woundcowboy
woundcowboy
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@BenOfMilam said:
...and entered the era of "weak in the 1v1 but is good at controlling gens" era of killers.
The "oppressive in the 1v1" era started with Clown, and ended at Nemesis. Only exception here would be Plague, who is a bit of an oddball. (btw, release Legion counts as oppressive 1v1)
The "3 gen" era started with Pinhead and has continued into Skull Merchant, although Wesker is an exception.
Anyone else getting this vibe from the past couple killers? Like Knight, Dredge, and Sadako? We're getting killers that suck in chase, but are strong in controlling gens. Skull Merchant is likely going in the same bucket.
I can't say I'm hopeful for the future of DbD killers. Playing strategically is fun as killer, but playing against it as survivor is generally hated (just look at how hated Twins are).
I might just be trapped in an echo chamber, but I think most people prefer to play DbD for the chase. The strategic play is there, but splitting on gens or patrolling hooks isn't rocket science or anything.
I'd rather be directly interacting with the enemy player and having direct back and forth play. Much more stimulating than executing simple cut and dry strategies with little to no counterplay.
What do you guys think? Have we left the era of 1v1 focused killers and are entering the era of 4v1 focused killers?
With the exception of Wesker, this is true. My problem is that I don’t think any of the strategic killers end up being worth the trouble. It’s better to have chase tools.
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@versacefeng said:
Are M1 killers really gone, or do you just rely on eruption too much?
M1 killers aren’t viable against competent survivors
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@TheSubstitute said:
For full disclosure I think Eruption has been over-nerfed if the changes listed in the patch notes go live. It'll change it from a mainly gen slowdown perk to a mainly information perk which is an interesting choice but that also further restricts Killers' perk choices.
To illustrate the it was over nerfed point, there are very few Killers that could actually make use of that information. The only Killer that I can think of off the top of my head that could get consistent value without constantly slugging would be Artist.
With slugging it would be useful for Nurse, Blight, and to a more limited extent Dredge, Sadako, and the few people still playing Freddy and Billy. The Twins might be able to use it to a very limited extent but that would require both planning and luck.
Those are the only ones I can think of. Is there anyone I'm missing? That's nowhere near enough of the roster to justify this hard of a nerf. It might even be better to just revert it to pre 6.1 Eruption as nobody complained about it before the Incapacitated changed to 25 seconds.
None, it is worthless
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Survivors still complaining even though the perks has been gutted. The aura reading thing doesn’t matter for Nurse- her map mobility is mediocre.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339001#Comment_3339001
But that's the DbD community's interpretation of skill being used, which I've always took issue with. At some point you'd think it would dawn on people that decision-making is a skill, and it's more valuable in DbD than players realize. Like...people don't stop to wonder why so many comp survivors aren't the best loopers in the world. Because it's not the most valuable skill for a survivor to have at a high level.
You’re right, and I’ll take it one step further: many matches are lost because survivors who think they are good try and fail to loop. The reality is that all you need to do is hold forward and predrop pallets. This is even easier now that you can tell gen status/progress.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337159#Comment_3337159
SupaAlf won 500 games out of 500 games with Nurse, so 99% is maybe even understatement.
I don't know any multiplayer game where 1 player allowed to have 90+% winrate.
4 vs 4 doesn't count since both sides need to have 4 good players to win, while in dbd one side only needs one player to win almost every game.
I mean I understand that you want to win every game as killer, while eating snacks and going for 12 hooks, but its still unbalanced.
Top players in other games win most of the time because they are better than everyone else. This shouldn’t be an exception.
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@shogoaluni said:
I always play survivor so therefore I have no idea how it is to play killer so I wanted y'all's perspective on tunneling. If you do tunnel, why do you do it? I am not asking out of saltyness, I'm genuinely curious if it is such a needed game strategy. Do you always tunnel, or is there something a survivor does to influence it? If you do not tunnel, why don't you? What do you do instead of tunneling to still have a productive game? I want to understand what's going on inside killer mains minds so it will help me get less frustrated by getting tunneled out some games. I also want your perspective on this type of stuff since I never play killer, i have no idea how it feels to be on the other side so I don't think it's fair to judge until I get some knowledge from the other end.
There is no other way to win against good survivor teams, barring huge mistakes by them. As killer, you pretty much have to play like that from the start since you can’t know how strong the team is until you get into the match.
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@VoidOfMe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334390#Comment_3334390
It definitely is a "mmr thing" as tunneling and camping are way worse now.
