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ratcoffee
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3577339#Comment_3577339
I've missed anything happening to Window of Opportunity (Powerful but not OP IMHO).
As for "Prove Thyself", I remember it was only slightly nerfed recently, probably because gens are flying fast nowadays. Are there people wanting to reduce it further?
I'm kind of curious - what do you think I meant when I said "old prove" (emphasis added)
I firmly hold that simply removing the BP bonus of Prove would have reduced the pick rate of the perk. a perk that on average increased gen times by a second per gen when compared to splitting gens - and that's not even counting the time required to run to a new gen - while also opening up the additional risk of a killer disrupting two people at once, or being countered by a killer using Discordance, was in no way the cause of gens seeming to go fast. Prove was useful only in the scenario where there's one gen left to eke out a tiny bit more efficiency in closing the game out
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3576405#Comment_3576405
Is "remotely useful" your way to say "overpowered" ? 😅
no, by "remotely useful" I mean "any range of perks including OP ones like MFT, but also useful and balanced ones like Windows, and marginally useful ones like old Prove"
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It is powerful, but IMO in the same way BT was powerful prior to it being base kit. It lets you know which pallets in your vicinity are still up, something SWF comms can tell you but current survivor basekit cannot. IMO windows cannot be nerfed without significant buffs to survivor basekit or nerfs to killer (probably the former in the form of a weaker windows basekit)
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I played one (1) game of DBD on my laptop, and after missing 7 skill checks on the same gen due to a mix of input lag and 20 FPS, I resolved to never play on my laptop again.
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There's a rework planned for early next year, from what I heard. Hoping it ushers in some more Twins players
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3576541#Comment_3576541
So... it would be putting itself in the same league as any other PvP game out there? Preposterous!...
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3576596#Comment_3576596
All of those things already happen in the game, including most of the people using the stronger build available for them to win. You know why? Because you can't prevent people to play competitively in a PvP game, no matter the nature of it. The perfect example of this is Super Smash Brothers, a game that started strictly as a party game, but at the end they added a ranked mode as most of the people that played it in a daily basis were the ones doing 1v1 with no items instead of the default 4 player party mode. Hell, competitive Tetris is a thing, for the Entity's sake.
In fact, DbD already is a ranked game and only have a ranked game list (when most games have two, a ranked and unranked one) and most people already play it to win. The only difference with other PvP games is that our rank is hidden to us for some unknown reason.
there are plenty of PVP games that also don't have those features
a lot of the charm of DBD for a lot of people is that it tries to reject being one of the stat-tracking, ladder-climb-encouraging sweatfest games. DBD is not apex legends, it's not starcraft, it's not dota 2
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575890#Comment_3575890
Players being competitive in a PvP game? The horror!!! That has never happened before in any other game!...
May I encourage you to try any other number of Fighting Games, FPS, RTS, MOBAs, MMOs, or any other type of game that has a ranked ladder and actually presents... any reward at all... for being good at it.
DBD is good because you *can* sweat, but it doesn't market itself as an e-sport. Putting stats like win/kill rate would feel like DBD is trying to put itself in the same league as, like, Apex Legends.
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@Mooks said:
No you can’t get a refund.
also. You can play him right now, and the update is not even out for PTB, let alone live - that’s presumably 4 weeks from now. You can play him and this perk and the changes might even not be final. There is also people that argue the change makes the perk stronger.
The people arguing the changes make it stronger are killer-exclusive players who either:
1) are really bad at guaging survivor perk power level, or
2) want any remotely useful survivor perk nerfed; failing to realize that if survivor perks are universally useless killer must by necessity receive massive basekit nerfs to compensate
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You take back the horrible things you said about my darling Dwight this instant!
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@Shroompy said:
Only issue I have with it is the Endurance it gives
If they want to keep it, make it so if you heal a Survivor while injured, you become Exhausted for X seconds
Now it doesnt synergize as well with Exhaustion perks, and disables it self upon activation.
