sizzlingmario4
sizzlingmario4
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I feel like Iron Maiden kinda fills this niche already, though it could probably use a buff
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This would be awesome. Usually right now I will quickly look at a bloodweb and grab anything specific I want before auto-purchasing the rest. If there was a way to set specific items/addons/offerings on a per-character basis it could help speed up bloodwebs significantly.
You could also potentially do a hierarchy for all survivors/killers at once for offerings and then have the per-character option to set addons (so for example I could say "prioritize Bloody Party Streamers, then Sacrificial Wards, then Escape Cakes/Survivor Puddings" for everyone, and then on an individual basis set specific killer addons/survivor items on certain characters).
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I don't even bother with charms on most of my survivors. Survivor charms are tiny and barely noticeable, I basically never look at my teammates/opponents' survivor charms because quite frankly I never remember that they are even there due to how small they are. Killer charms are a lot more prominent and noticeable as they are a bit bigger and can be seen on any hook, but survivor charms in their current state just feel like a waste of time to equip honestly, like I don't even know if anyone else in the lobby is going to notice them. Which is a shame, because some charms are really cool looking.
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Completely agree. Thank you Ryan!
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@MaddieMage said:
Genuine question, can someone explain this to me because to my eyes, adding 3 seconds to the gate block after wake up looks like a buff to my eyes. However I don’t play Freddy so hoping someone more knowledgeable can help me understand? What exactly happened here?It is a buff.
Previously, since they made the change to Freddy where survivors now wake up when they are downed, it meant that even if Black Box was in effect and you were asleep you could just run up to the gate blocker, let Freddy down you, and since that woke you up it would unblock the exit gate and you would escape before he could pick you up. So basically the addon did absolutely nothing if you knew this was how it worked.
Now, the blocker stays for 3 seconds after being downed so you can't immediately escape if you don't have any teammates there to interfere.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://c.tenor.com/SSftxL4k4IEAAAAd/tenor.gif
I wanted to add more than just saying "yes"... but... yes.
Triple Blink Nurse has a trophy/achievement, so that would probably need to stay, but agree it needs an appropriate downside.
While we're here I'd like to open the floor to ideas to make Nurse more accessible for newer players... that would be the only part of Nurse still a problem to my mind. Something like:
- Fatigue only dipping your view only slightly, but making survivors, scratch marks and blood spatters invisible to you while you recover would be nice. At least a newbie Nurse can keep looking around and keep an idea where they are at least.
However it's kinda in Spirits territory... maybe if Survivors went invisible like Wraith, shimmer at close range, but invisible over a certain distance while in fatigue, since Nurse and Wraith's powers are linked?
That might be a cool piece of lore to link them.
While I can't test it since I already have the achievement, I think in theory the achievement would still be possible using Jenner's Last Breath. Though that is a bit more obscure so I would understand if the devs do not want to tie it to that specifically.
@Rokku_Rorru said:
Yeah I feel my issues with nurse would be gone if she was punished for making mistakes more, the lunge addon is my biggest dislike from her recent addon pass
Yeah, the extra lunge turns chain blinks which should be misses into hits that she shouldn't really be given considering how strong she is, that's part of my issue with it as well.
I feel like her actual miss cooldown/recharge time is fine and isn't really the problem with her (though the old recharge addons were problematic and were rightfully removed). Missed chain blinks just need to actually result in a miss instead of getting bailed out by 30% increased lunge with zero downside or prerequisite that she didn't actually earn.
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Weaving Spiders is almost fine the way it is, it just needs to work on blocked gens. I realize the general rule is that blocked gens can't change their progression but given that this is a unique effect and comes with a hefty time investment + downside, it should just work regardless. But when it does apply to every generator, you can really feel the difference in gen speeds the rest of the match, it's not a negligible bonus at all and in the right situation I do think it's worth it.
Treacherous Crows on the other hand needs a more significant buff, the terror radius requirement limits it too much and 2 seconds is too short, sometimes you barely even notice the aura reveal. I think it could also gain an additional effect where the survivor who is Broken also gains the ability to not disturb crows (like Calm Spirit) making it more likely the killer would instead. Weaving Spiders makes up a lot of its time investment by reducing the end goals of the main objective, but Treacherous Crows doesn't, and it somehow needs to be worth that time investment.
