Why are keys so hated?
I have been seriously wondering this for a while, I understand it technically is a way for all survivors to escape without gates, but that's only when all gens are finished either way. The way it works is for 1 survivor to get hatch spawned is that everyone else is dead, and every other amount of survivors require 1+however many are left alive to even spawn in the first place. I frequently see keys being held on an even level with moris, and I simply don't understand why.
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The only time I can understand a killer being annoyed is if the Survivors couldn't get enough gens done and they are down to one Survivor, the Killer has closed the hatch, and the Survivor uses a key to escape. That I can understand.
But killer mains get so testy about multiple Survivors escaping thru a hatch, usually when the requisite generators are done or when all gens are done but the killer has easy access to two doors preventing them from being opened. In those type of games, the RNG of door placement should not affect a survivor team that has dominated the game for X # of minutes.
Its a broken mechanic of this game. Killers get annoyed if 2-3 people escape and they didn't deserve it, you play well the whole game- you don't slug, tunnel or camp, you know you're on your way to 2 pip. And then 2 people escape you close the hatch 1 man left and maybe if you catch him you pip.
Or if they t-bag on the hatch. Like they think they're good at the game because they found the hatch and say ez in chat. I meaaan.. this community dude..
The effectiveness of the key versus the Mori is exactly why the key is nowhere near a big deal.
What we need for all you whiners is to see stats that show how many times a key was brought into a game and used. Then how many times a key was used and how many survivors manage to escape through the hatch.
Then let's look at the success rate of moris and really open up this ridiculous conversation that keys are anywhere on any level as moris.
#NerfEboniMori
As I said in the very post you quoted, this is not about effectiveness and 1 to 1 comparison. Keys and Morii are obviously different. They don't do the exact same thing and don't have the same impact. However both feel incredibly cheap and are frustrating to deal with.
Morii are the more immediate frustration as they can can remove players from the game very early, but keys can completly negate all the time effort the killer has invested in doing his best to win, with allmost no counterplay.
It suck to be eleminated by a mori and it suck to be robbed by a key. It does not matter how much or how often. It just suck.
They effectively allow survivors to cop out of doing the objective. Very unfair for killers.
Keys need to go.
But even at the end of the game being the last alive, a key still works.
Usually only the keymaster gets out with me playing as killer so I don't mind keys.
It's because some killers consider anything less than a 4k a loss. I think it's ridiculous that you can no longer open hatch once you've found it crawling around, on the ground, with a key after being slugged. Kinda makes you question the devs.
It's an instant win button.
Honestly, its just a manifestation of something to 'hold onto'.
At release killers complained about infinites (REAL infinites too, not the pseudo-infinites you have now). I remember a killer commenting that once infinites were out of the game, there would be no need for killers to play sweaty anymore. I laughed.
People aren't logical, they don't come at arguments from that perspective. They are emotional and influenced by socialisation effects.
The long story short, after June 2016 killers complained about infinites and sprint burst that would recharge while in a chase without exhaustion. Fast forward 2019 and its keys and looping.
Keys, much like mori's are annoying but are kinda rare and don't reflect the majority of games. But when you get owned and you want to hyperbole on the forums, well it suddenly translates into every game is swf who all have keys etc etc.
Keys lower the objective time of survivors, can't be used at the beginning of the match and provide the user BP (escape).
Moris lower the objective time of killers, can be used at the beginning of the match and punish the user with less BP.
Comparing these two things seems not too weird for me.
Usually someone with a key does absolutely nothing but hide and screw their team for the hatch, then if the killer slams it shut they just come along and get it anyhow. From the killers side they just mad they didn't get everyone but from a survivor side needing a teammate that's the legitimate complaint. If someone has got a key on our team I can guarantee not much but the first 3 gens are getting done. If they got a key they aren't running a killer, they aren't saving a survivor, they're almost full on useless.
No they don't. Keys are a failsafe even when useless survivors are the last ones and end up finding hatch.
I play survivor and killer totally equaly, on both red rank, this is my experience with keys so far.
Maybe i am a lucky person when it comes to keys, but in the last 1000 hours of playtime there was not even a handful of games where the survivors escaped with a key. Maybe i am very effective to deny that, i dont know, but keys are for me totally irrelevant for some reason.
I am way more affraid of strong toolboxes or instaheals, please survivors bring keys as much as you want. The most powerful on keys in my opinion is actually the addon that makes you see the killers aura. While looping at jungle gyms, its very strong.
On the other side, as a survivor, i got moried probably 100 times so far.
Those arguments of killer mains that Moris should be removed only when they remove keys is totally absurd. A mori is way more powerful... and it is just an offering, you can still bring in your best addons. Survivor bring a key.. thats it.
So yes, if this is the deal (remove mori and key) then as a survivor, i am 100% with that. Its a total win for survivors.
Wasn't there a time where if the survivor was in the animation for hopping into the hatch the killer could grab them and prevent their escape from the hatch?
No..they simply reward failure...
Franklin's is available in the shrine for blood shards which you earn for free by leveling up so it is available for free
The Shrine is random and it could take months before it shows up.
Remember how long BBQ went without appearing?
