just_one_player
just_one_player
About
- Username
- just_one_player
- Joined
- Visits
- 1,268
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Sandt1985 said:
What you describe is called proxy camping. It has always, and will always, be a part of the game. If you want the devs to buff the anti face camp mechanic to also include all kinds of proxy camping, What you're really asking for is for each unhook to allow the previously hooked survivor to gain a free reset. Not the chance for a free reset, but a free reset, full stop.
Soft camp (what I mentioned) and proxy camp as far as I know, are equivalent terms. The time to activate (even when facecamping) is so long that it makes the mechanic practically useless. It's like I said, there is no reason to create a mechanic that is punishing for facecamp if there is no reason to do facecamp (without another survivor) since catches on hooks were removed, so this mechanic doesn't have much logic.
-
Fearmonger/Mindbreaker completely negates the frequent use of SB and Lithe, plus there are several killer powers that also easily overcome these perks.
-
What did they change about Chucky?
-
@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607670#Comment_3607670
Me personally, I’d make spirit 4.6.
Edit - or I’d heavily decrease spirit’s power cooldown. It’s much too long and addon reliant.
But they do not share the same limitations. There is not a single tile, loop, or map, that hinders her phasing effectiveness. Her power’s only counter (through senses) is auditory. This is why she’s 4.4.
I wouldnt make Spirit 4.6 but I believe Chucky really deserved to be 4.6 or have a shorter cooldown, but I know that's not going to happen anyway. When I talk about limitation, I was referring to the punishment that both have when using the power completely ineffectively, the difference is that Spirit becomes 4.4 for 15 s and Blight 4.6 for 10 s.
-
@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607670#Comment_3607670
You could make this argument about literally any other Killer, just because a Killer can be made 4.4 m/s does not mean they inherently should be.
I dont think it would be a good idea since making Blight 4.4 m/s would just give more of an excuse to make other Killers 4.4 m/s, and I really am not up to see Billy get put on the chopping block because "high mobility Killer = bad".
This is not true. I couldn't say that Spirit is 4.4 so Clown and Myers should be too. There is a huge gap between her and these and several other killers. The fact is that Spirit and Blight have good locomotion capacity and absurd chase potential, and it would be coherent if both were 4.4 m/s. I'm sure this wouldn't impact players who have already mastered Blight.
-
@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607640#Comment_3607640
There’s no reason for him to be 4.4. He’s not a ranged killer, and his power cannot be used at all times, effectively.
Edit - 110 speed feels absolutely miserable. We should never advocate for slow killers, it’s not fun.
So why Spirit is 4.4? She has the same limitations that Blight has.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606928#Comment_3606928
Thats only accurate if you have a truly representative sample though. Which would require you to pick out 16k random players. But nightlight isn't looking at 16k random players. Its looking at players who know it exists, and who report data to it, which is going to be a very specific, very biased subset of players.
Also are you just going to glaze over the fact that for a month if i played nothing but twins games where i 0ked every game i could single handedly take the twins kill rate from 61% below 30%?
This problem is related to the sampling process and not to the sample size, a sample of 1 million matches would still be insufficient, so everything you said about sample size is still wrong, especially in stating that the sample should be proportional to the population at around 10% to be representative.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606326#Comment_3606326
Firstly,
Nightlight is not a good place to go for statistics, because it is an extremely small sample size of the games that are actually played
Secondly,
Lets look at actually officially released data from a few months ago
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZHSW02L40K4Q/image.png
Usage rate =/= effectiveness. Of course something with a higher skill ceiling is going to have less use rate. Because for some reasonthis community thinks you always need to balance and look at "average" players. Even nightlight, which is not accurate, is showing something similar that the previously released statistics are showing. Look at all of those perks and think about it, what do the vast majority of them have in common?
- Windows of opportunity
- MFT
- Adrenaline
- Resilience
- Lithe
- Self care
- Deja Vu
- Sprint Burst
- Dead Hard
- Kindred
I'll give you a minute to think about it before i tell you the answer, but i really want you to think about it before you scroll down. Are you ready? Ok here we go...
All of these perks with the exception of Windows of Opportunity and MFT are perks that are either baseline, are are given to you on survivors for free from buying the game (or in the case of david, completing the tutorial). The 2 outliers here are MFT and Windows of Opportunity.
My explanation for WOO being there is that it is an amazing noob perk when you are new at the game and have no idea where anything is. It helps you learn maps faster and get to safety even if you aren't familiar with a map. If anything, this shows that WOO Should probably be made into a base perk that everyone gets.
What is the other outlier? MFT. Which this was before its nerf. And this shows that there is probably something wrong with MFT before the nerf. If its usage rate is SO high that it is actually beating out free perks so shortly after its release. Meaning you can't have it from shrine, you HAD to buy the DLC. This shows 2 things.
1) The singularity chapter was a financial success. Given that at least 21% of survivors owned the DLC, meaning that at minimum if DBD had a million players, they sold 168,000 copies of that DLC
2) MFT was a problem because of just how much of an outlier it was compared to all of the free non-paid perks.
