garbage decision making. These survivors are there due to a stupid meta that has been like that for years and a completely broken ranking system. Ruin + Undying has clear counterplay which is do bones, remind me again to the counterplay for ds/ub. Oh right there is none.
Nurse and ruin + undying, okay champ. You know the developers nerfed her mobility significantly, she is not good at protecting totems at all due to the reduced mobility, as long as the totems are up it is nice but in the end you rely on the survivors being so garbage that they do not do the totems. Oh and please forgive me i will take the word of someone with over 30k blink attacks over yours.
Hex perks are supposed to be strong because they can be disabled afterwards the killer has only 2 more perks. The build can be completely ruined ( see what i did there?) within a minute. But hey let's cry for nerfs on perks because people refuse to do totems, are not able to when there are even perks for survivors to find totems pretty fast. There is just no excuse to cry about totems.
You are simply wrong, the mobility of nurse has been nerfed significantly. She is unable to defend totems, good survivors cleanse the totems in a minute or two and you are left with 2 perks. BBQ has multiple counters to it even without perks. Your snowball can be stopped when people do not give you free info, quite simple.
It doesn't need a Nerf; jeez you people are needy. For the longest time Killers were just told pressure those Generators! Well, Undying+Ruin doesn't do squat unless the Killer is pressuring those Generators. You got your wish. Now it is the Survivors (and I play one too) to get the lecture, "do the Bones." That is all you have to do. I've played against plenty of Survivors who have managed to deal with the situation just fine. Why don't you spend the time you waste trying to OUT OF GAME get the Hex removed, playing and practicing so you can just remove it in the game.
TBH the issue with ruin undying isn't when it's ran on trapper or Mikey or someone like them, you hit the nail right on the head when you cited that it's issue is when it's ran on nurse/billy/blight/Freddy/Oni. That's when it really cranks up to 11.
That said, I fear it becoming useless to be honest if it were nerfed. I honestly think the only way to change it while keeping it strong and not dumpstering it would be to make undying itself not a totem, but just a perk with a charge count and have it only migrate a lot totem once. The potential for it to do it multiple times is what makes it so problematic when paired with tinkerer ruin and a map crossing killer.
I don't begrudge or look down on anyone running it, it's a vs game, meta stands for most effective tactic available. I am however disappointed in the devs for not taking action on it as soon as it presented as an issue however. Running it on any killer really feels like it puts the game into autopilot for me tbh.
Nice joke.
Yes. Old ruin was really healthy for this game. It kept good survivors at high ranks and provided decent slowdown for people who can't hit greats.
No the perk just released to counter him needs a nerf
I think everyone has said all of what had to be said so I just wanna add that it's kinda funny how your icon was DS when the discussion started and as soon as people started calling out your insane survivor main bias, you swap to Deathslinger.
Yeah, let's nerf killer even more! /S
Nah, I'm not.
Yes you are, not even saying that especially on nurse you will get the least out of the aura reading from undying because chances are you will be busy looking at the floor due to fatigue. Good counterpoints that you have made.
I think it's fine, killers can now go against higher ranks and can't complain that swf are too good. Another thing is soul guard, in a way its a great buff for that as we can now use the small writing stating we can pick our selves up without no mither, all the time when there is a hex. Unbreakable with that and you have a great counter to slugging. Also just bring inner strength, that way ur hunting for totems anyway. It's just like the old ruin when everyone used to look for it.
I didn't give an in depth answer because you're the one that didn't give actual counterpoints.
Nurse's map control was affevted only for those enormous maps where it takes half an hour to move around: mothers dwelling, rotten fields and perhaps groaning storehouse. The rest left her basically unaffected (oh wow, 3 seconds wait on a blink recharge, HUGE time on a 15 seconds cleansing time).
As I said already, undying gives 6 seconds of aura reveal. Even when being affected by the longest possible fatigue (2 or 3 blinks + missed attack), you'd still have 2.5 seconds of information on what a survivor is doing, and that provided that the aura is revealed just as you enter fatigue. BBQ is valuable also for the non information it gives, regardless of the counters. And if people are not giving you free info, then you're not applying enough pressure, so you're just playing badly. Simple as that.
I gave actual counterpoints, you just make hogwash exaggerations and no real points.
Do you really want to argue that you missed an attack on a survivor go into fatigue and are not busy to find the survivor again, land the next blink attack? The old days of "BBQ -> aura read -> travel map" are long gone for nurse. Either you missed the changes or you have no clue what you talk about but it is one of the reasons why you have to apply pressure in diffrent ways as nurse, slugging for example and be careful as to where you hook survivors.
Yes it gives 6 seconds but chances are you already focused on something else, probably blinking and landing the blinks correctly with either prediction or reaction, in any case, maybe feel free to show me your sick nurse skills? I mean props to you that you can blink, chain blink and keep an eye in 360° on potential aura reveals, down the survivor and defend the totem but I can't and prefer to have 4 perks instead of 2 since the build can be countered just by doing bones. But you can also show me the amount of your blink attacks just to have a better understanding.