I do not think invocations should be allowed to stack/all be completed with one ritual. This wouldn't be an issue with the current state of the perks since Treacherous Crows is far too weak in its current form, but I do think it could be overbearing if there were (eventually) 4 invocations that were actually as strong as they should be. With boon stacking it's different because the killer can also put them all out with one snuff action and disable a large chunk of your build at once, but invocations are permanent once completed and share the penalty of being broken (ie. being broken a 2nd time changes nothing) so I think stacking would be overkill if the individual perks were all actually good. If all invocation perks were as strong and potentially game-changing as they should be, there would be little reason not to stack multiple and complete them all at the same time if it were allowed.
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I agree, but only while cursed, not all the time.
I would also increase the endurance duration to 10 seconds to be in line with WGLF.
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While I agree from a balance perspective, I'm not sure if the ceiling down there is high enough above the ground to actually allow enough vertical space for a hook.
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Congratulations
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It still wouldn't be a good perk, but yes.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879039#Comment_3879039
The question isn't if he's too strong or if he has counterplay, it's strictly whether his kit is bloated.
For instance, I would argue Wesker really does not need the Killer Instinct and his power would probably be healthier without it. That doesn't mean he's "too strong" in a linear fashion, but just that his kit has extra stuff in it that doesn't need to be there. I'm just curious if anyone has arguments for why those extra things should be there, which a few so far have.
Fwiw - Killer Instinct is probably the one thing I could see being unnecessary in his kit. Not saying it's overpowered or problematic, just that it might not be needed is all.
The Deep Wound when 2 survivors collide has always been there if the non-thrown survivor was already injured (because it never downs you, so it deep wounds instead) but originally on his PTB that actually wasn't a thing for healthy survivors - they would just become injured. After the PTB I remember them saying in their dev update that they were changing it to always cause deep wound simply to make it more obvious what had happened to the survivor that hadn't been thrown (and that sometimes on the PTB it wasn't clear enough what had happened), so that's why it's like that now.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
When you literally can't find out how Unknowns Hindered last for in game, it just says applies hindered lol
So many hindered things in the game (addons too) do this where they don't even tell you the slowdown percentage and it's extremely annoying lol. All the haste stuff gives an exact percentage, why can't hindered too?
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I've never considered Wesker's kit to be bloated. His original infection mechanics and 8% hindered were a problem but that got the nerfs it needed. I feel like Wesker is completely fine the way he is right now, he is a very interactive killer for both sides, has a strong chase power with fair counterplay, and the infection mechanics are quite lenient for survivors now after the changes which I think is okay. He is in my opinion one of the most well-designed killers in DBD.
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Agreed, these could benefit from updates and also a few older killers still have very old descriptions with extremely limited information that (unlike newer ones) don't explain anything about how to control the power (look at Huntress, Hag, and Nurse to see what I mean by this). I believe Hag's also doesn't say anything about trap wiping.
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Technician should reduce the skill check fail penalty, not increase it
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No, you're not missing anything. Since you now wake up when downed instead of when hooked, it makes Black Box irrelevant as the exit doesn't stay blocked anymore. It's a pretty significant oversight.
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I agree, it should go back to what it was in 8.4.2/the 8.4.0 November PTB. The instruments sounded much better and the layer 1 + 2 terror radius was also much more fitting and just sounded more coherent overall.
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Crouching over trails is fine and is a needed form of counterplay. If anything the trails should just last a bit longer when placed in the ground, the duration can be a bit short without addons.
Torment on M2 hit absolutely cannot ever happen, they already tried this on a PTB and it was terrible, it got reverted immediately.
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I disagree, the limits are fine and still have a place in the game. While it's true that perks like Eruption can sometimes use up 8 regression events without necessarily 3-genning, at that point assuming 4 Eruptions you've gotten at a minimum 60% regression on that generator + whatever was lost due to gradual regression over time. If you're losing games to the regression limits in pretty much any circumstance, you probably did something wrong. If you aren't holding a 3 gen then usually by the time Eruption or Surge locks you out of a gen you should already be in a winning position in most cases. I don't 3 gen and I have never ever lost a game to the regression limits.
