twistedmonkey
twistedmonkey
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- twistedmonkey
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Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/425539#Comment_425539
MoM also shouldn't be introduced. There is no fault in the killer. Only with players. Updates shouldn't be only about nerfs to the killers.
They arent, most updates have changes to both sides with buffs and nerfs, look at the past patch notes and you will be surprised just how many changes have happened, I think sometimes people get so hung up on an aspect they forget about them.
This particular update though is fixing a problem with one specific killer who has been the biggest topic of debate since release, sometimes things get worse before they get better.
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Does that also count with the multiple DS nerfs there have been? While it's a perk that shouldn't have been introduced it has been hit a few times which people payed to play with.
The only way legion could actually be buffed to a strong killer was to change their mechanics, if not they would stay in limbo and people would not have fun.
Its no surprise they are changing this killer as the player base has reduced since the legion was released.
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Ignorance of the rules/TOU does not make you excempt from them.
Clicking accept before playing means you have agreed to them and legally bonded you to what it says.
TOU's for games are pretty standard when it comes to exploiting and cheating.
You have the right to not accept it upon purchasing a game and filling for a refund, after that well you then reap what you sow.
I don't agree with perma banning with certain exploits as some are extremely hard to prove it's intentional but I do think a notification when loading up the game or picking legion should be put in game and then a temp ban or strike is fine.
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To be fair the mend mechanic introduced with legion is the problem.
Instead of making a new mechanic for legion they just changed the borrowed time one to read mend, now any change to that mechanic for legion will also affect BT.
I said when they first brought legion out it should have been a diff mechanic all together as now changing one affects the other.
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I agree nice post, thank you devs, it must be hard reading all the constant complaints, always remember this forum is a tiny vocal minority.
So many who are complaining said the same things with the last ptb's to others on here, try it first it first it may not be as bad as you think.
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To ban is a bit of a kick in the teeth tbh.
The bug needs fixed asap but they shouldn't remove someone's ability to play due to a mistake they made, how do they tell the difference between those who do it intentionally and those who don't?
Quick solution is to just disable the add-on mix, simple and effective and also put in game text saying why.
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A legion moonwalking technically is an exploit as its using the mechanic in an unintended way, that is not on the players though its due to the devs not realising how their intended mechanic could be abused by the power they gave him.
It's one of those unintended designs and probably one of the main reasons a rework is coming soon, the moonwalk mechanic itself is fine for most killers but having a killer being able to abuse it this way is not.
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This thread just shows some people will try to justify a game breaking bug by using something which is no where near in the same league.
These forums never cease to amaze me.
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I agree, it's not as pleasing on the eye and is harder to navigate with less info.
The desktop version isn't much better either tbh.
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Well hopefully they have implemented the ban for false reporting and it extends to those reporting for dcing so you may get an answer on if people get banned.
While the system is far from perfect reporting just creates more reports to go through so actual reportable offenses take longer to get actioned.
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I dont think they dc due to the ranking being hard as it's been going on for months even when it was a lot easier to pip, a lot of them seem to do it due to not having s fun match or to derank to stay in the lower ranks for easier or more fun games.
Personally the ranking system as it is simply rewards only one type of playstyle and that's doing everything optimally, the problem with a system like this I'd it hurts how you wish to play, dbd as a game never had this system and each style used to be rewarded when it was done off of bloodpoints.
Now take survivors, each player and a role to play in the game be it doing gens, totems, wasting time, opening the doors, saving, healing etc but the current system made it so if each player was better than the killer they versed and never went down they would not pip as they did not allow themselves to be caught, that alone says something is wrong.
Killer is the same as it's not your skill that diccates your pip all the time, if you are much better than the survivors you are versing you can get punished for not prolonging the game, for example of they don't save then you can lose out, that again says something is wrong when your game ends too quickly through no fault of your own your emblem cannot gain enough points.
I don't agree that people should be able to leave if they don't like a killer, your fun is important but so is the others, if the devs decide this is the game then players should accept it for all that it is or simply not play.
Dcing does need punished but I dont think the ban system works or someone should lose access to the game they bought for it, instead they should time people out after so many in a set time frame, more than 5 dc's in 24 hours and you start to get timed out which grows each one after, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 mins etc, you reach 30 mins and then you get timed out for 1 hour each time and it doesn't reset for 24 hours after the last offense.
Other wise create a dunce lobby like GTA and make those players who serial dc verse each other for 48 hours each dc in it means they get 1 hour added to their time in there.
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I am excited to see what they come up with for end game yet scepticle at the same time, they have taken a long time so I hope it's been worth the wait.
