Bring back old balanced landing
It's boring that there's only 2 good exhaustion perks, sprint burst and dead hard (adrenaline is kinda different from the rest).
The old balanced landing wasn't even better than these perks in many situations, and whether or not it was good depended highly on your map and location. Sprint burst and dead hard are better in the sense that they can be used in all maps and in essentially all locations.
Comments
lol no. It made infinites out of any drop.
You're obviously new to the game. It created no infinites because the killer could just chase you the opposite direction, blocking you from dropping. Even if this wasn't the case you only gained ground if there was a window with the passive before the drop.
There's a reason more people used dead hard than balanced back then.
Holy ######### rofl. You have no argument other than calling me new.
Nice strawman.
You must have never played Haddonfield when old BL was a thing...
nice ad homienem
You must have never played on shelter woods with new or old balanced.
Lol you don't even know what ad hominem means is all you've shown by saying that.
Nice uhhh ad hominim. No wait, No True Scotsman. Slippery Slope! I'm just reading off that argument fallacy list at this point lol.
Yeah, that's rather obvious.
While on paper balanced landing wasnt that bad, its issue arose from being capable of more than doubling loop times at the least..
Not at the least at all. At the least you'll not be able to get to a drop and it'll do nothing for you. At best it will significantly increase your loop times.
But the same can be said of dead hard. Sometimes you won't be able to get any good use out of it, sometimes it will allow you to get to a vault or pallet and significantly increase your loop times.
Let's just OCCAMS RAZOR here and say Ding Ding Ding. This dood got it.
The survivor recovered too fast with the passive and on certain maps could not be stopped.
Going the opposite direction...where? They drop down the moment you go up to them then wait at the furthest end of the loop to do it again. You can either be up or down, but not both.
And if there's a vault in between the drops, then you are guaranteed to be slowed as killer.
######### that. Old balanced landing was so exploited and abuseable.
Tell me this is a joke
P l e a s e
Dude if you brought that back dead dawg saloon would be ten times worse than haddonfield ever thought of being, any of the crotus maps, hawkins, midwich, new thompson house etc... Would all have infinites in them that could be abused , they've changed it so it doesn't hold them back on map design because with that perk you can only do so much before its just busted though I will agree it needs something more than its current state
Lithe or head-on ftw
I agree that BL feels too weak to use over other exhaustion perks. But that's more of an issue with map design than the perk itself. They should add more drops, specifically on maps like Shelter Woods. BL is actually pretty decent if you get a good map, like The Game or Haddonfield.
NO..... dont wan to deal with infinites on haddonfield again.....
delete haddonfield first then well talk
Thing is all exhaustion perks have a pattern, they do a effect then go on cooldown, BL was a outliner and had the speed boost plus a passive, combining it all in one made gameplay sense and honestly it still is a useful perk on some maps, really all the exhaustion perks are.
This is honestly quite a sad argument. Because those Maps where Balanced Landing was strong (and which were brought up before the Change) are horrible for Killer anyway, even with new Balanced Landing or completely without this Perk. Haddonfield, Ormond, Disturbed Ward were the Maps mentioned, and all 3 are really survivor-sided, even if you cannot loop the Main Building multiple times (or, in the case of Disturbed Ward, this was possible without BL anyway).
Also, another argument was that the Devs dont have to balance Maps with Balanced Landing in mind. But this is already happening. Look at the Maps which were created since the BL-Nerf, they all have a Drop next to a upper floor window. You cannot really use Balanced Landing there to create strong Loops, you can use it once by getting the Speed Burst (which is possible with current BL), but a second Loop will not be possible because even with Stagger Reduction, the Killer has a Drop, meaning he does not lose any distance because of the slower vault.
And IMO only the Myers House and Ormond need BL-Fixes, because the Main Building of Disturbed Ward does not really benefit BL that much, since there are no windows on the upper floor (but it needs rework in general). The Myers House would be fixed by putting Doorways instead of Windows on the Top OR open Doorways next to Windows. Same with Ormond, either remove every Window on the Top Floor or put a Doorway next to it. And this are things which SHOULD be able to be done quickly. Maybe also revisit the Buildings on Haddonfield.
But honestly, this should be done instead of crippling a Perk like BL. DH was already better, and now it is one of only two real options. And the argument that BHVR would need to balance Maps with the Stagger Reduction in mind also does not hold anything, because they are doing it already.
So tl;dr - BHVR should fix the problematic Maps and bring back the stagger reduction of Balanced Landing for at least a little bit of variety in the Survivor Meta.
No, because when it was "good" it created uncounterable infinites and broke the game. And yes, I mean uncounterable, because the killer couldn't just chase you the opposite direction: It's a drop, not an LT tile.
Besides, new BL is a great perk now that it has the muffle effect. I just wish the maps had more drops, that's really the only reason it doesn't work so well.
The only reason the variety went away is because a broken toy got removed. Nothing else about the perk changed, except the considerable buff that it received. It really does shine a light on why certain perks are meta: when they are at their strongest, they are INSANELY strong.