I really don't think that this is an issue and if the system were made more relaxed in any way it would often fail to do what it's designed to do, 8 regression events is more than enough. Overall the whole package of changes in that update was actually a net buff to killers due to gen kicking becoming more effective.
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Several older killers did. They started making unique chase themes for every killer when Demo came out, ever since then each new killer has had their own but prior to that most killers had the default music. Before then, the only killer who had their own chase music was Myers.
Billy, Nurse, Hag, Doctor, Clown, Spirit, Legion, and Ghostface all used to have the default chase themes, their current themes have all been implemented in updates to those killers and were not originally in the game at their release.
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I would be very interested in this as well.
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877476#Comment_3877476
I mean if we are going down that route we also have to delete keys from existence since they are mostly used selfishly. And then we might as well remove hatch because lets be honest some people just play for the hatch. Maybe also they should change their steam page description to "forced team game" instead of "survive together or alone" Sorry but it feels unfair to remove playstyles and force only literally one playstyle. If we are gonna go that route for survivor then we must remove killer playstyles too honestly.
If anything, I would like to see keys get some kind of additional effect that makes them more useful throughout the match without addons (either aura reading or something else, doesn't matter).
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877510#Comment_3877510
Nah, don't touch the keys. I just started using Blood Amber and Prayer Beads.😭
But yeah, I agree it's really not problematic at all and just rework selfish perks. I have seen people talking about how people would lobby dodge these selfish perks, but if they actually did something to benefit the team — as DBD is a team game, we wouldn't have this issue.
Wake Up was fine the way it was, either revert or keep it the way it was. Rework the four other selfish perks that enable stealthing around and waiting for people to die. Don't touch the keys as I like to mind game with the killer. 😂
I assume by 4 perks you mean Left Behind/Sole Survivor/Clairvoyance/Low Profile?
Left Behind + Sole Survivor I agree.
Clairvoyance can be fixed by just removing the hatch aura and replacing it with something else (perhaps reveal auras of other survivors?), maybe also increase the duration to make up for it, but it doesn't need a full rework.
I actually don't think Low Profile is as problematic as the rest as while it can be used for selfish purposes it can also be used to save your team in desperate situations (especially if the killer is trying to slug everyone), since unlike Left Behind/Sole Survivor, the other survivors don't have to be dead for it to activate, just downed or hooked is enough. Occasionally I'll run Low Profile + Unbreakable + a healing perk (either Botany, Desperate Measures, or WGLF, or two of those) and I've had matches where being able to run to survivors without the killer noticing or being able to track me combined with faster healing has saved the game, especially since the no scratchmarks/pools of blood/grunts of pain lasts a full 90 seconds even if you pick someone up. Obviously this won't come into play every game, but nonetheless it is a way to use Low Profile altruistically and there's no other survivor perk that can do everything it does for as long as it does.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877555#Comment_3877555
leader doesn't stack with itself but you can duo-heal. so if u have 3 people. you get 50% healing which same speed as botany. i don't think they want buff it because if they buff it by like double, you'd get 100% healing speed from 1 perk. that stuff can go crazy with botany knowledge and we're gonna live forever.
Leader+MFT+We're gonna live forever+botany knowledge will be picking people up on the floor like old FTP+Buckle up.
Yeah, the fact it does affect healing is why I said only 33% and not something higher. I do agree doubling it to 50% would be too big of a buff.
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I think you could easily increase both Leader and Streetwise to a 16 meter range and 33% bonus instead of 25% and that would be fine.
@Memesis said:
Absolutely, but none of them should stack with duplicates
Leader already doesn't stack with itself. (but Streetwise does)
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I agree. Sole Survivor and Left Behind should both get reworked. Perks which only have value as the final survivor/for selfish playstyles are not healthy for the game. It's very discouraging for other survivors and there shouldn't be perks that solely encourage/benefit this playstyle. Wake Up was perfect at 50% on the PTB and the nerf it got goes beyond only punishing that playstyle, it makes the buff compared to the previous 25% version less impactful in a 3v1 and completely nonexistent in a 2v1.
I would be okay with making Wake Up only activate if all the generators are finished (ie. not if the gates are powered by closing hatch) as long as it remains at 50% in all scenarios when it's active. If you finish all 5 generators and reach endgame then the perk should be strong no matter what, it does nothing the entire match until that point.