You know what else those usage stats showed though? That self-care was the 6th most use survivor perk. Now, if we looked and balanced things based on usage statistics, this probably puts self-care in the "needs a nerf" range right? And i think we can all agree that currently self care is probably one of the worst perks in the game. So in short. Stop looking at usage statistics for your balance decisions. Especially from non-official sources.
Because do you know what else your "precious" nightlight shows? That
- Skull merchant is the most OP killer in the game
- Skull merchant, Twins, Onryo, Wraith, Chucky, Pyramid Head and DOCTOR all have a higher win rate than NURSE
- That all of those above killers and myers and hag have a higher win rate than BLIGHT
And if you think that doctor needs a nerf and is more OP than nurse, than i have a bridge to sell you.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606580#Comment_3606580
Sometimes that is going to happen. That is how statistics work. You have a population, and then you have a sampling of that population.
Sometimes, especially if you are correctly sampling your population, such as in political polls (which also aren't accurate but for different reasons) the sample will be correct. But that is assuming you have a large enough sample size to account for said population.
Now lets look back to nightlight. According to nightlight, twins has a 61.15% kill rate. But also look at how twins only is looking at 161 games played. Now, generally to get statistically relevant data, you want to have a sample of around 10% of your population. Which isn't always feasible. So you go with a margin of error and a confidence level to determine that. Now around 161, is going to give you a margin of error of around 10%.
This means that the actual kill rate for twins could be 51.15% or 71.15%. The lower the sample size, the less accurate your measurement is going to be. But that is assuming you are looking at 161 different players, which is not likely.
The point i'm making is. Nightlight is looking at such a small small minority of games, that i don't think you should be looking to it for your stats, as it likely is going to be far less accurate.
The other example is that the samples are inherently not random and are biased. Nightlight requires self reporting, which by its nature is only looking at a specific type of player. For example, i am a nurse main. And looking at nurse, they are reporting 715 games played for a month of data there. If i play an average of 2-3 hours a night, in a month. Lets say around 13 minutes per game (and queue times and such) that means that in a given month i can play Probably around 10-15 games a night. Meaning that i could personally account for HALF of those reported games of nurse.
Now what if i played twins a killer i don't actually play and am terrible at? I could probably single handedly tank the twins kill rate on that chart by just reporting every twins game i play.
The main point here, is that probably twins doesn't have a 61% kill rate, but that a handful of dedicated twins mains who use nightlight who are really good are pumping up her numbers. These could be players that are really really good at the game and aren't representative of actual reality.
This is why nightlight is not accurate.
In fact, NL's sample size is adequate. You're basically using a straw man by citing twins, as even a sample of 161 games at a 90% confidence level would lead to an error of 6.5% (I honestly don't know where you came up with the 10% value).
The larger the sample size, the more accurate it will be, but there is no relationship with the size of the population. You may have a population of 100 million, but if you have a sample with 16576 elements (which would be less than 0.02% of the population), you will be able to estimate the proportion of a characteristic in the population with an error probability of 1% and a confidence level of 99%.
I don't know what source you used to say that for the size of a sample to be representative it needs to be proportional to the size of the population, but that is absolutely wrong. All techniques for determining the size of a sample, whether for mean or proportion, do not depend on the size of the population.
-
@Header said:
I think people are overvaluing the amount of time deadlock saves
I think it's enough time to tunnel and maintain a 3v1 game with 2 gens, and I say that as a killer main.
-
@MikeStev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603959#Comment_3603959
Hmm.. i think you can only count as "nerf" if they change it from live version but these change are from PTB.
Just my opinion tho
Look at Alien, when they nerf his tail attack? After official release, right?
All improvements that killers generally receive from the PTB for the live version I see people callling as a buff (which is consistent), so I don't see any point in not calling the opposite as a nerf. But it's a matter of point of view.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604030#Comment_3604030
Yes, Chucky is also very short. This is also good power for looping. And he can hug walls like survivor which makes him so much better than other 4.4m killers. He is my new main, i could not win 80+% games with weak killer.
Chucky is easily in top 5 right now, at least for me.
I could even explain how quickly Huntress can take down a survivor and how she has more potential to slug/tunnel/camp compared to Chucky, but that's a silly discussion and I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you. Be happy playing Chucky.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604014#Comment_3604014
And i am telling you, it's not gonna happen because Huntress is not like Chucky and Xeno. Both killers have long cooldown because both killers have stronger powers than Huntress.
If devs are really gonna nerf her like that, then i will lose my last hopes on this game. Huntress is just fine. I don't mind some add-on changes but any nerf to her base-kit will be insanely bad.
Chucky literally becomes an M1 killer with 4.4.m/s for 18 seconds after using Slice and Dice and do you really think his anti-loop is stronger than Huntress's? If she loses a M2 hit, she still has 4 attempts.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603954#Comment_3603954
So what was wrong with these nerf? You are really not defending pre-nerf Xeno, do you? Where survivor was getting hit no matter what. Chucky also had similar issue in PTB. But both killers are doing fine in live servers. So what's the problem?
