thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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@illuminaegi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1614157#Comment_1614157
I mean, with how many characters there are that have quite a bit of lacking lore, and the fact that the Devs themselves have stated that you can see these characters however you like (such as Autistic), I don't see how people seeing the characters as LGBT is pushing identity politics where they don' t belong. It's not cannon, and it doesn't effect the game/lore.
Sitting here trying to quantify someone's sexuality is 100% identity politics. That's exactly what that is.
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@CEO_Of_Jane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1614157#Comment_1614157
I didn’t ask if we needed representation.. thanks tho lol
You literally just said it.
"The problem here is, is how offended so many people are over a little representation"
No one is offended at representation. We are offended that you force your identity politics where they don't belong. This is a MF video game. Just let people imagine the characters however they want. Stop trying to define everything and place it in a neat little box.
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@CEO_Of_Jane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1614090#Comment_1614090
The problem here is, is how offended so many people are over a little representation..
We don't need representation.
Stop forcing your identity politics where they don't belong.
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@CEO_Of_Jane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1614077#Comment_1614077
I posted my list because I wanted other people’s feed back and their opinions on what the characters sexualities might be as well
And again, who TF cares?
Trying to label this kinda stuff is where the problem is.
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@CEO_Of_Jane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1614072#Comment_1614072
That’s literally what I said if u would’ve read the entire text.. THIS WAS ALL MY OPINON
Posting a list shows you kinda care though.
Like what is wrong with just letting people use their imagination? Why do we need to define anything?
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Who
TF
cares
Seriously why does this kind of ######### need to be written out. Just let it be whatever you want it to be. Nobody cares.
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Imagine asking for more stealth cosmetics when you only need 1.
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Pop is actually useless against good SWF. Split gens and deny him hooks as long as possible. Against a solid team the best any killer can hope before all the gens pop is something like 3-4 hooks.
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"Console have no FPS problems"
LMFAO I'll believe it when I see it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I have no idea why they did that.
I want to make this crystal clear. WE NEVER asked for such a change or a fix to this... WE DIDN'T even know this was a bug.
It wasn't like this before though. The gens are supposed to turn red when fully regressed that was always a thing. It only stopped doing that a few updates ago.
Surveillance will still be a good perk. It's honestly a bit OP when every gen on the map has been kicked and you can't touch a gen at all without being seen.
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Claudette = Tunnel Mori
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Nope.
Still getting hit by Freddy, Nurse and Pig from a mile away.
Still getting hit through windows despite taking several steps away.
Still getting robbed of saves when the bar is 100%.
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@mostlyghostly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1600813#Comment_1600813
Did you read the title? It says 'AT TOP LEVEL PLAY'
Yea people fail to understand this. LOL at pretty much the first 10 replies.
Guys he's not talking about tournament play he is talking about top level play. There is a huge difference. Tournament play includes top level play but top level play is not exclusive to tournaments.
Just get a really good SWF and you will see what he is talking about. And it's not as uncommon as people claim, at least on Xbox. Literally every other game is a 3 or 4 stack, and the ones inbetween are 2 duos usually. Getting 4 solos on Xbox above purple ranks is INSANELY rare.
My team and I just finished the finals of this other smaller tourney. We won, and of the games we played with the 2nd place team (7 rounds, 2 trials per round), killers ONLY got about 16 kills collectively between both teams (which the highest possible is 56 kills for 14 trials). Most games were 1k, there were a handful of 2ks (I played Huntress one game where i was set to get at least a 2k possible 3k but they found a ######### key and the hatch spawned right in front of the guy with the key so I only got 1k), and exactly 2 4k's, both of which were the same round (Freddy on Hawkins) though in our match we were on track for at least a 3e then he had Devour and it all went to #########. So if we ignore the Freddy Hawkins games (because that map/killer combo is just OP period), that means 8 actual kills out of 48 possible kills. That's a 17% kill rate.
Mind you the tournament requires survivors and killers to use their 3 teachables, and killers were limited to specific add-ons, it still shows that the game heavily favors survivors at the end of the day. My team and I also played a bunch of KYF games with no rules other than no pink stuff, and the best anyone was able to get was a 2k (well one game was a 4k but we were meming it wasn't a serious match).
You really can't beat a good group of players, especially if they are on comms.
BOTB tourney just exemplifies this problem.
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@HittingOnHook said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1599835#Comment_1599835
you guys stop suggesting Truetalent as pro looper lol he is a joke
Ussylis is the most methodic so far on loops, explains how is he performing the loops and is near-god-like, better than fungoose, etc
Having said that, I think that "BANSHEE" Claudette that looped me was even better than Ussylis
I didn't even mention True...