Honestly that sounds like the worst possible change they could make to the perk. "Yeah, let's take the perk that rewards you for doing a high risk altruistic action (gives you an extra health state if you heal someone while injured and the killer is nearby) and instead punish you for doing that action."
that would simply cause people to heal each other even less. what they ended up going with was good, but another alternative would be to only allow activating the haste after healing another survivor for 1 health state, thus further encouraging alturism
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575136#Comment_3575136
Stop with the us vs them mentality, its toxic, unproductive, and doesn't make the game better.
ironically, we are also pointing out how the us vs them mentality is incorrect. we are on the same side here
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575105#Comment_3575105
This isn't an us vs them mentality. We shouldn't "buff survivors" to compensate for them nerfing a map that is CLEARLY survivor sided. Stop thinking like this, its toxic, and isn't conducive to making the game actually better.
I'm making a sarcastic joke
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575056#Comment_3575056
While this is true, they could have thrown Survivors a Bone in this Patch.
Survivors in this Patch only get Nerfs while Killers only get Buffs (including the Map Changes). AND this is a Killer-only Chapter, so there is not even anything new for Survivors in this Chapter.
I am the last person who would say that both sides should receive Buffs and Nerfs equally, but there is really nothing in this Patch for Survivors aside from Nerfs.
It's because BHVR are extremely survivor sided, that's why the devs gave survivors a nerf to one of the most used survivor perks and several of the most survivor sided maps without any compensation 😭
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killers have aura reading on gens
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Since the oblivious effect is caused by the totem, I think what happens is
-the oblivious effect is paused for however long the doctor's shock effect lasts
-when the effect of the shock attack wears off (when survivor stops screaming) the oblivious effect from Plaything comes back.
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@Chaogod said:
A-are you serious? Are we playing the same game? The game has so much safety nets for survivor that it's insane. Gens go extremely fast and the game constantly forgives you for making mistakes. On top of an event that has WAY better benefits for you. Meanwhile killer is constantly punished for playing well and continues to get more and more restrictions.
"Killer is constantly punished for playing well" what?
Everything else in your post I could get on board with, but this I cannot even begin to decipher. Literally the only thing I think you could possibly mean is like "oh no poor me, I only got 2 coup stacks this game because the survivors only had enough time to get one gen done before I sacrificed them all," and I know that can't actually be what you mean. Please clarify
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3572488#Comment_3572488
That's the biggest lie I had seen in this forum since ever, and you only have to check the Feedback forums to see it is a lie.
The only times I had seen killers complain more than survivors are when a perk starts to be a problem (e.g. DH and MfT). I had yet to see as many "killers need an anti-mistake system", "survivors are OP", "doing X is toxic, survivors should not be able to do this" or "nerf this perk that is a direct counter to those I use" posts from killers complaining that I have seen the reverse from survivors. Not even close.
Also, we have survivors literally saying that a killer is there for their sole amusement and those that don't play how they want are "boring". So, who are the ones that think killers are there performing a service again?
And as a reminder, killers are not the ones review bombing the game everytime BHVR does a balance change that they don't like, like what happened with the last healing nerf or how they made BHVR nerf Freddy on release when it was the killer with the most easy and stronger counter this game had until Singularity.
Most of the survivor complaints are one-and-done folks though. If I see a survivor complaint it's likely from someone whose username I've never seen before and will never see again. There are a handful of killer players on this forum I would jokingly describe as "having a full time job at the survivor hating factory". As far as I can tell, *that* is what edgar was talking about. Everyone has their complaints, but a certain subset of killer players are the most individually vocal.
I personally would potentially disagree with his use of the word "hardcore" as it kind of implies they're stronger players, and the biggest complainers are on the weaker end of the skill scale, but I do agree that there is a phenomenon of a tiny slice of killer players being the biggest individual source of complaining
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With friends like these who needs enemies, am I right?
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3572383#Comment_3572383
I mean, I don't know anyone who doesn't wanna win? The difference I see in the degree and the way they want to win. Some want the best possible chance so they play Blight/Nurse, others just want to win with other killers. It feels really silly to say that and similarly when killers say it to solo survivors when we bring up valid points about the game's design.
The reason I say "desperately" was to distinguish between people who want to win every game no matter what, and people who would prefer to win but are OK not winning so long if they get something else out of the game, like a fun chase or getting better at macro
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568592#Comment_3568592
Keep in mind their matches have special rules that are not realistic in normal matches so that the killer actually stands a chance. Rules such as no duplicate perks allowed for survivors, only one deliverance perk allowed across all 4 survivors, banning certain maps, etc...
