woundcowboy
woundcowboy
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406613#Comment_3406613
You mean this?
50sec Gen
50% Brutal strength
25% STBFL
10% PGTW
22% faster Blood lust
10% less distance on hit
As if any of that is impactful….lol. Those changes are nearly meaningless.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406929#Comment_3406929
Totally believable.
🙄
Why would I lie? I’ve been playing since 2018, and I know the game. Maybe you aren’t as good as you think?
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@stvnhthr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406904#Comment_3406904
Naw, MMR is not really a thing. Every game it is me and three noobs versus at least a level 25 prestige killer. So MMR matches me with a high skill killer and gives me cannon fodder team mates. Usually at least one DC in first two minutes of play. Also scores for all players are way way down.
Nah, this is on you. I played survivor for 8 hours the other day and I died 4 times. Solo q, no exhaustion perks. Not everyone is struggling.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405070#Comment_3405070
Alright guy Imma tell you somethin that I thought was pretty obvious
When theres 4 people on one side and only you on the other, you have 4 chances that at least one of them is going to be a sore winner/loser.
When you play killer (which is obvious you play more of, I myself was surprised to see that I have roughly an 80/20 split in favor of killer) you cannot see the toxicity some killers project because you are the only one.
Recently Ive been playing MUCH more Survivor because I have every single killer challenge done but still have some Survivor ones left. The amount of BMing and toxicity in EGC is just as much (if not more if you consider all 4 Survivors as just .25 to equal to the 1 killer) and it didnt surprise me one bit. Because toxicity isnt tied to what role you play, its tied to the one behind the screen
I play a pretty even split. I went for a 4 month period of only playing survivor, and the number of toxic killers pales next to survivors. My own teammates in solo q were often toxic to the killer, even when we won. Very few killers BMed me.
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405210#Comment_3405210
Do you play nurse at all? You can't mindgame a nurse that just zones you and safety blinks and with recharge being gone there is very little incentive to go for risky blinks with the full cooldown. Good nurses don't go for blind guesses they zone you and then get their guaranteed tag. Unless you're on some of the few maps where there so many LOS blockers you can't ever realistically get vision without burning blinks on nothing the chase should be very quick.
I main Nurse and the person you’re responding to is right. You choose not to learn.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404734#Comment_3404734
The fact you actually think it's only survivors doing gross tactics like that tells me how biased YOU are as a person. Pretty gross to shame people when a majority of people wouldn't know what you're referring to with the review bombing
I’ve been playing since 2018, and the majority of toxicity in this community comes from the survivor playerbase. I also play both sides.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3404580#Comment_3404580
Well when you have a game where you need 4 people on one side and only 1 on the other, its a given that more people are going to main the former. As for DC's and review bombing, since they are more numerous its also a given that more bad eggs are going to be seen.
How ever, if we were to look at Survivors as a whole (meaning we count each Survivor as .25 instead of just the one) they DC, ######### and moan just as much as killers do.
No chance. Sure, killers do complain. But again, they don’t use gross tactics like review bombing and harassment, something I only see out of survivors. You can try to explain it away however you want, but the fact is that survivors continually stamp their feet and cross the line.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3403866#Comment_3403866
It aint just Survivors
It is majority survivors. Also see the mass DCs and review bombing survivor mains did once the nerfs were announced. I have never seen killers do something like that.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3403852#Comment_3403852
Game should be balanced around Supa Nurse though.
What can Devs do to improve the low MMR survivors to be on par with his Nurse?
Sadly, many survivors here really do feel that they should be able to beat someone who is better and more experienced.
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In other words, who cares about the killer’s experience. Nice to see such open bias.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402798#Comment_3402798
Your comparison is misleading.
Players who are skilled at the game aren't the ones who are good at math, they are the ones who live in the building. Their input on what it is like to live in a certain type of structure should be taken, but that shouldn't be confused with them knowing how to make a building. Especially when the builder has a variety of people he has to design the building for.
The person living in the building has a say in quality of life things. He/she doesn’t get yo decide how it’s built. It takes planning and thought to balance a game; it’s not done on spur of the moment, emotional reactions (which is most of this forum.)
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402798#Comment_3402798
Answer my question, no weasling out of it.
