So.. pop is nerfed because killers are too good?
Well, shouldn't killer be rewarded for more if he is capable of downing people fast? Isn't that survivor's fault for getting downed within the duration of pop? Isn't it the same as DS, where killers are punished for being too good?
Not to mention there isn't always a gen nearby that has some progress to be regressed.
I honestly don't understand the reason behind it.
Comments
you are getting paid for this man....
come on, disappointing
>ds pfp
OH SO LIKE DS
he has a point
Careful, Coconut. You're going to cause people who hate you for being right to become confused whether or not hey should hate you or love you for being right.
lets look at this line for a second:
"If the killer is hooking survivors so fast then anti-momentum is a good thing to give the survivors hope"
sure, I think you'll find that killers are all for games lasting longer. while we're at it, can we make gens take longer if they get done too quickly?
"Buh the other side" is not a point. Killer and survivor are two completely separate games and should not be compared in such a basic fashion.
This has to be the most contradictory thing I´ve read in 2020. You just described the choice and said there is no choice.
Hilarious 😂
I use Pop quiet often as a killer and I agree with the nerf.
Next.
are you joking? the only ones this will affect is the already weak killers, not to mention this thought process but no Ds nerf?
This is off the top of my head.
KILLER
Spies From The Shadows had it's radius buffed for a bit, then nerfed back down. (Shame because I thought it went from "Bad" to "pretty good" during that period, as a neat counterpart to Whispers)
Enduring was changed several times and now ONLY affects pallet stuns, not wiggle outs, DS's, or Head Ons. (Although the stun reduction was buffed a bit IIRC)
NOED was made a hex rather than a timed thing.
Ruin was reworked, lost most of it's effectiveness.
Not so much a big nerf but Unnerving Presence no longer affects Decisive Strike skillchecks IIRC nor does it it affect jigsaw boxes.
Unrelenting used to reduce the cooldown from attacks that did hit, was changed because of people comboing it with the old STBFL for the machine gun build.
Dying Light was reworked, like Ruin it lost most of it's effectiveness.
Remember Me had the effect halfed IIRC because "What if the killer gets max stacks, kills everyone, and closes hatch"
Gearhead and Hangman's Trick was nerfed from the PTB.
Iron Grasp had it's effect SEVERELY nerfed. OG Iron Grasp was back when survivors could perma-break hooks though so it evens out.
iron Maiden was nerfed so it doesn't affect pulling people out of lockers.
Surveilience was recently nerfed so generators no longer stay white when fully regressed.
I'm sure there's more.
SURVIVORS
Self-Care was nerfed.
DS was reworked (Still remains a bit of a problem.)
Mettle Of Man was gutted. (OG MoM was more busted than old DS)
Balanced Landing doesn't reduce staggering from falls when exhausted anymore.
Borrowed Time no longer affects the unhooker.
Leader and Prove Thyself lost a little bit of effectiveness and leader no longer affects gen speeds.
Sabo was reworked several times. (I remember the days when it could perma-break hooks)
Exhaustion perks in general were nerfed since exhaustion doesn't recover when running anymore.
Object of Obsession (And general killer aura reading perks) were nerfed somewhat by the undetectable status effect.
I think overall the nerf "Amount" is around the same, but the killer nerfs often feel like they hit things that didn't need nerfing
Since when does any of these perks win survivors games?
Dead hard? A perk killers can easily wait out and counter
SB? A perk survivors use to gain some distance and can't use it again unless they get unhooked or standing still for 40seconds assuming the killer gave up on them which is the killer fault or he lost them
DS? DS doesnt win you games lol if your team is ######### your not winning, if your not getting gens done your not winning and if the killer is pressuring you well then ds isn't gonna magically make all 5 gens pop
Unbreakable? Lol really a perk that only comes in handy when your slugged and can only be used once HAHAHAHA I barely see this perk in red ranks because killers dont slug like that
Adrenaline? A perk that works in 2 sistuations, when all gens are done and by then the survivor have won or hatched closed which means the killer has won
BT? THIS is a fair ass perk that stops some killers from legit tunneling you off hook and it can be countered by waiting it out
On the whole DS vs Pop timing thing.
As survivor, I can go through multiple matches without ever having the opportunity to use DS.
As killer, if I brought Pop then I'm using Pop... multiple times.
ENDGAME DS WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION. ENDGAME BT WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION. WELL TIMED SPRINT BURST WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION. DEAD HARD TO PALLET/WINDOW WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION. Do I need to go on
You know there's this other gen regress perk that everyone has seem to forgotten about. Surge. Why not buff it so it triggers on any attack instead of just basics? That'd be a nice change and it might incentivize more people to run it. Nerfing pop is just gonna make more people use ruin/undying and if they nerf that....well they'll just go back to using pop or continue using ruin/undying anyway.
Ok but what if you are getting tunneled with a mori? Locker DS is the only way of countering a mori, to an extent.
roast of the century
Seriously on this one, I played a match as Legion on Dead Dawg's Saloon, hooked a Claudette and she got unhooked almost immediately. I spent forever chasing two others, got them taken down finally and hooked, found her again and downed her as she opened the exit door in the end game. I picked her up and she still D-Striked me after all that. If they say Pop has too long a time, then so does D-Strike.
