So.. pop is nerfed because killers are too good?
Well, shouldn't killer be rewarded for more if he is capable of downing people fast? Isn't that survivor's fault for getting downed within the duration of pop? Isn't it the same as DS, where killers are punished for being too good?
Not to mention there isn't always a gen nearby that has some progress to be regressed.
I honestly don't understand the reason behind it.
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Is that so you can hide as ghostface, let him touch a gen and then tunnel scott free? I don't think a perk should deactivate for doing the objective.
Then maybe you shouldn't run straight next to a generator next to you once you got unhooked and maybe heal first.. crazy i know. Survivors should never feel completely safe and DS gives just that. I've been a survivor main for over a year and it's definitely the strongest perk there is
Im sorry all, I really am im trying not to fall into the whole "DeVs HaTe KiLlErS" mentality but..... When these are their excuses for nerfing meta perks, when this is the constant for the team I reeeeaaallllyyyy dont have much to fall back on. It honestly seems like survivors are supposed to have fun while killers are expected to "carry" the fun for the survivors.
Maybe I should use the argument "killers should never always feel entitled for a down"
DS is stronger than DH, that can be used multiple times? I think you just like to tunnel, sorry a perk helps with that.
Well it's funny because my suggestion actually helped to make DS stronger against tunneling. You obviously aren't tunneled if you can repair generators 😂😂 If you fear that ghost face is lurking around the corner find a safe spot to heal or repair the generator with LOS. Using brains is allowed ya know and not being carried with just perks
Most of the time I saw killers tunneling and crying about DS after that... As killer, I had sometimes 4 DS users but I never take one DS in my games, I can't understand the problem of this perk. If I have a survivor abusing with the perk, it's ez for me to down this survivor.
Before changing DS, something should be done for tunnelers and campers. I don't play this perk at all, but if this perk is going to be nerfed : I will stop playing this game. BTW : No obsession in a game = free tunnel.
Why are people drawing comparisons to DS & PGTW? They are nothing alike, just because they happen to have the same timer doesn’t mean that both have to be nerfed at the same time. It’s the typical “us vs them” mentality.
And of course, no other or the same Devs are responding because they know how much they are in the wrong, but slowly n surely, they are coming up with another bs statement or reason
Or they will simply just lock this thread and say later on "We found no criticism for DS"
Yeah sure, let’s just nerf DS to 25/35/45s timer instead. Ez tunnels.
I thought this was about Pop and not DS.
Okay, so imagine this. Someone gets unhooked and their savior hides. DS guy comes sprinting at you because that's what they do. You down her after 30 seconds because she had BT. You can't hook her now because DS. You can't slug her because Unbreakable. You just wasted 45 seconds doing nothing because her perks don't allow you to do anything.
I can't imagine, cuz I always find another survivor thanks to chili. So I never take a BT or a DS in my games. If you know you are wasting times to chase the unhooked survivor. Why are you not looking around the hook for the savior ?
I can't understand. Are you playing survivor ? Have you fun by being hooked two or three times in a row ? I don't think. Let players play a game and play it. Stop trash talking the gameplay of someone if you're doing mistakes.
I honestly feel that DS should be altered a little differently than a time reduction. 60s is fine, it prevents tunneling. The problem being that the person then has immunity for 60s from basically any contact, they're free to do their gens/heal teammates etc without the threat of being downed and picked up.
As others have suggested, reducing the DS timer doesn't seem to be the solution for DS, perhaps just deactivate DS if the survivor begins any interactions such as healing others/repairing generators. DS should be there to get some distance from the killer and act as a deterrent, not 60s of free invulnerability.
Often times people will just target the person they see moving if there's only one visual target. To simply let a person go in -hopes- you find someone else is counterproductive because then you have the chance of losing both of them.
I understand it may not be fun to be downed twice in a row, but fun aside, just ignoring a target when it's your only available target isn't logical. A DS target is better than no target at all.
This would be fine IF there was enough time to complete 12 chases. There's not. The average rank 1 game lasts 8 minutes if you don't kill someone off fast. A chase lasts about 40 seconds if you play it optimally. 10 seconds for the first hit, 20 seconds to catch up (that is how much time it takes for killers to catch up if the survivor just holds W), 10 seconds for the down. Then off to the next survivor. If you play perfectly you get 8 chases by the time the last gen is done against decent survivors. If you always go for the Chili target you will end up not tunnelling anyone so after 8 hooks, nobody is dead. You absolutely NEED to slug and tunnel to a degree to delay gens. It is a requirement for every killer, except for god tier Nurses and Spirits. I am wondering if you're actually playing killer versus survivors with 4k+ hours if you think going after the BBQ is the right way to play and win.