I am not part of dev team but i am playing this game pretty often. And i just don't see any issue with Huntress. Maybe they will tweak her add-ons. There is zero reason to complaining about something did not happen yet. Let's wait and see what they are planning. After that we can give our feedbacks. It pointless for now.
Dude, before you come with “us versus them” read the OP again. I'm not passing judgment on any nerf, I'm just predicting that the Huntress will probably get the same treatment. Just like Xeno or Chucky, it is impossible to escape her in the open field if she misses M2. There are literally hundreds of posts predicting possible nerfs or buffs. If you don't like posts like this, why did you come to comment?
-
@MikeStev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/399563/a-possible-nerf-for-the-huntress
When they nerf chucky?
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Chucky did not nerfed.
Xeno's missing m2 was so forgiving, survivor was not even making distance. I am sure it was so enjoyable for killer players but balance is not working with this way.
Huntress has limited hatches, she is 110% and she is losing speed when holding hatchet. So the nerf you mentioned is not gonna happen.
Yes, he was nerfed from PTB to launch, call it what you want, it was a nerf. Both Chucky and Alien were nerfed for missing hits in the open field and the survivor barely losing any distance. The same goes for Huntress. And I didn't know you were part of the development team to claim what will or won't be nerfed.
-
@BUFFDECISIVEPLS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599585#Comment_3599585
Blight isn’t meant to be able to hug tech neither is wesker oni shouldn’t be able to 180 and abuse a terrible hitbox the devs don’t care about the intended purpose of stuff
You are comparing survivor perks/mechanics with killer powers, with the first case being considerably easier to resolve with numerical adjustments (such as removing the body block while the survivor has the endurance status). And about Blight, what you said is simply not true, Hug Tech is a known problem but difficult to adjust, as it involves map structures and not just power. You just want to use the unjustifiable to justify another unjustifiable thing, which proves that changes are necessary
-
@BUFFDECISIVEPLS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599154#Comment_3599154
Body blocking is an intended part of the game and used it every form of comp
It is clearly not intentional for the BT basekit, the devs were very clear about the purpose of this mechanic. I also highly doubt they reworked OtR for this.
-
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0BFVLGKDJQ9A/image.png
Every. single. game.
-25% Gen, Killer goes to gen ASAP, -30% kick, repeat.
You spawn, you hear Huntress hatched ready sound or even much better, Nurse noise coming to you like a truck.
Someone gets downed neaer you, -8% Gen, -25% Resonance and God forbidd if you had two gens with solid progress someonewhere or someone touched the regressed gen, BUM -30%.
How fun is doing gen of a size with 155%?!!! One unique hook eats 55% of a Gen... what the hell...
Maybe its not crazy on weaker killers, but on anyone in A tier and above its super oppresive.
If you teammates can't last long or someone gets downed at trades, you might as well never touched a gen in the last 100 seconds.
Your numerical arguments are wrong, POP works on 30% of the current progress and not the total.
-
The DbD community sometimes can be a ready-made joke. I lived to see people defend unhealthy perks/builds that can only affect negatively the others survivors.
-
@JudithMorel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598934#Comment_3598934
that would literally kill the game, and logically would be the dumbest change in the game. that is a legit teamwork strategy to help your teammates survive.
I generally don't respond to anyone who writes "this would kill the game", because it already shows scaremongering. If old CoH/DH didn't kill the game, removing body blocking wouldn't even remotely affect the player base. But the fact is that body blocking is often being used in situations where it was not intended, such as BT basekit and OtR, and in these situations removal should be a point of discussion.
-
@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598909#Comment_3598909
Coincidentally, it also used to work during the end game as well. The issue here is at that point in the match, being unhooked made you practically untouchable. If the Killer chose not to go for you, you could still run in and take hits to protect the others. If the Killer did go for you (or was forced to because you're taking hits), you could crawl to the gate in most cases before the perk ran out.
In other words, as soon as you got unhooked, you were safe. There was zero risk because as long as it was equipped, you would be able to make it to the gate before it deactivated.
Is removing body blocking (beyond DS) something that is discussed among the development team?
-
@IronKnight55 said:
I get why you’re upset. Chucky’s power did feel very smooth when I played him on the PTB, but… was it really fair for the survivors? You could miss and then be back on the survivors ass in no time. I think this change is fair. You should be punished for missing.
It's not unfair, but this is the era where any killer power needs severe punishment if not used correctly, and that's why we'll never see anything like the Huntress again, see how much she can make mistakes without losing practically any distance of the survivor. Does anyone think the Huntress power is exaggerated and in need of nerfs?