I hate to say this, but I agree. Regardless of which side you main, BVRH's still a corporation and they're in it to make money. You could see it with the horrid free to pay mechanics in a game that cost money and the battle pass.
I hate to engage in the Us Vs Them or even contribute but...killers are the only side that literally play with a rulebook🙃
Except you make it sound like you dont play red ranks.
Dead hard is used for distance by good players. There is no baiting it out because people use it ahead of you to give them enough distance to make a window/pallet safely. Its only used in the open as a last resort or if you’re chasing a rank 10 potato.
Sprint burst extends a chase by at least 20 seconds with zero skill required. I see people who cant loop very well at all but they can extend a chase just by using sprint burst hence outplayed by perks.
killers dont slug at red ranks? Lol are you kidding? Watch any good player and they slug here and there because its necessary against good teams.
You try to downplay all these perks yet you see many good players with 5k+ hours being “outplayed” by them. its easy to dismiss them one by one but in practise it goes something like this..
There are so many situations where it feels like you’re going up against perks rather than people. Even people like Otz have commented on this so how you can say it doesn’t exist is beyond me.
It depends on the nerfs themselves really, but I think people are mostly annoyed at the justifications. I myself don't give a flying crap which perk people use, I just want the developers to have a solid foundation that make it to where the tools we're given provides creative and dynamic ways to play the game without being pigeon holed to certain tactics.
I would say play more and get a feel of the game then form your conclusion from that, that's what I did. I hope that helps
You can can still quit the game and post here. Unless there's a killswitch that ends your membership when you quit the game, I don't really understand where you're getting at. I haven't played for months until now but during my absence I still viewed the forums.
That's why most people are calling for it to simply be added back as a built-in to prevent killers tunneling a survivor for 15 seconds after they come off the hook. Killers complained about OG Decisive, so it was made a pay-to-play perk. Now that survivors have 60 seconds (typically, if I don't suck in chases, I never get to use it anyway), it's still a problem to killers. Yes, survivors are using the perk offensively. Most killers can typically determine that, particularly in red ranks, but the difference between Pop and DS will always be the fact that DS can only be used ONCE. Pop can be chained. Ds still poses a risk, since most killers will just slug anyway. Slugging a survivor is actually mroe time-consuming to other players than hooking them anyway, because it takes a bit to be able to be picked up, and if the killer is paying attention, they can go smack them back down, thereby keeping them useless. Notice how, whenever killers are losing matches, they simply resort to slugging everyone. I would be absolutely fine with DS going back to 15 seconds after coming off a hook, but for every hook. If killers get the choice to camp hooks or tunnel, then yes, survivors should get the choice to use a perk that counters that. Asking that killers be able to do that, AS WELL AS removing any survivor counters isn't cool.
Anybody who argues that the counter is for other survivors to work on gens fails to understand that, because of the ranking system, it isn't just about the team's performance, but it's about your own. Getting caught once shouldn't be a game over for you as the player. Because of the ranking system, survivors now require perks that benefit them personally, and that includes protections against camping/tunneling.
Ds can only be used once. Pop is not a one time deal. I'd settle for reducing the timer to 45 seconds, like pop, and even cancelling it if I jump on a gen, if I get to use it every time I come off a hook.
Exactly. Even if killers want to argue that it's a crutch "second chance" perk, that's fine. Survivors deserve second chances against killers who try to turn 3 hooks into one hook staring at a killer's face.
Killers are, and have always been the star of the show. They don't advertise survivor DLC's. I think the only one they advertised to my recollection, was Ash. Otherwise, the spotlight is on the killer. Hey, watch these trailers highlighting the killer, and then at the end, when they're showing stills of all the details, here is the survivor that just kind of comes crammed in.
Look at all these amazing new killer perks, but here's more survivor perks, like seeing the aura of a gen. Personally, I wish they'd make survivors unique so there's more incentive to not just play a single one. Killers are completely unique, and survivors are various skins you can attach literally any perk to. That's all.
And I honestly believe the newer killers are rather unfair to the older ones. Old killers get their standard m1, and AN ability. New killers get the m1 and like 3 or 4+ abilities. Trail of torment, Punishment, instant hooks, built-in mori, blood pools, teleport, stealth outside a certain range, auto-sleep, fake pallets, big shock, little shock, auto reveals, UI interference.
Then you go to trapper and he gets a few traps. Legion gets a stab that doesn't down people anymore. Apparently he's overworked, because ending that ability stuns him for several seconds, and makes his screen go dark. Spirit gets to go stealth for a bit. Wraith gets to go invisible and come back out of it. Older killers are annoying only when skilled players use them. They require some level of skill to use. Many of the newer killers require very little, because the game sort of does it all for you.
Every new killer to date is a significantly better version of the old killers, with multiple abilities built in, while all the newer killers pretty much get left behind. If anything, you should be chastising the developers for seemingly not even considering the older content when they just throw out new pay-to-win content. But I have to at least credit them for going back and trying to balance out the old perks. Personally, I think some of them need to be removed, because the newer ones are just better copies of the older ones.