That’s always been the case. The difference is that, with mmr, more matches at the upper bracket are close to high level play. At high level, the killer usually has to tunnel in order to win. The game is imbalanced and broken the higher up you go.
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In summary: tunneling can’t be taken out because of game design. Also, killers are skilless for doing it and bringing strong perks, but survivor stuff is all fair play.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333443#Comment_3333443
But nobody's suggesting nerfing killers in this context, it is only being suggested that lower tier killers are buffed.
The argument is that leaving the top tier exactly where they are would result in them being slightly weaker, not that they should or would be actively nerfed.
Unless the buffs make them match the strength of the top tier, then it’s pointless to do anything. Buffing a killer like Trapper will do nothing unless the changes are insane. The game needs to be completely reworked/balanced. Buffing the low tiers will not have a significant impact.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333320#Comment_3333320
BHVR has also never said that their goal is only to buff lower-tier killers, so we're talking in the realms of hypotheticals here. Hypothetically, what is being pitched is buffing the lower tier killers to be closer to the top tier, while buffing solo survivor because it obviously needs it, and leaving the current top tier mostly where it is.
That sounds like a good thing to me.
The problem is that then no killers can compete with competent groups. I’ve said it before and I’ll say again: it’s not ok to not count the “edge case” of swf and then turn around and nerf killers based on a small number of people performing well.
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As with everything else, this update will only make already strong survivor teams more oppressive. Most survivors will still get stomped. I have no idea why they think it’s good to balance this way.
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@Mandy said:
Quality of Life for solo survivors is most definitely the goal of this feature - its still nowhere near the level the information that's obtainable in a SWF, which is partly why I'm emphasising quality of life here, as it's going to feel a lot better.
A group of SWF playing together doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be a crack seal team, they're still limited by their abilities/skill - giving solo players information is going to help for sure (a much needed help!), but it's not going to make them invincible as they still have to figure out what to do with the information presented to them.
As with any change that we make, these are things that we will be monitoring.
You constantly repeat the “not all SWF teams are SEALS” line, yet killer is always balanced around max potential/ top player play. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.
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The solution for all of this is for BHVR to add voice chat to the game (maybe proximity like F13 used) and then balance around that.
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Good, nerf it into the ground. Boons should never have been added to the game.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330045#Comment_3330045
Well, sure, Blight's gonna be changed, some of his addons are pretty overtuned, but I doubt you're gonna see people clamoring for a rework anytime soon, like they have been for Nurse. And Spirit/Pyramid Head are both still A tier, nobody complains about them.
Yes, no one complains about them because they aren’t used anymore. BHVR gutted them and now almost no one uses them because they aren’t worth using.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330031#Comment_3330031
Sure, people generally don't like losing, but you don't see anywhere near the volume of complaints about Blight as you do about Nurse, despite him being much more common on the ladder. The consensus is that he "plays by the rules" and so doesn't feel as jarring to play against. Most suggestions for changes to Blight are simple number tweaks and addon changes instead of overhauls.
The mark of truly exceptional multiplayer game design is being able to consistently deliver a fun experience, win or lose (Even if the former is usually more fun than the latter).
I guarantee you blight will be next. First we had Spirit threads, then pyramid head, then Deathslinger. All were nerfed into the ground
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330022#Comment_3330022
I mean, yeah, the devs are essentially gods, and what they say goes, but that's not a great attitude to have going into game design. The unused pallets and windows sitting around the map do not go unnoticed by Survivors. And having to forget everything you know about looping, the thing you've spent most of your time up to this point trying to master, just to accommodate a single character does not sit well with most Survivors.
And if a player plays through your game as instructed (In this case, listening to you when you tell them to forget all about looping for this one specific character) and they did not have fun, that is 100% the designer's fault.
The problem is that “fun” is code for “I don’t like losing” in most cases. The devs seem to not understand this problem.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329996#Comment_3329996
What makes you say it isn't that big a push? Little of what applies to conventional looping applies to playing against Nurse. No windows, no pallets, no tiles. Climbing to the top of a 2-story building barely even slows her down.
And I think a lot of people don't really feel like they're playing Dead by Daylight anymore when they're playing against Nurse, they're playing Nurse by Daylight. And given how differently it usually plays, and how often you lose anyway even if you're really good at it, it's not to a lot of people's liking.
In my experience, when there's one character that's so meta-defining, and changes the rules so radically that the whole game revolves around their abilities instead of the game's actual core mechanics, the playerbase hates it.
