thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1688389#Comment_1688389
He would chase them but refused to down or hook anyone. They took 20 minutes or something to do like 2 gens. Was Scott holding the game hostage?
No, because he was not preventing them from doing gens.
If he was not then any instance where a player is simply bad and the game is delayed is NOT a hostage situation.
Unless the Survivors were actively not stopping the Killer from downing them and letting the Killer down them with ease, then not true.
That is a very clear and specific thing, of which the requirements were not actually met since he could have, in theory, still ended the game he just lacked the ability to execute it.
I shall once again equate this with the situation of Survivors indefinitely hiding and the Killer "lacking the ability" to find them.
Also, I ask again: "Then why is the game still going on? Why has the game not ended?"
But they were failing at doing gens. It doesn't matter if he was preventing them or not, they lacked the skill to do them. By your logic he was holding the game hostage for the same reason these survivors held the game hostage.
And now you're saying that a survivor has to let the killer catch them or it's holding the game hostage. Because by running you are preventing the killer from doing their objective.
"Then why is the game still going on? Why has the game not ended?"
Because the killer was bad and made a lot of mistakes, which is not a hostage situation.
Look the HUGE difference between hiding and not doing gens and getting chased and not doing gens is that the second WILL END EVENTUALLY just by the very mechanics of the game. Eventually, with killers being faster than survivors, and with bloodlust, the killer will catch up and get a hit. That means EVENTUALLY they will get a down, and then a hook. Rinse repeat 3 more times. Game is now over. But when survivors hide and don't do gens there is no EVENTUALLY the killer finds them. MAYBE they find them. MAYBE is not the same as EVENTUALLY. The latter is guaranteed to happen, the former is not.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1688361#Comment_1688361
Then you are making a false equivalency.
Disagree.
If one side is not good enough that doesn't mean the other side was holding them hostage.
Then why is the game still going on? Why has the game not ended? I believe it is you who has it backwards.
Again would an AFK killer be holding the game hostage if survivors were SOOOOOOOO bad at the game they couldn't even complete a gen?
The Killer is not preventing the Survivor from finishing the gens, so no (though again, being AFK is a reportable offense). The Survivors ARE actively working to keep the Killer from catching them (for that is the point of the chase) while ALSO deliberately choosing not to do gens.
Yes even if the killer is bad enough. Just follow them, eventually you will catch up. If they drop a pallet break it. Eventually you will use every pallet. EVENTUALLY you will catch them. Just by following them.
And if the Survivors are able to consistently give the Killer the slip because the Killer is bad?
No it doesn't. Being bad at the game doesn't change the definition of a term or change the way the rules are applied.
This I agree with. Hostage holding doesn't factor in skill; only if one party is refusing to end the game and the other party is incapable of doing so without DCing.
How is the game being held hostage if you are constantly getting chase by the killer? Your logic doesn't work when applied to similar situations.
Because the Killer wants to leave the game (without DCing) but cannot because they cannot catch the Survivors and the Survivors are not finishing the gens. If the gens are finished, it is a completely different story because the Killer can just force the gates open and force-start the EGC.
Yea because when you body block someone it doesn't matter how good they are, they can't end the game if they wanted to. That little detail of "hatch is closed" changes the entire thing, just like the little detail of "killer is bad" changes everything.
No it does not. The reason "hatch is closed" changes the entire thing is that hatch being closed means the game WILL end. Not so for the "killer is bad" bit.
Scott Jund made a video before they turned off the MMR showing him against literal rank 20 brand new players to the game. He would chase them but refused to down or hook anyone. They took 20 minutes or something to do like 2 gens. Was Scott holding the game hostage?
If he was, then that means anytime a player refuses to even do an objective they are delaying the game and holding it hostage. Obviously if you play tactically but take a minute to touch a gen you aren't holding the game hostage, but that's where that logic would go.
If he was not then any instance where a player is simply bad and the game is delayed is NOT a hostage situation.
You can sit here and say he was bullied or griefed, I would agree. But taken hostage? NO. That is a very clear and specific thing, of which the requirements were not actually met since he could have, in theory, still ended the game he just lacked the ability to execute it. But if the situation was that some survivors got out of the map and he couldn't get to them, THEN it is holding the game hostage because regardless of his skill or ability to execute the end of the game there is nothing that can be done.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1688341#Comment_1688341
I've already pointed out how they are different and how hiding IS holding the game hostage. Stop lumping me in with those people.
Both still result in one side (in this case, the Killer) being kept in the game against their will and being unable to leave without DCing. So no, I will continue to equate the two as equivalent offenses.
Doesn't matter, being bad at the game does NOT mean you were held hostage.
Being bad at the game is irrelevant. If you are unable to leave without DCing and the other side refuses to finish their goal and chooses to prolong things, it is hostage holding.
