Stop blaming DS for lack of strategy.
Im honestly sick and tired of seeing the complaints about DS. I'm a 6k hour killer main with 16.5k kills yes i know this matter little. Ds does NOT affect my games in the least. sure... there are situations when i get dsd in the gate and they escape BUT.... It VERY rarely gets to endgame. i'm not trying to say i'm the greatest killer in the world but the only time it gets to endgame is when im facing that 0.5% 4 stack on comms with metas. it really isn't the perk that's a problem its your strat and swf breaks the game if the survivors are really good at the game. SLug em it's still map pressure not as good as a hook, but still pressure. just play the game guys you win you win you lose you lose. it is that simple
GGS
Comments
But you got outplayed by a perk . Not by being mind gamed or the like..
People say it is 60 seconds of immunity, because you wouldn't make the same play without it. You would not try to do the gen in the killers face if you didn't .
Couldn't you also use the argument that if a killer tunnels you, you could loop better, teammates could take a hit, you could lose the killer, if not , you got outplayed.
Really the only thing that bugs me about DS are those situations i explained before.
I don't care about them jumping in a locker or doing a gen after getting unhooked or whatever.
I definetely know what to do.I just slug or ignore them if they got unhooked recently and i know it's a more or less necessary perk because of the way certain people play.Situations i meant doesn't happen very often either,but when they do happen it just fells unfair.
And from the video i can tell that the survivor you played against were mostly very inexperienced and were really bad at the chases.In that case it's super easy to avoid DS and remember which survivor got unhooked recently.
I'm talking about the type of games that are really stressful and make it way harder to remember when a survivor got unhooked recently after i hooked another one
No you got outplayed by falling for a perk. It's in your control to avoid it, therefore if you get hit with it you made the mistake. It's not the perk's fault.
DS adds a dynamic to the game that forces you to adjust your strategy as killer. The reason you have problems is because you don't want to adjust your strategy. You want to be able to do what you want to do without flexibility. That's not how games between opposing players work.
Your strategy should be fluid and dependent on the strategies your opponent is using. They shouldn't be so rigid that you just play through the game like a bot. Imagine using the same play every time in chess. Eventually someone would notice what you are doing and play around your strategy and then you lose. It makes no sense why you would continue to make the same moves if it's clear your opponent is playing to counter you. It's the same thing with DS. You have to change your strategy. Stop thinking you were outplayed by a perk and acknowledge that you need to just change the way you play.
And yes, you wouldn't make the same plays without it, but that's the point. You have this perk that will give you added protection (again not actual immunity) which allows you to take risks you otherwise couldn't. If you can capitalize on that, that's good play. If that means sitting on the gen and forcing the killer to grab you, then that is outplaying your opponent. If they change their strategy to account for the fact you have DS and slug you, then they outplayed you.
Also worth noting here that we are using the word strategy incorrectly. Strategy is an overall game plan. "I am going to fight for points A and B because they have the best defensive positions and the widest view of the rest of the map". Tactics are moment to moment instances of engagement. "I am going to rush point A from this direction to catch the enemy off guard then drop a smoke bomb to cover my movements as I take out the guy on the turret". Tactics feed into strategy. What we and the OP are really talking about are tactics, because your overall strategy as killer or survivor isn't going to be focused on single events or perks event. Equipping all basement perks on Bubba is a strategy, choosing to slug a survivor in the basement to chase down the rescuer for 2 survivors on basement hooks is a tactic. I know it's just semantics but I wanted to make this correction for a hot minute now LOL.
Because it applies to YOU. I don't think NOED is like DS. If they are OP, you would be using them. An example OP perk would be BBQ. Double bloodpoints automatically with free aura reading. Most popular killer perk.
Interesting enough, BBQ was added because of bad killer habits and DS was changed to counter bad killer habits. Hmmm?
It doesn't help to name a different controversial topic.
My problem is that i would have to put up a timer next to my screen just to avoid getting DS'ed.
Like i said i almost never have a problem with DS and i know it's kind of needed but it's those kind of situations that just shouldn't happen in my opinion.
My point was to say that just because something takes work doesn't mean it's a problem.