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Massive nerf. It says "hide your red stain", not undetectable. And 2-minute cooldown.
I'm almost questioning if this is an error because that's literally the original version of the perk from years ago (ie. before undetectable even existed) just with slightly better numbers.
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Hag is really rare.
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Did you complete the invocation while Thrilling Tremors was active and blocking all the gens except the main building? Blocked gens are not capable of receiving the charge reduction from Weaving Spiders.
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I saw this happen too. The bots have no idea how to use the jigsaw boxes and eventually they just die.
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Knight's guards are not very effective for camping. If a guard is near the hook, all you have to do to counter them is get detected by them (starting a hunt) and then start to unhook the hooked survivor. As soon as you begin the unhook interaction (you don't even have to finish it) the hunt ends and the guard goes away.
Hope this helps!
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Okay, here's mine:
- Ability to customize the lobby, including the ability to use older backgrounds and lobby music
- Nerf Nurse and Blight
- Addon passes for several killers including but not limited to: Pyramid Head, Wesker, Twins, Pig, Myers, Bubba, Dredge, and more
- Trapper buff
- More perk adjustments on both sides (mostly buffs at this point with a few exceptions)
- Knock Out rework
- Boil Over rework
- Something done about slugging the last 2 survivors
- Toolbox rebalancing including a nerf to Commodious toolboxes (and event toolboxes which are the same)
- Syringe nerf
- Remove map offerings
- Anti-camp bar visible to all survivors on the HUD at all times
- More Chaos Shuffle
- Improvements to daily rituals/increase bloodpoints
- Buff maps (the item) and make keys more useful for purposes other than opening the hatch
- More loadout slots for each character (ie. more than the 3 we currently have) as well as an in-game perk randomizer
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@Heliosse said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875390#Comment_3875390
During the "Thrill is 45s" era, i faced a Vecna that used this add on to make us scream and interrupt the cleansing, it was counterable, but painful. He also made sure to keep us injured of course.
The Devour was in the center of the map, in the main building (asylum so great map for us), up the stairs and after some meters. It was long to go there and he could interrupt us every ~30 seconds. Not even counting it's physical presence on top.At least he could not interrupt us with FoTD.
Once the Devour kicked in, we quicky lost the trial.
With some coordination and a more tactical approach, we could have won, but damn, what a build.
Your build reminded me of this, Vecna interrupting survivors with the iri. Great build !
Tbh even with current Thrill at 35 seconds (at 5 tokens) this would probably still work fairly well, the sphere cooldown is also 35 seconds so you would still be able to get decent value on interrupting the totems. It's not unstoppable though, you only scream while injured so if you heal then it would force Vecna to actually come to the totem himself - though at the same time if survivors are wasting time healing while exposed from devour then that's not a bad thing for the killer.
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Neither of these would be good changes.
Hag would be far too oppressive if she had the ability to chase normally as a 4.6 killer. Her power is specifically designed around her not having that option.
Making Blight 4.4 would not address or fix most of the things that make him problematic. I do think Blight needs changes, but not this.
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My first goal for this year is finishing this achievement:
This is the only one I have left, I've completed everything else.
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Yes that happens sometimes, it's a very common bug. It's nothing new, it was already a thing long before she got nerfed.
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@Heliosse said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/W2ISBYMACSCE/20241227210408-1.jpg
To preface this, i can say that i play a lot of Alien since it's my main (one of my two P100, the other being Pyramid Head). I mostly play stupid build like the one im going to explain below.
The build i want to talk about is :
Monitor/Rapid brutality/Mindbreaker/Surveillance
The immersive idea behind this is to be very informed of survivors whereabout, ambush them and seal the deal very fast or disapear.
Monitor and Rapid are the core idea. You either ambush them with the tunnels or approach them with monitor. They will have troubles pre running, even with turrets. Usually, survivors starts to flee when the beeping intensifies a lot, with 18 m/s in tunnel, you will be on top of them. You can also decide to approach from another angle and benefit from monitor, this will confuse them. Xenomorph change it's TR whenever it loses it's power or carry a survivor, with monitor, the TR will be even more inconsistent. Most of the time, they will start running too late. If you encounter a smart one, you can try a bait with the aid of the turrets (i'll elaborate this in the cereal ration part, but you can do it just with the footsteps detection, in short, make the turret beep, watch as the survivor start to GTFO, and follow them underground, then, ambush them for another control station).