I think you're confusing this with something else? This was an experiment where a bunch of people played killer pub games without tunneling, camping or using killer powers. Because it was pub matches against randoms, using the built in MMR, there were no survivor restrictions (not like you can force survivors to play by specific rules), just killer restrictions.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3572195#Comment_3572195
If the point you're trying to make is "average killers are just bad and need to crutch camping/tunneling" then it's not much of a point because people are already telling you that yes, you can win by not tunneling/camping/slugging/3-genning but you'd have to be a lot better than your opponent to get away with that.
Realistically you can't ask for killers to be better/more skillful cause the average is always the majority. Same goes for survivor. People keep saying "omg survivors are so bad no wonder they're losing", while ignoring that the average (solo) survivor lacks a lot of the tools to deal with a lot of those strategies and blaming it on their skill instead of the game's design.
It's also kind of inevitable, the longer people play a game, the better they'll get and they'll optimize it more. You cannot recreate the playerbase as it was 3-4 years ago. The meta was different, the perks were stronger/weaker, items were stronger/weaker etc. And if you were to bring all that back, you would still not be able to force people to play in the way you want cause attitudes have changed.
Just two days ago I had a Mirror Scratched Myers on RPD who was camping just outside the range of the anti-camping mechanic. He was not proxy-camping he was primarily camping. He was staying at a distance waiting for someone to go for the save to get free hits in or hook trades and rarely tried to apply pressure elsewhere when someone was on the hook. As you can see the game's design simply did nothing for cases such as these because this build on Myers also allows the killer to know when someone is coming for the rescue, you cannot sneak in. Now I was the last one alive and we had a little last chase, idk if he was trying less or just not good at it, but he did not catch me until the entity killed me which would explain why he would rather play in that way than have to chase survivors when he's not particularly good. If he was confident in his chasing skills he might not have to resort to such playstyle, but it's also to be expected. Like average survivors aren't good at every single skill survivors need, killers are the same they cannot be good at everything on average. Don't tell me survivors who just pump out gens are doing anything skillful and a team could bring toolboxes and play stealthy, or have just one person get chased and pump out gens.
It's a problem with the game's design that doesn't incentivize interaction or reward it. It's just you see camping and tunneling more, but I see 3-genning a lot which is even worse cause you have long as hell games (yesterday I played against Knight for 30+ mins, two separate games ) and apparently the way to counter that strategy is again coordination but when you're solo good luck with that and telling people we have to start from this gen, or double up this gen and no one even talks about it anymore cause eruption has gotten nerfed, but if you bring 3-gen control perks you can still have such long games.
I think it's very relevant to note that the statement "tunneling and proxycamping is a must" comes with the caveat "if you desperately want to win but are not very good at the game"
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@lifestylee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3571465#Comment_3571465
Hens is alot better then the average killer and the survivors he's versing in general Arent close to his lvl.
The average killers are also getting the same survivors hens is getting or close to their skill lvl.
Hens can beat them playing like that cause hes alot better but if the skill lvl is close(ish) you generally wont be able to do that. Maybe its not impossible but more so in a more consistent matter to try and win.
@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568592#Comment_3568592
To be honest Hens is a pretty good player. I think we'd have to see an average killer to reach a conclusion.
lot of people here are so close to the point it's actually sitting in their lap
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3571465#Comment_3571465
Yeah but the difference is you dont have to be necessarily good at the game as survivor when they just increase more and more pallets/strong main buildings or windows to waste a lot of time for the killer. Simply because spreading on gens is a thing a LOT of the killer roster can't compete with to the point where even mediocre survivors could reliably 2-3 out if they focused on escaping.
but they don't, is the thing. it doesn't matter what survivors are theoretically capable of, assuming they try; if practical experience shows they usually aren't putting in that kind of effort
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568592#Comment_3568592
Didnt he say himself that the survs he went against werent the greatest?
yeah; that shouldn't matter though and in fact makes my point even moreso - if one of the top rated players in the world regularly goes against mediocre survivors that means an average killer should also go against mediocre survivors; the average survivor team you go against won't be that great
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3571144#Comment_3571144
I didnt ask but ok....