-
If I were you, I would give up on the Singularity. It has a (small) number of fans who like its current gameplay, even though it is quite frustrating for most of the public. This causes it to be seen as a niche killer, although I deeply disagree that it's at an adequate level. I don't believe that not even the best Singularity player would be able to beat a decent and minimally coordinated team, but it's like I said, as there are people who like to play with it, it's unlikely you'll see any changes.
-
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583473#Comment_3583473
i dont will explaing again because it's was very clear.The standard of communication is whether other people understand your words, not whether you thought they were expressed clearly.
Multiple people are struggling with the categories you have created and what you are dubbing 'complexity'. You seem to be making a distinction between killers that have multiple powers, and killers that have a single power but learning when to use it is tricky. If you'd just called this 'multiple powers are a failed design' it probably would have been clearer because that's really different than complex.
So if we look at killers with more than one power, or who power varies during the course of the game we've got: Knight (one summon, but three types), Clown (two types of bottle), Pyramidhead (ranged attack, ground trap, cage), Pig (crouch, trap), Singularity, Nightmare, Twins.
The first three types of killers all have decent pick rates, they've definitely given a lot of attention to Pig over the years just what they've decide to do has confused the player base, Twins has issues and no one really knows why it has taken BHVR so long to address those, so that leaves Freddy and Singularity. There are plenty of other killers down there at the bottom of the pick rates/BHVR attention which are very straightforward. So you don't really have enough data to create a trend.
On the edit of the original post
Edited: many are pointing out that unpopularity is not synonymous with failure, which would make a lot of sense if it weren't in the context of a company. If a product is unpopular, the company will not pay due attention, which in my opinion cannot be considered something that is not a failure.On 'due attention' - some killers work well, even if not popular. Artist doesn't need a major look because the killer works. Same with Cenobite. Lots of killer players don't care for Singularity, but the ones who play him seem to think he's really good.
And as long as a portion of the player base likes to play a killer, and the survivors don't hate the killer, then BHVR is probably pretty happy with the result.
Also, if your theory is true, shouldn't Wesker/Blight/etc be getting much more frequent touch ups than they do? They're still calling hug tech a bug and how long has it been around?
If I say that all felines are mammals and someone interprets that all mammals are felines, the problem lies in the person's interpretation and not in what I said. In the second paragraph of the OP, I made it very clear what I defined as complex, but I agree with you that this may not have been the most appropriate word. The fact is that I clearly explained the definition with two examples, if anyone still interpreted that I was talking about skill ceiling and mastering, it's not my fault. Just as there were people who didn't understand, others understood what I meant without any major problems.
You placed all killers who have multifunctional powers as what was defined as complex in OP, it's an extremely simplistic approach, besides you ignored several other killers who have more than one mechanic such as Doctor, Plague, Demo, Nemesis and others. An killer having more than one mechanic does not even remotely mean that his power will be full of details (complex). The clearest examples of this are Demo and Plague. Of the ones you mentioned, those that really present powers with a lot of details are Twins, Freddy, Singularity and Knight, and of these, as you mentioned, only Knight has a reasonable choice rate, which comes back to what I mentioned: a trend.
Regarding the Artist, I must agree that in general she doesn't need many changes (that's why I didn't mention her in the edit), but Pinhead, it's clear that BHVR simply doesn't care about him. All that he received after his release were two consecutive nerfs (with a third scheduled after the current PTB launch). Even though it is unpopular and there are no major unhealthy mechanics in his power/add-ons (with the exception of the old engineer's fang), the treatment given to him is a clear sign that his purpose was achieved (sales) and now it is not there is more reason to give him any attraction. You could even argue that this was done to control his lethality rate, but this measure does not take into account that many of the deaths caused by Pinhead are due to the complexity of the power (many survivors do not fully understand his power and/or they don't know how to manage it), but it is easier for BHVR to nerf him to achieve the long-awaited statistic than to make changes that improve things for both sides. They just don't care.
Regarding your last paragraph, see the amount of content (skins) that Blight has already received. Hug tech is a known problem, but possibly difficult to resolve as it involves not only power, but map structures (there are much more detailed posts on this issue). I don't know if you've followed Blight's story closely since 2020, but his has received several bugfixes and QoL over the years, many involving collision and FoV issues, respectively, clearly showing BHVR's concern in keeping him functional. Compare with Twins, as you mentioned, with the reports that they simply crash and stop working, the problem has persisted for over one year, which to me is seen as ill will on the part of the Devs and the complete failure of this killer in every way.
-
Firstly, keep the discussion at a respectful level, there is no reason to be rude as at no point have I given you a reason to be. You discuss both, although you place more emphasis on the skill ceilling in the third and fourth paragraphs. And that doesn't change the fact that you're arguing about something I didn't write, you already started saying that the game needs more complex killers, showing that you definitely didn't understand the OP.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583759#Comment_3583759
The number of survivors under the effect sleeping impacts the teleportation cooldown, while the number of infected survivors don't afecct in nothing.
your second sentence on wesker is wrong. the number of survivor infected decrease wesker's virulent bound cooldown by 0.5 seconds per survivor. this is mirror towards freddy tp cooldown. your saying it is so easy... yet it is not easy. this is what i mean by complexity of freddy and wesker is of similar level.