Answer mine first. Should someone who has no clue on a subject have any say in it?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402787#Comment_3402787
So the vast majority of players should have zero input on balance?
Would you want someone who couldn’t do math to design a building?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402781#Comment_3402781
It is not.
Do those players not matter?
Their opinions on accessibility, transactions, and front end stuff matter. Their opinions on a killer that they have no idea how to face absolutely don’t matter.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402739#Comment_3402739
So the game is Killer-sided for the VAST majority of players.
It’s meaningless to discuss the game from the perspective of people who can’t play. If people would do more playing than complaining, they would see what I’m talking about. Time and effort should be rewarded, not creating 10 threads that complain about non-issues.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402720#Comment_3402720
There is not a single piece of data that says the game is massively survivor sided. 61% kill rate vs 39% escape rate at top 5% MMR. How do you gather that the game is massively survivor sided when numbers like this exist? How low does the escape rate have to go before the game is no longer survivor sided in your eyes? 30%? 20%? 10%?
The escape rate is what it is because most players are bad at the game. When both sides are bad, killer wins. That’s why the killrates are what they are. I personally don’t care at all how mediocre players perform. I am interested in what happens when both sides know what’s up. In that scenario, survivors are at a massive advantage.
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@Pulsar said:
???
The game was at its most Killer-sided directly after 6.1.0
Undisputably the most Killer-sided it's ever been.
This language is completely misleading though, and I’m pretty sure you know better. It can be the most killer sided it has ever been while still massively favoring survivor overall.
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402671#Comment_3402671
I never said you didn't play survivor, nor did I imply it, I said things factors in even if you think it doesn't, and again I wasn't discussing whether or not one side is easier than the other. I play both roles on autopilot, and I escape a lot of my solo q games, and win the majority of my killer games, so what? It doesn't disregard anything I said.
What you said is that there are a ton of things going on behind survivor decision making. I’m saying that you’re making it way more complicated than it is, which is why I also said that survivor is easy.
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402506#Comment_3402506
That's no problem. I didn't set out to convince you otherwise at all, and there really is nothing wrong with differing opinions, of course, but thanks for chatting regardless.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402476#Comment_3402476
That's not even what I was asking about though, so it didn't answer it. The question wasn't even whether or not one side considered more than the other or what side is "easier", for one. The question was whether they thought that stuff had impact on survivor gameplay as well.
I really don't think we will ever be on the same page on anything regarding this game and I'm not trying to convince you either, but I really think you underrate things that happen with survivor in regards to a survivors decision making/game sense/etc influence on practically everything that happens in a match - whether or not you even realize it happens or not.
I play survivor. I was off from work the other day and played for around 8 hours, only dying 4 times. No matter how much you want you want to talk about game sense, survivor feels like autopilot in comparison to killer.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402386#Comment_3402386
He won’t answer your question but yes of course survivors need to know all of that. He’s a biased killer main and will only express platitudes that support his myopic view of this game.
I’ll gladly answer: survivor doesn’t have to consider nearly as much as killer. Info like if a pallet has been dropped isn’t possible in solo q. Survivor often gets to dictate loops and can be completely safe at strong loops, depending on if they choose to be safe. DBD isn’t a complicated game overall, but playing killer is like brain surgery compared to survivor gameplay.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400574#Comment_3400574
PR is better until the 7th hook of the game. If you've got 7 hooks, you should be winning.
You also get rewarded for not tunneling. Good design.
It’s rng on top of rng. You have to hope you get a scourge hook against different people on different occasions. I think that’s design that will guarantee no one uses it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3400415#Comment_3400415
You will.
Suddenly, since you can't heal quickly multiple times, injuring Survivors and spreading pressure is worth it.
DH was hard nerfed. CoH was hard nerfed. CoB and Overcharge were hard nerfed.
PR got a sidegrade.
PR was objectively nerfed. No one will use it
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Yes
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398792#Comment_3398792
I can't speak for your experience but i know from mine that hard tunneling can backfire massively against good survivors.
And it's the same for pretty much every person i watch playing at high level too. None of them go into the game with the mindset of having their first 3 hooks on the same survivor.
They'll do it ofcourse if the survivors hand it on a silver platter but they know it's a trap against good swfers.
