Recognize the double standard. It's getting annoying
With Ruin being changed, I'm seeing a lot of stuff about "genrushing" and this often brings the argument that it's "efficiently completing the objective" with some people outright claiming it "doesn't exist"
Recognize your double standards please. Both sides, stop with this biased #########. It's getting annoying.
Genrushing is to killers as tunneling is to survivors.
What makes tunneling toxic and annoying? You are removing a player from the game extremely quickly. This usually results in a low amount of points, an unfun game, and a potential depip. This is annoying and unfun, as anyone will attest. No one intelligent will try to claim otherwise.
What is genrushing?
Genrushing is the act of completing generators extremely quickly, thus ending the game as fast as possible.
Did you catch that?
"Ending the game as fast as possible"
Does that sound familiar?
Genrushing is toxic and annoying because you are removing a player from the game extremely quickly. This usually results in a low amount of points, an unfun game, and a definite depip. This is annoying and unfun, as anyone will attest. No one intelligent will try to claim otherwise.
Now comes the argument "we're just doing our objective. That's not toxic. You're just salty"
Isn't that what tunneling is?
Genrushing apparently "doesn't exist" because the survivors are just doing their objective. You're right, their objective is to complete the generators and get out.
The killer's objective? Kill the survivors. Simple.
So by eliminating someone quickly, they have essentially done their job as efficiently as possible with no regard to the fun of the other player
Guys. Recognize the double standard. Play both sides, not only will it help you're gameplay, but you'll start to learn why one side talks the way it does. No one on this forum, on YouTube or Twitch, or anywhere else is the centre of this game and deserves to be treated like a king. No one.
Recognize the double standard. It's getting annoying.
Comments
If you go read the thread about game rules and punishment on this very forum, you'll see that bodyblocking is under the section "DISCARDED REPORT REASONS". With the caption "The follwing are not considered bannable offenses - Please do not report" in all caps. So just know that if you report for it the reports are straight up discarded.
The bodyblocking that is considered griefing is stuff like taking the game hostage with it (which is griefing) and survivors blocking eachother in corners to get eachother killed. Not survivors bodyblocking for eachother against the killer.
I fully agree that the in-game report reasons need to be more clear and probably rewritten though. They can lead to a lot of misunderstandings, and this is one of them.
EDIT: Here's the thread I'm talking about
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system
Okay.
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@Peanits posted this in May in response to someone asking if body blocking the hook is reportable:
"It is not. Bodyblocking is only bannable when it is used to grief (by holding the game hostage, or by blocking teammates to get them killed). In the case of someone blocking a hook, you can hit them to force them to move."Later he posted:
"You could always drop the survivor if there's more than one in your way, although bodyblocking is not exclusive to SWF. I've taken hit for total strangers before and complete strangers have taken hits for me as well."He further further posts in response to someone posting about Killers blocking hooks:
"There's a big difference there. Survivors could not force the killer to move out of the way, but the killer can hit the survivors to force them to move."https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/498909#Comment_498909
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@MandyTalk posted this in December in a thread about Body Blocking and that some people find it unclear and it needs to be renamed in the rules:
"I think we're in the process of going over the game rules to make them clearer for everyone - and yes this is one of the main ones that's on the list for me as it will make it clearer for everyone concerned about what is and isn't acceptable in game."https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/108631/bhvr-stop-calling-it-body-blocking/p1
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Do you need more?
"Just apply pressure" is an overused and often incorrect suggestion to make. Some killers are literally unable to apply the pressure they need to effectively stop gens without tunneling or camping. This is why Ruin was necessary, because it slowed the gens so that their pressure was possible. New ruin is literally useless to over 50% of the killers in the list because they do not have the mobility to effectively push survivors off the gens so that Ruin can be used. So telling people to "just apply pressure"? They can't. Literally, over 50% of then just can't. And then everyone will complain that they only see hillbilly and the occasional Nurse and Spirit. Once hillbilly gets nerfed prepare to see no killers since it'll be impossible to win coordinated, efficient teams.