The difference is that in a chase the killer is GUARANTEED to catch you eventually.
Not necessarily. Not if the Killer is bad enough.
Just like the definition doesn't include making poor decisions that end up delaying the end of the game.
It actually does, though. Choosing not to do gens and hide forever is a poor decision that ends up delaying the game.
Or else anytime a killer gets outplayed you could say "that's holding the game hostage".
That doesn't make sense. How is the game being held hostage if gens are being done?
No matter how many times you want to repeat the same thing, BEING BAD AT THE GAME DOES NOT MAKE IT A HOSTAGE SITUATION. A hostage situation is a VERY SPECIFIC thing in this game. It's a point where no matter HOW GOOD YOU ARE, you can literally not end the game. Case and point, killer body blocking survivor in a corner or a survivor getting into an area the killer cannot get them. Those are 100% hostage situations.
And that very specific situation is "Holding the game hostage means the game is not ending and is deliberately being dragged out by one party past a reasonable point, with the other person being incapable of ending the game even though they want to without having to DC." It's why indefinite body blocking is hostage holding if the hatch is still open, but not if it's closed.
"So no, I will continue to equate the two as equivalent offenses."
Then you are making a false equivalency.
"Being bad at the game is irrelevant."
No it's not. If one side is not good enough that doesn't mean the other side was holding them hostage. You have it backwards. You have to remove skill from the equation. If it is literally impossible to end the game even for the absolute best player in the world, then it would be a hostage situation. Again would an AFK killer be holding the game hostage if survivors were SOOOOOOOO bad at the game they couldn't even complete a gen? Obviously not. Doesn't matter if that is unlikely, we are taking your logic to the most extreme level and it fails. Therefore, your logic is invalid. The logic I am presenting is consistent no matter what the variables are.
"Not necessarily. Not if the Killer is bad enough."
Yes even if the killer is bad enough. Just follow them, eventually you will catch up. If they drop a pallet break it. Eventually you will use every pallet. EVENTUALLY you will catch them. Just by following them.
"It actually does, though."
No it doesn't. Being bad at the game doesn't change the definition of a term or change the way the rules are applied.
"How is the game being held hostage if gens are being done?"
How is the game being held hostage if you are constantly getting chase by the killer? Your logic doesn't work when applied to similar situations.
"And that very specific situation is "Holding the game hostage means the game is not ending and is deliberately being dragged out by one party past a reasonable point, with the other person being incapable of ending the game even though they want to without having to DC." It's why indefinite body blocking is hostage holding if the hatch is still open, but not if it's closed."
Yea because when you body block someone it doesn't matter how good they are, they can't end the game if they wanted to. That little detail of "hatch is closed" changes the entire thing, just like the little detail of "killer is bad" changes everything.
You can keep repeating yourself, it won't suddenly make it a hostage situation. The mere fact he killed one disproves this idea entirely. Had they refused to do gens even more he would EVENTUALLY catch and kill them all, just like he EVENTUALLY catch the first one. It is inevitable. Finding a survivor that is hiding is NOT inevitable. Therefore those 2 situations are not at all the same.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1688314#Comment_1688314
This is not the fault of anyone but the killer.
People arguing that hiding forever is a-okay have said the exact same thing. Shouldn't apply there; shouldn't apply here.
Imagine if the killer goes AFK but the survivor is SOOO bad at the game they don't even know what button to press to do a gen. Is the killer holding the game hostage? No.
The game literally tells them what to press, so that argument goes out the window. Plus, going AFK is a reportable offense according to the game itself, so...
It would obviously take a LONG time but it can be done.
It doesn't matter if the Killer eventually finds the hiding Survivor after 30+ minutes. It's still hostage holding.
If someone is bad at the game that doesn't make it a hostage situation.
The definition of holding the game hostage does not include player skill.
"People arguing that hiding forever is a-okay have said the exact same thing. Shouldn't apply there; shouldn't apply here."
I've already pointed out how they are different and how hiding IS holding the game hostage. Stop lumping me in with those people.
"The game literally tells them what to press, so that argument goes out the window. Plus, going AFK is a reportable offense according to the game itself, so..."
Doesn't matter, being bad at the game does NOT mean you were held hostage.
"It doesn't matter if the Killer eventually finds the hiding Survivor after 30+ minutes. It's still hostage holding."
The difference is that in a chase the killer is GUARANTEED to catch you eventually. They aren't guaranteed to find you if you hide.
"The definition of holding the game hostage does not include player skill."
Just like the definition doesn't include making poor decisions that end up delaying the end of the game. Or else anytime a killer gets outplayed you could say "that's holding the game hostage".