Otz mentioned this on his video when he did the no tunnel experiment i believe. Against the highest level survivors hardcore tunneling doesn't work.
Also i'm having a bit of a deja vu here and i'm not the best with names so sorry if i'm mixing you up with someone else but i remember another convertation with someone with a nurse profile picture.
Obviously this doesn't apply to nurse, she can do whatever she wants. It's not the same game she is playing
I’ve been playing since 2018, and I’m pretty sure I’m at high MMR considering my win rate. My experience has been the opposite: the nicer I play, the more likely I lose. Nurse lets me play more for hooks, but you have to be defensive with most other killers.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398708#Comment_3398708
That's playing to win against weaker survivors, against stronger survivors that's playing to get genrushed.
If you are not getting a down while the first survivor is hooked against good teams that don't rescue asap you are already losing. If they leave people on hooks for 45 seconds per stage and you stand there waiting to tunnel them out you'll look at having 1 or zero gens left by the time you are done
Ideally you want to get a kill after 4-5 hooks and pain res is pretty much the same or better when you play like that
That’s not my experience. I win almost all of my killer games by staying close to the hook/a gen spread. The “spreading pressure” thing is a losing strategy.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398362#Comment_3398362
Here is a secret many people don't seem to realise while playing with these kind of perks.
The perks do in fact not deactivate when someone dies. You are in no obligation to get all your tokens out before killing someone.
You can have someone dead by hook 5 and be ahead of current PR all the time with less hook rng.
You can have someone dead on hook 4 and only have one hook you are behind current PR to then instantly negate it on the next hook.
Comparing it to Grim Embrace is silly, Embrace does nothing untill everyone is hooked. The new Pr does.
My point is that if you are playing to win, you will be targeting one survivor and will get a maximum of 25% regression, if you’re lucky with hook placement. Once it’s a 3 v1, it probably doesn’t matter if you get more scourge hooks since the game is over.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
The only killer perks that got nerfed were overcharge and CoB
PR is a sidegrade at least and in a lot of scenarios stricktly better then old PR so i would almost say it's overall been buffed.
First hook (which is the most important as killers are at their weakest early game) is stricktly better by 10%
Second hook if you do anything else the straight tunnel is better by 20% in total. Which means you can safely go for the first survivor again and still be better of then old pr
4th hook on a third survivor means you're 15% ahead of old PR which again means you can go kill of the first survivor and still be on par with old PR except a hook sooner.
It's also less hook rng dependent now. With old PR any scourge hook you miss is 15% regression you'll never get again. With the new one you only need to get to a scourge hook 4 times to get full vallue.
Which on top of that also means that you don't have to break your scourge hook by killing survivors on them which means you'll pretty much always have 4 scourge hooks up.
Where with the old PR to get full vallue you had to break your own scourge hooks reducing the chance for future ones.
So in total less hook rng and more bang for your buck earlier which is better in a game where the killer is at it's weakest in the early game.
I can see some arguments that there are certain situations where it's worse, but anyone who says the perk is dead isn't thinking straight. A side grade more then anything
The perk is absolutely dead. It has always been rng dependent and now you are severely limited in its usage. It will die for the same reason that grim embrace never took off: hooking all 4 survivors isn’t optimal play. This patch especially will ensure that killers tunnel someone out immediately. Killers who try to hook everyone will be playing for a 2k against a good group, or against a bad group would win without the perk anyways.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3397546#Comment_3397546
Too many people saying the healing nerfs were reverted because of survivor complaints, and yet BHVR said in their update why they did it - because they didn't consider the effect that certain killer perks and add-ons would have on it. There was also plenty of killer main feedback who recognised how unhealthy that big of a nerf would be, and gave feedback saying as such. It's over on the PTB feedback sub-forum. Players can kick up a stink but that doesn't mean the devs should ignore the very feedback that they asked for when putting changes to a PTB.
Also, there were numerous killers posting here about review bombing the game when Eruption was getting nerfed, and the devs ended up reverting it a bit. Did they cave in because of complaints? or maybe they just took everything on board as feedback?
I am on this forum regularly, and the survivor complaints far outweigh killers’. Lately there have been more killer complaint threads, but overall, it isn’t close.
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@GensByDaylight said:
Like seriously, these posts do nothing. We're all playing the same game that isn't going to die in the foreseeable future as it has no competition. Just stop filling up the fourms with these posts!