Mate I'm sorry but your completely in the wrong here. The stagger reduction was just so strong you could create infinites.
Take haddonfield main building for example. Your counter argument is for the killer to turn around. Well as a survivor I vault the window and wait till he vaults before I drop. If he doesn't drop immediately I know he's probably going back through the window. I will then go around the building and go back upstairs or just go to another amazing building on that map. Maps like Hawkins, Ormond and Disturbed Ward are also extremely strong with this perk.
You mentioned later about Shelter Woods being a bad map for it as an argument to someone saying how broken the perk was on haddonfield. Just remember Nurse is the strongest killer in the game but is horrible on Lerys. Also you could get balanced off the tree in the middle if you used it right.
No matter which way you shape it the perk was completely broken.
Yeah, and in the end, the BL-Nerf did nothing except for removing some variety. Because for Maps like Haddonfield it does not matter at all if BL is nerfed or not.
Or every single tractor on coldwind farm.
"BHVR should fix the problematic Maps and bring back the stagger reduction of Balanced Landing for at least a little bit of variety in the Survivor Meta."
You're wanting to cripple all future map designs around the design of 1 perk, that is not good decision making.
Fixing BL allows them much more options with map design without having to always consider if it's abusable by BL.
Old Balanced Landing was a problem because of how it liked to exist at the extremes of balance; it was almost always either completely bonkers or virtually useless depending on which map you got.
I do agree that the change to it has removed its potential to be insanely strong without changing how bad it is on some maps (it is probably the weakest Sprint perk now), but the passive stagger reduction it formerly had needed to go.
Maybe it could get an alternate passive effect instead? What if it reduced falling/landing noise by 25-50% all the time instead of its current 100%-muffling-while-not-Exhausted effect?
You never played haddonfield against a good player with BL did you? Every house was an infinite. You had to give up the chvase if they had it
But they are already doing it, and I would not say that they are crippling the future map design.
Sanctum of Wrath-->next to every Window is a Drop for the Killer.
Saloon-->The Balconies have Windows, but on all of them is a Drop as well.
Midwich-->The only Windows with height are in the Hallways, and those have a Drop nearby.
So they are already doing Maps with old BL in mind and I dont think that those Maps are crippled.
All they need to do to make BL better is to make the silent falling to be passive. The speed boost with still have the exhausted timer but it would give it more uses while still being very limited.
They aren't doing those with old BL in mind, those designs were for aesthetic.
There are also quite a few drops in those maps that don't match that design that you aren't mentioning and could be abused if we had old BL.
I don't see how what I'm saying isn't making sense. There are drops that could not be made if we had old BL that now can be made. I don't see how this is controversial. There are very clearly abusable and non-abusable designs that correlate with BL potential.
Which Drops? And where is aesthetic when there is a hole in the ground or the wall?
nice so we can abuse bad design loops again. luckily the perk is nerfed and now is working as it should.
looks at haddonfield with old balanced landing hahhahahah... No
So bad map design and not the perk lol. The passive is what made it good because not many maps have height to drop off of.
They already are doing that new badham spawned a double pallet and you should know what that means.
I agree that's an issue but I'd also say that's unrelated to this topic.
Its related to your comment about future map designs being ruined becuase of bl being in thought. I countered that bt saying they already are. The pallet count is so low double pallets are spawning I even have the screen shot.
The holes in the ground or wall, or even a scafolding is quite thematic when it's a old run down building that's falling apart or a saloon. I'd say that aesthetically fits quite well.
There's a drop off window at the saloon back into the inside and a few stairs in the map going to drop offs.
They're obviously not to the degree of Haddonfield and some of them have semi walk arounds or breakable walls. However, breaking the walls there and the walk arounds would still allow them to waste quite a lot of time. So yes, we're not looking at infinites like with previous BL on Haddonfield, but still able to waste way more time than they want to see happen.
That also doesn't change my point about limiting future map design.
The Drop Off inside the Saloon has a Breakable Wall next to it which leads inside so that the Killer can drop down. So, you cannot really name any window drops. Thats not a surprise, given the fact that you are the person who claims that every new Survivor Perk is OP. Surely you dont want that another Perk can become good again.
(I mean, I am fine with using Dead Hard instead, it is better anyway. But Killers should not complain about the lack of variety if there are no alternatives)
How are you relating that to pallet distribution?
Double pallet spawning is related to too many pallets and not enough space to place them, not too little. If pallet count was extremely low we wouldn't see double pallets. It's trying to squeeze too many pallets into too small a space which makes it supercede the pallet distribution rule it's given.
"The Drop Off inside the Saloon has a Breakable Wall next to it which leads inside so that the Killer can drop down. So, you cannot really name any window drops"
I already answered this.
"Thats not a surprise, given the fact that you are the person who claims that every new Survivor Perk is OP. Surely you dont want that another Perk can become good again."