If that's what you gotta do then do it. Personally I don't find it difficult to just keep track. Again you don't even need a clock, just have some awareness of who was hooked recently and what you've been doing since they got saved. If you are unsure just slug them, you shouldn't ever have to wait more than 15 seconds, time which can be spent doing other critical things, and not enough time for survivors to help that person especially if you stay close.
Like in theory, you can have 4 DS's active at once. But this would basically require survivors to let you down them and hook them all at the same time. Pretty much like a farming game. A single chase against a decent healthy survivor is going to be at best 20 seconds if you outplay them consistently. More likely you are looking at 40 seconds to catch them. In practice, it is very unlikely to have more than 1 DS active at a time. Two is the highest I think would even be reasonable for any normal game and that's an extreme circumstance where you would essentially have 2 survivors hooked at the same time.
I understand the difference, I am a USMC veteran, and have used plenty of both in real life situations, but I do appreciate you taking the time to ensure we were on the same page.
You bring up valid points and I can see why someone may play a perk for a tactical advantage.
You almost have me convinced to run it now and again.
As killer I very rarly get hit with DS, but that is because of my playstyle, where I seldom "tunnel" all though we both know you don't have to be tunneling to get hit with it.
But that is what keeps the forums fun and the game discussion active. We all see things a bit differently and we get to talk to each other and understand a different pov. Thanks for the discussion!
Its genuinely only really a problem cus swf is ridiculous. I remember just plainly not enjoying my first 20 ish games of killer because I'd get obvious swf. Work my ass of to down the guy taking aggro, just to get DS'd. DS isn't really a problem, except that it allows better survivors to bully killers even more. And that only encourages swf where the only decent player pulls aggro and the rest just spam gens.
lmao boy you only have 1 use of DS in all the game, yall crybabies
NP
Main reason I don't run it is because it just doesn't jive with my playstyle which is focused around stealth. Plus I rarely feel like I need it. I do use it for my Yui, but that's because she is my OOO build and you kinda need DS if you run OOO because killers WILL tunnel you.
If you are wondering it's OOO, DS, Head On, and Off The Record. Head On allows you to make stronger locker plays with DS and OTR gives you 80s of free OOO after being pulled from a hook.
But I rarely play with Yui. Though once I got those sweet hot pants from the Rift I'ma be all over that for a bit.
Not sure how me being of a different opinion is entitlement, but you having a different one is not, but ok if it makes you happy.
They are OP because both can change the outcome of the game, noed can turn 0ks into 4ks and DS has the potential to do the reverse.
The reason I dont play either is because when I became a killer, where most of my time was dedicated , it was only noob killers that used Noed, I wont change my opinion on that. Run it is one wants to, but a good noed killer is not as skilled as a good killer.
DS I don't run out of respect for my time as a killer. So often one can get hit with it and not be tunneling. A 59 second DS hit after hooking someone else is kinda BS.
It really happens very very rarely.It's those intense games though where every second counts and you have to concentreate really hard that it happens (very rarely but it does happen).
Haha, I love it.
I run IW, Dh, adrenaline, kindred, I like information and I like to hide the best I can and help the team escape. This gives me a shot when injured.
Yea but that's what makes it really fun (at least for me). You are really engaged in the game. Granted I don't want to sweat EVERY game, but I also don't want survivors to be pushovers. I just end up getting depressed and feeling like a bad person when I kill baby survivors. I want the survivors to at least challenge me, make me work for my kills.
I also have a lot of experience in game tournaments. I used to play games competitively and ran tournaments for a bunch of games over the course of about 10 years. When you are in that environment you learn to suppress the tension that builds from the stress and focus on what you need to do to win. If you play any games with a competitive eSport scene I suggest entering a few tournaments just to get that feeling. At first it will be hard, but do it enough and you learn to just zone out all the background noise and keep your head in the game.
IMO DS is problematic. It can be easily abused and can screw over the Killer when they don't do anything wrong.
If a killer turns a 0K to a 4K because of NOED, then survivors made mistakes (didn't find totems, was bold during endgame)
If a killer loses because of DS, he had a very bad match and made bad mistakes. DS will never turn a 4K into a 0K. Now, a DS might turn a 4K into a 3K. Shouldn't be a big deal if that happens.