For Us vs Them, DBD isn't two different games. Everyone is playing the same game with the same rules, on different sides. No amount of screaming at the other side means anything, as everyone has the same game.
For The Game Is Dying posts, whats going to kill it? VHS? That game didn't even come close to doing anything. The game will die someday, but screaming its going to die because something pissed you off does absoultely nothing.
Tl;dr: Stop ######### posting these types of posts they don't do anything.
The problem is that community outrage is often effective. People constantly posted complaints about Deathslinger and he was nerfed into irrelevancy, as was spirit and other killers. Survivor mains review bombed Steam when the healing nerfs were announced and, magically, the devs took back some of the nerfs. BHVR has set the precedent of giving into to uneducated and biased opinions, so people will continue to make divisive and one-sided posts.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395795#Comment_3395795
Tunneling isn't losing a chase, it's the killer trying to get you out of the game as quickly as possible by constantly and only chasing you. You can be tunneled the entire game and still escape. Sure, some tunneled survivors are bad, but it doesn't have anything to do with them being tunneled, because they don't choose to be chased by the killer right after being unhooked.
Being chased after being unhooked is not a skill issue. Losing chases to the point where you associate basic game mechanics with being bullied on the other hand definitely shows they can't keep up with the MMR they are at.
A similar context would have been "survivors who say killers bully them by using their powers are just bad", which would have been absolutely true.
(And for the record i never said OP was bad, just that the survivors they go against are better because they camped their way to a MMR too high for their chase skills)
Losing a chase as killer is not bullying, but your statement about tunneling raising your MMR is totally off base. I often have <20 second chases with Nurse and, if the survivors are efficient, the gens still fly. You cannot win consistently as killer unless you camp/tunnel. Short chases often don't matter very much.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392799#Comment_3392799
Just so i know what your point is, what match result, given equal skill between killer and survivor, should be the norm?
It should be able to either way, rather than the killer has an impossible match.
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@Chadku said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394244#Comment_3394244
Nerfed to be 10% for the first missed attack, +5% for every other missed attack up to 5 tokens.
After a survivor dies maximum amount of obtainable tokens are 3 (20%)
Gotta make sure it's as useable as Thanaphobia.
You should be on the dev team- this is their logic!!
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I definitely play to win. I don’t talk smack unless they try it first, but I’m also not going to cater to how others want me to play. I try to be courteous if a teammate dcs, but that isn’t enough for some people.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394250#Comment_3394250
That's why people have 600+ win streaks on both of them. Totally fair and balanced. In a game with an MMR system no less. Pretty sure 600 win streaks are more than an issue of git gud.
There is no chance any current Nurse has a win streak like that. And I guess this surprises you, but it’s normal for a very good player to win the majority of the time.
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@TheycallmeLix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394110#Comment_3394110
No she didn’t. I checked the endgame result and she had a green add-on with it. And the fact that you don’t even know this already says enough that the devs don’t play their own game..
You’re the type of person who doesn’t deserve to be heard.
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@Sandt21 said:
Personally, I don't see myself using it anymore, even with a ever so slight buff. Getting a 20% gen regression 4 times (sometimes less then four) just doesn't seem like a good use of a perk slot for me. Maybe if it were 25-30, perhaps, but as it stands, i can't justify using one of four perk slots on it.
It’s dead. The perk was already not great because it relies on rng. Now it has even more BS conditions attached.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392820#Comment_3392820
I know this is going to blow your mind, but 'winning' isn't always fun. And fun games aren't necessarily 'winning'. Hell, even 'good' games don't always mean winning.
Personally, I'd much rather have games where I get good moments or good plays or, god forbid, even have a laugh with the survivors than sweat my balls off every match.
Great for you, I play to win.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392799#Comment_3392799
Could you state the first sentence differently please?
Yes, it does. We can balance for the top % but we should never balance around them. That's how you kill off the majority of the playerbase.
You'll find that when very good Killers and very good Survivors meet, it's actually fairly even.
The issue is that the matchmaker and MMR is not designed in a way that supports that.
I’m saying you are acting like 2k is something to be proud of when in fact it shows that you didn’t win. And once again, the idea that balancing around top level play would kill the game is nonsense. All other games do it, many of which are more successful than DBD.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392742#Comment_3392742
Duh.