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IMO Fungoose and Puppers are the best survivors I've seen.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1599466#Comment_1599466
You just contradicted yourself. "All 1v1 do is prove one player is better than another. I never took a 1v1 despite being better than 95% of the players." It's fine you cant prove spirit has counterplay.
A 1v1 doesn't just show who's better than another. If you say there is counterplay why not showcase it 1v1 or not you should be able to do it. The only artificial thing is the predetermined start area other than that it's a normal chase which you keep trying to say otherwise.
On your gears situation season 1 in ranked match was busted placing diamond meant nothing and the opponents 4 years ago were not good. Diamond in the later seasons such as 6 took more skill.
You claim you beat some many spirits and outplay them and everyone just refuses to learn how to loop differently. Scott jund is no different. Its whatever though man if you cant showcase the counterplay it only makes you look bad.
"You just contradicted yourself. "All 1v1 do is prove one player is better than another. I never took a 1v1 despite being better than 95% of the players." It's fine you cant prove spirit has counterplay."
Yea because I'm so much better than the average player I could "prove" Snub is overpowered. It's not, I'm just a really really good player. It doesn't matter what I use, I will win against the other guy way more often than I lose.
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@ScienceGirl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1599602#Comment_1599602
Banshee Scream:
After being hit by the killer Banshee Scream becomes active. If the killer is standing within your newly formed terror radius they receive the biggest tongue lashing of their life and ultimately are disconnected from the match.
“DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?” - Karen from Finance
Excuse Me Sir:
If the killer damages a generator you are repairing you gain the Tantrum Status Effect for 60 seconds. Any generator you kick during that time will malfunction and automatically repair itself.
“I’d like to speak to your manager” - Karen from Finance
Inconvenience:
It’s a good job you’re there when others don’t need you.
Your presence alone is enough to drive the most sane man crazy. Whenever you stay at least 5 metres away from another survivor you gain an additional 50/75/100% speed boost to all actions.
“Now let me tell you something...” - Karen from Finance
/thread
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OP: Makes salt thread.
Me: "I wonder what a survivor Karen's perks would be?" 🤔
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I want people to stop arguing over who has the cutest feet in DBD.
Oh wait where am I?
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@BloodyNights said:
As someone who plays a lot of fighting games. I don't have issues with characters that have a lot of mix ups. I do have issues with characters who have a vortex. Mix up characters have tools to open you up, but usually if you are good at blocking you can see them coming just before it hits and block accordingly. Vortex characters make you guess, usually after a knock down and on your wake up, you guess the correct action without having a way to know, or react, to what is coming next.
That sounds....a lot like Spirit. Spirit is strong but tolerable imo, until she get's that first hit and you are injured you basically have no real counterplay, you are desperately guessing and are forced to guess. Just like a vortex character in a fighting game. And let me tell you, I hate these characters in fighting games.
Thank you for your input. You have a valid point about vortex characters, I didn't even think about that. Good looking out.
However, as I've stated before, you're not guessing against Spirit. She generally has 2-3 valid options to actually catch you and you usually have at least 1 option on any given tile that would avoid at least 2 of her options. Some tiles can avoid all of them, for example really strong windows like Ward or even Suffocation Pit (both the building and having connected LT walls in the middle).
Against a vortex you are definitely going to get hit, it's a matter of which move you get hit with. Against Spirit you are not always going to get hit because she can't reach you with phase, but the chase will continue because she will end phase and still be following you. It's like you avoid the vortex but the it's still the other guys turn, if that makes sense.
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@Pryzm said:
This is not an accurate comparison. I used to play Spirit. She was the first one I moved away from Trapper for. The problem was, she gave me a false sense of security. I was a middle of the road killer trying to ween myself off of NOED as my crutch. I started using Spirit and felt good. I was getting 3 to 4k every match. I could end loops easily with her power. I could easily locate survivors while phasing through sound. No matter what trick they used, it was easy.
Then I played Trapper and Pig again and got destroyed. I could not sit back and easily isolate survivors. I had to work out mind games and learn from mistakes.
I eventually added one plus one and figured out that Spirit was easy because she does not have much, if any counter play. The best counter play to Spirit is hoping the one playing her is not very good.
Now, I rarely run her unless there is a daily for her. I'm much better as a killer, especially with Trapper, because I did not have the easy win button.
Spirit, especially with Stridor, is not fun for many because she outright eliminates the skill level of the survivors she faces. It is more about the killer's skill level than anything else.
"I eventually added one plus one and figured out that Spirit was easy because she does not have much, if any counter play."