In that Scott Jund video i posted in the other thread you said slug them, i said you can't because adrenaline, then you just kinda ignored it.
This is the dude that thinks single photos of end game screens is valid proof
I honestly can't remember the last time I got hit with DS. It's very easy to avoid it. You guys are playing very wrong if you're having that much trouble with DS.
If you're talking about that one Wraith video where he's chasing someone to the hook, downs them, picks them up gets DS'd, they save then both run off with Adren he could have actually beat that. He should have known the last gen was close to popping, so what he should have done was just stand over the slug and wait until her Adren pops then hit her back down immediately. He might not know how long to wait, but that's what he could have done. If he waited long enough and the gen didn't pop he could pick her up without worrying about DS. If the gen never pops that means the other survivors are coming for the save which means he can potentially slug them and unless the last guy is ready to pop the gen at the perfect time that would probably be a W.
But he picked her up like a bot, then acted all surprised when he got DS'd and their Adren popped together. It was honestly a pretty dumb move.
And yes he could have had the forethought to do this. I've done it a few times, down someone I know probably has Adren and wait for the last gen to pop (which I knew would be within 10 seconds). It works. Scummy, but it works. They might still get out but you don't lose ALL your pressure in the span of a few seconds.
That would probably be the best thing to do in that situation. The problems are 1. He has to assume they have adrenaline. 2. He would still lose at least on of them
I believe a fair change would be to have a timer trigger and if you go down within that timer DS is triggered until the Killer picks you up if you hit the Skill Check it increases your wiggle bar by 70/75/80%.
1) You should assume everything until you rule it out as a possibility. I assume every killer I play against has NOED, Ruin, BBQ, Nurse's, Pop, Blood Warden, Discordance, Frankie's, Spirit Fury, and their best add-ons until I can rule them out.
2) Better than losing both of them.
Slugging was his only option.
I didn't ignore it, but you also can't pick up 2 survivors when you know damn well they were just unhooked and then followed it up with a complain that you got hit by DS.
And if they already reached the end game, then oh damn well. That's his L.
Next game.
This.....is a can of worms I am not involving myself in. Cheers! Im going to play Doom Eternal
keep assuming things,just like the people who say ds has any valid counter
It is the perks fault.
a single survivor using this perk essentially gives all four survivors decisive.
Slugging the decisive means the perk is working. Preventing you from furthering your 12 hook singular objective and you therefore got outplayed.
Leaving the survivor alone means the perk is working and "outplaying" you allowing them to continue their 5 gen 4 survivor multiple objective and your 12 hook singular objective has been halted.
Picking up the survivor and taking the ds means the perk is working allowing for double the chase time or furthering your 5 gen 4 survivor multiple objective ( the game is clearly balanced objective wise right?)
At what point is the killer in control here?
when is this one singular perk not impacting the killers gameplay in a negative way?
Who cares about that? We wont pick this person up anyway so let him waste his one time Unbreakable.
You are problematic with your statement. It means one of those points:
Some people, sounds like, cannot accept to LOSE in this game. It's a game, you win and you lose as SURV and as Killer. And DS is not a problem, the problem is you 99%, your approach to the match, the lack of pressure to gen, never ending chases and your lack of strategy.
The reason people are pissed about DS is
first: Even after a chase against another survivor you gonna get DSed if you find and down the survivor fast. This doesn't make any sense.
second: If the survivor has unbreakable and as a killer the survivor is just running at you so the smart play here is to down him - there's no counterplay. You down him bc you want effective map pressure (>slugs<, hooks, kills). But if you slug him no one has to take care of him. He has unbreakable. So he isn't technically pressured. After 24 seconds he's automatically back. But if you pick him up he DS's you. And if you don't down him you have to chase him 60 seconds and keep in mind that you can't kill im yet because DS can be still active...
third: Hopping in a locker reminds me of old facecamping. You can't do nothing. And again that's map pressure you can't take advantage of.
So how could you fix that?
Personally I would like to see DS working like the EGC. Once you got unhooked DS becomes active for 20 seconds. (kinda like BT).
If you get downed during the 20 seconds the timer runs a quarter of the normal speed. (up to 80 seconds)
During this time you can't pick up yourself.
Obviously Unbreakable wouldn't work and someone has to come to pick you up.
