Bring back old balanced landing
It's boring that there's only 2 good exhaustion perks, sprint burst and dead hard (adrenaline is kinda different from the rest).
The old balanced landing wasn't even better than these perks in many situations, and whether or not it was good depended highly on your map and location. Sprint burst and dead hard are better in the sense that they can be used in all maps and in essentially all locations.
Comments
Because it's trash without a passive.
Wrong, the killer can just go the opposite way. Instead of dropping the killer can go back down, blocking the survivor from using the same loop.
I love how fast almost everybody disregarded this.
Ok so you are saying they increased the amount of pallrt spawns on that map to make up for the lack of unsafe pallets. Alright that's cool but I've never seen this map spawn more than 8. That is a lack of tile spawns. These 8 pallets are medium to unsafe pallets.
After reading what you said it makes sense but my problem lies in the fact that increased pallet spawns dont matter as long as there are no tiles to spawn it. That's my frustration they also just flat out made some spots not spawn a 2 pallets like hosue of pain and on top of that the absurd breakable walls that make it essentially a death trap.
The unsafe pallets are a design flaw as latency makes going for stuns inconsistent half the time you are hit through the pallet so I see very little reason for them to be unfafe.
Even with this "increased amount of pallets" the map has less than it did prior to the update so could you explain that? They removed alot of the filler pallet spawns on like trucks in the street.
"Ok so you are saying they increased the amount of pallrt spawns on that map to make up for the lack of unsafe pallets. Alright that's cool but I've never seen this map spawn more than 8. That is a lack of tile spawns. These 8 pallets are medium to unsafe pallets."
For the lack of safe pallets, not unsafe pallets.
There are generally way, way more than 8, like almost double that.
"After reading what you said it makes sense but my problem lies in the fact that increased pallet spawns dont matter as long as there are no tiles to spawn it. That's my frustration they also just flat out made some spots not spawn a 2 pallets like hosue of pain and on top of that the absurd breakable walls that make it essentially a death trap."
Sometimes there can be a double from lack of spawn spots, but I generally find this pretty rare. I can agree that they could add a few more "potential" spawn places for more variety though and to lessen the chance of those double spawns even more. I don't really see it happen very often though that I feel like it's an immediate issue. I'd argue that even with those breakable walls in house of pain as one example, it is still extremely strong. Even without him breaking it I can still waste a lot of the killers time there. More time than a killer can afford to waste if he wants to win the game. So I don't really see breakable walls there as an issue.
"The unsafe pallets are a design flaw as latency makes going for stuns inconsistent half the time you are hit through the pallet so I see very little reason for them to be unfafe."
I agree latency is a problem and the ping from dedicated servers needs improvements as it is still quite bad. However I don't think that means those unsafe spots are bad as that's a latency problem, not a loop problem. I generally just avoid using those spots to avoid the risk entirely and that seems to work well for me. There are generally many other better spots to run to. Even when I am forced to run it I typically don't even try for the stun and just bait the run around or swing and just keep looping it. I'll go down eventually but the killer ends up wasting at least a couple loops. IE more than he should have and enough time that I'd call that a win on my side.
"Even with this "increased amount of pallets" the map has less than it did prior to the update so could you explain that? They removed alot of the filler pallet spawns on like trucks in the street."
I'll have to go back and manual count the pallets again, but generally as I said earlier, I feel that there are still lots of pallets. I can't remember the last time I played there and we ran out of pallets before the gate was open. If you could post a video of you in a KYF counting the pallets as well we could take a look at that and see if there is an issue, but generally I don't think the count is low from my experience. If anything I'd still say that map favors survivors even with its changes.
Ok so I'll keep this short I'll make a video of me counting the pallets on badham 1 cause why not. The max pallets is 16 but that map only spawns about 8-9 in experienced and for some reason they shrunk killer shack which I forgot to mention.
If yourself says unsafe pallets and latency are a problem and you avoid them then that makes even less usable pallets.
House of pain is a joke now I've been playing killer on there and the breakable walls is a bandaid fix to a bigger problem as killer there is no reason to break and as survivor you should have a way of doing it yourself.
I'm pretty sure I've seen multiple videos measuring the shack and it is indeed still the same size. We can take a look at that in the video as well though.
"If yourself says unsafe pallets and latency are a problem and you avoid them then that makes even less usable pallets."
They are meant to be less usable pallets, that is by design. I don't avoid them because of how unsafe they are or latency, I avoid them because I can waste more time at other loops.