No. Using the common definition of tunneling, i.e downing a survivor too quickly after they've been unhooked, or getting into a chase with them immediately after, it falls under the exact same definition and results as gen rushing.
Why should I go after the healthy, still 3 hook survivor when an injured, 2 or possibly 1 hook survivor is right there? And why care about people blocking or body blocking when it means they're ignoring their objective to try and save the other survivor?
Because it's a nice thing to do to make sure everyone has fun.
Why should I slow down on gens when my objective is to get them done?
Because it's the nice thing to do to make sure everyone has fun.
Imagine playing someone like the Clown/Hag/Myers and people telling you to just "apply more pressure" so Survivors aren't on multiple Gens across the map.
Oh wait. They do. How do you do that? I dunno. No one does.
I wish they all would play normal neither gen rush or tunneling.
We could go as far as to say that even hitting a survivor that's injured and just been hooked is "tunneling a survivor". Better walk away from them to find a survivor who hasn't been touched.
Recognize the double standard.
Best avoid the survivors all together and wait by the door to open it for them.
Recognize the double standard.
The requirements to gen rush is getting less and less because killers are quickly losing their counters to gen rushing. Imagine if DStrike was "reworked" the same way as ruin. Some killers would start tunneling every game right? Some survivors have started gen rushing every game. With no D Strike to stop tunnelers in this scenario, how are killers supposed to stop gen rushing without ruin? And I mean any killer including clown or Bubba. Not just hillbilly or nurse
there are different variations of bodyblocking, with only a specific kind of them actually being against the rules.
the report option you have shown is sadly not very specific in that regard, so let me get rid of some confusion here:
the bodyblocking that is referred to here is performed by the killer, where he blocks a survivor in a corner for extended periodes of time without allowing them to leave, therefore taking away their ability to play the game.
this is, with a video of the killer doing it for too long, a reportable offense that can lead to a ban.
however, the bodyblocking performed by survivors to help their team out is perfectly fine, due to the killer being able to do something against it - namely hit them. there are even specific perks / point score events just for this kind of behavior ("protection" hits - MoM literally requires one to do this).
in the end, bodyblocking is not reportable, unless its done by the killer for extended periodes of time (no you wont be reportable for blocking someone in a corner and chainsawing them right afterwards, dont worry).
I don't blame the survivors, no. I blame the developers for not paying attention to half of their playerbase and completely ignoring high tier players needs
Survivors can just go easy on gens in favour of points, like searching chests, cleansing totems, maybe distracting the killer for your team. But you also don't need to, just as killers don't need to not tunnel.
Some people like you seem to think it's the exact same thing but be honest here. As a survivor the main thing you do is fix gens, it's just you naturally doing your objectives. With killer you can go to other survivors but it doesn't really work saying a survivor is being toxic for 'genrushing' when unless they are being chased there is basically nothing else they can do other than search chests and destroy totems I suppose? The issue there comes with the games balance, not the survivors being toxic unlike tunneling...
If gen rushing doesn't exist then neither does tunneling. They're the same inputs with the same outputs.
When you tunnel a survivor, you are making the game unfun for them in order to more quickly complete your objective; killing the survivors. This results in less points, a quick unfun game, and a potential derank.
When you gen rush a killer you are making the game unfun for them in order to more quickly complete your objective; fixing the generators. This results in less points, a quick unfun game, and a potential derank.
Survivors have other options, though not many. The developers need to add a secondary objective in order to counter this. But as it stands, survivors can cleanse totems and search chests, distract the killer, or go for altruistic points
How is tunneling the best way to kill all the survivors? Usually it results in the other 3 "rushing gens" and getting out.
'Bodyblocking' refers to when a killer gets you in a spot you cant escape and just holds you there for ages (very toxic). It's not the same as survivors bodyblocking the hook and stopping the killer from hooking the survivor since you can hit survivors to get them out of the way and it's not something that is detrimental to the game and is a mechanic otherwise they would give killers noclip or some pushing mechanic. Survivors can't do ######### against killers bodyblocking and it just takes ages for the game to end and for the killer to just kill you, sometimes forcing you to DC.