Like decisive strike?
Many killer mains conveniently forget that the whole 4 survivors thing isn't necessarily a benefit. It's great if you have a SWF team, and SWF is mostly where devs base their balancing from, but at the end of the day, more survivors ruin my games than killers do. Survivors are also very much a detriment to your game, especially if you are solo. They'll stroll up, blow your gen and walk away, they'll unhook you in front of a killer's face, run the killer to the gen you're working on, ######### up healing skill-checks, run from your attempts to heal them, finish gens before healing, so the killer is again alerted to your location, body block you when you're trying to do things to escape the killer, needlessly throw pallets down, hand killers like Michael all the stalk they could ever want, etc. There are so many ways that other survivors can ruin your game, and I don't think killers see or even care. To them, everyone is a SWF, and all balances and changes should revolve around the idea that everyone is a red-rank SWF, and that's unfair.
You're too late to the roast party my friend
I honestly feel like killer and survivor queue times are more artificial than anything. 30,000-40,000 players on every evening (during the early hours when it's all quiet), and I'll see the same killer and the same survivors 3 times (username and all).
Because ds is and always been a problem. I guess survivors should grow a pair and deal with a hard killer to go against. And stop asking for nerfs to killer abilities, and more on to the next they want easy mode to play against.
They could rebuff some killers the nerf3d to where they use to be as well.
I only remembered what this thread was after commenting that, it was just an instinctive reponse
You forget 4 survivors can use it..
And? Each survivor has to worry about themselves, thanks to the ranking system. Unless they are a full SWF, it is more likely that the other survivors will ruin your game than anything. Most of the issues I have in my games aren't due to the killer, but due to the other randoms I get matched with. They may as well be on a team with the killer. 4 survivors doesn't automatically mean an advantage. It can very much cost you games.
What do you mean "and" lmao, having 4 ds is 4 minutes blanket immunity for those who know how to use it the perk is busted.
I dont really want to compare DS to Pop so heavily, but DS isn’t a one time use. It can activate 4 times. I saw Otz take 3 DS in a Trapper game yesterday.
I think people can get so focussed on the 1 vs 1 they forget it’s a 1 vs 4.
For example if you’re going to get hit but use Dead Hard for distance to make it to a pallet/window, and its an area where you can add an extra 20 seconds to your chase, then thats 20 seconds of time you just bought for your team.
If the other 3 survivors are on gens thats 20 charges across 3 gens. Thats 25% of 3 gens you just bought them. That’s 3 x PGTW with one press of the E key. Remember DH can be used at least 3 x per survivor, across 4 survivors thats 12 times just like Pop.
say sike right now
Dead Hard Alone can Win games entirely
It activates twice, and can only actually be used once. Yes, multiple players can have it, but again, thanks to the ranking system, it's every man for himself. Survivors aren't working as a team, so much as they are all working for themselves, because winning is irrelevant, as long as they can achieve that pip. They have to compete against the killer and against each other to rank. As for your 1v4 argument, I repeatedly have to remind people that 3 other survivors isn't necessarily an advantage, unless you're a SWF. More often, it's the other survivors, not the killer, that ruin my matches. Most of the success survivors see in matches revolves around them coordinating successfully enough to finish the gens and get out. If your'e all solo, you have to do that without being able to communicate at all. The end result is survivors running the killer at you while you're working on gens, sitting in a corner doing nothing, pulling you off hooks in front of the killer's face (without borrowed time), walking up to the gen you're almost finished, blowing it, and then walking away, etc. Your math seems to argue around the coordination expected of a SFW team that is actively communicating throughout the match. Very rarely are a group of randoms coordinating and splitting gens. People like Otz are the best of the best, as it is, and are typically matched with red-rank full SFWs, and he STILL wins 90% of his matches. Using people like Otz to make an argument goes both ways, since the guy makes most survivors he plays against look like absolute tools, which people like me could argue as justification to actually buff many of these perks, not nerf them.
It doesnt take a swf to take advantage of an exhaustion perk like DH.
If you force the killer to spend an extra 20 seconds in a chase, that’s an extra 20 seconds of time you just bought the other survivors. If at least 2 are on gens thats still 2 x pop value.
If none are on a gen then thats an issue with the ranking system and potatoes.
The majority are playing swf in some form, whether its 2 man, 3 man or 4 man.
Can't wait for this thread to be deleted because people were "bullying" the devs
I mean yall are though, literally the most popular comment made a bunch of responses that were shitting on almo lmao
If almo didn't see that coming then I don't know what to say. It was such an obvious trap.
That isn't an excuse for the behavior
Why are you defending him? We're not "bullying" him, we're criticising him for his poor choice of reasoning.
Some of you are criticizing, some of you are just straight up attacking, and it's not only this thread, another thread about this topic someone called him ######### and autistic.
I do agree that personal insults are not necessary, nobody should be doing that (obviously, but for a forum like this you have to say it). However I can't say that I don't expect people to give him backlash/criticism as the reason he gave for the Pop nerf could literally apply to any other perk that has a limited time of use.