Well it could be argued that the misplay was on the Survivors side here. First the people that deliberately reveal themselves to BBQ and the troll that hides after unhooking a teammate.
In many matches it goes like this: You hook a Survivor. You move away to check the nearest gens. You may find someone, or you don´t. Do not expect the Killer to waste 40 seconds to traverse the map if someone is working on a gen in a far corner, that would just be stupid.
So now the Survivor got unhooked. You move back to check, but the savior hides and the poor guy that got basically farmed is hard not to notice. Unfortunately this happens quite a lot. What do you do? Ignore him and throw the game by spending a lot of time looking for someone that isn´t working on a gen? come on man.
We are clearly not playing the same game.
RIP Decisive Strike. Dev screwed up with the response to this post.
Hope they figure out some sort of built-in anti-tunneling system when DS is now inevitably nerfed to 45 seconds or lower.
Just continued easy-mode for killer. Oh well.
Where did I say that I will traverse the map to check a gen in a far corner ? You are creating some stupid situations. If you enjoy playing this game by tryharding to get 4K, it's your choice. Not mine. I have 0 problem with DS and BT and I can enjoy playing this game as killer.
Seems it´s not me who likes to make assumptions here. You DID inf act mention that you find other survivors on BBQ, so....yeah it doesn´t seem you´re intreested in having a reasonable argument but just spew some BS. Have a good one buddy
You have no argument, clearly. I said I'm using chili indeed. But if the survivor is doing a gen in a corner, it's a mistake for survivors. It depends of many situations and the number of survivors in the game. You are creating a SPECIFIC situation with chili. I'm not talking about a specific situation, because we can talk about MANY specifics situations if you want, no problem !
The counter-argument: the killer should use his brains and not try to pickup someone that recently got unhooked.
I haven't seen your suggestions but every one I see has a million deactivation conditions, which is unfair. It just makes a niche perk even weaker. They could re-buff it to where it used to be so killers can appreciate it the way it is now. If it was truly decisive then it would be a 1-time use at any time, not on a timer like it is now.
If I hook 2 other people and find the guy on a gen i didnt tunnel and i shouldnt be punished for doing well. Old mom did this and it was HORRIBLE.
Let me approach this a different way; so you think it is OK for killers to have intense slow-down perks (punishing survivors) with oppressive loadouts but a survivor can't have an anti-momentum perk that can even be countered by chasing someone else?
In My scenario i chased and downed 2 people! And no they shouldnt because the devs already said their looking at fixing all slowdown perks. Without slowdown a single ds could cost 3 gens by itself.
DS is from the most bought DLC, since 80% of the playerbase are survivors, it's obvious why they won't adress the issue...
Then it is your fault if you got hit with DS. You picked them up, you deserve to be slowed down, the perk is actually benefiting the survivor.
I read one suggestion which was good. The timer should pause once you start kicking a gen, so if you kick it at 44 seconds you can still get the effect.
This would at least be a little something but I'm guessing killers won't even get that. So really it's like 43 seconds you get to use it.
I'll just run doc and force a 3 gen madness with PGTW then.
Remind me of the time a DS user ran into a locker when I was trapper. It was his fault he got trap In there then.
hmm how about doing something USEFUL ? for example making a system to punish killers that camp your face at the hook
Behaviour work on the game reminds me of going to a doctor with a pain in the leg and get a treatment for a pain in the arm that you never had...
Freddy has entered the room...
The whataboutism in this thread is amazing. All started by Scott, the guy who goes on about whataboutisms lol. And of course, the snarky hag makes a snarky comment
But they're alright if, under a similar circumstance, you down Two survivors who were unhooked recently.
You down Both of them, pick up one, Decisive Strike. Then that guy runs away, so you pick up the other. Decisive Strike.
How fun and fair 🙄
Whataboutism at it's finest. Whataboutism is so disingenuous. If DS had it's timer reduced to 45 seconds would you have been asking to have Pop's timer reduced? Of course not.
Literally 99% of the time I use Pop its either right after I hook someone or I use it and still have 30 seconds on it. Sometimes I even don't use it at all because taking the chase is the better decision.
This nerf doesn't change that. It does change scenarios where killers were getting chain pops which almost always forces the game to a defeat in uncoordinated teams. Playing solo is already frustrating enough and Pop is one of those perks that further punishes you personally in solo queue for lower performing teammates. Why wouldn't I run a sweaty 4 man every game with people I know are decent when the other side is constantly getting rewarded for scenarios that aren't my fault???
It's a perk that gives you a massive reward for simply doing your job, now there's slightly more risk. It hardly even a nerf but people are so reliant on running the same perks every game they can't handle a tiny hair of a change.