No matter how many times you want to repeat the same thing, BEING BAD AT THE GAME DOES NOT MAKE IT A HOSTAGE SITUATION. A hostage situation is a VERY SPECIFIC thing in this game. It's a point where no matter HOW GOOD YOU ARE, you can literally not end the game. Case and point, killer body blocking survivor in a corner or a survivor getting into an area the killer cannot get them. Those are 100% hostage situations.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1688296#Comment_1688296
Once all the pallets are gone and he has bloodlust 3 he should be getting a hit guaranteed.
Not necessarily. Suppose the Killer is very bad and can't maintain a chase for the life of them. Survivors are good at breaking the chase and giving the Killer the slip. If the Killer skill is not enough to allow them to catch the Survivors and the Survivors are unwilling to finish the gens, what exactly enables the Killer to end the game in a reasonable time?
You might not eventually find them though. If you follow a survivor eventually you WILL get a hit. 100% guaranteed, IDC how bad you are, just follow with no mind games and no respect to pallets. Over a long enough period you WILL get them. Over a long enough period, no you are not given the same guarantee to find a survivor.
If I give my controller to my friend who barely knows how to play, will they be able to catch a team who opts not to do gens and is able to do chases like a boss?
"Not necessarily. Suppose the Killer is very bad and can't maintain a chase for the life of them."
This is not the fault of anyone but the killer.
Imagine if the killer goes AFK but the survivor is SOOO bad at the game they don't even know what button to press to do a gen. Is the killer holding the game hostage? No.
Now imagine there is only 1 gen that can be done, and it can only be done by 1 person, but the killer stands where they need to stand to do the gen and goes AFK. THAT is a hostage situation because the inability to end the game is completely independent of the player's skill. You could literally be able to hit great skill checks with your eyes closed and no sound and you could STILL not do the gen and end the game.
THAT is the difference.
"If I give my controller to my friend who barely knows how to play, will they be able to catch a team who opts not to do gens and is able to do chases like a boss?"
If they are running around in front of him like that, yes, eventually he will catch them. It would obviously take a LONG time but it can be done.
If someone is bad at the game that doesn't make it a hostage situation.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1688291#Comment_1688291
Being less skilled than your opponent and getting bullied is NOT a hostage situation because you could in theory do something about that.
Again, this logic could apply to the situation where Survivors don't do gens and hide indefinitely. But the devs consider it hostage holding anyways. Same could apply here.
ALSO HE KILLED A SURVIVOR.
Why do y'all keep ignoring this very important part?
Same reason why it doesn't matter when a Killer does eventually find one or more Survivors who have been hiding for a super long time. Regardless of whether or not it ended, the point is that they were forced to remain in the game past a reasonable point.
"Again, this logic could apply to the situation where Survivors don't do gens and hide indefinitely. But the devs consider it hostage holding anyways. Same could apply here."
No it can't because unless the killer has Whispers they can never find you if you hide perfectly. You could run perfectly from a killer for a long time but the game is designed for them to eventually catch you. Once all the pallets are gone and he has bloodlust 3 he should be getting a hit guaranteed. You can't say the same thing about someone hiding because they aren't using resources and there is nothing giving the killer more and more of a chance to catch them over time.
"Same reason why it doesn't matter when a Killer does eventually find one or more Survivors who have been hiding for a super long time. Regardless of whether or not it ended, the point is that they were forced to remain in the game past a reasonable point."
You might not eventually find them though. If you follow a survivor eventually you WILL get a hit. 100% guaranteed, IDC how bad you are (proof by the OP video themselves, they EVENTUALLY get hits and downs, it's just they make very bad decisions once they do and lose all that pressure), just follow with no mind games and no respect to pallets. Over a long enough period you WILL get them. Over a long enough period, no you are not given the same guarantee to find a survivor.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1688270#Comment_1688270
Holding the game hostage doesn't mean that nothing is happening in the game. Holding the game hostage means the game is not ending and is deliberately being dragged out by one party past a reasonable point, with the other person being incapable of ending the game even though they want to without having to DC.
Being bad at the game isn't a hostage situation.
This is the exact logic used by people trying to argue that Survivors hiding indefinitely and not doing gens is not a hostage situation. The counterargument (that being trapped inside a game with no way to leave except via DC should not hinge on someone being "skilled enough" to make that happen) can arguably apply here too.
No holding the game hostage means that the game literally cannot end no matter what another player does. Being less skilled than your opponent and getting bullied is NOT a hostage situation because you could in theory do something about that.
Body blocking a survivor in a corner, or a survivor getting to a spot where the killer can't get them is a hostage situation because it doesn't matter what the other side does or how good they are, the game can never end. You could be Otz or the OP it doesn't matter.
Again it sucks what happened to this guy but it's not a hostage situation. He had opportunities to end the game, he just failed at it.
ALSO HE KILLED A SURVIVOR.
Why do y'all keep ignoring this very important part?