Freddy really did need a change and I for one am glad he may get a complete new power, the problem with Freddy was they teetered on the edge and slight changes could make them too weak or too OP as was evident when they nerfed them.
Legion is in the same boat atm due to his power, I can't see what they can do with them to make it fun as they are, I hope the wait also means they will rework their power also.
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I do like this idea but remember it's not just survivors, if 3 or 4 farm map offerings pop up the killer sometimes dodges also.
If they don't want to do that then they should at least make secret offering actually secret and stop showing them at all along with wards imo.
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It's a bit too large on mobile, a lot of scrolling and it feels muddled and not good in the eyes.
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Because the system is a one for all when it should be made individually to play to each killers strengths and weaknesses but in reality that would take alot of work so I can't see it being done.
The emblem system punishes good play and also if the survivors refuse to save from the hook, kill themselves or DC which is quite disheartening, your pip is not just in your hands.
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What can happen in the end game chat and that's it really.
Tunnelling, tbagging, camping, flashlight clicking is all fair game as its in the game itself and those are classed as strategies to either kill or to get them to chase you/distract them giving the others more time.
Some don't like the idea of the above hence they will call them toxic but in reality it's all used to try and gain an advantage over you opponent.
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An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.
One thing to take into consideration is that between February and May each year the numbers always seem to dip the lowest, why this is who knows but I wouldn't say this is anything out of the ordinary as yet, even with the dlc releases the numbers each year tend to say maybe people don't have time to play or it's a time where there are generally other games being released to play for a while.
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PC and no
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The hatch itself should be equal for both sides to have a chance so maybe a game of hide and seek could be the answer?
The hatch spawns but doesn't open for 60 seconds (time may be longer) the killer then has a chance to find and down them in that time, there is no way to grab from the hatch if the timer runs out once so stealth is the answer.
If they are found within that time and in a chase for longer than 15 seconds then the hatch opens and the killer has a one hit down and also can grab from the hatch so you take your chance with a jump if possible.
After 120 seconds the survivors aura will be revealed to the killer and the hatch closes so you either do your best to leave or die.
This is just a way to make it so neither side wants to sit on the hatch, the survivor wants to find it and the killer wants to hunt and also end the game quickly.
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That's why I think the ranking needs removed or changed to monthly goal, ranking in this game has always meant nothing in reality apart from an achievement, if it was just something to work towards rather than who you get matched with they don't need to make it hard or easy just progressive.
Making it harder doesn't fix the real core issue of people being matched with less skilled players.
Make match making seperate from it so it looks at how much you played a certain killer, how well you do over a period of matches etc survivors since they are skins can be done over genral playtime for all, they can then put more factors into that rather than use a method where it's so easy to derank to bully players.
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Because they are in love with that survivor, it's quite sweet actually.
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Survivor a would need more than just an escape to count towards pips or it doesn't work.
Making it so a survivor only gains a pip if they escape depending on token is like making it so a killer only pips if they 4k with certain tokens gained before that happened.
The system would not represent any type of skill as the game itself is setup in a way that you will eventually go down and be hooked, imagine doing 3 gens, destroying 2 totems, saving and healing someone, evading two chases and not pipping as you got downed with NOED and camped at the end, you could be classed as the MVP of the team but it meant nothing.
The survivors would also need a way to pip with what actions they do in the game even if they die or you will end up with the same problem we have now, players not ranking up, it also makes it easier to stay at your rank as you just let them kill you at the end.
This was the initial problem with victory cubes and why a survivir one was so hard to implement so they changed it to emblems.
The problem with emblems though is they are trying to force the way people play, it should be more natural not you have to do it this way.
The problem has never been how the ranking system rewards you with pips in my eyes it's using the system to match people that's the problem.
There are so many factors which lead to playing well in the game it's hard to say one is better than the other.
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It all comes down to your setup, stereo headphones are a must but what you will hear will also depend on how good the ones you have are, most streamers probably have a seperate sound card which will also make a difference.
I have a good pair of stereo/surround headphones, I play in stereo as I personally hear more clearly in this game than when in surround mode.
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I generally dont rate Tyde as he seems to be one who jumps on band wagons to create content simply to be controversial for views.
Just looking at the video you can hear a lot of things relate to discussions on this forum, it's like he took notes and decided to make a video of it.
I find it difficult to like someone who thinks they know what's best for the game when they have no prior knowledge of running a game this size, that on top of the fact he's not the best player but thinks he is.