Alternative theory, Spirit makes survivors brains leak out their ears and they just do really really stupid things that actually just make it easier to catch them. I play Spirit, Huntress, and Nurse primarily. I notice that anytime I play Spirit survivors just do REALLY dumb #########. Like super dumb #########. ######### I would never expect them to do against any other killer. ######### that just makes no sense.
Spirit feels easy because survivors overthink how to outplay her and end up outplaying themselves.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1599378#Comment_1599378
You underestimate mine,yours, and all our console players skills. Escaping a pc killer does not make them bad.
In a custom the game runs extremely well if you would go try it you wouldnt try and make more excuses. Maybe you are a really good player and you dont know.
Dude all a 1v1 proves is that one player is better than another, nothing else. That is why I won't take his challenge because it doesn't actually prove anything about the game.
And for the record I never took a 1v1 in my over 20k hours of Gears of War series either, despite being way better than like 95% of the player base (I was placed in diamond rank for TDM and Guardian in the first season of Gears 4, as in I got put in the absolute highest rank from placement matches alone). If I said Lancer is overpowered in Gears 4, someone would come up and say "well 1v1 me with Lancer I'll beat you". Thing is that Lancer by itself isn't OP, it's only OP when you stack them IE. during a team fight. It is easy to avoid 1 guy with a Lancer. It is not so easy to avoid 3 guys with Lancers all covering each other's blind spots, and covering all your approach options. Furthermore, a 1v1 here is the same thing; just show who is the better player nothing else. No one ever proved anything about the game doing a 1v1 in Gears, even when what they were trying to prove was actually quite obvious (eg. Retro in Gears 3 is OP, anyone that plays this game knows this).
In order to prove things about the game you have to play an actual match. Playing a 1v1 in a bubble outside the normal game does not prove a damn thing except which player is better.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1598045#Comment_1598045
I mean it directly proves the chasing potential of the killer. Obviously not the only important point of the game, but to say it proves nothing is a bit disingenuous.
But the entire thing is set up and doesn't represent the actual game.
Again my buddy is a solid survivor. We play in KYF I can catch him really fast because it's just us and in a controlled environment. In an actual game I doubt I could catch him anywhere near that fast because I'm not chasing him in a bubble.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1598010#Comment_1598010
Regardless of that fact the game runs extremely good and it's a non issue making that an excuse.
Imagine thinking a 1v1 proves anything in DBD.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1598018#Comment_1598018
Convenient excuse after convenient excuse. You're pretty good at this.
More like a pointless effort to convince someone that doesn't care to actually have a discussion.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1598001#Comment_1598001
Then start recording your matches against Spirit so we can determine if it's you and your teams outplaying the Spirit or the Spirit outplaying herself. Keeping up with the fighting game talk isn't convincing anyone.
So you can nitpick and dismiss them like every other video? Sure.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1597993#Comment_1597993
Game isnt capped at 30 on consoles if you play 1v1 kyf the game runs extremely smooth. Try it out if you do not believe.
The game might run better with less people, but it definitely does not run at 60 FPS or even "extremely smooth". Look at the skill checks. The game is CAPPED at 30 FPS. Games don't just magically run at a higher FPS.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1597991#Comment_1597991
Yeah even on a base PS4 as long as you restart your game and you're not on an indoor map (or Red Forest/Ormond) you'll be fine. The blight skin should be out too.
Frame rate doesn't even matter as much as survivor in the first place but it's not anywhere near as game changing as he's making it out to be. He just doesn't want to be made a fool, even though he's already kinda doing that in my eyes.
And yeah I dunno, it was just an idea I came up with in 5 minutes while thinking about this thread on the toilet. BHVR could definitely do something better.
Or maybe, as I said, Scott is just a way better player and all this would do is prove he is a better player not that Spirit has no counterplay.
But I see what you guys are doing. "Oh just 1v1 me bro... oh yea he is scared he won't do it that must mean Spirit has no counterplay". No that's not what that means. It means I know I'll die because Scott is just better than me at the game.
Like if we were playing Mortal Kombat and Scott was one of the top players in that game and I'm just some guy that plays like a third as much as him, and he said "Scoprion is overpowered" then 1v1'd me as Scorpion, don't you'd think he win regardless? Yea pretty much the same thing here.
He's never going to get someone to do what he wants in this challenge because there are only so many players on his level. Why don't we make it fair, let's have Scott's Spirit against Zubat, Puppers, Monto, and IDK True I guess. Some of the top players in the game, that seems like a fair match to show whether or not Spirit is OP. But I don't see him going out of his way to set this kind of thing up either.
