Survivors Taking Game Hostage To Exploit Hatch
It's been a serious problem. Any amount of gen's left, but only 2 survivors remaining. The two survivors will hide, and refuse to do gens. Just to have a chance at getting the free win from the hatch. Taking the game hostage, or until the Killer finds one of them.
Just played in a match for 2 hours, simply because I had nothing better to do anyways (so I wasn't forced to DC). Wanted to see how long it would go for, and when I could actually find one.
@Peanits Any dev's want to explain to me again why adding the hatch to stop players from taking the game hostage was a good idea even in the first place? Because imo it did nothing but cause players to take the game hostage anyway they can for the easy/free win.
September 9th Update;
Are you serious BHVR? Honestly what's the point of doing the objective as survivor anymore. I'm just going to pop one of these bad boys on and watch as the Killer cry's because I will either be standing at the hatch, or the door furthest of it for certain at the end of the match when I let my whole team die.
Comments
I will say this the user aka me is mostly a killer main I was on survivor for tome challenges and I didn’t really care about the slug as I said I had UB DS so whatever it’s about stuff that happened after with her where she told me perks are worse then literal third party software (that is some real entitlement to think anyone should have the game held hostage for them though you should really try thinking from both sides not just one you will be a lot more calm about issues if you do)
There is a difference between the two Killer is still doing objective in that sceanio the survivors are not doing objective they are not pushing the game forward if survivors are doing this longer than 15 minutes then correction its not a expolit its holding the game hostage no if no buts its holding the game hostage why is this even a debate?
Just because survivors can hide in a corner spaming emotes so they dont get crows does not make a killer bad or them good
I didn't even know you can't get crows if you spam emotes, LOL
Evading is fine as long as there's still someone working towards the goal, doing the gens to get out. But when multiple surivors do not touch a gen for several minutes, thats not "part of objective", since you cannot get out this way (as a team). Thats taking the game hostage, since the killer has no means in this scenario to finish the game regularly.
When a killer refuses to chase someone but prefers to protect his gens, thats still working for his objective, hindering survs to escape. It is not taking the game hostage, because the survivors can still work towards their objective, even when it is more or less futile. The killer has no way to block all three gens totally, you can always work on one of them. The survivors can finish the game, whether they live or die is not of importance.
The whole "taking game hostage" can be watered down to an easy rule of thumb: If the only way for you to get out of a match is to DC, your opponent is taking the game hostage against you.
Using an actual infinite loop against the killer for an extended amount of time is taking the game hostage, obviously (no longer present in the game, luckily).
Multiple survivors just hiding without doing anything is taking the game hostage, since the killer has no way of finishing the game (neither killing nor letting them escape).
A killer body blocking the last survivor in a corner without hitting is taking the game hostage, since the survivor has no way to escape or die (cannot even move). If EGC is already ticking, it is NOT taking the game hostage, since the game will end eventually.
A killer slugging survivors and refusing to hook them may be scumy, but not taking the game hostage, since the surv will eventually bleed out.
A killer only protecting gens and not chasing is not taking the game hostage, since the survs still have the possibility to let themselves be killed to get out of the match.
Wait. What Killer were you playing and what was the survivors? And are you a console gamer?
Now to be fair, if it's two Survivors left and you're the everywhere man, then there's no real point in touching generators.
There comes a point where when the Survivors feel like working on objectives will get them killed, instead of openly searching for them, you need to just stand in a corner and let them poke their heads out of their rabbit holes. Once you've given them about a minute or so of you not coming over to find them, that's when you pounce on them. I've had to deal with hyper stealthers like this and this is how I eventually get them.
While TECHNICALLY yes this is sort of holding the game hostage in some regards, it also isn't. They're biding their time for an opening to work on the generators when they feel like it's safe for them to do so.
I wouldn't say you're being a bad Killer, on the contrary the fact that you got two of their teammates shows you did a good job. I'm merely saying that situations like that require patience and an adjustment of your strategies.
There's absolutely no way someone can hide on a DBD map for 2 hours without you finding them. You didn't even try.
@Peanits Can you clarify if OP’s situation is considered holding the game hostage ?
I'm honestly guessing this is what happened here. OP had a 3 gen strat and instead of leaving the gens alone, they decided to constantly come back to the gens.
The survivors, only 2 of them left knowing there's no way to get the gens done probably decide "well screw it, guess we can't get the gens done then" Probably searched every chest, broke every totem. I guess people expect survivors to just run in and get themselves killed because they're losing? Idk, why should they try to go complete a gen that's being patrolled while only having 2 players left?