What exactly is the "No" about? You pretty much say the same as me. The point I disagreed was just the part about depip and no points. But you don't explain why you get less points by tunneling. Tunneling actually grants you points the moment you do it. You are in a chase, you hit / down and hook someone. Points loss happens when you refuse to play the game, and that happens when camping the hooked survivor. And that are 2 different things.
Btw where did you find the common definition of tunneling?
There is no reason for bodyblocking survivors to be reportable. They aren't going to making: Holding the game hostage and bodyblocking the same as sometimes bodyblocking is only done for a minute and not holding the game hostage and they aren't making it super long winded. Mettle of man literally is built around taking hits which killers won't often give you and the only reason for it is so you can help people wiggle free. It's called a protection hit for a reason and it's because you are protecting the survivor from the hook. It's a gameplay feature that's literally part of the game otherwise they would've made many things that could prevent it just when the killer is holding a survivor. They can't implement a system where survivors can push killers whenever just incase they are being bodyblocked as that would cause a plethora of issues.
A moderator/developer or whatever it is and responded to someone else somewhere and it basically shows you you're wrong so there's proof. People that make and know the rules, now you can stop acting like everything you say is the truth :)
And then complaining about NOED. And you would wonder what game wrecking stupidity survivors do for that measly 1000 points on unhooking, just because it is a 5 second action instead of a 14 second action. And how fast multiple survivors can run to be the first to do so
It's the exact same thing. If you read the post I talked about how in both you are taking them out of the game quickly, ruining their fun, taking points from them and deranking them. They are exactly the same except that you have more ways to stop tunneling than you do to stop gen rushing
That's camping. Tunneling is much quicker and once their DS is out of the way, or they don't have one in the first place, you can move on to another survivor quickly. However with current gen speeds even tunneling won't be enough to kill everyone or even 2 people before gens are done
Tunneling doesn't work that way. It takes 3 hooks each taking at least a minute if they have DS. Factor in BT and a god loop and it's not that efficient.
Oh my... it was terrible. Chat was on slowmode for one or two full days.
It is if it is a weak Survivor. That's what I usually do, I find the weakest link and get rid of them first. Doesn't matter how good the other three are, a 3v1 is in my favor, no matter what they do.
I'm talking about a points loss for the person having the action done to them. Genrushed killers get no points and tunnelled survivors get no points.
I will tunnel if I see survivors being altruistic to the point of self sabotage. Just makes the game easier for me. Idgaf if they complain about it being less fun. If someone is going to rush an unhook, I'm going to punish their team for it.
The difference between tunneling and doing gens is the killer has three other targets to pick from. If not being chased what else do you want the survivor to do? The only other thing that can be done is totems and chests. And there's only so many of those. I'd also argue it's only gen rushing if there's at least two toolboxes.
Then you should not complain when you get genrushed. Tunneling is to survivors and genrush is to killers. You are removing a player out of the game quickly in order to complete your objective efficiently. When you get genrushed, they're doing the same thing to you. Both are unfun to play against but sometimes are necessary and are always a valid strategy.
Just don't complain when you get genrushed if you tunnel regularly. If you don't tunnel regularly then by all means complain about genrush.
I should add on to that point @JordanMalicious that if you are being genrushed you have the right to tunnel a survivor. Once again, they're one and the same. If you play fair and they start genrushing you, start tunneling. It's the only way you'll have a chance of winning and even then you'll probably still lose but that's how killer works.
The amount of toolboxes, the perks they run, none of that matters. What matters is how they play. The survivor, though they don't have many, still have other objectives to choose from. Cleanse some totems, search a chest, find the injured player and heal them, sabotage some hooks in the area, go for unhooks, move to a different generator to break up the 3 gen group. If you've done all the totems and chests and nobody is dead yet then by all means finish the gens and get out. You've given this guy as much of a chance as he's given you by not tunneling.
