shmoul
shmoul
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Hell yea! Maybe now they'll make it so I won't fall asleep while getting chased by a spirit.
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I'll just make a list for this, from the most fun to face to the least fun to face.
- Hillbilly.
- Huntress.
- Demogorgon.
- Wraith.
- Bubba.
- Pig.
- Myers.
- Hag.
- Doctor.
- Legion.
- Nurse.
- Freddy.
- Plague.
- Clown.
- Trapper.
- Spirit. The absolute worst to face. I pretty much fall asleep any time I verse her because she is not engaging at all and usually when you get caught it's because you guessed incorrectly.
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
I can't take you seriously when you say that you hate leatherface who is one of the worst killers in the game. No offense, but you are clearly new to the game and I think not more than rank 14. My advice is, play more killer and survivor and then come here to cry for nerfs.
You are so wrong. Your mindset is that survivors just hate everyone who is powerful, when in reality survivors hate what they don't find fun going against. For example I don't like clown or trapper even though neither is that strong, but I love versing billy and the huntress.
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In your 3rd year anniversary livestream you said that both the free and the premium track are accessible via playtime. As of now though, the premium track costs a thousand auric cells which cannot be obtained with playtime. Did your plans change or is there another change coming allowing us to earn it for free?
EDIT : I guess it means the rewards are accessible via playtime. Stupid mistake on my part.
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@MemberBerry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/718326#Comment_718326
Yes, they waste time to pick the item up and waste 10% of charges, but:
- You also waste a perk slot for doing just that 1 thing
- Keys don't have charges unless you want them to (especially considering most people run add-ons that let you keep the key in case you die or use it), instaheals too only have medkit charges if you want them to, and survivors usually run a commodious toolbox with best add-ons which allows you to do 2,5 gens with it.
- Most often perks are only for doing 1 thing. Franklin's isn't required anyway.
- Exactly why I said I don't think instas or keys are fine.
Anyway, this discussion isn't going anywhere. I think it'd be best if we just leave it here.
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@MemberBerry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/717524#Comment_717524
I can literally say the same thing against toolboxes, instaheals, keys, ds and adrenaline. None of those things have any counterplay (no franklins isn't counterplay because they can pick the item back up, and no, invincibility for an entire minute isn't ok, because less people in game = less gen pressure on the killer), there is no skill on the killer side anymore because you can't perform any counterplay. And this ALSO brings up that same question- "Why bother playing against those things then?".
As I always said, unless you want all killers to wave goodbye, you're not allowed to touch Nurse (besides addons), Spirit and Ebony unless you touch keys, toolboxes and instaheals with it.
At first I want you to stop thinking that you speak for all killers out there. Remember you're only voicing your own opinion here, not all killers will agree with you on all your points.
You're right. Franklin's isn't counterplay. It's a counter, which allows for limited counterplay. It also takes 15% of the item's charges with it, and survivors going back to pick their items up wastes their time not to even mention that you're being able to get more awareness of where the survivors are based on where you made them drop their item. Remember, you as a killer can see survivors in lobby beforehand and take what you think you'll need, unlike survivors who can't know which killer they're facing.
I'd also like to point out that items are the equivalent of add-ons for killers. Anything you said in your comment can also be said about add-ons. I believe that as long as the effect is not major, it doesn't need specific counterplay. (But yes I agree that keys are op, I never said they aren't, so are instaheals, but so are many killer ultra-rares and moris)
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@MemberBerry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/716856#Comment_716856
Love how you say that, yet every ignorant person's solution on these forums to genrush is "running pop ruin etc."
@MemberBerry Well who said running them is counterplay? Counterplay and counter are two completely different things. The difference between the two should be obvious, but I guess I have to explain it to you: In DBDs case perks are NOT counterplay, because you have to prepare them in advance. Counterplay on the other hand is something you can just do by using the mechanics of the game.
Now spirit may have some slight counters, eg. iron will (this is easily countered by the spirit with stridor) or quick and quiet, but she has no counterplay. This means that without those perks there is no real skill on the survivor side anymore, because you cannot perform any counterplay. This brings up the question: "Why bother playing against a spirit then?" Many of the people I know have stopped playing against them, and I'm so damn close to giving in myself.