"House of pain is a joke now I've been playing killer on there and the breakable walls is a bandaid fix to a bigger problem as killer there is no reason to break and as survivor you should have a way of doing it yourself."
If the survivor could break them that would defeat their purpose entirely.
I'll watch the shack videos or look them up in a bit.
Ok while their design is to be less usable they might as well not be there. It feels like the number of side steppable/unsafe pallets has risen. Even medium pallets are bad because you can bloodlust which is pretty mindless gameplay.
Whats the point if they are never broken might as well be solid then right? It could be something like search for a hammer or be able to break atleast one.
"Ok while their design is to be less usable they might as well not be there. It feels like the number of side steppable/unsafe pallets has risen. Even medium pallets are bad because you can bloodlust which is pretty mindless gameplay."
The number of side steppable/unsafe pallets still feels extremely low to me, like only 1 or 2 per game with some maps having basically none.
Saying medium pallets are bad because of bloodlust just doesn't make any sense. I can't even remember the last time I got hit because of a blood, so that's at least a couple months. Also, even IF you are getting bloodlusted, he is throwing the game for that 1 hit with the amount of time it takes to gain enough bloodlust. In other words, if you are going down because of bloodlust the killer has already thrown the game anyway, so what's the issue? This is why you hardly see it(they don't want to throw the game) and why bloodlust nor medium pallets are an issue.
"Whats the point if they are never broken might as well be solid then right? It could be something like search for a hammer or be able to break atleast one."
If the door in some of those loops could hypothetically just be a solid wall then why is there an issue at all? If they changed it to a solid wall or left it a door that he doesn't break you are still left with the same outcome, so where's the issue? Is your argument that with the door still closed the loop is too unsafe?
The unsafe pallet amount on badham seems high right now alot of the loops are just so short I will record a video later to day and see.
The bloodlust was a hypothetical if i didnt make that clear. I dont go down due to bloodlust I was making a point it could happen and also bloodlust takes like 10 seconds for the first one thats not a long amount of time.
My argument here is if killers arent gonna break the wall anyways just make them solid. I wouldnt complain. My complaint is the fact that even though its optional no smart killer is gonna do it so you might as well close them completely.
"The bloodlust was a hypothetical if i didnt make that clear. I dont go down due to bloodlust I was making a point it could happen and also bloodlust takes like 10 seconds for the first one thats not a long amount of time."
They could, but they don't, so it's not really an issue. It wastes enough time getting it for a hit that it's throwing the game. If it was an inconsequential amount of time for the hit many killers would do it, but they don't, because it is a large amount of wasted time.
"My argument here is if killers arent gonna break the wall anyways just make them solid. I wouldnt complain. My complaint is the fact that even though its optional no smart killer is gonna do it so you might as well close them completely."
I mean if it's a wall or a door that doesn't get broken you still end up with the same outcome, so asking them to make it a solid wall wouldn't change anything. Your issue is more just with the principle of it then, in the fact that by making it door they're acting like it's an option when it's really not.
But it is an issue with perks like corrupt that slow down early gens and solo queue teams bloodlusting is still common. 10 seconds is not detrimental to you as killer that would be an exaggeration.
Actually nailed it here except my biggest gripe is there are too many breakable walls and this shows that anything the devs think is problematic they are gonna shove in s breakable qall that's never getting broke.
"But it is an issue with perks like corrupt that slow down early gens and solo queue teams bloodlusting is still common. 10 seconds is not detrimental to you as killer that would be an exaggeration."
Just so I understand, you're telling me that this happens on the regular for your solo queue teams at rank 1 on Console?
Tbh it's actually 15seconds not 10 and when you add in the time starting the chase that's a good bit of time. Anything over 20 seconds for a chase is losing the killer the game. Pallet or hit in 20 seconds or less if you want to win is a general rule. Anything over 20 seconds and you misplayed.
This is also assuming the chase never gets broke long enough for a reset and that there's no windows. Even with T1 bloodlust you can still loop a good bit longer if there's a window.
"Actually nailed it here except my biggest gripe is there are too many breakable walls and this shows that anything the devs think is problematic they are gonna shove in s breakable qall that's never getting broke."
I get your point. Feels kinda like semantics though.
What if hypothetically every time there's a loop that's problematic they add a solid wall by closing off a window or doorway? Would kind of be the same thing as adding a breakable wall no?
This happens/ can happen on maps with short loops. That killers will try and force a pallet vault into a hit 50/50. So I'd say yeah pretty regularly. I win these 50/50 but latency is common on console and with crossplay the amount of vpners on na west is gross. It's a free hit.