I’m saying that if a player has put in the time to master looping, learning Nurse isn’t that hard. Part of my point though is that most haven’t mastered looping either.
As for the meta/mechanics thing, it simply isn’t true. This isn’t a board game and no one gets to make house rules. People love spamming that “she breaks the rules” when the reality is that there are no rules. BHVR has put her in the game, therefore she plays within the game. People not liking something because it’s different isn’t justification for a nerf.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329856#Comment_3329856
And you, along with your fellow Nurse mains, have posted wall of text after wall of text attacking my character, insulting my skill, claiming that I didn't respond to certain talking points when I clearly did, and taking every opportunity to berate and degrade me, even when I'm not present. But it's all justified when your team does it, right?
I had the spine to admit that I was wrong. I've tried to be as cordial as possible. I've taken the time to explain myself in detail multiple times, even when I had to repeat myself. I cited my sources and used full, direct, verifiable quotes, giving you every opportunity to prove me wrong. But oh, I was wrong on this one specific point, so now it's all intolerable and everything I say is invalid?
If you're not interested in having a good-faith discussion on Nurse, just say so.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329871#Comment_3329871
So what solution do you propose to fix this issue with the playerbase? Because fighting against the playerbase is usually a losing battle. It's hard enough for Survivors to learn how to loop normally; learning how to play against a Killer that throws all the conventional looping mechanics out the window on top of everything else is asking a lot, especially considering it's hard to even tell what good play looks like against Nurse. Because even the best Nurse loopers still get caught anyway in a pretty short timeframe, what with her being god-tier and all.
Nurse is just one of 30 Killers; having high-level play revolve around her chase mechanics and nothing else is a jarring experience to say the least, and I'm sure it discourages a lot of people, particularly people who have gotten good at conventional looping, from getting into competitive play.
Your scenario is flawed. If someone has truly mastered looping (which is not true for most players), learning how to play against Nurse isn’t that big of a push. My solution? BHVR should focus on teaching people how to play and not nerfing things simply because people complain. I put in time to learn how to use Nurse and how to play against her; no one is exempt from learning because they chose to boot up the game.
At the risk of sounding like a “back in my day” person, why can’t people devote time to learning a game? If they choose not to, fine, but they have no right to complain about losing to someone who has put in more time and is better at the game.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329692#Comment_3329692
So on what exactly do you base your opinions that Nurse is just fine as-is, and everyone who complains about her or says she needs changes are all just noobs? What exactly do I need to prove to you to convince you that Nurse needs changes?
I base my opinions in my game experience (over 3000 hours) using and playing against Nurse. I am able to play against and have seen survivors who know how to play against Nurse. Even when I have a bad chase against her, I usually last longer than the vast majority of my teammates. I can’t draw any other conclusion than people don’t want to learn. As Nurse, an alarming number of people either don’t try to dodge me at all or they try to loop tiles as if she is a basic killer. The playerbase is the problem, not Nurse.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329531#Comment_3329531
Comp players would disagree. So what makes you think you know better than Hens how to counter a Nurse?
You cited one comp player. You don’t get to pretend that Hens represents everyone
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328206#Comment_3328206
I firmly believe that if more players would take some time to learn how to play against her, then no one would complain about her.
But the amount of players that just give up is simply to high. Which is a shame.
Why would they try when BHVR has time and time again proven that they cave into demands? There’s no reason to improve if the devs always listen to complaints.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328847#Comment_3328847
Exactly how does adding a limitation to Nurse's power "completely destroy" her game design? Was Legion's game design completely destroyed when they lost the ability to down with Feral Frenzy?
So if the strongest Killer in the game isn't too strong, a Killer that renders the chasing skills of tournament-level players largely irrelevant, then what exactly DOES constitute "too strong" for you? Why should I humor you when you move the goalposts?
Two things can be true: a killer is the best but not in need of a nerf. By your logic, there essentially can never be a best killer. Citing hens isn’t particularly compelling because I guarantee you can find tourney players who disagree- being a tourney player doesn’t make them infallible.
Lastly, killers should have an advantage in the chase. You are totally wrong that Nurse has no counterplay, but, in general, the game is supposed to make the killer more powerful than one survivor. The bs that m1 killers have to put up with should not be the standard. If you don’t agree, you should just play bot matches.
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@bm33 said:
I hope with the perk update they don't just nerf a perk that's in a good spot but used alot just so players stop using it. That was a problem with the first meta shake up perk update - alot of perks that were in a good spot were nerfed just to lower the pick rate.