To sum it all up, I could easily fall asleep during a chase against a spirit just because of how unengaging it is.
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@MemberBerry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/716533#Comment_716533
She can't hear you if you have iron will, qnq also works for mindgames. You can also walk to avoid getting easily tracked.
Good spirits can hear your footsteps or use stridor. She can also bump into you even if you guessed what she's gonna do correctly, walking is also slow and if she sees that scratches don't continue she can just come out of her phase.
PS. Perks are not counterplay
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@MemberBerry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/712225#Comment_712225
If you can see where she's phasing, it deletes all mindgames. If that's what you want, go ahead, but good luck finding a match at high ranks because no moron will play against you then.
When you can't know if she's phasing, where she is or how much time she has left on her phase. The spirit knows where you were before phase, she can see your scratches, she can see your blood, and she can hear you. Please explain to me how that's a mindgame.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/714569#Comment_714569
So it's okay to punish random Killers for be the unlucky one that gets matched with the voice chat group?
Playing against a SWF group is not a punishment.
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@MemberBerry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/708478#Comment_708478
Do you unironically believe Nurse and Spirit need to be reworked? If so I'm not even gonna bother arguing...
@MemberBerry Well not reworked but nurse needs bug fixing and some slight nerfs (+ the addon nerfs) and spirit just needs to give survivors more information so they can act accordingly instead of trying to guess something random and praying that it works.
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@MemberBerry said:
Until there's a secondary objective in the game, and until keys are reworked, lobby dodging should never be punished imho.
DC-ING SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED, BUT LOBBY DODGING SHOULD.
Until nurse and spirit are reworked lobby dodging should never be punished imho.
Now I don't actually think that, but I'm just trying to show you that it works both ways. I don't support dcing and I don't mind lobby dodging but keep in mind that survivors are people as well, and many of them don't want to play against certain killers / addon combos, just like you don't want to play against certain items.
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I disagree heavily. Coming from another survivor main here is my list. (Within tiers best to worst from left to right)
SS Tier: Nurse and Spirit
S Tier: Hillbilly and Hag
A Tier: Huntress, Freddy and Myers
B Tier: Doctor, Trapper and Clown
C Tier: Ghostface, Leatherface, Pig
D Tier: Wraith, Plague, Legion
You SEVERLY underestimate Huntress and overestimate Myers. Huntress has WAY more chase potential, and she's good with multiple people to at a time as well.
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@MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky said:
Man all of you just want it easy? Easy chases, easy wins, easy hatch escape, what else do you want easy?
What's so challenging about hoping the spirit makes the wrong decision? As of now, you as a survivor rarely have any input on the chase since you aren't given anything to make your decisions off of. Hence playing against a spirit is regularly called a guessing game.
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@Peanits Why does the game check it when the killer's weapon is still up in the air far away from the survivor? Shouldn't it only do those checks once the killer's weapon is extended forwards?
A nice way to try this and realize it's a problem is trying to lunge past someone working on a generator. Try it. The game will force turn your camera on the survivor even before you should have hit him, as the game registers a hit way too early when there would still be time to miss. I feel that this is the "hitbox" issue that many players also talk about.
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Sure, spirit is fun to play. I hate to say it, but spirit's "mindgames" are all one sided and as a survivor you have zero information, leading to you just guessing what the spirit will do.
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/666703#Comment_666703
I dont think the pallet vacuum was intended.....
If I remember correctly they added pallet vacuum on purpose a very long time ago, because killers were getting hits through pallets all the time and it was pretty much impossible to stun the killer without getting hit. I could be wrong though
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/666703#Comment_666703
Read my post before responding next time please
"So you list off all the biggest game breaking bugs and items fixed years ago and and this is supposed to convince me ? Amusing the only one from recent was the healing change and it was a whopping 4 seconds..plus survivors have a library of tools to speed up healing so that's completely irrelevant..and I simply love botany knowledge so yes I do speak from experience"
So in your first sentence you claim those were game breaking bugs. Game breaking part is arguable, but the definitely weren't bugs. The healing change was actually pretty significant, it basically made sc useless. Why does the frequency of the nerfs even matter?