"This is the exact logic used by people trying to argue that Survivors hiding indefinitely and not doing gens is not a hostage situation. The counterargument (that being trapped inside a game with no way to leave except via DC should not hinge on someone being "skilled enough" to make that happen) can arguably apply here too."
Except that it doesn't matter how good a killer you are, if a survivor wants to hide from you they very easily can. If the survivor is running around in your face though that's an entirely different matter. Literally all he had to do was follow one. Just follow them. No mind games. Nothing just straight follow them. Eventually they will use every pallet, eventually he will get bloodlust, and eventually he will catch them. AND HE DID CATCH ONE.
The key distinction between these two scenarios is that there are opportunities to end the game in on and not the other. Whether or not the player is good enough to capitalize on those opportunities is irrelevant to whether or not they exist.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686393#Comment_1686393
Hostage is a very specific thing in this game. It means that the game literally cannot end EVEN IF the other players go AFK.
That is not true. By this definition, everyone hiding instead of doing gens is not holding the game hostage because the game can eventually end if the Killer finds the Survivors who are trying to hide. But as devs have repeatedly pointed out, that is considered hostage holding. In order for a game to be considered hostage holding, one side has to actively be doing something that prevents the game from drawing to a close while the other side is actively trying to end the game (barring DCs). Arguably, refusing to do gens just to get the Killer to bait-chase you for exceedingly long times could be considered this.
Hiding and not doing gens is WAY different from everyone running around right in front of the killer not doing gens.
The first scenario there is actually nothing happening in the game, not gens not chases not hits not kills. Therefore it is a hostage situation.
The second scenario stuff is happening, chases and hits (and he got a kill don't forget). Therefore it is NOT a hostage situation.
Also by my definition, if one side goes AFK and the OTHER side still cannot do something to end the game THAT is a hostage situation, eg. bodyblocking a survivor in a corner or a survivor glitching into an area the killer can never reach. If the survivors went AFK he could just kill them, and if he went AFK they could do gens (even though they didn't they COULD do it).
Being bad at the game isn't a hostage situation. Sorry no matter how you sugar coat it, that's what is going on here.
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@LuffyBlack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686421#Comment_1686421
Why are you being an #########?
Yes. I am being the #########.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686419#Comment_1686419
It may not, but how about responding the rest of the comment?
There is no need. Your whole argument is right there.
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686401#Comment_1686401
people like you are the reason game is going to die one day. why solve the problems when we can just pretend there are none, right?
I literally say "solve the problem". But why read the actual post when you can REEEEEEply faster without it?
Maybe actually acknowledge that a lot of killers are babies and will still dodge even if it's solved.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686380#Comment_1686380
If a killer never downs anyone and knows the survivors are potatoes who can't do gens, he's holding the game hostage as well.
Having a chance to win means nothing in this definition. A game where survivors just hide without progressing their objective will probably end as a win to the killer, but BHVR defines this as holding the game hostage as well.
A game designed to end at 10~20 minutes prolonged to more than AN HOUR will always be defined as a hostage. The survivors had no intention of finishing their objective there and their sole intention was frustrating the other side.
"A game designed to end at 10~20 minutes prolonged to more than AN HOUR will always be defined as a hostage."
It's actually not.
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This would be more because killers get seriously butthurt when they get 4e'd and less to do with how strong SWF is.
For the record SWF is strong, and sadly it always will be by the very nature of it. You will never see 4 players play worse with comms than without. Just facts. That said there are ways to mitigate the strength, but even then killers would REEEEEE and dodge SWF.
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@csebal said:
Look, @xevra and @thesuicidefox
I appreciate you have your opinions.
You can try deny the facts, but I have 40+ minutes of video footage to back up my claims of what has happened and you only have excuses made for 4 extremely toxic and vile players who really should not have any endorsement from the community as they are hurting the game and not helping anyone by playing the way they are.
I shared this story to bring attention to a very serious problem with the game through a very vile example of how toxicity can ruin matches.
I also shared it, as I genuinely believe, that watching those survivors can help players learn a thing or two about looping, they were really good at it.. I know, I was there.
I know where I am skill wise and will definitely not feel butthurt for random people on the internet telling me to git good, so hey.. if you feel like plastering this thread full of denial, go ahead, but I think your time might be better spent elsewhere.
Extremely toxic? Yes.
Bullies? Yes.
Smurfs? Yes.
Unfair to you? Yes.
Hostage? No.
Hostage is a very specific thing in this game. It means that the game literally cannot end EVEN IF the other players go AFK. If one of them purposely glitched into a spot you couldn't reach THAT is a hostage situation. You have literally nothing you could do to end the game, even if you were Otz.
This is not an opinion it is a FACT.
Also no this would not be a hostage situation for Huntress if she can still hit you.