Don't be intellectually dishonest. You guys know exactly why this challenge is BS.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1597979#Comment_1597979
Yeah I did though he defends spirit heavily but with the chance to prove it he denies it even though if you put it on blood lodge restart your game first and it's a 1v1 its 60 frames for console I play on xbox one s trust me.
The token system might actually work ngl.
This game has never run at 60 FPS on Xbox. It doesn't matter if you are in KYF or not, the game is capped at 30 on console. You are imagining things.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1597934#Comment_1597934
I feel like its not fair to have the defense of "Well you're good at the game so there wouldn't be a point." No one is complaining about bad Spirits that don't know what they're doing.
Bro it's the same thing if you asked Mew2King to prove to you that [insert character] is overpowered. I'm willing to bet regardless of who you pick he can make them seem overpowered because he is a really good player (one of the best in the world) and you're not that good (I assume maybe you play Melee but I'm still confident you are no where near M2K).
Like really what do you expect to get out of this challenge? You saying "1v1 me bro" in a game that's not exclusively about a 1v1. My friend Cesar is really good at the game, one of the best survivors I know, but when we go into a KYF to practice and it's just me chasing him I catch him in like 30-40 seconds as most killers. But I know in a real game I'd spend like 2 minutes easy chasing him. Like yea you caught Zubat pretty fast in a 1v1, but do you think you'd still catch him that fast in a real match? I honestly doubt it. A real game is different than this little highly controlled environment.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that all these types of challenges prove is that you are better than another player, not that there is a problem with the game or character or whatever.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1596954#Comment_1596954
"Ask anyone that plays a game competitively and they say it's for fun."
Yeah. Competitively. That's my point. It's not fun to muck about in competitive games. They're playing to win, and by winning they have fun, not by just playing the game. It's basic psychology: Pit people against one a other and most of them will try to win because they don't care about anything else.
That's not DBD. Go back to the competitive scene. This is clearly not the game for you.
"That's not DBD. Go back to the competitive scene. This is clearly not the game for you."
I legit LOL'd here. Bro, what planet are you on where neither killers nor survivors are sweating to win at high ranks? Like really get with the program.
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@ScottJund said:
Why do people still compare DBD to fighting games? That's just such a ridiculous comparison IMO. Would you really claim to be able to 'read' an unknown opponent if you died in two hits while being unable to see or hear the opponent in a fighting game? You have no time to learn that at all if they are an expert at Spirit.
@thesuicidefox Crossplay is on now. I'm willing to let you show me these Spirit counters at any time.
1) There is a fighting game called Divekick that is literally that. You die in 1 or 2 hits. The entire game is a bit of a meme, but fighting games like this do exist.
2) Some infinite combos exist in some games such that, basically getting hit once or twice is death against a good player. UMVC3's Zero is a prime example of this, he has a 0 to death combo on pretty much every character in the game. All it takes is 1 hit confirm and your character is dead.
3) Yes crossplay is on but there are some issues. First frame rates are still god awful on console and it's honestly not fair at all to play against a PC player with uncapped/stabled 60 FPS while our game can barely run at 30 FPS. If you don't believe me go play on console and just wait until you get hit by Sloppy. The game shits itself. Second, and I've made this point before, you are a good killer. I honestly doubt I could outplay you when you are Bubba let alone Spirit. I mean just the fact you have that one video of you getting like 40 4k's in a row with pre-update speed limiter Bubba should say to you "hey there's not many survivors that can outplay me, period."
Maybe later in the year when the game comes out on Series X and such I'll take up the offer but for now I don't think it will actually prove anything.
EDIT: I'd also like to point out that you clearly misunderstand what a read actually is.
The terms listed below are used when referring to versus fighting games. In this context, moving the control stick HigTech Arcade and Stick LogeTech Arcade forward refers to moving it in the direction that the character is facing, academy stars is "black" and moving it back refers to moving it in the opposite direction.A read is not a REACTIVE action. It is a PREDICTIVE action. You don't read an opponent by reacting to their character's animation or something. You read them by predicting what they will do and then pre-emptively countering them. This is exactly what you need to do against a mix up character, and exactly what you need to do against Spirit. You need to make accurate predictions.