I will say parts of this video were actually quite good like the emblems breakdown, he can be good at breaking these things down with numbers, I think that's his strong point, it's just the constant complaining/whiny attitude and condescending tone he uses when people don't agree with him I dislike.
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@wisdom said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/409552#Comment_409552
The player base did stop growing, even with a free weekend. That suggests that the number of players coming in is equal to the number of players leaving.
Thats not actually true if you look at the peak players for Saturday on the free weekend it was just under 34k, the previous saturday was 22k.
Even Mondays 24h peak has been 24k when last Monday was 18k.
It's also currently number 16 in steam global top sellers.
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@TheBean said:
But didn't both the killer and survivor played poorly?
So why should the survivor who got chased by a bad killer get rewarded with a white pip? They couldn't lose the bad killer. So both levels of skill were the same?...
The survivor who couldn't lose the killer, the killer who couldn't catch the survivor and move onto another target.
I thought the idea of emblems was to promote "proper" play. Not players who can troll a bad killer around the whole map and get rewarded with rank.
I think in a sense you are correct but there is also another way to look at it.
If the killer can't catch and down a survivor in theory that survivor is better at the chase so they should rank up away from them.
The tracking well that's a bit of a strange one with all the bright coloured clothing some are easy to keep in sight while ninja Claudette is at the other end of the spectrum, I don't think not being able to lose them is as cut and dry as not being able to catch and down them.
Its the same for killers if they can down someone quickly in a chase they should be ranked away from those survivors.
The chase is one of the most important aspect with time management in the game and can make or break the whole match as the others can do gens freely.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/408310#Comment_408310
Doesnt matter. A Behavior selected representative of the game on stream, is exploiting the system because the devs can't fix it.
That's on them. He shouldnt DC to avoid what the game is giving him. Its EXPLOITING the pip system and you cannot argue that fact.
You are completely taking it out of context.
Some do derank to the lower bracket for easier games but this streamer is not doing that, he is deranking just enough so he can actually find lobbies and play the game, this point would be where the usual rank 1 survivors should be anyway due to the pip system.
Exploiting the system by dcing to find easier games or dodging lobbies to cherry pick what you want to play versus is not the same as this scenario.
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The problem with some players don't care about rank.
Punishing them would mean they stay low ranked to keep being able to bully some killers not equiped to handle them.
This is why the dbd rank system means nothing, it's not about how hard or easy it is to rank up, it never was, it's about how easy it is to manipulate it so you can play in the areas you shouldn't.
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It's best to PM a mod and send them the info direct if you wish to share it @Peanits may be able to help.
This person does need dealt with but all you will do is get yourself banned for naming and shaming as it's agaisnt the rules.
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This is why I think MoM should not work with DS it should be either or make running both a waste of time.
Being able to run them both is more of a problem imo, they could then add a timer to MoM and make it a hook condition also with a slight boost (1.5s ?) so its made like DS another anti tunnel perk just a different way of working.
Much like the exhaustion mechanic using one means you negate the use of the other.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/407741#Comment_407741
That's fine. He doesnt have to be a fog whisperer to be able to stream.
The whole point of fog whisperer is to help spread info to their communites and also give feedback to the devs from them.
I would say a streamer who has never advocated deranking now saying he may have too to find games is exactly the type of fog whisperer they want as it's not a troll derank it's a problem they need to fix.
A legit honest player who thinks they may have to resort to something they are against just to find games who is directly in touch with the devs gets the point accross better than any other player can.
It seems some posters are so hung up on fog whisperers they cannot recognise when one is actually trying to make BHVR see the issue lots of players are facing.
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The problem is if he can't play then his viewer count could go down, he is a fog whisperer yes but if he can't play it could cost him money, it's his chosen career to play and entertain.
I am sure as a fog whisperer tru for one will be in contact with the devs to let them know the problem he faces at rank 1.
Tru also never said he would DC to derank there are other ways to do it but it does mean changing how he plays.
It's a problem with the system BHVR implemented when someone who has never done and is against it now sees the need too derank.
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Seems like a nice change, it also fits in with his perk flip flop more.
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Taking what those in this usebase who think they know better than the company about how they run things with a grain of salt and for the most part ignore them.
Listening to actual feedback and some have even been implemented.
Fixing many issues with the games balance over the last year.
They did get Legion and MoM wrong but I think they will come good with them in the end.
They still have a ways to go to fix the game in terms of bugs but I can't discount what they have already done.