They are going to nerf them into the ground so that they aren’t used at all. Look at BHVR’s history. The only exception to that is Dead hard, which is still an unfair perk.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3327829#Comment_3327829
BHVR did not buff the killer experience last year. They only gave killer uninspired generic number buffs to raise their kill rate. Killers aren’t saying “playing killer FEELS BETTER” after they got slightly faster kicking speed”. Killers aren’t saying “playing killer FEELS BETTER” after they got slightly faster weapon recovery time.
Nothing BHVR did actually made killers feel better to play. In fact, we’ve gotten absolute zero input from BHVR that they care about the killer experience at all. They might give killers generic buffs to fix their kill rate, but at no point at all have they discussed with us if they ever plan on making quality of life changes for killers.
They don’t care at all about the killer experience. What matters to them is making it so survivors who don’t know the game have a fighting chance against everyone, while balancing killers around the absolute highest level of play.
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@HommeBizarre said:
Thank for nerfing her, I don't really see the difference between now and before. People are still going to complaing about her until she cannot go through walls anymore lmao
And i'm certainly not playing the Knight outside of a challenge
The dumb part is, most of the people who were complaining will still complain because they will still lose and refuse to learn. As usual, this will affect her against good players.
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Two seconds is negligible. I also did my test with 0 addons since they are worthless now.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326652#Comment_3326652
Obviously. Nurse cannot be nerfed because the result would either be that she is still too strong (like it happened two times now) or too weak (which should also not be the goal). Making her M1s be special attacks and nerfing her best Add Ons is surely a step in the right direction, but a stacking Slowdown-Nurse is equally as bad, because she is still breaking the game with her power. And strong Perk Combinations which are good on any Killer (except if they require a lot of M1s) will always be stronger on Nurse. So unless BHVR plans to nerf every Slowdown-Perk AND make every Perk, which is not triggered by an M1-Attack really weak, making her M1s cound as special attacks will be a right step, but too little too late. And I cannot really see them to balance every strong Perk in a way that Nurse cannot use it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326658#Comment_3326658
And this is sad. Instead BHVR spends time to release 4 chapters each year instead of slowing down on that side, which gives us forgettable Killers like The Knight or Sadako. They really should go to 3 Chapters each year and take their time to work on other things like Perk Nerfs and Buffs, general gameplay improvements and balance changes (which would include balancing the Nurse to a fun and strong Killer, but not in its current broken state).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326689#Comment_3326689
Sure, she will be played less. Some players really relied too much on her broken Add Ons (e.g. a Streamer I know (know, not watch) was a Nurse Main, 13k hours and said that they wont play the Nurse ever again and only for donations... That person was using her with all the strongest Perks and Add Ons all the time). And others will just not play with her, because they think she got "ruined". So we will have a few weeks with less Nurse-players, but once people realize that she is fine and still very strong, we will be back to square one.
No we won’t. Killers like Spirit and Deathslinger permanently disappeared. Nurse will be no different.
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@Rovend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325297#Comment_3325297
Negative kill rate at the highest level? Where did you get that?
Last stats i was able to see she had a 61% kill rate at top 5%, so not bad at all. Unless you were expecting something like 80% or more
I don’t know about negative kill rate, but the stats clearly showed she isn’t an issue, even at top mmr. She is the latest example of double standards by BHVR: Nurse is balanced around the tiny percentage of players who are good with her, meanwhile survivors are balanced around bad players.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325269#Comment_3325269
Oh, I play her. And she has the best Map PRESSURE. But not the best Map mobility.
But yeah, you had "countless end game chats". Or just another sad try to pretend that Nurse is not broken.
I mean yea, I have well over 3000 hours on Nurse. But you’re right, I should trust the person that plays her every once in awhile.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I somehow missed the Threads where people claimed that Nurse is a mobility Killer. There had to be some, otherwise you would not do such a pointless experiment.
i’ve had countless end game chats that complained i was patrolling gens near a hook; the implication being that I should teleport across the map “because Nurse”. It’s a common complaint. You obviously don’t know that since you don’t use Nurse.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316116#Comment_3316116
Considering that I do the same....
Would it not be better if you didn't need to do that? Wouldn't it be better if the game was more fun for everyone?
Sure, but the reality is that it’s not and is probably impossible to balance that way. My main point was that it’s a mistake that so many people label that style of play as being unskillful. If it wins, it doesn’t matter
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315911#Comment_3315911
DS is garbage.