Not being good enough to force them to leave is not a hostage situation. Sorry if that sounds harsh but that is the truth about it.
The fact you kill 1 means it is not a hostage situation. If they continued to refuse to do gens you would have killed them eventually.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686344#Comment_1686344
If a killer refuses to hook anyone he is also holding the game hostage, it's just not that worse because at least the survivors die from bleeding out, but it's still unsportsmanship.
"They were in his face all game". No, not all game, the moments he tried to play seriously you can see clearly that they also started playing as such (but without doing gens).
What if he never downs them? Then they never bleed out.
The fact that someone doesn't have the skill to do something doesn't mean it was a hostage situation. It was unfair. He was bullied. But he wasn't held hostage. There were opportunities for him to win.
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@Slashstreetboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686345#Comment_1686345
That´s a huge "if". These guys didn´t let him just knock them down. You seem a bit delusional about the situation at hand, friend.
They didn't let him kill one of them either I'm sure.
Either you should have just played scummy and tried to down them all or just actually went AFK. I guarantee if you were gone for more than 30 minutes they would have left.
The fact the game was being played means it's not a hostage situation. A hostage situation is when, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, the game will not end. They were engaging with you. You had plenty of opportunities to get them, you just failed at it. Yea it sucks, but the possibilities were there. Case and point, you killed 1.
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@Slashstreetboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686338#Comment_1686338
Yeah, right....like if you picked up boxing for a month and went up against Mike Tyson. All you gotta do to end the fight is to knock him out. He´s standing right there so you could easily do it right?
If he gives you a free hit and you put your all into it, yea the average person could probably knock him out after wailing on him. The human head can only take so much, doesn't matter if you've been punched once or 1000 times, enough blows to the head will do damage of some kind. Given enough time (and lack of making HUGE misplays like picking up when there are 2 flashlights around) he could have slugged all 4 of them. That was entirely in the realm of possibility.
Not to mention there is a timer in boxing.
Awful analogy is awful.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686336#Comment_1686336
They aren't doing their objective which is repairing the generators, therefore they are holding the game hostage.
I hope you are ironic when you imply a guy who can't even hit M1s is able to slug survivors who have probably thousands of hours.
Again they were in his face all game. That's like saying the killer held the game hostage by never hooking anyone but the survivors were so bad at the game they couldn't finish a gen.
The situation sucks but it's not a hostage situation. He could have done something, he just lacked the ability to do it.
Also he killed 1.
Was he bullied? Yes. Was he held hostage? No.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685355#Comment_1685355
Actually - yes, they were holding the game hostage. They were deliberately trying to stall things out to grief the killer in their nasty little smurf group.
This was a group of players out to make life miserable for new killers.
Except that they were presenting themselves to him and he could have killed them. He just failed at it.
Holding the game hostage is when you put someone in a situation where they can't end the game no matter what. Example, body blocking a survivor in the corner and going AFK. THAT is holding the game hostage because they literally can do nothing but DC. He could have done something here, he just didn't have the ability to do it.
Again if they were hiding it would be different because then they are neither doing objectives nor engaging with the killer. But they were literally in his face all game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685355#Comment_1685355
What do you mean they didn't hold the game hostage? OP was just standing in the basement and instead of doing gens they went there to harass him.
He could have slugged them all then. The fact they were around means they weren't holding the game hostage. If they were hiding the whole time that'd be a different story (although he does have Whispers).
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@Ace_Ventura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685390#Comment_1685390
You're missing 1/4 of the whole build. No "basically" about it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685349#Comment_1685349
The addons were already nerfed. Months ago.
Sorry but not good enough. They are still awful and need a complete rework. No killer should have passive slowdown effects, especially not one with as much gen pressure as Freddy.
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While I think it sucks what happened, this isn't holding the game hostage or bannable IMO. They were playing the game and things were happening. You even got a kill.
If they hid the whole time and didn't do gens then that I would say is holding the game hostage because they aren't even playing. But getting chased is playing the game.
Really you should have just slugged them all. Picking them up when they have flashlights like that was just not a wise decision.
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@Ace_Ventura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685197#Comment_1685197
I don't play a ton of killer, really. Doesn't stop me from seeing which way the wind blows.
But hey - when you have to use ad-homs to fuel what little baseless arguments you had, you really had nothing. <3
Nothing baseless at all. Those add-ons need a rework. Freddy doesn't need extra gen pressure, especially a passive effect. Period end of story. This coming from someone that was an old Freddy main and played a lot of new Freddy until I realized how stupid his kit actually is.
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Normally I'd agree but sounds are so ######### right now that Stridor ends up being a wasted perk slot.
My advice is to avoid phasing on healthy survivors as much as you can. If you can land the hit without phasing, the follow up should be pretty easy.