You have enough time to reach the next pallet or the next window if the killer decides to go for you. He is forced to give you a fair amount of time to initiate a full chase. This also pretends that survivors let them get downed right before the up to 80 seconds are running out.
And if the killer decides to down you he is forced to a) eat the stun and also give you a fair chance for another full chase. Or he leaves you on the ground and takes the map pressure. So he won't tunnel you but someone has to heal you up and leave the gen for a second. So he can take advantage of you. That pretends that survivors just run at you because they're running DS and unbreakable so that they couldn't care less of getting downed. Aka god mode.
So DS works like Borrowed Time. But DS is a one time thing so you have to make it worth it. You can reach 20 meters more than BT. But it leaves the killer to down you. In this case he can take advantage of you but you also receive a chance of getting out of this sittuation and not getting tunneled.
Why a quarter and not a third? DS would punish hardcore tunneling and facecamping the most. You would have enough time crawling away from the hook or out of the basement and your teammates would've also enough time to heal you up. This also helps so that killer wouldn't just sit out the timer. let's say you get downed in the last 5 seconds of DS being active. It would slow down the timer to 20 seconds. 20 seconds can still be enough for you reaching the pallet or getting picked up by your teammates.
And me when I am playing killer I would think of twice if I want to down you before you throw the potential pallet and just wait the last 20 seconds or if i give you the throw, try to mindgame the pallet and during this dance DS just runs out. In both cases DS leaves you a chance the killer the option of what's happening next.
I don't think it means any of those? I don't tunnel and I really don't get hit with DS that often because I work around it. However, I still think the perk needs changes and should deactivate if the survivor heals another survivor, repairs a gen, or another survivor gets hooked. But blame all the problems on me I guess...
you do realize Ds wasn't changed to solely deter tunneling right? Its Anti Momentum not Anti tunneling. But again there are ways around. and i agree about noed. noed can be taken out completely where as DS cannot. but i dont have a problem with either perk which is why i made my OP
Noed ? In my Opinion useless like Mori. Same opinion. Abused from high ranks like no tomorrow (even lower ranks).
If i was a developer in DBD i was already removing that Perk and Offer almost instantly
If you don't tunnel it has no power.
This is not hard to understand. STOP GOING FOR SOMEONE WHO WAS JUST HOOKED. There are 4 survivors, in a normal game only 1 DS will be active at any given time. If more than 1 is active at once then you are basically dominating them as killer. If you suspect they have DS slug them, you should only need to wait AT MOST 15 seconds.
I played 8 games the other night, every game had at least 2 DS players. Know how many times I got hit by DS? ZERO. Because I didn't tunnel I spread out the damage. I got a 4k every game except 2, one was a 2k because I threw the game to get my GF daily, and another was a 3k because the last one was a friend and I basically let her go. Red ranks BTW.
But yea, tell me again how it's OH SO HARD to play around DS. Maybe don't just pick up survivors like a bot, think a little before you act, and you won't get hit with DS. Or stop tunneling. You are doing one of those 2 things if you keep getting hit by DS.
It should never be for solely deter tunneling. It should never deactivate because "survivor did X" or "killer did X". These are all entitlement wishes. It's already a weak perk for what it is.
I'm just gonna leave my two cents real quick. I don't have that much of a problem with current DS. My only issue with it is when I down and hook a different survivor, find someone else I found before them, down them, and get DSed because their timer didn"t run out. At that point, it doesn't feel like an anti-tunnel perk and more like a punishment for applying good pressure. If DS was deactivated (not unusable, just reset) after I hook another survivor, than I would have absolutely no problem with this perk.
Oh OK so that's how you got all your kills. By being a trash killer and camped. I'm a rank one every season. And have no issues getting 3 and 4ks. I never camp. Ever. Rarely tunnel. And ds doesn't bother me. Also I know 2 devs have said they like where ds is right now.
LOL sure you "never camp or tunnel". This was one example of a game where I was forced to do this dude. I don't camp or tunnel unless I'm pushed to do it, and in this case it was my only option. Like you tell me why I should leave the basement when I have 3 gens right there?