Wesker is getting played because he is strong. Many people that play wesker also enjoy playing wesker which indicates that he is fun. Wesker is average/high in term of effort to learn ratio. freddy is opposite. He is one of weakest killer in the game. He is not fun to play, like he is 1/10 killer is fun from my subjective opinion. The effort to learn his kit is non-existent. within 5 games, you will think you mastered freddy.
Like I said Fun ->Strength->Difficulty to learn are ordered list to what makes a player decide to play or not play said killer. these ideas are linked. For example, if you find the killer hard to play, you might not find them strong. By not finding them strong, you might not have fun playing said killer because you are losing games constantly.
wow, this one about recharging is new to me, I really didn't know about it. But I don't believe that this alone puts it on Freddy's level of 1001 details.
I get what you mean, and I think the most fun killers, in general, are the ones with simple powers. See the popular cast: Blight, Legion, Wraith, Wesker, Huntress. Wesker may be a point of discussion, but the others undeniably have extremely simple powers, without an absurd amount of detail. In the opposite side, the unfun cast tipically has powers with several details, conditions and states.
-
@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583473#Comment_3583473
Lil bro, reread what I posted. I'm talking about skill floor, you're talking about skill ceiling.
No, you are not talking about skill floor, although you mentioned it at the beginning of your text. If you are dealing with something "very hard to master", this is a skill ceiling, as you even mention twice.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583473#Comment_3583473
i am confused. why is wesker in your words a simple power and freddy a complex power? Wesker's power has same level or more complexity as freddy. freddy has two active abilities and 1 passive status effect. Wesker has 1 active ability, 1 item ability and 1 passive.
In my opinion, the killer that are popular are popular because of 3 parameters. these 3 parameters are strength, fun and effort to learn to reward Ratio. Wesker and Blight are played because they're strength is high. Often when the Strength is high, it leads to killer having more fun but this is not always true. Some killer can be fun without being strong. Legion, Nemesis and Wraith are perfect examples of killers that are not strong but have huge fun factor for many people. A lot of players play these 3 killers because they have low effort to learn to reward ratio and are fun but not necessary strongest. they score high on other two categories for strength to not matter as much. After that, there is something in the middle. Huntress and Xeno is what I would describe as the middle. They're fun to play, somewhat strong and have a medium effort to learn to reward ratio.
Both apply an passive effect (sleeping and infected), but Freddy has several activation or deactivation conditions, while there is a single way to activate (virulent bound) and deactivate (vaccine) the infected effect. The number of survivors under the effect sleeping impacts the teleportation cooldown, while the number of infected survivors don't afecct in nothing; and in addition, Freddy has intermittent invisibility when the survivor is awake and oblivious when the survivor is sleeping, while Wesker has just a 40 m terror radius. Although Wesker has conditions on removing health status when a survivor is hitted by a virulent bound, I can't see, in terms of complexity, this being equal to Freddy's power. In the first half of the first macth in which I played Wesker, I was able to understand his power. To fully understand Freddy's power, you need to play against him at least once. He is a low-efficiency Swiss army knife, a bunch of details that don't help in practically anything.
-
@dbdthegame said:
I disagree, complexity in killers is what this game needs. The issue you're describing (poorly) is killers having a high skill floor. Killers like Wesker and Blight are very easy to pick up, with powers that are relatively easy to understand (press to Rush/Bound, hit during Rush/Bound), but they have exceptionally high skill ceilings because of techs, map knowledge, collision understanding, and many more circumstantial variables.
Compare to a killer like Singularity, whose power is complex and hard to understand for a beginner. You have to put down a pod, switch to it, tag a survivor, get out of the pod, then teleport to the survivor. Or even Artist. Put down bird, shoot bird, if bird crosses an obstacle, it turns into a swarm bird, which swarms survivor for X amount of time, during which a survivor will get hit if swarmed again. And you can place birds in certain ways to antiloop properly, or zone while chasing, or pressure distant gens, etc. There are many more steps involved with using your power for someone who's just picking up the killer, which makes it less likely that they'll stick with it.
Honestly, I think the "free" killers are the best designed in this aspect. They all have a relatively easy power to understand (Trapper has traps, Billy has a saw, Nurse teleports, Wraith cloaks, Huntress throws hatchets) but all of their powers are amplified in strength via the user's game sense, map knowledge, and mechanical skill. The most popular killers tend to fall in this category: easy to pick up, very hard to master.
The reason why you see a killer like Freddy played so little isn't because his power is complex (it really isn't), it's because he's weak, and has a very low skill ceiling. There is no cracked play, or insane game sense that will turn Freddy into a good killer. At the end of the day, you're still playing the redheaded stepchild of Trapper and Clown, with a half-assed teleport and a lullaby. I'm personally of the opinion that it's a good thing for killers to include a certain amount of complexity in their kit, as an incentive to keep playing the killer and get better with it, as opposed to having more killers like Legion, or Trickster, or Pig, whose powers can be mastered with an afternoon on the killer.