When ambushing, use rapid brutality first if possible, then follow up with a tail strike to seal the deal in ~20 seconds, the goal is to chain very short and effecient chase or drop them after getting rid of ressources to further increase the chance of succes of your next ambush.
If they run to a turret, break it and leave if you sense the chase is going to be too time costing.
Mindbreaker will stop them from using sprint burst or other exhaustion to escape your ambushes and Surveillance will keep you informed of survivors activity around key generators. It also makes hearing gens from underground easier.
Nota: Spies from the shadows is nice to replace Surveillance if you want to play Semiotic keyboard. Crawler mode does not alert crows and with 16 meters of TR, you will be stealthy enough to make the survivor think they can disturb crows with impunity. The information gathered with this perk can be very decisive at time.
Fire up can replace RB, the added stats will be handy and you will lose generators.
For add ons, you can use:
Acidic blood: Usefull to have a visual indicator of the time spent in a chase and will simplify your approach.
Self-destruct bolt: Increase your ambush success rate with quick follow up (in shack for exemple).
Kayne's helmet: Just a little love tap before leaving if you have no opportunity to seal the deal fast. Keeping them injured will create opportunities for future ambushes.
Cereal ration: This add ons will let you know if your presence is revealed or not, allowing you to follow survivors who are pre running to the nearest station and potentially ambush them, countering their plans. Does not work everytime, but can be usefull.
Emergency helmet and Lambert's star map: Always usefull to resist turrets, i never use them together and rarely use them at all. They are very valuable but i simply prefer other add ons. Using them or one of them is good for using basic attack on turrets thus losing less distance, probably the two best add ons alongside self-destruct bolt. I recommend Lambert's star map over emergency helmet.
Semiotic keyboard: Can be used to switch Surveillance off for another gimmicky perk like Dragon's grip to increase your ambush potential. Unforeseen can also confuse them.
Crew headset: One of my personal favorite, it's not usefull to patrol gens since you will hear them. But it is incredibly usefull to find a weak target, cut off someone or gather informations early and late. Very usefull add on.
This looks super interesting. I'm definitely going to try this
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Here's a few:
If you're confident in your ability to survive while injured then try this. Since using FTP to heal someone else counts as finishing a heal for Clean Break, the idea is essentially that you can stay Broken for 2 minutes and in the end you got to instant heal another survivor and eventually you get healed back up yourself too with minimal time investment, you just have to wait for FTP Broken to end and then get someone to start your Clean Break. IW is there to help you survive while injured and Empathy helps you find injured survivors to heal. You can use any item you want with this, doesn't really matter.
This basically revolves around using Dramaturgy and making it even more powerful than normal. At the start of the match you want to get Hardened active as quickly as possible, if you find a totem before you find a chest, Illumination can show you where the chests are (and then also helps you and the rest of your team find generators). Once Hardened is active, if Dramaturgy would normally make you scream, it reveals the killer's aura to you instead, making 3 out of its 4 random effects positive for you. If you do get exposed, Finesse can help you survive it.
At first glance Sloppy/BBQ/DMS looks like a somewhat meta build but there's a special gimmick to this build that makes it unique - these addons in combination with these perks help you interrupt things.
- The iridescent addon Vorpal Sword makes your dispelling sphere cause injured survivors to scream when they get revealed and also inflicts the Broken status effect for 30 seconds (you also gain the ability to break pallets with Mage Hand but that's not what we're using it for here).
- The yellow addon Glass Eye makes the dispelling sphere 2 meters bigger and makes it travel 10% faster.
- After you hook a survivor, you can see faraway survivors with BBQ and use your dispelling sphere to either force them to scream if they're on a gen (triggering DMS) or if you see someone healing you can send it to them and stop them because the addon will make them Broken.
- When this happens, Hemorrhage (either from Sloppy or Blood Echo) will immediately kick in and regress all their healing progress while they're Broken with nothing they can do to stop it. If convenient for you, you can also go and chase them and Blood Echo will likely have them exhausted as well, on top of them being unable to heal because of your addon. You do have to get a good start to the match for this to be super effective, but Vecna is pretty good in chase and if you get this build going it can often snowball the game for you.