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@Mellow7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1684545#Comment_1684545
Bruh, that build ain't ######### vs swf it might do well vs scrubby solos but vs 2-3 experienced solo survivors they can power the gates within minutes. The build is not an issue, it's just a matter of how good the survivors are. Survivors dictate the pace of the game, get noobie survivors= slow game, get good survivors= fast game.
@Ace_Ventura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1684545#Comment_1684545
I mean, Survivor is also the easiest mode in the game. By that logic, I could say "if you can't escape as survivor, stop playing survivor".
Basically - you win some, you lose some. Regardless of build etc. It happens. Don't gatekeep players builds. It's not a good look.
I found the killers that like EZ mode.
Fact is these add-ons shouldn't exist as they do. Freddy doesn't need the help defending gens, he is one of the best gen pressure killers in the game without any add-ons.
I bet you support Iri Head and Omega Blink for the same reasons. Good survivors will beat anything, doesn't mean that ######### isn't ridiculously stupid.
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@Minato_26YF said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683214#Comment_1683214
Whats wrong with his perks lmao? Your just being a douchebag for no reason
What's wrong with his build is that it's literal EZ mode and completely ridiculous. That's like asking what's wrong with Iri Head or Omega Blink builds. They shouldn't exist period. Freddy of all killers doesn't need extra helpings of gen pressure.
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@dD4Soon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683900#Comment_1683900
Oh man thats good to know, I was actually unfamiliar with this reasoning. My proclivity for keeping tier 1 is based on the shorter duration. Discordance 3 has a duration of 12s causing a 50% longer refresh period from Discordance 1(8s) which will provide you with more current/real-time information. 8s is typically far more then enough time to take note for the highlighted gen so benefiting from the t3 increase seems far too uncommon to justify upgrading.
Though the gen completion tracking sounds pretty interesting as well. Can someone explain how this would work?
It doesn't work that's what I'm trying to tell you. Using the timer to track when a gen will be done is only feasible if you know it's just 2 survivors starting a gen together with no perk/toolboxes, never failing a skill check nor getting a great skill check. But there are like 800 variables that can change that time so you can't actually rely on the Discordance timer to track when a gen is gonna be done.
Discordance's main purpose is to alert you to multiple survivors on a gen so that you can pressure more than 1 at a time and stop a gen (potentially). Doesn't matter if it's 8s or 12s, if you're not reacting by the second notification there is no point to using the perk. Anyone that says otherwise is fooling themselves.
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@Mellow7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683214#Comment_1683214
Until gens times get fixed this is what you'll see on every killer who wants to have a chance, that or you'll just see Spirit and Nurse.
This build is basically the easiest killer build in the game. If you can't 4k with this build then stop playing killer.
Swing Chains/Jump Rope/Outdoor Rope should be reworked. Freddy of all killers doesn't need more pressure.
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There is literally no point to saving Discordance 1. People say it's to track how long until the gen is done but 1) you have NO idea about this because 1 survivor could have done half the gen already or it could be 3 survivors instead of 2 which changes the time until the gen is done or they could have perks/toolboxes to do the gen faster, there are like 500 factors that can drastically change the time the gen is done, and 2) if you aren't reacting to the initial notification then there is no point to use the perk as the gen will be finished in a minimum of 45 seconds anyway. The entire purpose of the perk is to let you know where at least 2 survivors are and give you the ability to pressure a gen and multiple survivors at once.
At the end of the day, all tiers of Discordance are effectively the same. If you are using it to track when a gen is going to be finished you are just wasting a perk slot. You should be going to that gen immediately after the notification.
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ACRONYMS
TR - Terror radius, aka the killer's proximity heartbeat.
TOTH - Hex: Thrill Of The Hunt
EW - Evil Within, power of the Shape (Myers). Usually numbered to show tier (eg. EW3)
4e - 4 man escape.
RBT - Reverse Bear Trap, power of The Pig.
TERMS
99 - A term used to describe when a survivor action is nearly completed.
360 - When a survivor spins their character model to avoid a hit.
Looping - Running the same tile to maximize time wasted by the killer in a chase. Usually involves running in a circle around an object with a pallet, sometimes a window.
Safe pallet - A pallet that favors survivors and has little mind game potential. Once dropped safe pallets should be broken or else the survivor can run from the killer forever if they play perfectly. Most killers will need bloodlust to have a chance to catch you at these pallets. Example, a standard 1 pallet tile on Coldwind/Macmillan/Autohaven maps.
Unsafe pallet - A pallet where a killer can easily get a hit with mind games or bloodlust before or after being dropped. Example, most pallets on Hawkins.
God pallet - A specific type of safe pallet that is so strong for survivors it is impossible to get a hit via mind games or bloodlust as killer. Only some killers can beat you at a God pallet (eg. Nurse, Hag). Every other killer MUST break a God pallet to actually catch you, and perfect play is not necessary. Example, shack pallet.