If the killer actually REALLY searched the map, there's no way to hide for 2 hours. They would get found eventually. There's no area on the map where you can hide that well.
@RakimSockem
Yep. When a killer breaks a chase because they don't want their gens touched, is the same as when survivors evade for the entirety of their match. Both become never-ending and boring.
Run whispers
Haha so i dont have to keep hopping between lockers or cleansing totems to keep crows away? Just do emotes and no more crows?
This sounds extremely broken.
When there are 2-3 Gen left with 2 Survivors, this kind of thing happens. I got a match like this last weekend. Apparently Feng still tried to work on Gen, while David hided real hard and only used Diversion to make noise. Later I saw Feng on Gen and chase down her, she died.
Then few sec later David escaped through hatch
Post game chat: David: gggggggggg
BP:
Feng 15k
David 14k
survivorA 11k
survivorB 9k
Note that if David didnt able to escape through hatch and die. His BP would be merely 7k. The lowest. Consider survivors A & B died for a while.
This is nothing to do with Killer is bad. Get in & out of locker when hearing TR doesnt make survivors good either. There should be a way to limit a match time.
Funny how slugged for 4min is boring. But hiding for 40min is ok.
I wouldnt suggest doing it for too long, if you do it for too long you could get reported (as you should) for holding the game hostage
It's not holding the game hostage. As killer you can always open an exit gate and start the EGC. Problem solved.
That requires all gens to be completed. This situation only happens when its not.
To all the players suggesting to "Just use Whispers" as the solution...
Whenever you feel upset because you get camped, slugged, lobby dodged, tunneled, sandbagged, farmed, trolled or when you constantly face Nurse, Spirit, PH or any other Killer you dislike:
Or to put it simple:
Simply CONSTANTLY use EVERYTHING mentioned above just in case you ever come across a sitation where it would become useful! That is the simple solution to a broken situation! EASY!
Feels like this is how the majority of the playerbase and developers handle a problem: They look at it, find an ineffective bandaid fix and check it as "Solved"!
how many hatch thread are there going to be?
Gen locking a team is something that has been a problem since they updated the spawn mechanics of the game's generators. That is one strategy that I wished they had never allowed to occur in the game!
As for END GAME COLLAPSE and HATCH. Yup, 2 remaining survivors that are mad at one another will sit there and dance around the map or try to hose one another over. if they are both equally happy and both want to get out. They will legit, not do ANYTHING. Hoping the killer becomes frustrated and leaves. Rarely does it happen. Since everyone has an EGO. So this could go on for an HOUR or more! LOL.
I've had this happen more often NOW with 2 survivors and not just ONE (playing as the killer). So ECG fixed NOTHING! LOL!!!
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I guess IMO the ECG timer should start right away and give survivors 60 MINUTES to play the field. With hatch being allowed to be OPENED. Such as a "PRY" feature.
idk
I had a game recently against Pyramid Head where it was just Meg and me left and there were three gens. She had a key, so we spent a while running around the map trying to find the hatch (couldn't find it on Grim Pantry because Swamp maps are terrible for finding hatch). Eventually, the Pyramid Head left his patrolling route of the three gens to try to find us, and I hopped on one of them. Meg came to join me, and we finished it just as he got back. We both escaped through the exit gates.
If you're having issues finding survivors who are not doing gens, try equipping Whispers or looking for more crow disturbances.
--
Kind_Lemon
An advocate of place-able totems, a priming-pallet interaction, and the removal of Exposed from tier 1 Devour Hope.
Also supports changes to how many survivors need to be present to start repairs on a generator.
#revertNurseaddons #reverttieroneDevour #reverttieroneBL #nofreechaseresources #placeabletotems #revertBillysounds #workwiththemusicyouhave
when you hear the heart beat just run straight to the killer... no you hide common lol
Thats not all a hostage situation. Either you get killed, or the gen is completed. If the survivors are trying to complete their objective, an impossible situation never occured
It's definitely annoing, but you can counter this by using whispers. However i don't run whispers with every killer build. What you can do to counter this is go somewhere center where you are decently close to all of the remaining gens, then just go to your desktop to watch videos from youtube or what ever. In this scenario you have the advantage because survivors are forced to move constantly otherwise they get crows. Then just come back check if they have started repairing generators or not every few minutes. This has worked for me every single time survivors have pulled this off. After i finally get them when they get bored i will slug both of them and let them bleedout
@Zaitsev
How do you get killed when the killer doesn't want to kill you?