Keys are fair and mori's are fair. They are the same thing. Survivors hate mori's because they die early and killers hate keys because survivors escape early.
If every match had killers bringing mori's or survivors bringing keys (or finding them in chests which is very very rare) then there would be an imbalance. That's not at all the case so there is a balance.
I know it sucks waiting but it will eventually be there... There's always the Steam sale right now plus the $5 coupon you can earn for free which makes the Freddy chapter free!!
How do keys reward failure? you did 4/5 of you're objective.
Moris do 1/3 of you're objective...
So?
Keys and moris are both extremely problematic for the exact same reasons.
Both end the game way too early and reward you with a win for NOT completing your objective. They cut the other team's game short and deny them a lot of points, and almost always deny a pip. They take no skill to use and have no counterplay.
OP keeps saying Franklin's is a counter. It isn't. Firstly, it takes a perk slot from a perk that actually does something so saboutages your game already. Secondly, nobody is dumb enough to go "I have a key and just got hit with Franklin's, guess I just won't pick that up and die because of it." Everyone remembers where they dropped an item, and you have all the time you want to safely retrieve it. Third, since the key's channeling ability is crap, nobody ever lowers the charges, so unless someone somehow takes 10 hits without dying, the charge reduction effect does nothing. Lastly, the only remaining counterplay is to tunnel the ######### out of the person holding the key and kill them before they can use it, which only works if they bring "keep on death" add ons, as teammates just loot the corpse and leave.
All of this also presumes that the key was in the lobby. Some characters like Nea can easily sneak a key in, because for some stupid reason she hides her hand behind her leg and can completely conceal a key for 90% of her animation. Plunderer's Instinct has also become a serious issue since they tweaked it early in the year, as it now gives a roughly 1 in 3 chance of whipping out a key in any given match. That's ridiculously high for an item that flat out ends the game, and could exist and be used without the killer ever even having a chance to see it. Even moreso that thesse nearly never have "keep on death" add ons so cannot be removed by the killer at all.
Keys break a lot of the fundamental balance of the game. A lot of people like to argue "oh but you have to do some gens for it so it's fair." That's nonsense. You have to get hooks for moris but that doesn't make them fair. The first 3 gens are nearly guaranteed for any competent survivors who aren't actively not doing gens for some reason. That's 2 escapes locked in two minutes into the match. The point of the game where killers actually have a hold on it and get some control is as there are less gens remaining. With one gen remaining, most killers are in a situation where they actually get to enjoy the game, pallets are scarce, they can patrol the gens in a reasonable time. Yet with a key, ONE PERSON dying makes everyone else escape. You can tunnel the key holder, but when they die the key gets looted and everyone's gone. You ignore them, and they use it, it's lose-lose.
You also say "good killers pip off 2 kills," well that's just utter nonsense. You clearly don't play killer if you think that's the case. Both keys and moris almost guarantee that the other side won't pip, through no fault of their own.
Hilarious this is the accepted answer. Give me a break.
Keys allow survivors to escape when they haven't completed their objective and robs killers of their chance to win in the end game. Not mention survivors are often toxic about it, waiting for the killer to find them and giving out some tbags before spamming "EZ" in the chat.
People like to act like any positive effects that happen as a result of the opposition's success is rewarding failure.
Exactly.
Because the key comes in play not only early but if you cant do your objective the key gives you extra points and boosts your emblems..moris do nothing if you dont win chases and punish you in both points and emblems..therefore..keys reward failure
Also your math is off..moris you do 2/3 of the objective
They do 1/3.
Moris ignore a possible flashlight save/pallet save.
They basically do 1/3 of you're work.
How is 1 gen early?
You know what's early? being hook, unhooked, tunneled and instantly being mori'd.
And that's not a key problem, that's a emblems system and bps system problem..
(Not saying keys are fine)
It's still two chases to kill over three,..constrew it any way you want but that's the facts..and what's early is when you get your second kill you black/ depup because someone got a key you couldnt prepare for prior yo the game..at least you always know a mori is coming..and I've escaped ebonies more times than I should and yet keys armt so easily avoided
rofl
Sounds like you've just argued for the removal of mori's too.
OMG I totally agree with you! My husband plays survivor in red ranks (because after 15 minutes if waiting he can't get a killer game!!) and I swear every other match is a Mori. I see people bring keys in the lobby but they never get to use them. Just for fun my husband will put on Plunderers Instinct and maybe every 20 matches he gets a key. He never gets to use nor does anyone else.
Seriously people stop complaining because you didn't win on the rare chance someone escapes with a key! Be happy for them and move onto your next game
You do know you can simply pick up items that have been dropped by franklins? If it gets dropped leave it there and pick it up when hatch is ready.
Stealth up to the hatch while killer is patrolling gens. Franklins did nothing to fight the key.
If you die say "hey i dropped the key here pick it up and open hatch"
The problem with keys is that the killer can play a great match and have a scenario with a "certain" victory for them (2 survivors alive + still 2 gens left to be done or 3 survs alive with a 3-gen-strategy) and then suddenly the killer just loses because somebody found a key. No counterplay, undeserved loss, free escape.