God window - A window that, once vaulted, forces the killer to take a long path around regardless of which direction you go.
Moonwalk - Walking backwards as killer to hide their red stain. Can also refer to a glitchy animation survivors do where they appear to be running backwards.
Immersed - A term used to describe survivors that hide a lot.
Baby Killer/Baby Survivor - A new or inexperienced player. May also refer to under-leveled perks.
Anti-X - A tactic that counters X. Example, Anti-Healing killer builds featuring perks/add-on that make healing difficult or a waste of time.
LT wall/TL wall - A tile common to all maps that feature 2 windows.
Cow Tree - A specific window & pallet tile that spawns on Coldwind (corn) maps featuring a tree, stone wall, and cows hanging from the tree.
Window Tech - A survivor trick where they will walk through the killer's character model as the killer vaults a window in such a way that the killer does not see them and goes in the wrong direction.
Locker tech - When you enter a lock to avoid a hit, usually an insta-down or blink. May also refer to using DS and Head On in combination to get a double stun on the killer.
CJ tech - A technique where a survivor is downed near a pallet, you drop the pallet to stun the killer, they immediately try to break it but you vault the pallet forcing them to pick up the survivor, then you flashlight save the survivor.
Totem Roulette - A killer build featuring all totems. Most common version is Haunted Ground, Thrill Of The Hunt, Devour Hope, and Retribution.
Forever Freddy - A Nightmare build usually featuring some combination of Swing Chains, Jump Rope, Sloppy Butcher, Thanatophobia, Ruin, Dying Light, and Pop Goes The Weasel.
Bodyblocker Hag - A Hag build using the add-ons Water Logged Shoe and Scarred Hand. Hag phantasms will physically block survivors, but Hag cannot teleport to traps. Hag also moves slightly faster than normal.
SM Myers - Scratched Mirror Myers. A Shape build using Scratched Mirror that allows the killer to see auras at will within 32m. The killer is locked to EW1 and thus is very slow and cannot gain bloodlust.
Impossible Skillcheck Doc - A Doctor build using Unnerving Presence, Huntress Lullaby, Overcharge, and Distressing with add-ons that further increase the size of the killer's TR with the goal to make skill checks significantly more difficult.
Omega Blink Nurse - A now patched out Nurse add-on combo featuring both range add-ons.
Scream For Myers - A Shape build using Fragrant Tuft of Hair and Infectious Fright. May also include Dead Rabbit and Distressing. The idea is for the killer to get infinite EW3 and then go around slugging every survivor quickly using Infectious.
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I hate hackers but this is legit funny. Dude puts himself on the hook to deny a hook that is hilarious.
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Your build gave me diarrhea. I do not pity you.
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LMAO killers are more altruistic than survivors.
This is so true. So many times I play killer I straight up feel bad for SOMEONE and give them hatch or something. I never pity another survivor as survivor though, unless they were seriously bullied and/or a baby.
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I hate Doc.
If I had the power I would straight up delete his ass from the game.
######### him.
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His real pressure is mainly between his butt cheeks.
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Good stuff but we need to know your platform and rank to make heads or tails of this.
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If I had the power I would flat out delete Doc from the game. I hate this POS killer.
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Adding a range or headshot requirement is stupid.
- It just makes the game even more inconsistent.
- It's lame and not that great for killer.
- It's unimaginative.
- It doesn't make playing against Huntress any better.
They should go for an entirely different effect. Just let the one shot stuff stay in the past. No one likes that stuff anyway.
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1670157#Comment_1670157
Exposed basically means you are injured.
You are not healthy. You are injured. Your 2 healthstates will count as one.
Plague makes survivors broken. That means that they have 1 healthstate. Coincidentally, Plague has an access to a ranged attack that just so happens to be used most often when survivors are broken.
Iri huntress basically means you are facing 3 (or 1) hatchet huntress while being injured the whole trial. Yeah, that's difficult, I'm not saying otherwise, but there's nothing changes that makes it impossible. You just have to make less mistakes and be more concentrated. It's not that hard if you try.
You can't puke on someone across the map. Corrupt Purge has a very limited range and the projectile is slow enough to easily dodge at the longest range. Plus she has a very long wind up and cooldown period. She also does not have this power the entire game.
Just by the fact any Huntress could just follow you and hit you with an Iri Head at point blank makes it already OP. Huntress hatchet and Plague purge are not at all comparable, other than the fact they are projectiles. They behave very differently.
Imagine defending what is objectively one of the most overpowered things in the game and trying to compare it to a limited time limited range slow speed single health state projectile.
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It's not that great against SWF. They will plow through all your totems in no time then you are left with 2 perks, one of them mediocre at best.