No, cannot see a point here. It may be annoying for you, maybe you are not able to ignore the effects, but that is the whole point of having perks on the game: to have an effect on the gameplay.
You talk about bad players, yet you do not define what bad players are, especially interesting that would be when we think about the variables in a match.
I mean, survivors get rescued in front of my face or run directly into my arms afterwards, then they call it tunneling for whatever simple checkbox reasons they have. Thus, I see no reason to trust your vague statements.
If they nerf undying because of cry babies like you. I will just go back to camping and tunnelling to ruin your game.
Not any more than DS Unbreakable needs a nerf.
Honestly the only time it's an issue on Nurse is when she combos undying with retribution, haunted and thrill or something to that effect; infinite aura reading. Seen it work wonders and it's incredibly obnoxious.
Honestly... Quentin, Tapp, and Jeff all need nerfs. They're all too OP, they have only Meta perks, and everyone plays as them. They need to be weak like Nea, Meg, Claudette, and Feng.
Including the fact that you can literally destroy this combo in the first minute of the trial - I actually don't see any problem with it.
If we are nerfing Ruin/Undying combo, then let's nerf Decisive/Unbreakable combo too. What kind of survivor-siding is this?
I think we can all agree that the game is completely unbalanced. The generators get popped too fast, survivor perks get slight nerfs when killers get the hard nerfs to perks that are meant to make survivors adapt because that is the point of being a survivor, it shouldn't be a walk in the park. As someone who plays both sides sees how survivor heavy the devs are and that's why nothing changes, and that's exactly why survivor mains need to stop whining for things to get nerfed and just adapt and overcome. If tom hanks can survive on an island with a volleyball and scarce resources, I'm pretty sure people can get better at playing a game.
yeah without aura showing this perk would be not so broken imo
If there was a way to make Ruin begin with zero tokens and gain from there to create the effect, I think that could be effective.
Oh yeah. Let's nerf a perk, which is already nerfed. It wasn't butchered enough, was it?
Half of the time you don't even see those auras if survivors aren't numbnuts. It's not like killers know when to look at the totems exactly. Plus, what would be the point of Undying without a combo then? This is a PERK. Not an exclusive addon for Ruin.
With this combo ruin can finally be a mid-game (late-game if your are lucky) perk. Two perk slot to achieve one objectif and you have to work for it by pressuring survivors, i mean it's not like the old ruin.
I'm not saying nerf it, I'm saying make it token based so that if it's broken and transferred by Undying, then it will lose strength, just like Devour and Third Seal. And it was awfully OP before, you had to be a braindead killer to think that perk was fair beforehand.
I think it's fine. Killers need something against gen rush and this is perfect. As solo survivor I don't mind doing bones first before gens.
I think it would be more fair if the aura reading only starts when a totem is being cleansed...not when you are simply walking by a totem
We can also just delete all Hex perks
Deal?
I feel like you don't really understand the meaning of a word "nerf". Giving it tokens makes it a non-permanent perk, which makes it not only weaker, but sometimes even completely useless. Hence - this poorly thought out thing you propose IS a nerf.
Yeah. It was OP. Not awfully, because you still could destroy it very fast and easy, but OP. Just like any Hex should be. "High value - high risk" is the main rule of Hexes if you didn't know, dude. This is why some Hexes are considered bad - because they don't give high value. And if Ruin gets the nerf you are asking for - it will become one of those "bad Hexes", because it'll be completely useless without Undying.
Braindead are the people, who think that hitting skillchecks and breaking totems is incredibly hard thing to do. Old Ruin did its job even if it was broken early. Now New Ruin does its job, if used with Undying. And what do people, who can't play around totems, want? Nerf it of course.
I see more Killer perk variety in 3 Games as survivor than Survivor Perk variety in 10 Games as Killer.
"People want to have fun, not tryhard every single game" Suvivors gen rushing all time. Only meta perks and 4xItems with addons. Sure no tryharding.
i did not even say ANYTHING about what the tokens would do and you called it a nerf. I was thinking it would start a little weak, but grow to be stronger than it is now. You didn't know a single thing about what it would be and you called it a nerf. Just stop, I won't even care to read the rest of your comment as you clearly didn't care enough to process mine. Glhf.
-Do bones. The Perks go away if you do bones.
-Do gens. Ruin physically cannot take effect if you are on a gen.
You do know the best counter to this? Focus gens down. Secondly. Pop is useless on this combo so be thankful. Also I can think of worse. Devour and undying.
Ruin won't stop decent survivors who focus gens and ignore ruin. If it was old ruin and undying, I'd agree. But new ruin is just an inconvenience. Not a real threat.
Undying makes noed useless as most survivors end up cleansing all totems. Noed is much more of a cruch than ruin and undying. At least this you need two perk slots todo it. Noed is a one slot cruch.