And no a prediction is not a guess I've been over this. A prediction factors in information, previous encounters, and just basic knowledge of the game. A guess is just a shot in the dark. You can predict someone will do a thing. If you skip back a few pages I posted a Smash Melee video of top 10 reads. Again the second clip, Luigi read that Peach would tech roll to the left, so he did a landing wavedash left then did up B on the confirm for the tech roll. He PREDICTED she would do that because she was close to death and the safest option would be to roll closer to the middle of the stage. He might have also notice he rolls left so he was taking advantage of his opponents predictability. Nothing what happened there was him reacting to the roll animation or any of this stuff you seem to think. It was a prediction. He had 4 options, tech roll left (safe), tech roll right (unsafe), tech in place (unsafe) or don't tech (super unsafe). So tell me of those 4 options which do you think the other guy will pick? The safest option, which he did.
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@OllieHellhunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1597158#Comment_1597158
Can I ask in the situation with the freddy were you asleep or awake, if asleep I'm really impressed given that blue glow everyone's got
I was asleep and he had Shadowborn.
It wasn't hard. He hooked someone across the map, I had a feeling he was coming to my gen (why he didn't teleport IDK), so I walked away to another tile. Halfway there I heard the lullaby. He came over, kicked my gen with Pop and looked for me for like 20 seconds. Guy got saved about when he got to me, so by hiding I reset all his pressure because the guy was healed and on another gen by the time he got back.
Stealth doesn't have to be anything crazy. Literally just walk away and don't let the killer see you. If they waste time looking for you that's as good as a chase.
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@Murlo said:
Do you even play the game ? If it was as easy as just "Hide and never get chased" then doctor and stealth killers would be S tier and all the other killers trash. Stealth barely works past rank 15, I can count on my hand the number of times I didn't manage to find a survivor who tried to hide in the past 2 months. And her being 110 makes it so you take like 1 second more to look around a place than 115 killers, damn what a drawback.
You only are 110 for 15 seconds if you use your entire power, which any decent player doesn't do. You don't need more than 2-3 seconds of use to be where you want to be. Addons exist too.
Stealth works just fine at all ranks. It's just not easy at high ranks. I play at rank 1 I literally just finish a game where I was able to hide from a Freddy while he searched for me around a gen. Made him waste a solid 20 seconds before he left to go to another gen, and guess what? I just got right back on the gen and finished. 3e, I escaped.
Hiding is a completely valid and reasonable tactic. If you say it's not then you just suck at it plain and simple.
Also if the Spirit is using their power in bursts then running tiles is even more effective on them. You eventually force them to use a full phase to catch up to you.
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@Murlo said:
Mixup characters in fighting games and Spirit are nothing alike, I doubt OP has even a basic understanding of fighting games to make a post like that.
Mixup situations in FGs are a reward for playing good, Zangief is a very annoying 50/50 character only when he is close to you, to balance that out he is extremely slow, has bad neutrals and huge hitbox. He doesn't magically make you guess just by being there, he has to find an opening first and his reward for playing good neutral with a bad neutral character is strong mixups. Missing a mixup also leads to punishment most of the time, if Zangief's opponent reads the command grab he gets a full combo, if he reads the meaty Zangief looses his offense and his opponent gets control back.
In dbd all Spirit has to do is press M2. It doesn't matter what the survivor does, how experienced he his, how bad the spirit is, as long as she presses M2 she forces the surv to guess. Unlike a fighting game character she indeed does magically make you guess just by being there, she doesn't have to do anything to get her mixup. And what's the survs reward for reading correctly ? Like 7 seconds of breathing room before the Spirit presses M2 again ?
"Mixup situations in FGs are a reward for playing good, Zangief is a very annoying 50/50 character only when he is close to you, to balance that out he is extremely slow, has bad neutrals and huge hitbox. He doesn't magically make you guess just by being there, he has to find an opening first and his reward for playing good neutral with a bad neutral character is strong mixups. Missing a mixup also leads to punishment most of the time, if Zangief's opponent reads the command grab he gets a full combo, if he reads the meaty Zangief looses his offense and his opponent gets control back."
Spirit is a 110 killer meaning it is easier to hide from her than a 115. She can't spend time searching for your, and her power is counter-productive to tracking so she can't use it to find you either. She has downsides outside of a chase, she is just really strong in a chase. If you hide and never get chased, well explain how that isn't counter play.
Spirit has to find you before she can chase you. You don't need to "guess" as you people like to say if she's not chasing you.
Missing a phase has a huge punishment. 110 for 15 seconds. If you miss enough phase hits that's all gens done and game.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1596941#Comment_1596941
None of these tactics work on me when I play spirit. The LOS one is usually countered by simply pretending to phase and they'll double back because there's a 9/10 chance you are trying to cut them off. Using pallets on anything but the safest pallets in the entire game like the basement ones on The Game or the badham basement isnt viable if your visible before phase and vaults are easy to hear.