OTR and DH can't really be used well together.
UB is okay but nothing great.
Adrenaline is good.
PT is bad.
Hyperfocus is good.
Resilence is good.
BTL is okay.
I would like to amend my statement. You don't need four slowdowns if you are fairly skilled.
And what does that mean? I win the vast majority of my games using slowdown and camping. If it gets me to 4k, who cares how I do it? This idea that you need to win a certain way reeks of entitlement and arrogance.
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@Mr_K said:
Your mistake was buying into "perks are held back because of Nurse" arguments. Those were made to get her nerfed not strengthen other killers.
It’s always funny when people pretend to care about killer gameplay in order to get a killer nerfed. Spoiler alert: no perks will change due to Nurse being nerfed. That was just an excuse.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312255#Comment_3312255
Right, but the odds of you or anyone on this forum playing at that level are incredibly slim. I've said it before: I played killer and survivor in comp for years. I've yet to encounter anything in a normal match that even approached the game speed or coordination of competitive play. You are not encountering this in a regular queue.
Your experience is your experience, but as some who has played for 4 1/2 years, this simply isn’t true. Those type of games may not be common, but they happen.
I also think the people on this forum lose track of an important fact: we are the minority of the player base. I would bet that a good chunk of people on this forum are in the high MMR bracket (especially since the threshold is so low).
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311517#Comment_3311517
First where did we say we support anything other than balancing around casuals?
Second stats effectively mean nill as they're affected by SO many variables. For those stats to be something more tangible for anything other than curiosity, more details are needed.
Third, those nurses that are "unstoppable" still effectively ARE, they just won't be able to use certain perks as effectively. Those nurses are unstoppable cause they are GOOD.
Fourth, we joined Abit before doc came out. Survivors had TONS more broken things to play with which could make killer miserable such as instant heals, instant REPAIR, infinites, the oft complained dh, the list is long and most of it is gone now. Both sides (eventually) get their due.
Fifth, you still didn't give an example (admittedly this is just us being a beep)
You can argue up and down about the stats and things that go into it, but the bottom line is that Nurse doesn’t affect the majority. As a Nurse main, you are objectively wrong about her being the same. Check any of the streaks or high level Nurses on YT; they all use the recharge and/or range addons. Now, no matter how good you are with Nurse, it will take significantly longer to catch up and down. Good teams will have more than enough time to finish the gens.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311029#Comment_3311029
Then which asym game? Piruluk at least gave a list of dbd styled games but we have yet to see your example of one that is balanced around high lvl play and done better.
While we're against to much hand holding, dbd needs to mostly be balanced around casual play as that's what the majority of players are, not swat swfs or the perfect play killers. If they make changes that turn away casuals then the game bleeds out.
The other guy pointed it out, but I will be more specific: how do you not see the contradiction in what you just said? You say that neither side should be balanced around top-level play, yet you fully support nerfing Nurse, whose kill rate is insignificant. She wasn't even top 5 according to the top MMR stats- she clearly is not a problem statistically. Yet because apparently .001% of Nurse players are unstoppable, she needs to be nerfed into the ground. I wish more people would acknowledge this complete double standard.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311029#Comment_3311029
VHS balanced for tournament play it killed the game.
Sprit Detective/Soul Dossier balanced for top tier play 1 ghost vs 5 SWF on comms at top level, died, and dying.
HSHS balanced around SWF, survivors stopped playing now, game shutting down.
VHS was having much deeper problems than balancing for competitive play. They were hacked numerous times. The other ones I am not as familiar with. Either way, most asyms are small, indie games. Those type of games don’t always last. I sincerely doubt it’s due to balancing issues.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310798#Comment_3310798
Out of those games, which of those is like dbd? (An asymmetrical 1 v 4{sorta} )
Pretty much all asym games have attempted to balance for casuals, and they all are dead or low activity. Dbd is number 1 because of the licenses. Game balance doesn’t deter the vast majority.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310650#Comment_3310650
No, I did not say anything of the sort - so what I seem to be saying to you is not what I am saying.
I don't think any Nurse main with some skill feels like a match is impossible to win, if they do they are not very good with Nurse. I have been on the PTB too and Nurse is still fine
DBD may be a PVP game but it is not inherently a true 'competitive' game and can never be by the very nature of asymmetrical games.
It has nothing to do with mental gymnastics, it is just a fact that the majority of the DBD player base are unskilled survivors and if you balance for the top minority the unskilled causal majority will not play as the game will be completely inaccessible to them.