The devs don't nerf or buff for the sake of it, they do it because they have a reason to do so. Stop trying to push your "survivors op, buff killers plz" without explaining your reasoning and providing solid examples. You're basically acting like a kid, deaf to anyone else's comments and when someone disagrees they're a filthy survivor main and their opinion doesn't count.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/666677#Comment_666677
So you list off all the biggest game breaking bugs and items fixed years ago and and this is supposed to convince me ? Amusing the only one from recent was the healing change and it was a whopping 4 seconds..plus survivors have a library of tools to speed up healing so that's completely irrelevant..and I simply love botany knowledge so yes I do speak from experience
Old exhaustion wasn't a bugged
Old decisive wasn't a bug or bugged
MOM worked as intended
Pallet vacuum was intended
Pallet quantity wasn't a bug by any chance
Instablinds weren't any more of a bug than other addons are
BNPs were working as intended
So what the hell are these "game breaking bugs" you're talking about here?
Stop with the "us vs them" attitude. It leads to nothing positive or constructive.
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@TKTK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/653245#Comment_653245
yes be creative when they can see you on the other side of the loop, as i said the loops you can mind game aren't as frequent as they should be.
Well let's see here. All jungle gyms can be mindgamed or the pallet can be forced to be dropped quickly. You can also force survivors to drop stray pallets around the junk. Some window loops on specific buildings are way too long and they cannot be mindgamed. What pallet loops cannot be mindgamed in your opinion then? @TKTK
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@TKTK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/653234#Comment_653234
i think you over state how many loops can be mind gamed waist high loops you have to loop unless you are huntress, nurse, or spirit, jungle gyms and the pallets like on the game,good survivors aren't getting hit if you get hit at a jungle gym you really shouldn't be and there is nothing the killer can do but loop it and break the pallet and find someone else that isn't at a strong loop so they have a chance there is no interactivity survivors at those loops just react and move according to the way the killer moves.
Try playing against people with 4000-7000 hours. I have. Plenty of times and because of that I can confirm MOST loops can be mindgamed, but they just require you to be more creative and unpredictable.
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@TKTK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/653148#Comment_653148
Do you think m1 killers running loops breaking pallets while survivors can freely look behind them is interactive?
You can actually mindgame most loops (I agree there are a few that are busted though) and make them unsafe for the survivor. Both sides need to pay attention to what the other side did so yes it is interactive
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@MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/633725#Comment_633725
There are perks that counter her power
if your at a loop and you know that she is using her power or think she is, don't stay at the loop, go to another nearby one
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Rin_Yamaoka read her power for that collision
passive phasing is there to help her confused the survivors more then it being used to mindgame, and its called PASSIVE for a reason, your not really suppose to have full control of it
Sooooooo you want her to be weak as wraith? and remember, its only her addons that change that, but you barely see anyone use those addons, and her base speed when she comes out of her power is not insane at all
prayer beads eh it still have a counter to one thing and when being chased? its no different
My main point is that her power is greatly in her hands, not in the survivors hands cough Ghost face and plague cough and its for the survivors to do their best to work around it and counter it
@MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky I explained my problem with passive phasing and outside of looking cool it's really just dumb.
- No skill on either side needed
- For survivors it's just a guessing game, just like everything else included in the spirit's power
Just because it's "supposed to be passive" doesn't justify those things. It does it's job at confusing a survivor, but to me this just seems like really, really bad design.
"if your at a loop and you know that she is using her power or think she is, don't stay at the loop, go to another nearby one" You cannot know she is phasing. It's impossible to tell. You just have to guess.
And please stop putting words in my mouth, I explicitly said "Now I don't want her overly nerfed, but I want the devs to introduce some sort of a way to tell what the spirit is doing, that way surviving is not just rolling the die and hoping that you get lucky, but an actual representation of skill."
PS. Perks are not counterPLAY. They can be counters, but not counterplay.
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I'm just going to copy what I said in a different thread a while back:
My problem with the spirit is the lack of mindgames. You heard me right, there are no mindgames on the survivor side playing against spirit.