If she stands still, break LOS of the husk and just put as much distance as possible between you. I've had this work many many times, my guess is you're not committing enough to a direction and doubling back, which means less distance. If she is following you then she will be right on top of you now. If she is going around to cut you off, well now you're cut off and she's pushing you back the other way.
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Should probably rephrase as "killer children" to avoid confusion.
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@OllieHellhunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1596574#Comment_1596574
I mean I've been told league of legends isnt competitive before, some people are just odd.
The entirety of the FGC doesn't consider Smash a competitive game despite Smash Melee single handedly getting x10 more views on Twitch than all other games at Evo combined.
@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1596533#Comment_1596533
Why do people not understand their own heads? The fun in competitive games is the competition - which isn't what DBD used to be about, and isn't what the Devs have been going for, because that would make it available for e-sports and filled with the absolute brainfrying toxicity and sweat that that entails.
No, the game itself is fun, AND winning is fun. No one plays a game that's not fun, whether they win or not. IDK why you insist that competitive games are not fun, that's like your opinion man. Ask anyone that plays a game competitively and they will tell you they do it for fun. Only the top 1% of players may say "I do it for the money" because they are at a point where they actually make a living playing the game, and you don't necessarily have to have fun at work for you to continue to do it, do you?
Also it doesn't matter what DBD "used to be about" whatever that means, or the devs intentions, the game is a competitive game because many many players are playing to win. At least at high ranks where Spirit is most common.
It seems to me you just don't like eSports. Your comments about DBD are just so wrong there is no other explanation.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
"Learn how to counter her". This is a stupid response. There is NO counter to a Spirit with Stridor. Trying to be random wont work because they ahve all the info they need/
Thats the problem. Base spirit with no add ons? Potentially if they aren't a high tier killer you can outplay them. Iron will? Free win (which is stupid as hell anyway). Stridor? Even if you have iron will you're just making it easier for her. There's no "picknig the right option" against her when she has that much info. Its a flawed arguament by people who cant underrstand how unhealthy her design is from a long term game health perspective.
Old freddy was ######### trash but he was unhealthy. Thats why we hated him. LEgion is trash but extremely boring to play against hence the DCs. Spirit is strong, yes. And that MAY be why some poeple hate her or want her changed. But the truth of the matter is that Spirit is extremely unengaging to play against? You think I want to loop killers? hell no its boring as #########.
But you cant take away counterplay without adding some new form in response.
And "just be unpredictable" isnt counterplay because she has all the cards with the sound she hears. This is the equivalent of a Tekken game where that enemy Yoshimitsu can see your buttons before you input them. This aint mordhau. Unpredicatbility doesn't work.
If you read anyone's advice on how to run from Spirit, not one of them says "do random #########". Not one.
You shouldn't be doing random things. You she be doing things that counter what you know to be her only valid options. In most cases that is 1) she is behind you or 2) she went around to the other side to cut you off.
Run tiles. Use windows. Don't ever run back to the husk. Break LOS to force phase. Those are the basics to beat her. Nothing random, no guessing, if you know what she is and is not capable of you can counter play her. It doesn't matter if she knows where you are if she can never hit you coming out of phase anyway.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1595863#Comment_1595863
I'm not going to watch some clip from a completely different game that only supports your argument on a theoretical level. We're talking about the in-game impact of spirit, not some competitive fighting game, and the fact that, like it or not, you're only guessing. You don't know when she's phasing, you don't know where she is when she's phasing, and you don't know what she's doing when she's phasing. Sure, maybe after an entire damned match and 2 gruelling chases you might be able to accurately guess what she's going to do, but by then it's far too late.
Look, DBD isn't and should never be a competitive game. That's not what made DBD popular and it isn't the game the Devs have been making. DBD is a game where winning and losing used to be secondary.
Competitive games aren't fun. That's the core thing about them: the enjoyment comes from beating your opponent, not the gameplay itself. Fighting games are easily the most obvious offenders, but even a casual game of Siege with 9 other memeing friends shows just how boring it is without the desire to kill. People don't play them to have fun, they play them to beat other people. That's what they find fun about them. And that's not what DBD is.
"the fact that, like it or not, you're only guessing"
You're not. Thinking like that is why you get caught in the first place. Stop stating this kind of stuff as a fact.
"You don't know when she's phasing"
You don't need to know.
"you don't know where she is when she's phasing"
There are only so many places she could go to actually get a hit on you.
"and you don't know what she's doing when she's phasing"
She is most likely chasing you. If she's not then what do you need to worry about?
"Look, DBD isn't and should never be a competitive game."