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It's not unlimited, it has a 40 second cooldown which is longer than his other spells
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For chaos shuffle and 2v8 I'd say 2 weeks.
If they ever try Lights Out again I'd only give that 1 week since it's been generally unpopular the last two times (personally I hope we never see it again).
As much as I initially wanted chaos shuffle to be permanent I don't think it's feasible for any modifier or game mode to be permanent in the long term since separate queues messes up the queue times too much (and bots are not an acceptable solution imo).
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I've been playing it and having a great time overall on both sides. The game is 10 times more fun when you don't play against the same small group of perks every single match.
Every time chaos shuffle has been available I've played it exclusively (as in, not playing normal mode at all) until it's over and this time is no different
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874833#Comment_3874833
The screen being very dark when you were close to bleeding out was a non-issue considering that was 100% avoidable. Just mend instead of greeding gens.
The full bar vignette didn't really obscure your vision that much anyway. This might end up being a nerf to a killer that already struggles in chase a lot… unless people start dropping dead because they forget they needed to mend, anyway.
I mean I would support giving Legion some buffs anyway regardless of the deep wound changes, I feel like they're a bit undertuned
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While you're right that removing the vignette does actually make it less obvious, the vignette itself was obnoxious. I wouldn't have been opposed to toning it down as opposed to removing it altogether, but something about it had to change. It made the screen way too dark when you were closer to bleeding out.
I'm not sure how much it would help, but I wouldn't mind if they also added deep wound as an actual status effect on the right, just as another reminder that it's there.
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I wouldn't mind the zombies moving faster or being stronger in general if the ability to stun them wasn't locked to flashlights. As they are, despite their slow speed they are often still very good for taking survivors off generators and wasting time if they don't have a flashlight to quickly stop them. You can pallet stun them, sure, but you can't always do that efficiently nor is it often worth giving up a pallet to do it, especially considering how quickly Nemesis can get rid of pallets in chase. I was actually a bit surprised that this was left untouched when Lightburn and those other special flashlight interactions got removed, since this isn't really that much different. Imo, counterplay to components of a killer's power should never be tied to items unless they are special items which are guaranteed to be available in the trial (ie. Singularity's EMPs). TLDR: If the ability to stun them was more widely available, then I'd be all for making the zombies better and/or even adding a 3rd zombie if that's a possibility. Otherwise, it's not really necessary especially after Nemesis' last round of buffs, he's quite strong now as he is.
I agree there should be an auto-reset mechanism though if the game detects that a zombie is stuck somewhere.
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Bug or not, it shouldn't be like that. Killer objects should always take priority.
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@BloodBird said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872195#Comment_3872195
As of yet I've seen no need for further updates :)
I found one more thing to fix, Dracula shouldn't be included in blindness. He had an addon for that in his PTB but it got changed because it was really bad (it's the hinder addon now; the old effect was "Passing within 1 meter of a survivor during teleport inflicts Blindness for 10 seconds." and no the 10 seconds is not a typo it really was that garbage)
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The action speed should be doubled and once activated it should linger for like 5 whole seconds instead of only 0.5 seconds.
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It's a fun addon. You can use it with Starstruck/Agi to expose survivors up to 52m away, combined with Houndmaster's ability to quickly get across the map and find people with Search it can be pretty effective.
Alternatively you can stack it with Monitor, send the dog out somewhere and have a tiny 16m terror radius outside of chase.
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Other than Skull Merchant, there isn't any other killer who needs a rework of the level that Freddy got.
I think Trapper and Myers could use some bigger updates at some point, but not full "reworks"
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I play almost every survivor at least some (only surv I never play as is Leon) and I play most killers, but I did correctly guess Feng and Wraith were my most popular, I doubt it's by a lot though. Based on games played looks like I played around 65% survivor 35% killer which is about what I expected to see.
43.3% escape rate as survivor, and an average of 7.79 hooks per game as killer, not too bad I guess especially considering probably 80% or more of my survivor games are solo queue and I usually never bring full meta builds on either role when I play (I like trying all different kinds of perks and addons to mix things up, it makes the game more fun for me even if some builds aren't as strong).