There is a difference between skill ceiling and killer power , and I explained in the post what was defined as complexity, i dont will explaing again because it's was very clear. Freddy has a complex power and low skill ceiling, Blight has a simple power with a very high skill ceiling. You treat the skill ceiling as complexity, which is not wrong, complexity could mean many things, but it differs from what I defined in the post, so you argue about something I didn't write. If what you meant is that what we need is more killers with a high skill ceiling, I completely agree, but I reiterate that this is not what I defined as complex in the post.
"The most popular killers tend to fall in this category: easy to pick up, very hard to master." That's why I wrote that killers with simple powers are the most popular, but I disagree that the most difficult killers are the popular ones, popularity encompasses both killers with simple powers and a simple skill ceiling, such as Legion and Wraith; but also those with simple powers and a high skill ceiling, like Blight and Wesker.
-
@LordGlint said:
I feel like your wildly forgetting killer nuance. Just because a killer's power description is simple, doesn't mean it can't be complex. Billy for example had a super simplistic description of hold M2 to vroom vroom run... but there's advanced tricks that arnt mentioned in the description. Things like curving or bouncing of certain terrain to reach pretty wild locations takes alot of know-how and made the killer more fun than just back revving.
You also have killers like Deathslinger that map knowledge plays a part. Knowing about changes in different iterations of the killer shack to shoot through tiny holes adds a new level to the character that allows Deathslingers to flex their stuff.
I feel like the difference though is that these are ADDED complexities that skilled players practice to add to their toolkit. Singularity on the other hand is REQUIRED complexities to function at the base level. Unlike the Deathslinger cheeky hold shot, Singularity doesn't really have anything extra to polish.
Yes, I didn't forget about the skill ceiling, and I made that clear when mentioning Blight. I'm specifically talking about killers powers that have severals mechanics, activation conditions and that apply different status (which is not the Hillbilly case). Complexity is a word that can be attributed to different occasions, and we are just using it from different points of view.
-
@crogers271 said:
Just because a killer isn't popular doesn't mean they are a failure. If some players enjoy the killer, that's fine, especially if those are players who didn't like other killers.
I don't see how Artist is that complex of a killer. Going off the idea that Freddy is a complex killer, I think the only killers that really fall into a similar category are Singularity and Knight, and the latter does fine on pick rates.
In another comment I mentioned why I consider them a failure, it's not just unpopularity but the lack of content about them, which is also a trend, mentioning an outlier doesn't nullify the trend in itself. And when it comes to trend, it doesn't mean that all complex killers will be unpopular and all simple ones will be popular, as I explained in the post. What happens is that a large part of the complex cast is unpopular while the opposite is also true, but again, this is a trend and does not mean that in all cases this will occur, like Knight and Hillbilly which deviate from this trend. And taking Freddy as a complex killer, definitively Twins are, but Artist is really a questionable case (for me she is a half term, not so easy to understand in first time, but she is not rocket science)
-
@GannTM said:
Killers like Singularity aren’t a failed design, they’re just bound to be rare, but I still would like to see more killers like that. Complex killers are usually more unique than most of the roster, and Larry is definitely like that.
While I do think there should be more beginner friendly things in the game so it’s not overwhelming for new players, us veterans need something advanced as well. I’ve been playing a lot of Larry since his release and it’s been fun learning a unique and complex killer like that.
I consider them to be failures given the lack of attention that BHVR has for them, both in power updates and new skins. Added to the lack of popularity, I can't use any other adjective than failure, but that's my point of view, certainly in your view it could be different.
-
@Hunkulese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3579652#Comment_3579652
The picture you posted isn't identical to their teaser. They're both unremarkable magnetic knife holders.
Yes, but if it's so common, what other films does it appear in? You just seem to be uncomfortable and looking for a justification to not accept that there is a relationship with Child's Play.
-
@Hunkulese said:
That's a pretty big reach. There are dozens of horror movies with knife racks in them.
Identical to this one? Please, show to us. More information are welcome!!
-
I particularly hate Nemesis' animations, they look very artificial. He running around looks like a toy and his M1 animation looks like a guy who has all his ego embedded in the muscle of his arms. Simply pathetic.
-
@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3577110#Comment_3577110
No rewards, only punishments. That's not how you make players change their ways. If anything, that's how you make them double down out of spite.
As said in another comment, rewarding killers for not tunneling would require exaggerated buffs that they definitely don't need. The game worked well for 6 years without the exaggerated amount of tunnels that it has now, and it would be healthy to make this action risky again. Not entirely punitive, but risky.
-
@Ghouled_Mojo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3577110#Comment_3577110
It would have to be something that survivors cannot abuse for other strategies.
So... we back to DS pre-nerf 6.1.
-
@fussy said:
Considering that people are still trying to bodyblock with it, make it disable on protection hit and I'm okay with it.