I never asked for it to be. I merely am pointing out that Spirit has counter play and that requires a different skill set than what you need to escape your normie killer type.
"Competitive games aren't fun."
They are hella fun. Smash Melee is one of the most competitive ever AND it is insanely fun. Even at the highest level. The only time it's not fun is if you are playing against a good Puff (eg. Hungrybox). Which I've compared in the past to playing against Spirit, as it is a frustrating experience for many players. CS is a lot of fun and very competitive. People that games competitively initially did so because it was fun. The only ones who maybe don't have as much fun anymore are the top players who are at a point it's a job to them, but they get paid so the fun is irrelevant (to them specifically).
"And that's not what DBD is."
There are literal threads of both killer and survivor mains stating how they get off on killing/escaping while also making the game as miserable as possible for the other side. Not to mention, there are MANY players in this game that play to win and will sweat as much as possible.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1595646#Comment_1595646
And what you just said invalidates half of your argument, something I am surprised you didn't notice. Seriously, if you cannot read a character then that character cannot be read. That's... That's basic logic. And it also means that your "prediction" is actually "guessing," which are two completely different things. And the reason the comparison is unfair is because competative games don't need all-around fun gameplay - so they can have absolutely awful things like that. DBD is a casual game that literally cannot be balanced, so it should at least be fun for everyone.
You can indeed read someone before they act.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TVccz8oHAc&ab_channel=GRsmashThe first clip is a meme, so just go to the second. The Luigi read that the Peach would tech roll left when he spiked her and pre-emptively performed a wavedash and then reactively did up B when he got the confirm on the tech roll left. He did the wavedash BEFORE she teched. That is a read. Therefore, you don't need to see the player to make a read, a read can be a predictive act.
"And the reason the comparison is unfair is because competative games don't need all-around fun gameplay"
This is patently untrue. Games that aren't fun don't last very long in a competitive setting. The game has to be fun before it can be competitive.
"DBD is a casual game that literally cannot be balanced"
I don't agree. It can be and mostly actually is pretty balanced. Gens need to slow down a tad at high ranks, mori/keys need to be looked at, stuff like Iri Head still needs a rework, but for the most part the game is actually quite fair most of the time.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1594746#Comment_1594746
Spirit doesn't allow you to "read" her. That's the problem. On top of that, this isn't a competitive fighting game and it is an unfair comparison.
But... you can't read a mix up character either. Did you read the article? Mix up characters tend to have moves with similar start up animations. In order to counter play these characters you have to predict what they are doing. This is the exact same thing as the counter play to Spirit.
The comparison is only surface level. There is nothing unfair about it.
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It's the one true Morty!
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@CaptainCastle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1595271#Comment_1595271
Its absolutely not. a reactable 50/50 isn't a 50/50 and a reactable mixup isn't a mix up.
If you can react or fuzzy block its neither of those things lol
Reducing spirit to 50/50 is also intensely disingenuous. It's not block high or low, its pick one of half a dozen paths the spirit will take. Not a 50-50.
"Reducing spirit to 50/50 is also intensely disingenuous. It's not block high or low, its pick one of half a dozen paths the spirit will take. Not a 50-50."
There is nothing disingenuous about it. Spirit does not have half a dozen paths she can take, she has usually 2 MAYBE 3 valid options that will catch you in a good situation. Either she follows directly behind you or tries to cut you off. Maybe an alternate path to cut you off or avoid a pallet/window maybe. That means it is a 50/50 because she has to pick on of 2 or 3 valid options. She can't just do anything she wants and catch you, there are practical limits to her power.
Also if you are running at a window it is indeed a 50/50. Either you vault or don't vault, and if it's a decent window she has to predict that before exiting phase. She can't react to you vaulting the window because she will waste her power waiting for you to commit, and if you slow vault or maybe have Q&Q or something then you just baited her to wait on the wrong side and waste her power.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1595023#Comment_1595023
I do like how you are approaching the subject and making the comparison to fighting games, they do have a lot more in common than one might think at first glance
In terms of having no counterplay - I'm of the opinion there is always something you can try to do against every killer. It's whether what that something is will have any impact on the chase. If you could give me a DBD example of what you mean with regards to "having 1 option to counter every option she has" that'd be neat if you have the time.
I'm curious to hear your take
Yea so like, if she is chasing you and you see let's say shack window (a strong window), depending on some things, you can essentially vault that window and counter anything she can do. Unless you are already super close to shack, chances are that she can't phase around to the other side in time to hit you. So you vault the window and then have to go left or right. It's a 50/50, but the idea is that you avoid getting hit out of phase. Obviously that's a super simple example, but that's kind of the idea. You do something that just flat out negates her only valid options. Most of the time that means vaulting a window which she can possibly phase around to get you right after you vault, so she has to pick a side to approach and you have time to continue running as she goes around.