Again, its not about the nerf itself, its about BHVR nerfing pop over DS.
That is very obvious since you don't seem to know the first thing about how to play Killer against experienced survivors.
I don’t blame the devs for not commenting further.
They’ll get nowhere justifying their actions as it’s clear what side the majority of this forum is buttered on.
Hell, people still think Ruin was nerfed because of its high usage rate despite the devs having 3 reasons for its change. People just twist what the devs say and just use it against them.
What you are suggesting is that you are fine with punishing the killer for doing well.
What you are defending is that survivors should be rewarded for playing poorly.
You don't see how skewed your perspective is?
Like repairing 75% of a generator and still being able to use DS?
Rofl no way. Is it actually THAT high? if that's the case they will never dare to change DS as it will hurt their money
Isn't that part of being a Killer? You are literally going against 4 other people. If you are a Killer aren't "doing other things" you are going to lose. But perhaps that is the goal here.
You have posted in the past, complaints about killer has to require skill. Tell me what skill does ds require? Pgtw needs to be earned from a killer by winning a chase, downing and hooking a survivor. DS on the other hand rewards a survivor with immunity from the killer because the survivor fails at a chase.
See how broken this ######### is?
Sadly yes. I'm also a believer that they nerfed Pop to increase Ruin + Undying usage to motivate people buying the new DLC, since the mos of the killers that used Pop were killers with no gen pressure. But I can't say something like this without knowing what goes through the devs's minds.
Some chases don’t last close to 60s. So by the time you down another survivor you’ll probably still get to use your previous PGTW and then hook & use it again. Sort of creates a snowballing effect against generator repairs.
Their intention was to probably reduce the potential constant chain of PGTW.
No, you are picking sides. How does the survivor control who the killer chases? If the killer is hooking survivors so fast then anti-momentum is a good thing to give the survivors hope, as in I understand that is what the entity feeds on. You are so concerned in playing the game on a tournament level that you are forgetting what the game is all about. I've witnessed the bloodbaths with my eyes and survivors shouldn't need thousands of hours with discord to compete against what killers can bring into the match.
Going down in a dead zone with no pallets because of being tunneled is not playing poorly.
And that’s more typical survivor entitlement a killer should not have to wait 60 seconds to kill you if they outplayed you
Tunneling does not happen as much as you think it does you are not being tunneled you are just a weak link play better and you won’t be chased as often or caught
Lastly it’s not whataboutism if it’s something that’s actually happening and no one has control over besides the devs
If pop is being changed for being active while being in a chase then gets used mid chase why is ds allowed to be used while on a generator. Don’t try and give any bs reason to how you are doing gens and being tunneled now it’s not possible.
Gonna also prove a point to why ds needs changed 1. It’s works as anti momentum perk at the moment when it’s supposed to be an anti tunnel perk so it’s not doing it’s job 2. If you try and say it’s not or shouldn’t be anti tunnel so should stay the same you just proved why it needs change anti momentum perks do not need to be a thing. That is why MoM got nerfed.
Any other questions I can answer for you?
this I made, might be the only good solution to to changing DS to ACTUALLY making it close to a true anti tunnel perk
Numbers are just numbers, and for DS which is and has been always a badly design perk for how this game works, can't simply be balanced by changing the numbers, that's why its been said time from time, but devs never listen, DS needs a full rework because everything they done so far to DS made it further away from actually from being an anti tunnel perk and more and more of a 2nd chance/clutch perk.
My idea may prove to be the best solution to DS, but knowing how probably 70-80% of dbd's player base is survivors, this will get shutdown by survivor mains or shadowed by BHVR
He’s right. If survivors are struggling anti-momentum is a good thing.
I used to play games like Rainbow Six Siege. When the other team was on a roll and all your team was dying you were just up turd-creek without a paddle. Now though I see that the game was poorly balanced, it should have handed me something to kill their momentum and get me out of that situation with no skill required.
BHVR is ahead of the game it seems when it comes to game balance. For years I thought DBD was doing it wrong but no it turns out every other game has it wrong.
lmao
that is the exact definition of playing poorly, why are you even there? having trouble to memorize where you have to go or what? the bloodbaths xD i like how you completely dodge the question and do not answer what skill ds actually requires because the answer is none. i am not picking sides i am just stating the obvious, pgtw gets nerfed while it at least required you to do something as killer which can really be difficult if a person is good. however ds on the other hand while being the stronger perk just gives you free immunity and rewarding to fail the chase.... it is literally unbalanced, when you can not agree to that or even see that than my dude all your objective game sense has gone down the drain