- You can't know where she's coming from. Hearing footsteps is near impossible if you're working on a gen or you're running or even just injured.
- If you know she's phasing and you try to trick her by double backing, she'll just run into you because she has collision for whatever reason.
- As I said, no mindgames really. It's just a guessing game. Say she's chasing you and you vault a window and she walks up to it. She could be vaulting it, phasing or standing still and there is no way to know which she is doing. Also, she can hear your sounds way too easily and can just phase right on you, so you basically need to use a window or a pallet every time, but because the spirit knows this she will go for those specific things. Going for a pallet is a 50/50 and you can rarely make it to a window. (and she might even cut you off)
- Passive phasing. Even looping turns into a guessing game instead of a mindgame. When you're looping her and her stain suddenly disappears you can't know if she just turned around to double back, or if she just got passive phasing. This is even more dumb because of the fact that she doesn't know when she is passively phasing so she can't use it to her advantage purposefully
- With everything mentioned above, her speed after phasing is pretty insane especially with addons. This makes it so that even if you managed to make her think you went somewhere else she will almost always catch up to you regardless.
- Prayer beads.
Those are my main problems with the spirit. Now I don't want her overly nerfed, but I want the devs to introduce some sort of a way to tell what the spirit is doing, that way surviving is not just rolling the die and hoping that you get lucky, but an actual representation of skill.
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From my experience the timer will start from the moment you press m1, meaning that if the survivor is in front of you when you click but isn't when you actually hit with your weapon it will also count.
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@Kenshin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/620179#Comment_620179
thats why im asking for an ingame option. i dont want to edit my files since you can be banned for that.
No you can't. It's edited in a CONFIG file, you're supposed to be able to configure it to your needs.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/594237#Comment_594237
No, I'm saying exactly what I said -- since survivors always have the clear advantage as a group in the big picture of a match, killers should routinely have the clear advantage (in their own way, specific to each killer) in individual chase situations, because there must be instances where killers are dominant in no uncertain terms.
Clown is dominant in the here-and-now of chases because he cuts off loops. Hag can basically shut down an entire map quadrant. Spirit happens to be able to catch up to survivors really fast. All three take some savvy in the part of the player.
Meanwhile, the survivors, AS A GROUP, still have an advantage that they can keep pressing by doing gens, which is their main gameplay objective while the killer is busy overpowering the INDIVIDUAL survivor (which killer should have the power to do).
I don't want to put words in anyone's mouths, but it seems like people want individual survivors to be able to get an upper hand on the killer. I think the survivors have to be looked at as a group, in terms of gameplay balance.
Just because you died doesn't mean you failed, it probably means you bought the group more time to escape. This is why you can earn emblems and rank up even though you died.
@Rydog Chase is the most fun part of the game, it should be engaging to both sides and be a test of skill. It should be won by whoever is the better player. And you want chase to be one sided. That would ruin the game from survivor perspective no matter how you look at it. Now, as a team survivors can have an advantage over the killer, but only if the killer fails to apply pressure to them. For spirit, she's got high map pressure and high chase potential. But the main problem is that the chase isn't really engaging to survivor side because of the reasons I listed in my previous comment.
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Enforcing this is literally impossible, and the devs allow this. Their official discord has voice channels for SWF groups.
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@[Deleted User] said:
@Cymer
Yeah but bonus bp dont mean jack when you make the experience for the killer utterly unenjoyable. That is what a couple of friends are able to do.
@Kikki
In theory correct but nothing does prevent you from intentionally down ranking until you can make new players uninstall the game.
You really seem to want to bring nurse discussions everywhere for no reason whatsoever. Anyway, I'll use your logic: "BP for playing against a nurse doesn't mean jack when the whole experience is utterly unenjoyable. That is what a single killer can do"
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@Rydog said:
I think she just needs 115% move speed on top of her current kit. There need to be killers who just roundly shut down chases and loops, full stop, and force players into altruistic and objective-centric behavior in order to succeed, and not endless loops.
Survivors have a lot of power in the big-picture, us-as-a-group sense, because the clock is always ticking on the killer. Killers who have a lot of advantage in individual, one-on-one chase circumstances need to be the ones that the rest of the game is balanced around.