You should always be looking for the path that maximizes the distance she has to phase to reach you so that she can't ever hit you out of phase.
@cristalcaos said:
spirit is far from being a 50/50 character, most of these character in tekken pay a really high price for strong mixups, like weak punishment and weak neautral which are essential to be competitive in the game, moreover if you mess up the 50/50 you are most likely getting launched and die.
if spirit messes up she doesn't get damaged a lot and in ten second you are already in another 50/50, survivor don't like her because they aren't rewarded at all for guessing right at most you'll live 20 seconds more before going down
Which she is a 110 killer and struggles on certain maps that are large or maps with really strong windows. Ward is a great example of an anti-Spirit map, the main building can be really hard to play around if survivors know how to run those windows.
She also lacks tracking, and that is probably the hardest thing to do well as Spirit is finding and tracking survivors.
If Spirit messes up, that's at least 10 seconds of pure 110 chase. If you can do that consistently enough you waste enough of her time for her to reconsider chasing you. Really you only need to do it maybe 3 times for it to REALLY hurt her.
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@Brokenbones said:
Personally it's more of a frustration than a hatred of spirit for myself and that frustration usually only comes into play when the Spirit has Stridor. When I'm facing killers like Pyramid Head or Deathslinger - killers that people have also said they feel are unfair or boring, I don't have the same frustration.
The two factors that make spirit frustrating for me are:
- Stridor makes anything I try to do to throw off the Spirit or make any sort of play almost pointless. Without Iron will even when crouching you're still extremely loud and Iron will only slightly helps with it
- When I'm facing PH or Slinger, it might not be always possible to do something about their powers but at least I can physically see them and try to react to what they are doing (within reason, you can't really juke a Slinger with good aim but you can still SEE him)
The only issue I have with the fighting game comparison you made here, is that, again - both opponents can still see each other. In DBD you physically cannot see the spirit when she's in her power and the footstep noises would be a good way to know, if it wasn't for the loud chase music (and loud grunts of pain from Stridor lul)
I respect your viewpoint on the subject though.
Thank you for acknowledging that your issue with her is frustration and not lack of counter play.
"The only issue I have with the fighting game comparison you made here, is that, again - both opponents can still see each other."
In a fighting game there is a back and forth. A mix up character is strongest when it's "their turn" and they are pressuring the opponent. In this case, it doesn't matter if the opponent can see the other guy or not, they have to preemptively counter them by predicting what mix up they will do. This is how Spirit is like a mix up character, because you have to analyze the situation and commit to an option for knowing what she was going to do. However, in most situations you will have at least 1 option that can counter every option she has at once and give you the highest probability to escape. It would be like if blocking in a fighter counter 3 of the potential mix ups that could be done, so now you only have to worry about him picking a 4th option that is maybe higher risk for him, but a lower chance he would take that option. I know that being able to counter 3 options at once doesn't make it a mix up really, but that's what can be done against Spirit.
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@MrLimonka said:
Yes, let's compare a fighting game to Dead by Daylight.
What's next? Maybe write an essay on how similar Call of Duty is to Farming Simulator? Both have vehicles, right?
It's a simple comparison, stop being snarky.
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1594905#Comment_1594905
You have pointless arguments that doesn't actually solve this so im done talking to you because frankly we will get nowhere
There is plenty of evidence to show she has counter play yet it's always dismissed for the same reasons.
"killer bad"
"survivor lucky"
The problem is your mentality thinking she has no counterplay so you shut your mind to any possibility that could be the case and thus never improve as a player.
Honestly if you want to ever get anywhere with this you need to stop being so closed minded.
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1594895#Comment_1594895
You should escape when you can outlay a killer. If a spirit sucks at looping and you are way better, then uses her power and now has ALL the power that is unfair.
But you can outplay a Spirit. You just don't do it by looping like every other killer, just like you don't beat a mix up character by playing against them like they were a shoto.
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1594882#Comment_1594882
Exactly. Thank you. Every other killer can be escaped
So you just want a 100% guaranteed way to escape then.
That's not a reasonable expectation. You're just asking for the killer to get nerfed because you suck at playing against her. You have many valid options to beat her, but you don't care for any of that you just want the same 'ol looping like every other killer so you don't have to expend the energy to improve at the game.
Also you don't exactly have a guaranteed way to escape every killer, just an invariably higher chance to escape say a Wraith because the game's mechanics lend itself to favor the survivor escaping.