"Against optimal players, you yourself must also play optimally." That's true.
99% of players don't play like that. You will not encounter them often and even if you do, a lot of times they're chill. The vast majority of players don't need more than one regression perk if they play smart. Problem is, most people just want an easy and chill game. So, they'll take the path of least resistance.
Like, I just played against a comp team a couple days ago as Artist. One gen regression perk, managed eight Hooks and two Kills on Ormond.
How is this in any way evidence of good play? 2 escaped. Also, just because the majority of survivors are bad doesn’t mean we should look the other way when it comes to comp teams. It doesn’t justify getting the killer demolished by top % survivors.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392561#Comment_3392561
So, DH isn't worth using.
I understand what you're saying, you've just made a pretty poor argument.
After the update, probably not. Nice of you to assume my opinions lol
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392426#Comment_3392426
^ this comment is correct. If you've got that use out of Pain Res that early in the match, then you're already in a very strong position. 25% regression is pretty big, and definitely a big buff from the PTB version.
That’s if you get lucky with RNG and have a scourge hook close by. A perk that potentially give you no value isn’t worth using.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390092#Comment_3390092
Balancing around top tier play is not a good way to balance a game. The entire point to balancing is to make the game as fair and fun as possible for the most people possible. Only looking at high tier play which covers a tiny percentage of players will not achieve that.
@topic While I can see an argument for this I feel the core issue still revolves around BHVR. Specifically their inability to create balanced maps. Maps cause the biggest swing imo.
All games balance around top tier play. The fact is that it is unfair to people who have put in time to balance the game around people who don’t. Why play if my effort doesn’t matter?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388986#Comment_3388986
Well, at least now I know why you think Killers are oppressed and want them buffed.
I shouldn't have engaged with someone as biased as you but it certainly has been....informative.
Ciao
I play both roles, but ok.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388962#Comment_3388962
You've got to be trolling me.
This is such a bad take, how can you possibly think that way?
I hold forward and slam pallets. If my teammates are smart, they do gens. We win. Btw is this isn’t a humble brag post, as I do lose more as survivor than killer due to bad teammates. Obviously sometimes I’ll make a mistake and also hurt the team. Unlike the majority of survivors here, I recognize that relying on random teammates means that I will lose more, while people here seem to think you should be able to 1v1 the killer and win.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388722#Comment_3388722
And Survivors need to understand how to counter correct power usage.
It's not becoming of you to simplify things in such an unfair way. While I do think Killer is the more skill-intensive side, you must admit that your original assessment was unfair towards Survivor.
I don’t. I play both roles and survivor is skilless.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388662#Comment_3388662
Killer gameplay is just memorizing tiles and tapping M1.
Yeah, when you break it down like that, it does seem rather simple, doesn't it?
Except that there are major differences because killer has to be able to aim and use powers correctly. DBD isn’t a hard game overall but killer is significantly more challenging
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388648#Comment_3388648
Not so.
Surely you don't actually think that's all there is to Survivor.
Even I know that's not true.
I’ve played almost as much survivor as killer. It is incredibly simple.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388554#Comment_3388554
They shouldn't and they do not.
The issue, I think, you are describing comes down to DBD itself. DBD has a lot of very minor things that are difficult to learn and to pick up on after the MASSIVE initial learning curve is over. This means that the difference between a 500 hour player and a 1K hour player isn't all that much. However, the difference between a 100 hour player and a 500 hour player is gigantic.
With the way you talk, you are implying the game needs to be made “harder” for killer even though this would be mean that good survivors would demolish killers. As is, the burden of skill is already far greater on killers. Survivor gameplay is literally holding m1 and memorizing tiles
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388535#Comment_3388535
Competitive FPS games do, sure. E-sport games do, sure.
If you balance around the top level of DBD, the game will die. Make no mistake.
Top level DBD is NOT fun and it will not be fun for the average player.
Why should someone who hasn’t put in the time to learn have the ability to beat someone who is far better? There is no motivation for killer if the game is balanced around mediocre players.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388447#Comment_3388447
That's blatantly untrue and we should not balance AROUND the top levels.
All games balance around top level, welcome to every game.