You are mistaking this as me saying this as my personal preference; the fact is BHVR have to balance the game this way or the game will die. You don't market and balance for the top 0.1% - this is just plain bad business and BHVR will never do this. Not accepting this fact will set you up for a lot of disappointment
No other game balances that away, including games that have sold far better than DBD. You have no evidence other than repeating the echo chamber on this forum.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310659#Comment_3310659
I'm not quite sure how you got that from that message. The Nurse was a hot topic and we have no shortage of proof and strong arguments showing that she was performing far too well, especially when certain perks and add-ons were being used. For us to ignore the many people raising valid complaints would be silly.
Trying to insert a strawman as an "in other words" never ends well. I'm not your enemy, if you disagree with the changes, tell me. I'm here to pass on your opinion to the team. But intentionally misconstruing what was said isn't going to help anyone.
By your own metrics, Nurse is not a top performer. Even at high MMR, her kill rate is not significant. Again, this is from the data you released. How are these nerfs anything other than a reaction to complaining?
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@Peanits said:
At no point did we say that it is the only survivor sided map, we simply confirmed what others have been saying and outlined the work we've done to address this one. By no means is it the only one. You can make a case for just about any map favouring one side or the other.
As for the Killer changes, The Nurse has easily been the single most discussed Killer lately and warranted changes over any other Killer. The Knight was only recently released and as usual, we make changes to the most recent Killer in the following updates to try and fine tune their balance. They were definitely not chosen at random. Other Killers have changed planned, but there's only so much bandwidth for changes in each update.
So in other words, if people complain loud enough, you will change something whether it’s right or wrong.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310586#Comment_3310586
DBD is a casual party game and an asymmetrical one at that. It can never be truly balance by its inherent nature and DBD does not have a largely competitive player base as you would have in say COD or PUBG or whatever.
Its a casual game with a mostly casual low skill player base and the majority of that player base are unskilled survivors.
This is wrong. Casuals make up the majority in every game. Those games still balance around the highest level of play. It’s only here on the DBD forum that performing mental gymnastics to say that casuals should be the point of balance is accepted. Aside from that, you seem to be saying that because comp SWF is a small percentage of games, that it is acceptable for the killer to get destroyed by those teams. This is also wrong. The killer should never feel like a match is impossible to win. If they do, the game isn’t worth playing.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309993#Comment_3309993
They had their chance to change DH when Dedicated Servers were added.
This obviously means DH couldn't have been a problem.
This doesn’t compare at all. They actually took time to rework all of her addons and power. Dead hard went literally untouched, the only difference being how it interacted with the server.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309976#Comment_3309976
It DID take them 5 years to change iri Head and DH to be in a more...acceptable state
They had their chance both a few years ago and now- no changes to her power. This obviously means they don’t see her as a “relic.”
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309697#Comment_3309697
Nurse is basically the only thing back from "old DBD" (gameplay- and mechanic-wise) which was really, really strong back then and is still allowed to exist. Nurse was the strongest Killer when Survivors were the strongest, and Survivors get nerfed constantly since the launch of the game (rightfully, for the most part).
So yeah, at some point, this design failure (aka Nurse) can be adressed. Sure, there will be some Nerfs and probably the Pickrate will drop, because many will think Nurse is "gutted", but give it 2 months at max and everyone who abandoned Nurse will realize that she is still strong. And will still dominate.
And I can only guess, but the Devs are either scared to rework her in a meaningful way OR have no idea how they can change her that she is somewhat unique and not too strong or too weak. Because you cannot nerf Nurse, she will either be too strong or too weak. With those changes, she will still be too strong.
Overall, it is a joke that Nurse can exist like this, especially if we get more and more Killers who are harder to play than her and still weaker.
Again, this is all inference and made up points on your part. If they wanted her power gone, they would have done it. This whole relic thing is lazy, regurgitated thinking.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309656#Comment_3309656
Because this Nerf does not change that she is an outdated design which should not exist like this anymore.
According to who? If the devs are happy with her, then her design is fine. You are in no position to say she doesn’t fit the game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306797#Comment_3306797
coming from a nurse profile picture b t w
Exactly, I like actually having a chance of winning. Not making sure survivors have a good time.
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@[Deleted User] said:
the people in this thread saying "there's nothing you can do against a good looper" LMAO
if you're being outclassed drop chase and find someone else
or better yet learn from the experience and learn to mind game
also you guys know bloodlust is a thing right lol
Ignoring the fact that a large portion of loops have no mind game.