What are you even talking about? I have not said that at all.
By all means, please link posts to me saying things like this if you are going to make wild accusations. Let's see it. They don't exist.
I've even made quite a few posts talking about how a lot of the new survivor perks lately are weak and need buffs, as well as offering my own buff ideas for them.
"(I mean, I am fine with using Dead Hard instead, it is better anyway. But Killers should not complain about the lack of variety if there are no alternatives)"
You are missing the point entirely here.
Killers and survivors both want variety. Variety doesn't mean giving you back a busted and abusable perk, those aren't synonymous.
Ok so why is there not enough space. They have flat out removed some pallet spawns and shortened loop tot he point you can side step them.
There are very little places where pallrts can spawn on badham they removed them. You can try and justify it with nonsense but that's how it is. It's not too many pallets and no space it's the game failing to place pallets on the lack of spawns due to the devs and forcing one.
"What are you even talking about? I have not said that at all."
Well, you are the person claiming that Soul Guard is OP, and if you see it (which is very, very rare), you only see it with Unbreakable. And I might mistaken, but you also said that one of the new Felix-Perks is too strong. If I am mistaken on that one, apologies.
"Killers and survivors both want variety. Variety doesn't mean giving you back a busted and abusable perk, those aren't synonymous."
If I read the Forum with all the Nerf-Threads (including Exhaustion Perks), I dont think that Killers want variety. Or only variety, if everything is weak enough.
And nope, it is not the Perk, it is bad Maps. BHVR should fix the Maps in a reasonable time. It is around 1 year since Balanced Landing was nerfed and Haddonfield or Ormond are STILL the worst Maps for Killers in the game. Even if they say that they dont want to make Health-Chapters, they should start doing what is more important and fixing those Maps is something that should have been done months ago instead of nerfing a Perk, which would not be busted if Map Design would actually been addressed.
"Ok so why is there not enough space. They have flat out removed some pallet spawns and shortened loop tot he point you can side step them."
Removing pallet "spawns" is not the same thing as removing the amount of pallets allocated to a map on generation. There was some overly safe pallet placements they wanted removed but in return they increased the overall amount of pallets on the map to make up for it. IE more pallets but less that are overly safe. We see the double spawn because of this increased amount of pallets trying to be placed. Not sure if I'd agree on loops that were overly shortened to be too unsafe to where you can just side step them. There are only a very small few of those and they are intended to be pallets that you don't want to stay and play, while instead aiming for the stun on them to be used properly.
"There are very little places where pallrts can spawn on badham they removed them. You can try and justify it with nonsense but that's how it is. It's not too many pallets and no space it's the game failing to place pallets on the lack of spawns due to the devs and forcing one."
I'm not sure where you're getting this "justify with nonsense" from me. This design philosophy on what you're describing and what I'm quoting is literally from the devs themselves. What's happening on the Badham design is exactly what they described to be their design, so it's working as intended. I'm not sure where your disagreement lies.
"Well, you are the person claiming that Soul Guard is OP, and if you see it (which is very, very rare), you only see it with Unbreakable. And I might mistaken, but you also said that one of the new Felix-Perks is too strong. If I am mistaken on that one, apologies."
I do think Soul Guard is too strong in a SWF context. That is ONE perk that I have said and I agree on. That's it. Not "all new survivor perks".
I haven't said ANY of Felix's perks were too strong, at all. I have as I said earlier, even posted buff ideas for some his perks.
"If I read the Forum with all the Nerf-Threads (including Exhaustion Perks), I dont think that Killers want variety. Or only variety, if everything is weak enough."
I don't think you're listening to what those people are wanting closely then. They all want variety and not with everything being weak.
Wanting something that is overly strong to be brought down to normal levels to create more diversity of builds to where those perks aren't overshadowing everything else, is not the same as wanting everything weak. The majority of those people, myself included also want lots of major buffs to survivor perks. I would personally like about 90% of the survivor perks to be buffed and have even made multiple threads about how I would buff them. I just simply think about 5% of the survivor perks are too strong and overshadow the others as well.
I feel like you are focusing so hard on the few perk nerfs people want and ignoring the massive buffs to all the other perks they want simultaneously.
"And nope, it is not the Perk, it is bad Maps. BHVR is too lazy to fix the Maps in a reasonable time. It is around 1 year since Balanced Landing was nerfed and Haddonfield or Ormond are STILL the worst Maps for Killers in the game. Even if they say that they dont want to make Health-Chapters, they should start doing what is more important and fixing those Maps is something that should have been done months ago instead of nerfing a Perk, which would not be busted if Map Design would actually been addressed."
Oh I agree that bad map design is one of the games biggest issues and that the changes have been too slow. While we can agree on that, I still don't think the idea that old BL limited future map design is untrue.
Bring back old Balanced Landing, and just make all of its effects be on exhaustion cooldown. What's the problem with that?
The problem with the old version was that the stagger reduction was not affected by exhaustion.