If he starts tunneling then for the sake of the guy being tunneled, rush the gens as fast as you can. He gave up that right to not be genrushed when he started tunneling. Just like survivors give up their right to not be tunneled when they start genrushing.
Its not that people don’t recognize “gen rushing” it’s that most killers on here want to claim their losses as “I got gen rushed”. When many times it is not the case at all.
Rushing a gen doesn’t mean it is toxic either. At some points you have to try to out pace the killer if everyone is getting hooked left and right with no gens done. How in the world is that toxic??
Also, I don’t see how Tunneling is the same thing when you lose the game because you tunnel, in most cases.
You can only sabo hooks if you have a toolbox. And killers get angry if you sabo the hooks. As for the other stuff. I and most other survivors do those things. But they don't take much time. That's why I say you can't call it gen rushing without at least a couple of toolboxes. I suppose you could say if nobody heals. All they do is unhook and work gens. That would also be gen rushing.
True
Genrushing only exists if you literally ignore all other objectives to complete generators. Don't do totems, let teammates die on hook, etc. So this really only either applies to survivors that are generally bad teammates or those sweaty SWF deathsquads in red ranks. Simply doing the generators when you're supposed to isn't genrushing, that's like saying that staying near a hook when you see a survivor going for the unhook 3 seconds after you hook them is camping.
Well, i agree with what you say and i am also fine with "genrush" and "getting tunneled" but there is one flaw with your statement: The killer has the joice how he wants to play while survivors are pretty much bounded to their objective. Sure, killing survivors is the objective for the killer, but there are many ways to reach the goal while survivors just can leftclick a generator.
alright, that makes sense
Genrushing is the only thing you can do other than stand around. What am I meant to do, squat around the map and ######### on the floor?
I had a game against a Plague where she had thana, ruin (wasn't cleansed until all gens were done), Dying Light and NOED. They complained we gen rushed. NOED never proc'd because all totems were cleansed (besides guarded ruin). We did everything available and it wasn't a fast match. Some people just fling catchy phrases to justify wins/loss
@SleepyWillo
Yep, and as a Plague main, that is a disgusting build (btw).
I agree though, that's exactly my point. I think the real double standard exists when you can even admit that you can have bad matches, you'd rather blame it on a situational reason.
While the options for other objectives are limited, they do exist. Cleanse totems, search chests, get some altruism points, sabo hooks... And if at that point they still haven't killed anyone just do the gens. You've given them the same time they gave you by not tunneling.
At the same time, if they start tunneling just rush gens and leave. They've given up their rights to not be gen rushed by tunneling
There are going to be people who use the term incorrectly. You see it when survivors claim "tunneling" even though you hooked someone between. It's the same thing.
No, the double standard exists when people pretend that people on your own side refuse to acknowledge that you do the exact. Same. Thing.
Survivors complain about "tunneling" when they weren't actually tunneled far more often than killers complain about "gen rushing" when they weren't actually rushed.
Recognize the double standard.
This comparison makes no sense. In the case of DS people would tunnel because there would be no repercussion, but in the case of Ruin the perk doesn't punish a certain playstyle, it just slows down the main objective of the opposing team without much input, kinda like old MoM and DS.
@newavitar
How do you know it is far more? Do you have actual data or something? Or is that something you yourself came up with?
There are many double standards here. Everyone knows that.
No. Gen rushing was curbed before the ruin nerf because it either gave a secondary objective or allowed for occasional setbacks. Without it there's no repercussions for rushing generators and it's actually encouraged since you can't get off without being punished. New ruin encourages gen rushing just as old dying light encouraged tunneling
There's no evidence needed. It's common knowledge. If you want some evidence I'll start looking for complaints about tunneling versus complaints about gen rushing.
It's an objective based game, genrush is just playing, camping, for example is toxic and not part of regular gameplay.
Lmao killers on this thread think blocking a hook is body blocking lolol
fyi bodyblocking is what survivors do to each other, to control exit gates, get others killed, ect
I had no idea a dbd discord even existed