As previously stated. You can't do gens if the killer isn't chasing someone. Like, I get that you don't see what is very clear, but let's not pretend like the survivor is going to get on a hook on their own.
Then, do the gen. Unlike with the hatch "strat" there is more than one way out.
DO
THE
OBJECTIVE
*meant to be read in an announcers voice
Survivors hiding in the corner of the map is no different to a killer not leaving a 3 gen to commit to a chase.
Both make the game long and boring. In a way both are passively completing an objective, killer is stopping gen progression and survivor is trying to outlive their teammate to survive 🤷🏻♂️
The fact that people upvoted this load of bs amazes me.
If one side refuses to progress the match, that is taking the game hostage. It's the same as if a killer blocked a survivor in a corner and refused to let them play. It's a bannable offense, as stated in the rules.
'Camping and tunneling' ENDS the match one way or another. The survivor dies, they move on. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant 4k slugging, forcing all four to bleed out. Dick move, yes, but the survivor still dies in the end, and can move on.
It is not difficult to hide from the killer, if that is the intention. Especially on maps with lower visibility, such as corn maps, or Yamoaka.
I'm all for the killer being allowed to trigger EGC after a certain amount of time has passed, just so this situation doesn't happen. And it does happen.
Ideally if it's been 20 minutes since the last generator popped, the killer should have the option to hit one of the exit gates to manually start EGC. This way the killer can manually decide to force the match to end if he's actually being held hostage by survivors literally refusing to do generators, but unlike an automated timer it won't end up cutting a match short where it's been 20 minutes but the killer is still getting hits, downs, and hooks the entire time. (Killer can choose to keep looking for the survivors if he wishes.)
EDIT: Optionally the EGC could be reworked in this case as a "Punishment" for the survivors for ignoring generators. A half duration "Sudden Death" EGC occurs where survivors have their auras revealed and are exposed + the other exit gate isn't powered. This is pretty harsh but it's supposed to be a penalty if the survivors are just hiding. Maybe if this happens the requirements for the killer to open the exit gate are changed so it has to be 20 minutes since a generator popping, a survivor being chased, changing health state, or hooked. (So it ONLY happens if all living survivors are actually being immersed for an extended period of time.)
Your opinion is similar to all the others that responded to me.
I'm not saying you or they are wrong, but allow me to say that it's rather unfair the way it is, to be honest.
The game is in favor of the Killer 90% of the time, the remaining 10% being situations like these, pallets, SWF, certain perks, flashlights and among other small things that somehow make the game "not fun" for Killers.
It's funny. Things that Killers do and Survivors hate aren't bannable or punishable, but things that Survivors do that Killers hate will always be bannable or punishable one way or another.
Is that quite fair to you? Then again, I don't think a game like Dead by Daylight will ever be fair to both parties.
It is a 1v4 game after all, in which the game is in favor of the "minority"
@Zaitsev
You don’t get it but that’s ok.
”Do the objective” same could be said about the killer.
Cant kill no one if you’re not chasing. You think survivors should just give up their hooks because the killer isn’t confident enough in ending a chase? Pfft.
There's a difference between 'doing something one side hates' and 'refusing to participate in the match.' Stealth play is viable. Using it just to keep a match going far, far longer than it should, is not.
Holding the game hostage is a separate matter than 'annoying' perks/items/combos.
One of the problems is if a killer is going super defensive on generators, or he's just farming, not killing you for whatever reason, etc. and you don't want to play at that point you have a few options.
You can let the killer kill you if he's hard-patrolling gens or try your luck and search chests for a key if the hatch has spawned. If he's simply farming and you want to move on to the next match you can do gens usually uncontested and leave. The only instances where it results in a hostage situation are
A: hard-3genning killer (Typically this ends up being a Doctor with Overcharge, Distressing, and Unnerving) who only chases you off generators but refuses to actually kill you (Again, usually this ends up being a Doctor).
B: Killer who bodyblocks you into a corner and goes AFK, especially if the hatch has opened meaning there's no EGC timer and the game never ends.