I have no problem with resilience by itself. I have a problem with surivors completely skipping over a part of the game because the killer isnt threatening enough.
Hitting someone more often or not, does more harm then it helps. Nurse and Blight might not care that much. But a Freddy, Pig, Doctor, Legion etc. care a lot.
Id rather go back to more second chances. At least the games where more interactive.
You asked if I run Thana. I had earlier explained that Thana can counteract Resilience if you are worried about resilience. I'd hoped you would connect the dots and realize I was answering your question about running thana (no I don't run it) while also providing additional context (I do not feel the need to counter the thing I think thana counters)
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3570729#Comment_3570729
Do you use thanatophobia?
I don't care about going against resilience
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@[Deleted User] said:
This doesn't fix the issue with Thana. It still sucks and would only be usable on two of thirty-three Killers.
what is "the issue with thana"
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569870#Comment_3569870
Injuring many players is a really bad idea right now against the better survivors.
Resilience will shred your gens.
You beat buckle up +ftp but you lost a lot of time regardless.
Lose lose situation.
You can run thana. It's been overnerfed and they should tweak it a bit to make it stronget, but at worst it reduces the effectiveness of resil and at best it more than compensates for it
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there are so many different types of survivors out there and no matter how you play there will be some who whine about something you did
the best thing you can do is avoid doing things that you think would be reasonable to be upset about (i.e. 4 man slugging for bleed outs, etc) and ignore anyone that's unreasonable.
It's hard to do, but my life improved so much when I fully came to peace with ignoring people who are being unreasonable
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What if there was a queue time penalty that increased every time you lobby dodge, similar to the DC penalty? That way you can dodge one game if you think someone is about to be a real troublemaker, but you can't consistently dodge several lobbies to get the most baby-looking survivors to kill (or the most cracked looking teammates as survivor)
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it is too strong, I agree
the counterplay is to be aware of other survivors hiding nearby, and to injure multiple people before getting a down, maybe playing a bit more hit-and-run. it's not perfect counterplay but until BHVR tweak that interaction it's the best you've got
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Killers who rely primarily on their basic attack mechanics to get downs.
For example, Wraith is an m1 killer because although he has map mobility through his bonus move speed om cloak, and an extended lunge by using his uncloak, he still needs to commit to being uncloaked in order to chase and hit people.
Nurse, however, uses blink attacks to bypass obstacles; she uses her power to get hits, so she is not an M1 killer.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568619#Comment_3568619
If you bringing up a very expirienced player twit, I can simply bring up Tournaments. xD
In which I think you know how everyone play and what normal gameplay is.
Ok, so could you explain how tournaments existing proves that the pub game experiments Hens wrote about never happened?
because if the pub game experiment happened, that means it's possible to win without tunneling. therefore, to prove that you were right about tunneling being "a must" those games must have never happened. since you think the existence of comp games is proof that tunneling is necessary, those comp games must by necessity prove the Hens experiment did not happen. Otherwise, it's just an example of tunneling happening despite it not being strictly necessary
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The reason Windows is so good IMO is because it lets you know which pallets your teammates have used
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568592#Comment_3568592
"Me and many other top tier players"
Other than proving that people with ten thousand or so hours are incredibly good, that experiment has little to no relevance to 99.99% of players. That's less a rebuttal and more, "People who play the game professionally can do it, why can't you?"
the OP said that tunneling and proxycamping "are a must" in order to win. I provided a sample of games that proves the operative word "must" to be incorrect
the point is that winning without those strategies is possible. if it were not, those results would not exist. the point is not to say "why can't you" because we all know why they can't - some killer players are simply not good enough to win without those strategies (and that's fine! you don't need to dedicate that much time to a goofy asymmetrical horror game. i simply choose to not care about winning, and other people can choose to care about winning but use easymode tactics like tunneling instead of grinding the hard skills). that doesn't mean, however, it's impossible to win without those strats
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@Gargo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568230#Comment_3568230
and? usually chains are broken like 1dd2dd3 (d - delay) but this cheater broke them like 123. Which obstacles on the map help to do that?