But tunneling should be solved by rewarding killers for spreading hooks, not by buffing any perks.
I completely disagree that there should be rewards for spreading hooks. Tunneling is not the problem, tunneling without a real risk is. This does not mean that in all tunneling attempts the killer must be punished, but there is a risk to be punished, who will lead to a decision-making (who at moment, does not exist).
-
@Krazzik said:
Maybe the solution to tunnelling shouldn't just be DS existing, maybe they could actually do something about it :3
Other approaches would also be very welcome. I just wish there was something that would actually make killers think twice about starting the match intending to apply tunnels. The old DS (5 s stun) did this.
-
@DemonDaddy said:
If you recall the change from 5s to 3 was made partly because the additional time was no longer needed to counterplay enduring. Old enduring was changed to just pallets and so ds was made to match killers base recovery. Those 2s were just so enduring didnt compmetely negate ds.
The idea that the perk has no value may hold true for some survivors, but there are still plunty running the perk and getting value.
No, the nerf from 5 to 3 s was not to balance the nerf in enduring, it was to “balance the meta”, as the developers themselves stated (as well as many other perks nerfs on both sides, just to force the use of other perks). The original concept of DS was to have a 5 s stun, and despite several changes and reformulations, it remained with a 5 s stun for most of the time until the midchapter nerf after the launch of the Dredge.
And yes, the perk may have a value if the stun is applied in an area close to a loop, but this is undeniably much more situational than before, which has caused a large part of the public to stop using it. This in itself opened the door for tunneling much more frequent. Anyone who played before and after August 2022 should notice the difference in the number of tunnels applied, this nerf completely changed the killers mentality. Even whitout old DS in a match, the existence of this perk was relevant.
-
@Shroompy said:
Im pretty sure they meant vaults related to a killers power, which would be Legion and Wesker
Myers just has his base vault speed increased
I read several comments claiming that Myers and Wraith were also affected.
-
@Cyber_Atlas said:
Empathy/Bond. Rotating gens when the killers hits someone after kicking your generator.
+ no one forces you to play alone and not communicate -> you shouldnt force the meta to change around a very unoptimized survivors setup
Empathy and bond dont say nothing about when a survivor will be downed. Nobody should be forced to play in SWF to counteract perks, by the way, the game was not even designed to play in communication.
-
@DashMonsta008XV said:
I want to be an original Nemesis main,make it happen captain.
Nemesis is the typical strong guy who has a small and thin tentacle, Dad Wesker is much better.
-
@fussy said:
In order for the perk to work, the killer needs to perform two actions: reach the generator, hit it and catch the survivor. It takes much more time than 25 seconds. No one balances perks for solos or groups, perks are what they are. Some have more influence on solo gameplay, some have more influence on swf.
From both sides of the game, I can see that the park can be depressing only if the survivors go down every minute or repair the generators very badly. On killers, it can be useless the whole game without a single use, simply because you have to spend all the time in the game catching a survivors. Yes, those 5 minute games on endless maps, love it. In case all the survivors are good at the chase, of course. And please stop crying about solo already. Solo, as a game mode, is totally fine, this is how the game was originally conceived. Your skill and/or your teammates are most often not.
It is not difficult to reach the generator for a considerable part of the killers who have mobility/teleportation powers. No perks or killer powers should exist with exclusive counterplay for SWF. It's one thing to be less effective against SWF and stronger against solo, like stealth killers. It's another thing entirely to be counterplay only if you are in SWF. What brings me hope is that the arguments that try to validate this perk are as ridiculous and disgusting as the arguments that defended the old DH (sToP tO cRy, juSt PlAy BeTTer), so the nerf of this crap will come, sooner or later it will go back to hell.
-
@Wewantjason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3266394#Comment_3266394
Its not a problem for me as survivor and gets minimum value as killer. I still think you lack game sense or don't want to run a single info perk.
We are two players who have opposing views on the game issue. So at the end of the day it's going to come down to either one of us is better, or we have differing play styles and no one is better you're just weak to the perk and I'm not. I have perks/killers I know aren't as broken as I say they are because others can deal with them and I can't.
I routinely escape blight spirit and nurse. I can't do ######### againt pigs or legions man. Die every time.
It's literally visible when pain resonance will be activated (for SWF and solos), it's possible to drop the gen when hooking animation starts. You talk, talk, but don't justify the solid counterplay against eruption in soloQ. By the time the downed survivor's aura appears, the incapacitated effect has already been performed.
-
@Hex_Rural_LTE said:
Match 1 - you were downed and slugged. Maybe a better player could have lasted long enough to allow mikaela to get rescued before they went down. Sounds like it happened pretty quickly.
Match 2 - Why are you stopping to point at her? If you don't want to heal her, just leave immediately. Bad play.
Match 3 - You should have split up as soon as you saw Bill in the loop instead of insisting on playing it together. You refusing to go a different direction is a bad play.