Ok back to corrupt 20 seconds with corrupt is not detrimental even without it. That's exaggerating and assuming everyone is on gens but this is solo queue. To back this up I've had long chases where no gens will pop so this is a huge claim.
I dont know if you know this but their is a speed glitch take my words with what you will but bloodlust t1 is really fast. Even with s window there always latency and vpn it's so common that windows are pretty weak currently I actually made a thread regarding that.
If they add a solid wall there sure it would remove that well its optional but not really feeling but still killing loops instead of reworking them.
"This happens/ can happen on maps with short loops. That killers will try and force a pallet vault into a hit 50/50. So I'd say yeah pretty regularly. I win these 50/50 but latency is common on console and with crossplay the amount of vpners on na west is gross. It's a free hit."
If they're really forcing that many bloodlusts they should be losing a lot of games unless the randos you're getting are real potatoes. I don't like balancing the game around assuming the players will be potatoes. Balancing like that leads to unbalanced games against actually semi competent players.
"Ok back to corrupt 20 seconds with corrupt is not detrimental even without it. That's exaggerating and assuming everyone is on gens but this is solo queue. To back this up I've had long chases where no gens will pop so this is a huge claim."
Even semi decent survivors they should all be on gens, I don't think this is exaggerating. If we assume they all aren't and balance around that things will be very unbalanced against competent players. Balancing things around assuming the player will be dumb and not use their tools they've been given correctly leads down a bad path. I want the game balanced around good players playing against good players.
"I dont know if you know this but their is a speed glitch take my words with what you will but bloodlust t1 is really fast. Even with s window there always latency and vpn it's so common that windows are pretty weak currently I actually made a thread regarding that."
I haven't experienced any of this myself yet.
"If they add a solid wall there sure it would remove that well its optional but not really feeling but still killing loops instead of reworking them."
Why would a hypothetical wall there instead kill the loops?
Nice strawman, but my argument isn't based on an ad hominin at all. Here's the part you conveniently left out:
"It created no infinites because the killer could just chase you the opposite direction, blocking you from dropping. Even if this wasn't the case you only gained ground if there was a window with the passive before the drop.
There's a reason more people used dead hard than balanced back then."
So what's the conclusion to you guys' discussion?
Let's jsut end it here it's pointless and the devs are gonna make mote maps with pointless breakable walls and shorter loops.
I do want to comment in two things. I'm not saying bloodlust is every pallet its usually those medium ones they do that for a bit and it's usually a win for me since I know how to time my vaults.
The problem is latency and newer players you can get hit over pallets that you are already over and newer players will struggle. Not to mention just flat out boring.
The hypothetical wall kills loops due to lack of an optimal way to run it. The walls cut the loop down so much it's not much of a loop anymore.
That isn't true, I don't know where you are getting that but I watched several streamers try it and tried it myself. It was never a thing, not for the significant majority of infinites, because in all of that time you just wasted the survivor got away.
I don't know how you think logical fallacy works, but just because the ad hominem wasn't the main focus of the point you were making doesn't mean it wasn't attacking the individual instead of their argument.
Also the just go around works against survivors with more than 100 hours when they learn to look behind them. Most of the loops with balanced landing were god window loops which means no room for mindgames and no room for counterplay from most killers as long as the survivor was smart enough to ever look behind them.
Your argument is closest to god windows were balanced all you have to do is double back and never have the survivor look behind them
It was talking about the argument, I see you ignored the quotation and have no clue to what a fallacy is.
Anyways, I played killer when balanced landing was actually decent and I never had trouble with it anymore than other exhaustion perks like sprint burst or dead hard.
I still suffer PTSD from old BL with haddonfield offerings. No thank you
Ah yes directly attacking the argument by calling it new to the game???
I see you are of the intellectual variety who even when they saw someone directly quoting facts and logic they are still wrong as long as it would mean you are correct.
Far from it
The old BL needs to make a return, the new one is just so bad, some maps don't even give you anywhere to drop, like Shelter Woods, but BL was good on maps where there are lots of drops, because it'd open up new routes, that you couldn't before take because of the stagger, but now, perk no longer offers the unique value it once had and so you're better off with SB.
To all those haters here, the only reason BL stagger was ever an issue was because killers can't appropriately control his/her momentum and velocity when dropping down from a height.
I've always hated the sprint on landing far more than the stagger reduction. The stagger reduction meant that my chases when following survivors would always take me new places and force me to try new things. Now that no longer exists.