If a chain touches anything that has a hitbox (walls, rocks, trees, generators, etc) the chain breaks without a delay
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The reward for killing someone on hook is that they're dead
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567264#Comment_3567264
But the survivor always gets the advantage though.
Killer is advantaged in terms of getting hits, which is what matters for balance. Think of it this way: when a survivor appears to teleport 2 meters away after getting downed, what that survivor saw was a killer swinging their weapon, missing by 2 meters, and then they went down anyway.
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Lethal Persuer is good for starting a chase early, but on pinhead in particular you can use it to figure out where the box is, to pick it up and start an early chain hunt. The box spawns far away from the survivors, so look in places where the survivors are not. You may want to do a few custom bot games to try to get the hang of where the box spawns relative to survivors using lethal.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
Did he have MFT maybe?
that is so clearly more than just MFT, come on. that's mft+hope level of speed up
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you get BP and emblem points when you sacrifice the bots and they even miss skill checks, dying faster a lot of the time
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you should be able to attack out of the rush that Blight Serum gives you
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i got like a dozen of them with about 2 million BP.
certainly feels like an oversight that the add-ons you can use year round are less common than the dousing rods, which you can only use for the event. i've been actively avoiding the rods (still have a massive stockpile from last year) and i've still gotten twice as many rods as I do bulbs (started buying them on Dwight, who had nothing from previous halloween left over)
At least I have a reasonable number of all the other permanent items (40 medkits and flashlights, 50 refined serum)
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@PAntWill said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566140#Comment_3566140
You can’t do the tome challenges without gaining energy which is gained by the main objective. I don’t care about escaping or 4k. The issue is the sweat that is happening which is incentivised by the devs choosing the main objective being the only way. Matches are over pretty quickly. Also today I’ve had countless killers using the portals to camp. It’s just sweaty man which negates all fun.
you also get energy by kicking pumpkins or running around the map collecting orbs
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how about:
1.5/2/2.5% per stack
2 stacks the first time you hook a survivor
1 stack each subsequent time you hook the same survivor
Obsession not affected
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565110#Comment_3565110
My posts get mass approval? I must be missing something.
this is about as many upvotes as i've ever seen on a thread; there were ~10 posts in a row agreeing with you (that survivors by and large want easy games and killers are so disrespected) before a single dissenter showed up
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565073#Comment_3565073
I have made 3 threads over the past week, that is cluttered I suppose. Maybe you can’t take your eyes from Wesker. I can change my avatar if you like.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565091#Comment_3565091
Sounds like you are suggesting those who speak against the overall forum narrative are now people in distress and need mental health assistance. Pretty low tactic.
You're nearly always met with mass approval on your posts, this one example notwithstanding. I was all but crucified for stating the objective truth that the game is slightly, statistically killer favored. Other threads asserting it is survivor favored have been received to similar approval to your other posts bemoaning the state of killer.
The anti-survivor, pro-killer tack you take in your forum posts is far from a dissenting opinion, it is by and large the dominant perspective. There are plenty of people here to assert the same perspective as you, and I'm fine with them doing that. It is specifically the self-pitying nature and sheer oversaturation of your posts that make me think you're harming yourself in the long run with your posting habits
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sometimes the opponent is just in your head, sometimes it's the other way around. i've had games like you've described and followed them up with games where i won every single mindgame, went to all the right gens with my Pop, and got a 12 hook victory with 4 gens left. i've had games where i got mindgamed and went down in 30 seconds, and then the next game I loop a killer for 4 gens on 2 tiles. it's not a lack of skill, just an unfortunate artifact of psychology
doesn't make it feel any less terrible when it happens, though :(
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563492#Comment_3563492
"Even if I face a wall while picking someone up, a teammate somehow blinds me from behind and I drop."
At least attempt to read the post if you're going to comment, lol.
oh then they're hacking and you report them
its also possible you didn't face the wall as well as you think you did but we'll assume that's not the case
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562609#Comment_3562609
The system got adjusted from the ptb and the devs agreed with the complaints about issues where survivors could get the unhook when the killer wasn't facecamping.
true, but also that doesn't contradict what i said