If survivors are literally just urban evading around the map never touching generators, and this goes on for like 45 minutes, one can argue it might be a hostage scenario if the survivors are intending to do this until the killer gives up and DC's. There's not much the killer can do in this case without Whispers or other tracking perks. If they ARE outright ignoring gens they can be literally anywhere on the map, and as long as they keep crouchwalking there won't be any AFK crows. (You used to be able to avoid crows by EMOTING for crying out loud)
If it's really bad, and we can't seem to have any hope of doing a gen, and this goes on for an extended period of time I'll try and lure the other survivor to the hatch so he knows where it is, then rush at the killer and let him kill me so the hatch opens and either the other survivor jumps in, or the killer shuts it. Either way the match ends.
Here's a post by one of the devs on this subject.
Happened to me on Ormond. Losers couldn't even own up to what they did. "We were trying to find the hatch but we just couldn't do it. We had a key and everything," they said. They urban evaded around the map and Sprint bursted away every time I found them due to AFK crows. After 30 minutes of this they flash light clicked on the hatch and fast vaulted a nearby pallet until I cam close enough to see them use a key, tea bag and escape.
Get back in your cave, troll.
That is some heavy whataboutism but you got a point a good one. That ######### is annoying.
Not really egc is killer sided just close it and if the doors spawn close you get a win guarenteed that's why they ate changing it.
survivors refusing to do gens is holding the game hostage, and it is a reportable offense.
camping and tunneling and every other strategy you named makes the game end faster so lmao
and thanks to no sounds bug which is probably intended and stealth perks finding survivors is totaly impossible when they do nothing
ive never seen a 3 gen strat make the game to go on for this absurd amouth of time never ever in my life and even tho its slowing the game down, the killer is still trying to kill you, not just get you off the gens
A three gen strat is strong (and a legitimate strategy), but not impossible to overcome as a survivor. That is nothing like being immersed and the killer searching for you on the other side of the map, and not actually doing anything.
Besides, if you, as a survivor, let them get a 3 gen, it is kinda your fault in the first place.
You're really bringing this up!!!?? When majority the Killers will slug one and go find the 2nd person last alive so neither get hatch. We call that taking game hostage as well, and we also call those crappy killers who need to get good or accept you don't need to have a 4k to feel good. Stop sweating so hard it's a game lmao
Facts.
Those Killer mains will never understand. They all have one goal, and that is to pummel the Survivors in every way possible. Both mentally, in game and on forums, omegalul.
Wow there are so many entitled killer mains thinking survivors can still take games hostage in the current state of the game. God you guys are cry babies. What else do you want? Survivors to have -200 speed decrease?
How about +200% sportsmanship?
They absolutely can take the game hostage, why are you denying it? The introduction of EGC only solved the issue with one survivor hiding and doing nothing. If two survivors decide to hide and chill their n*ts, there's nothing the killer can do to force them out of their rabbit hole. This has nothing to do with being a cry baby. The other way around, survivors doing that are severely lacking any sportmanship.
So "what else do [we] want"? Easy, a mechanic that forces the survivors to do something after a certain amount of time. Is that so unreasonable? No one asked for such a stupid thing like you proclaimed, so instead of hyperboling, you could proof yourself useful for the course of the discussion. Otherwise, just shut your trap, please.
dont killer do the same? slugging the last 2 survivors over and over again till one of them bleed out?
when killer do strats like that its fine i guess.
@Raven014
I never claimed who’s fault it was and never even brought that up.
All I said is, you can’t kill what you refuse to chase. Simple.
I don't really consider hiding and not doing objectives in a 2v1 scenario as taking the game for hostage. The only real way for me for a survivors to hold the game hostage is if they abuse some spot where the killer can't catch them or pick them up. The only time I am ever bothered with the last two survivors hiding and not doing gens is if the map is way to big (Red Forest, Sanctum of Wrath, Haddonfield etc.) Becasue if it's a small map then it shouldn't be to difficult to find them if you know the map well. Besides it is the killers job to find said survivors so it's technically not taking the game for hostage if you can actually still do your objective without any interruption of some kind. I have always been very open about this and I actually do think slugging for the 4K is somewhat taking the game for hostage cause apart from Unbreakable and maybe Soul Guard there is very little a survivor can actually do. AND even if I use Unbreakable nobody is stopping the killer to just down the other person and begin the whole slug process again. So from a 4 to 8 minute timer maximum of the survivor either waiting for the killer to finally kill the survivor and not elongate the game or taking the chance to pick up the other survivor and evade the slug process again. It's boring for both sides and I will probably never be in favor of it unless they either reduce the timer in these specific 2v1 situations or add a way to kill myself while being absolutely useless crawling on the floor. Camping in 2v1 situation while sometimes annoying, is much more easier to "end" because one glimpse of the survivor and it's over.