People get extremely hyper-focused on the balance as it pertains to individual survivor outcomes and escapes, where everything should realistically hinge on the survivors as a group. One or two people might die, but if it enables the others to escape, it's still a success, and those dead people probably wound up pipping, too.
So you want to remove chases from this game and make it a gen rushing sim?
If you can reliably put a full stop to any loops, the skill of the killer and survivor becomes irrelevant, kinda like with the old legion.
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My problem with the spirit is the lack of mindgames. You heard me right, there are no mindgames on the survivor side playing against spirit.
- You can't know where she's coming from. Hearing footsteps is near impossible if you're working on a gen or you're running or even just injured.
- If you know she's phasing and you try to trick her by double backing, she'll just run into you because she has collision for whatever reason.
- As I said, no mindgames really. It's just a guessing game. Say she's chasing you and you vault a window and she walks up to it. She could be vaulting it, phasing or standing still and there is no way to know which she is doing. Also, she can hear your sounds way too easily and can just phase right on you, so you basically need to use a window or a pallet every time, but because the spirit knows this she will go for those specific things. Going for a pallet is a 50/50 and you can rarely make it to a window. (and she might even cut you off)
- Passive phasing. Even looping turns into a guessing game instead of a mindgame. When you're looping her and her stain suddenly disappears you can't know if she just turned around to double back, or if she just got passive phasing. This is even more dumb because of the fact that she doesn't know when she is passively phasing so she can't use it to her advantage purposefully
- With everything mentioned above, her speed after phasing is pretty insane especially with addons. This makes it so that even if you managed to make her think you went somewhere else she will almost always catch up to you regardless.
- Prayer beads.
Those are my main problems with the spirit. Now I don't want her overly nerfed, but I want the devs to introduce some sort of a way to tell what the spirit is doing, that way surviving is not just rolling the die and hoping that you get lucky, but an actual representation of skill.
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@George_Soros said:
Yay. Why do so many people refuse to learn how to play against Nurse?
If she gets nerfed, I'll definitely give up on this game. Don't care much about her addons, but basekit, maybe one extra blink and the brown range addons are perfectly balanced. She's the killer this game needs, since SWF was introduced.
Your attitude with people "refusing" to learn to play against a certain killer is not only ignorant but also plain bs. Even after almost three years no one has "learned" to counter her because there is no such counter. It's the same as someone telling you to just learn to counter old infinites (with no window block or bloodlust).
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@DrDeepwound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592295#Comment_592295
thats how most games work, including Super Mario bros.
We're talking about a 'competitive' multiplayer game here, not Super Mario. And no, most multiplayer games don't allow for one character to absolutely dominate over all others, since there's this thing called balance.
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@JoannaVO said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592295#Comment_592295
No. There are many, many more good survivors then there are good nurses and they dominate pretty much all the other killers. Just because you want something to not be a challenge doesn't mean it's OP.
But if a nurse is able to destroy every single team as I said, then it is not a challenge anymore, since you know you wont be able to win no matter what you do. What about if the nurse is facing master survivors? Should she still always win? If so, what is even the point of playing against her if she's impossible to beat?
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@JoannaVO said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591391#Comment_591391
It's just a case of hard to master but pays off if you dedicate. Seems completely fair to me that they 4k every game then
That is maybe the worst balance philosophy I've ever seen. Just because you spend some time practicing nurse doesn't mean you should be able to dominate every single team you come across.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/576464#Comment_576464
Peanits even said not to take the stats fully to heart. By your logic Trapper is absurdly powerful due to his 60% kill rate at R1.
Well, I've experienced the power of nurse first hand on high ranks on both sides so I do know for a fact that she is too powerful. Don't even get me started on the bugged add ons.
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I love how many ignorant people are here saying that "hur dur just adapt lmao git gud" "they never learned to play against her because they dcd, hur dur" For one, I never dc against anyone, I've got 1,5k hours so I have had tons of games to practice, but she is just absurdly powerful. Secondly, if you think a kill rate of 77% is fine for a killer at the highest ranks and that dozens of players with thousands of hours out of laziness "never bothered" to try to adapt or change tactics against her you are just incredibly ignorant.