Plus you seem to think I'm fighting against DS. I'm not. Read my posts. SMH
If you would like to learn what to do i play every night at 8pm est you can come watch. If i down someone off hook its to punish the jerk who thinks they can pull right in front of me. i leave em on the ground he gets up in 60 seconds so be it he doesn't unfortunately i'm going to hook them again. But ds is never detrimental to my killing is all. I don't see all the RAGE about it. Of course i've had games where it hit me endgame and i lost the one kill but oh well on to the next. I've double pipped with one person escaping which tells me 4ks aren't necessary to win.
PS.. i'm not trying to say im better than you i'm truly trying to demonstrate what i do which leaves me with no issue.
Just like people think noed is fine
I'm not him but as someone who mained OG Freddy I can confirm I bought him after a few 4K's with smoking splinters at rank six. Classic Freddy actually was pretty strong with certain playstyles and builds as he could waste survivors time sleeping and harassing them so they stay asleep more than survivors can waste Freddy's time looping him. (You had to juggle targets constantly. If you're being looped, disengage and try to ambush them) If someone wakes up disengage and go over to re-sleep them, etc.
Combine his potent stall and tracking (OG Freddy's base kit makes rework "Forever Freddy" look like a big joke meaning perks like Ruin or tracking perks are less "Crucial") with a tiny terror radius and heavy build variety (Paint Brush + M&A for no TR freddy. The drawings for extreme range, pill bottle for easy jumpscare or surprise grabs, class photo for easy sleep, Discordance to jump-start your Freddy game with 2 easy sleeps,) + survivors likely having little experience with Freddy (I mean, you're high rank. You probably face Spirit, Billy, Huntress, Nurse, etc. very often...but FREDDY!?) allows for easy hits during the sleep transition mindgames. Don't forget cocky survivors tend to "Commit" to a gen praying for a skillcheck during the transition. They expect to have 7 seconds but with addons it can be as little as 3 seconds, allowing very easy gen-grabs on survivors.
IIRC my most used Freddy perks were BBQ, Discordance, Monitor and Abuse, Haunted Grounds, STBFL, PYWF, Rancor, Bamboozle, etc. Very rarely did I actually run endgame builds. During the Mettle Of Man Crisis I'd often run STBFL, PYWF, M&A, and Rancor as a "One Punch Freddy" build designed to ignore the MoM+DS+DH+Adrenaline+Instaheal Mcloopypants all game, only to one-hit-mori them at the very end.
You're not ALWAYS going to win or kill everyone. the sooner people accept that the better. it was WAAYY worse before.
noed is fine!!!!
we were a duo BTW not a 4 stack
isnt Slugging currently the META strat for killer? If it was such an issue then surely it wouldn’t be one of the main ways to get a win as a killer? lol also, you don’t have to slug, why not hit the person unhooking (or you kno, grab them??) and then go after them instead of trying to be a cheapskate and tunnel the player that was just on hook? There are ways to play around Decisive and it’s not even that good of a perk anymore. My friends who like running decisive have been forcing themselves into lockers just to force the decisive because killers are more proactively slugging and countering decisive. If you’re too lazy to do it then that’s on you and not the ingame mechanic available to the survivor.
also as much respect that I have for the people that you named - their opinion is no more valid than yours or mine. Being a “top player” doesn’t matter in this game because you will still get paired randomly with players - and you can get extremely good players losing and vice versa bc of this game lol
so because a few high profile dbd streamers said they don't like the perk you believed the perk wasn't fair too? Stop the mob mentality, play the game and make up your own opinion.
so because he doesn't have the mob mentality of 90% of the killer mains on here, is your evidence that his stats aren't true? lol ok. There is doubt of course yes, but that is not evidence lol.
just to prove it in case people dont want to believe it.
i've posted this earlier on in the thread as well. and im not trying to flex im just saying i have time in the game i've seen a lot since it dropped on console. pallet vacuums ds all that but ds now isn't bad for me ds before used to extend your first chase with someone at least now you get the pressure you need earlier on.
Ye noed is fine and so is ds
yes i don't have a problem with either perk. Noed literally only hurts if all the survivors are bunched together. i managed to save the random before that encounter. and i've played about 10 killer games tonight and not one time have i been dsd with 4 ds in the game js
noed can also be annoying but at least it has viable counters unlike ds