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@Kilmeran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/405422#Comment_405422
@twistedmonkey, I'm sorry, but that is not accurate. When they applied to become a Fog Whisperer, they applied to be part of a partnership program supported by Behavior to help market and promote the game in exchange for whatever perks came along with it. As such, they are part of the official public face for Dead by Daylight.
The goal is to promote Dead by Daylight to bring people into the game, thereby facilitating sales of the base game and potential DLC sales as well. That means their Streams are now part of the Dead by Daylight marketing model. This is the same for Bajheera over in World of Warcraft, FeyRazzle or 1HP in the Paladins program, Baggins_TV, Thor, Krippler, and others for Realm Royale, and so forth. They accepted the partnership to help promote and market the game, and become a Twitch face for it.
When they encourage their viewers to go and attack Steam and Twitch accounts of opposing players or viewers, or DC because they don't like a Killer or how a match is going, or purposefully derank to go against lower-skilled opponents because "it's more fun to watch," they are thereby marketing a toxic behavior pattern within Dead by Daylight. They are marketing it to any existing customers as well as potential new customers that might have stumbled into their stream as a means of researching the game before purchasing. And displaying that type of community face could drive away potential sales.
Heck, there was a poster in another thread about this topic that stated he did just that: checked out a Stream to see what the game was about, saw that type of behavior, and walked away. He has the game now only because his friends gifted him the base game and DLCs to get him to play. But after seeing one of those Fog Whisperers as his first experience with DbD, decided not to purchase the game.
Fog Whisperers are not the same as other DbD Streamers. They sought out and were accepted into a marketing partnership. Now, while they shouldn't necessarily be banned from the game, they should be terminated from the Fog Whisperers program and reduced to the status of just the "average DbD streamer." They should no longer be part of the official marketing face for DbD.
Actually it is accurate as the ones most people refer too were approached by BHVR themselves as they were announced when the beta program was launched, the rest applied after the beta program.
I dont agree with what they do and I am against dcing but you forget those people are not employees it's a mutually beneficial agreement.
BHVR chose the original ones as they have large followings and have supported the game from the start, they also knew about them and what they do when playing but still approached them, what does that tell you?
Why do you think they would now try to force a paying customer who brings then in money to adhere to different rules just because a miniscule amount of users don't agree with it? They have thousands of viewers don't give a ######### and make jokes about it.
BHVR need to punish everyone the same for dcing fog streamer or not, If i watch someone it's not because of a tag I will watch who is entertaining.
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@SmokePotion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/405422#Comment_405422
If they want to keep their fancy emblem and incentives, I'de say I could. After all, it's not like they are forcing these people to be fog whisperers. These people asked for the endorsement.
It's like bhvr is an advertiser for their programming. if they are breaching the rules (which they are, they just have a bad way of enforcing them, that lets people that play more troll more) then they can pull their endorsement. And that's what I'm asking for. Pulling the endorsement of people that are doing behavior that shouldn't be endorsed.
And who says those streamers will care?
They were streamers before and would be after losing it, one thing the viewer bases of a lot of streamers hate is seeing them be a sell out.
So do BHVR listen to the 9 or 10 people posting here or the thousands of viewers of the people they know had bad practices yet help them sell the game?
This thread itself hasn't gained traction which tends to say most people simply don't care about what streamers do and just want BHVR to fix dcing for everyone.
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I cant see BHVR enforcing certain things on to paying customers.
Fog whisperes are just normal players who happened to stream with decent sexed communities, BHVR have approached then to help them out by way of giving out info to their viewers and keep promoting the game, in return they get certain incentives to help their stream.
They are not BHVR employees so they are simply held by the same rules as any other player nothing more.
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It's a bit of a problem with perks.
Most perks used by killers are to help prolong the game and with cutting chase times.
Survivors in swf use evading and wasting more time and for solo add in some info ones.
I personally don't think certain buffs to perks unless they fit into those brackets will help change the meta much.
Imo they first need to look at why the meta is to use those kind of perks and then look to fix those core issues so more perks become useful or fun to use.
This could mean nerfing some of those deemed strong or needed perks if it happened.
They have reworked a lot of perks in the past by way of buffs and some changed up the meta for a while but it never lasts for long.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/401587#Comment_401587
Ideally your rank is not your reward, but rather to gauge your level of skill and match you with other people of your skill level. You should eventually hit the rank that you're comfortable in and then have a hard time ranking up past that. With that said, the emblem system is still being tweaked and adjusted and any odd edge cases should hopefully be ironed out.
@Peanits While it may sound good on paper to some of the devs in reality it doesnt show your own skill, your rank can and will be determined by how the others play which mean the system itself is highly flawed.