Match 4 - Sounds like there were 3 potentially competent survivors alive. Even if Ada was useless, the rest of you couldn't get 1 generator done?
Match 5 - Yui made a bad play, but what about the other 2 survivors? How did the game turn out? You just lost 4 games in a row, and you couldn't run the killer for more than 40 seconds?
What you're not acknowledging is that when your MMR goes down, the MMR of killers you face also goes down. You don't just get worse teammates against the same killer, you get worse killers too. If you're still going down quickly against these worse killers, I hate to say it, but you're not as good as you think you are. If you refuse to accept it, you'll never get better.
You're typically the person commenting on the headline, but since I'm in a good mood, I'll answer you.
1. I got downed after holding a Blight with ring and crow for 1 whole generation, he didn't just intend to take me down, as he has infectous fright, went after Dwight, hooked him and saw Mikaela near the hook to save, then went after her. But hey, it's me playing bad, not David blessing a totem in a critical situation.
2. Oh yes, I will run with a Cheryl running behind me and crouching every 3s asking for healing. Oh, pointing at the killer coming our way is a bad play.
3. How do I switch loops with a Leatherface being 6 m away from me? How am I supposed to guess that there was a Bill crouching behind a car (after all, looping the killer is bad gameplay, hiding when there's a terror radius is right)? Are you going to say that I should be with Bound and that's why I'm playing wrong?
4. It's amazing to see you reversing all the situations I mentioned. Everyone was on the LAST HOOK AND INJURIED except Ada who has NEVER been in hook and is HEALTHY and she is in the basement instead of having the slightest sense of empathy and helping finish the last gen or healing the others. It is not possible for you to think that the other three were playing wrong (from here on I consider you to be just a troll). We tried until the end to finish the generator, but in a 3v1 with everyone on the last hook it's pretty tricky.
5. There were only 3 survivors left, the 4th had already been killed and a Feng that was repairing another generator (remember that is soloQ, its impossible to warn her about the gen in 80%). After all, what is the average chase time good for you? 40s may not be an insane chase, but it's clearly not a bad thing. You are belittling everything I'm saying. (and I didn't lose 4 games in a row, I never said that, I said that all these matches happened on the same day, but not in a row).
It's no use my MMR dropping along with the killer's MMR dropping too, I can clearly see that the killers are low level, but it's humanly impossible to escape if you play with survivors who do the aforementioned things. More than 80% of the games I lose, I can clearly see that it's because of the teammates, but according to you “hey, you're the one who's playing badly!”. I believe you should also find SBMM fair and rank players according to their skills
-
@Peanits said:
At this point, a full blown rework (as in an entirely new power) is very unlikely for The Legion. I'll never say never, of course, but the chances are slim.
Legion's in an interesting spot where in spite of not being the strongest, they're very popular. All these years later and they're still consistently played more than a lot of other Killers. If so many people are playing them even though they're leaning towards the weaker side, that's a good indicator that a lot of people like the way they work as is (even if they'd appreciate some buffs).
We're at a point now where we have 27 Killers in the game. If one of those 27 Killers isn't for you, that's totally okay, there's still 26 others to choose from. But we're not exactly looking to radically change a Killer that a lot of people like just to make it appealing to folks who aren't a fan. To use the example you gave, changing their ability to allow them to disguise may make them more fun to you, but it would destroy a lot of people's favourite Killer.
A full on rework is something we'd save for extreme circumstances, where either the power is either very unpopular or creates a major gameplay issue (old Legion, for instance).
Could this be interpreted as a rework for the Twins? Haha, when it comes to unpopular power, I can only think of them.
-
But the number of charges for healing is fixed. There are 16 charges for healing, regardless of the speed change by perks/add-ons. The CoH solo heal speed without mangled now is 0.5 + 0.5x0.5 = 0.75 c/s. So, with 0.75 c/s, filling the 16 charges will take 21.33 s (everything ok so far)
With mangled, the heal speed is 0.5 + (0.5 - 0.2) x 0.5 = 0.65 c/s. At this speed, filling the 16 charges would require 24.6 s
If it takes 26.7 s at 16 charges, the heal speed with mangled is 0.601 c/s, which is not consistent with the calculations
-
The solo heal with the manggled status its 26.7 s?. On my accounts the healing speed would be 0.5 + (0.5 – 0.2)x0.5 = 0.65, so 16/0.65 = 24.6 s
-
@[Deleted User] said:
You're not saying anything that hasn't been said before. You are playing with people you don't know and so are not going to always play the way you want. If you hate it that much you just need to SWF.
That being said, SoloQ is not impossible. I'm able to get to Iri 1 every month so it can't be that bad.
1. I don't want anyone to play my way, but anyone who plays a multiplayer game would find it fair to complain that the team just doesn't try to win (I'm not talking about everyone, I also play with awesome players, but almost always has at least one quite below average);
2. Rank has nothing to do with your gameplay, but the amount of hours you play monthly. I can also surv iri 1, although I die in most matches.