I played this build on a lot of killers for about a week then switched back to Pop builds on certain killers.
Not to mention you can beat it by just slamming gens and making sure to avoid a 3 gen.
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@EuphoricBliss35 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1659591#Comment_1659591
FYI - Xbox isn’t at 30 fps. Xbox actually hits 60 FPS, it’s just not stable. More stable on the One X, but still, not stable. (Larger fluctuations on the Xbox/PS4 vs. One X/ Ps4 pro
The switch on the other hand gets about 15-22 FPS on avg. it’s max is 30 FPS, which it does not hit in game
No the game definitely does not run at 60fps on Xbox. I've played games at 60fps on Xbox and you can tell this isn't 60fps. It's 30 at best. Not sure where you get this info from, literally just play the game and you will see it runs at 30fps.
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Sloppy
Doc
Frankies
Taking Corrupt Purge
Lerys
Menus
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IMHO the entire field of psychology is a ######### joke.
There was a study done a few years ago that found that something like over 70% of psychological research is outdated or flat out wrong. You have to take ever bit of it with a grain of salt.
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Yes I always felt the purpose of Thana was to punish survivors for not healing. Either they slow down on gens or spend time healing instead. It's win-win.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1659591#Comment_1659591
From my own personal testing, it seems that the game doesn't round up or down after the first decimal it merely drops all the numbers after it.
That's truncation, ubiquitous in programming.
Also @Orion there is no cap for survivor actions. The only cap is We'll Make It which doesn't cap overall heal speed, it just caps the max bonus of WMI to +100%. So instead of getting 300% for saving 3 people in 60 seconds, you just stay at 100%.
I didn't say actions were capped, I said buffs were. I confirmed that the Haste bonuses from Blood Pact and Hope, for example, don't stack, meaning they're capped at 7%. However, it could also just be that the biggest buff is applied.
It's not a cap, the effects are just not stackable. It is the same sort of thing as Sheep Block. When a survivor runs through a puddle, they get 30s of Blindness. If they run through another puddle 10s later, the timer just resets to 30s instead of going to 50s. Sheep Block isn't stackable, and neither is Haste for those perks. But you can stack the speed buff of Hope with something like Sprint Burst to move at 157%.
Also you said...
"If I'm not mistaken, healing speed is capped at +100% for each individual healer (that part is very important)."
Which is not true. If it were than it would be impossible to solo heal another survivor in under 8 seconds. However you can prove this is possible with an Emergency Medkit, needle, abdominal dressing, Resil, Botany, Desperate Measures, Spine Chill, and the survivor you are healing having Leader. When you needle them, the heal will be done in something like 5 seconds.
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@Reinami said:
Pretty sure most % effects are additive based on 100%.
For example, PWYF increases movement speed by 5%, but it is assumed a killer moves at 115%, so the benefit is additive and makes you go at 120% speed. Or 115% speed if you are a 110 killer.
Not sure on slowdown effects though, but that would be weirdly inconsistent if it wasn't additive.
Buffs are additive.
Debuffs are multiplicative.
So to find out how long it takes to heal with Sloppy Butcher (20% debuff), 2 stacks of Thana (4% debuff each stack), Botany Knowledge (33% buff) and Resilience (9% buff) the formula looks like this...
16 / (((1 - 0.2) * (1 - (0.04 * 2))) + 0.33 + 0.09) = 13.84083045 seconds
From my own personal testing, it seems that the game doesn't round up or down after the first decimal it merely drops all the numbers after it. So the above value is simplified as just 13.8s. Even if the second digit was 5 it would be the same. However this is testing on Xbox which is 30fps, so accurate measurements are more difficult. It may be keeping the second digit and dropping everything after that (ie. 13.84s).
Also @Orion there is no cap for survivor actions. The only cap is We'll Make It which doesn't cap overall heal speed, it just caps the max bonus of WMI to +100%. So instead of getting 300% for saving 3 people in 60 seconds, you just stay at 100%.
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The second one happened to me twice in one game. Almost cost me the entire game. Kinda BS.
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IMO it makes 0 sense to balance around anything OTHER than the best players. Why? The best players play the game in it's most optimal form. Issues with balance and design will become readily apparent. You can't balance around bad players because bad players aren't predictable. There is no balancing for stupid. The only reliable balance point is around players who actually play the game correctly because it's the only reliable and consistent measure you can make.
And yes there is such a thing as player a game WRONG. For example, if you put on a meme build just to mess around with the killer, that is objectively playing the game wrong because now you aren't playing to win or playing optimally. That's not to say there is something WRONG with PLAYING WRONG, you are free to play as you want, but to expect the game to be balanced around WRONG PLAY is unreasonable.
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I just run Sheep Block all the time. Blindness for 30 seconds is pretty useful as an effect and it counters OOO which is OP against Freddy.