If survivors are not that great and you down them quickly and they dont save surely you should be ranked up away from them, the same principle goes for survivors if the killer has a hard time finding people and hardly downs player surely they again should be set to a rank where they can.
The actual system does not reward or take into account players being matched up with a disparity in skill, it only rewards players making sure they give the others a chance which is very boring to some as they want a challenge, this scenario happened when the emblems first came about and showed making it harder to pip wasnt what the players actually wanted.
What the players wanted for the ranking system was to be matched with those of an equal skill lvl which the ranking system never has done, the current and last ranking system cant do that as the big problem if deranking was and is an issue and making it harder to rank up actually makes this easier to do.
Imo they should seperate how rank and matchmaking work.
Rank is then a monthly goal to achieve if one so wishes which can be changed to a lvl up of sorts instead.
Matchmaking then puts you into brackets, each one can see the userbase over two ranks, say something like starter, bronze, silver, gold, irri zones, it can then take into account many factors of how kills, escapes, time played, chase legth etc so the players can be LVL 15 or 1 but if they are skillful enough they will play together, this stops deranking and allows the game to seperate players a bit better.
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I was referring to a condition more similar to DS so it's another possible anti tunnelling perk with a different effect.
The whole point being make it so it's one or the other as they negate each other.
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I said this in another thread
Mom should have conditions like DS was changed to have, maybe make it after an unhook and add a timer so it's another anti tunnel perk but instead of a stun you get a 1.5s boost.
They could also start to look at certain perks that have a similar effect like those two as not single entities but a duo set so certain ones don't work in conjunction with each other so you chose Mom or DS but not both as using either auto deactivates the other.
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To be fair hearing this is a bug does make the perk a lot stronger than it first seemed.
I personally think the bug should be kept as it, while it is bugged it's fairer and not a guaranteed miss.
Maybe it's time to look at how the perk works overall and others so running some together can negate benefits have imo it should be more of a replacement for DS with similar conditions to activate it so players don't want to run both as it's then a wasted perk slot.
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I bet the devs are sitting thinking you are very welcome, smiling as the vast majority dont care and just play the game.
Even though the perk MoM is actually quite weak its nice to see people talking about the ASH DLC, no publicity is bad publicity afterall and will just bring in more sales for them.
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@ModsAreFreeLaborLOL said:
I disagree. I think complaints are feedback. Negative feedback can be considered a complaint. We agree to disagree.
While some complaints yes can be feedback the constant whining and threats of certain poster is not, it goes beyond feedback and is akin to a child having there toys removed and throwing a tantrum.
The problem I see is with the make this game the way I want it posters or they threaten to quit/ruin everyone else's fun instead, to me these are just angry people and I struggle to understand how that can be classed a passion and not simply an entitled person or someone with anger management issues.
I may think DS should never have been a perk, I may hate the legion, I may disagree with insta heals and not like many changes the devs make but I will never dc, lobby dodge or threaten to do X if I don't get my way, i will post my opinion and try to be as constructive as possible as feedback and if the devs like it that's cool and if not I will still accept the game as it is for what it is.
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Trapper - enduring, agitation, spirit fury, deerstalker.
I would trap the window,pick them up trying my luck for the closest hook going through the pallet if its the way to the closest one I would be glad if someone tried to pallet save tbh that's two off gens and the god pallet gone.
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You can generally tell the usual suspects on both sides who post constantly about how it's not fair and are so one sided nothing anyone says no matter how logical it is will ever be heard.
The fact is the vast majority of the players never visit the forums and just play the game.
Funnily enough I have noticed a fee new accounts have opened after the release of Ash which tend to post like some of those usual suspects.
I agree with you 100% and some people just need to chill out, stop being so angry at a game and thinking it should be made purely to suit there ideas, if they no longer enjoy it or are not happy with the direction just move on to something else.
Getting so upset over a game seems strange to me, games are a plenty and there to play for fun in down time, I do feel a lot of gamers today should take a break now and again, go outside and see what life has to offer instead of dedicating their lives to a virtual world a the while becoming more hateful towards it.
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That's what happens in multiplayer games anything can change for the sake of balance.
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The usual forum members who say they are killer mains (maybe they are just not vwry good players) whine about things that needed fixed and a perk which isnt actually strong at all, all the whole continuing to justify dodging lobbies.
While the real killers will continue to play and not care as they adapt to change and still get 3-4k's each match.
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Remember when survivors complained about a certain dream world killer before they got used to him and realised he wasn't that strong?
This the exactly same scenario.