ratcoffee
ratcoffee
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607336#Comment_3607336
Reminds me of the Chess Merchant situation: I'll play her so I can get a bunch of 'fun' wins. Complete disregard for the other side.
A - "if you dare to use this perk combo on me I'll tunnel you out of the game because I think you'd dislike that"
B - "actually i'd quite enjoy it maybe I should do it so you do the thing I'd enjoy"
A - "noo how dare you do something I dislike"
really makes you 🤔
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/399886/buckle-up-for-the-tunnel
Indeed. If someone picks a downed survivor up with Buckle Up + For the People, my general MO is to drop everything else I am doing and throwing the game in order to down and hook that combo user. I then usually face camp them and slap them on the hook till they unhook themselves, then slap them out of BT and tunnel them as hard as I am physically able. That perk combo is so busted and sucks the fun out of my games, so I just take it as a given that the fun part of this trial is over, once the combo is used.
Note to self: start using Buckle Up FTP to guarantee I get a bunch of fun chases in
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606475#Comment_3606475
Then it should appear after a fail skillcheck. Any other Hex won't appear unless the effect is triggered.
Ruin - after getting of an unfinished gen.
Undying - being near a totem
ToTH - cleansing a totem
Haunted - breaking the totem
it used to only show after the first stack became active (which you would generally notice anyway if you had more than a handful of hours on survivor) they should at the very least revert it to that
idk why they even changed it to begin with
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Only if it notifies the survivors when it's active IMO, same way rancor does
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I would love to see how the removal of flashlights affects kill rates
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606539#Comment_3606539
that only good if 1 survivor already dead.
Knowing there are multiple survivors not working on gens is always good actually
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yeah probably, sound quality isn't gonna be as good as on ear or over ear headphones
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606958#Comment_3606958
No, you just can't form a coherent argument to justify it. Sure it doesn't take 16 seconds. Doesn't take a whole minute though. So, let's discuss now that we've got that out of the way.
Ok. I think the combo is somewhat overpowered. However, there are things you can do to counter it (such as injuring the person who is chasing you around and leaving them temporarily with teo dead perks) contrary what you have said earlier in this thread.
It's not that I don't have a coherent response to what you have to say, it's that you're deliberately lying about the impact your counterplay has.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606539#Comment_3606539
16 seconds does not equate to how long the extended chase will now last. Simply holding W will give you that much time.
i mean i do agree that the combo is too powerful as it is, but on the other hand I don't feel like discussing things with someone who thinks that following a chase, getting hit, running off to a corner and either self healing or getting healed by a third survivor wastes only 16 seconds of survivor time, so have a nice day
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606415#Comment_3606415
Yeah hit the survivor and let them both go to a safe loop whilst I gained practically nothing as one will heal and get right back over to the chase. 👍
You gained the time the survivors weren't working on gens, and the time the survivors will continue to not work on gens
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A lot of perks are bad because of fundamental design reasons, and in order to buff them the devs would need to:
-Come up with a fundamental rework to how the perk works
-Code the new mechanics for the perk
-Play test it to make sure it works as intended
-Make adjustments based on their observations
-Release a PTB
-Make further adjustments and bugfixes based on feedback
Some perks could be improved by simple number tweaks, sure, but a lot would require a whole bunch of extra work to fix.
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You need to be healthy to use FTP, all you need to do is see and hit the survivor that's following your chase around
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New killers are either going against new survivors, who they won't need regression against, or they'll get mismatched against experienced survivors, who they won't be able to beat even with the strongest regression.
I think people forget just how unnecessary regression is at lower levels of the game before survivors learn to look behind them and run around structures instead of into and then past them into dead zones
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It's fairly decent, if a little hard to play around; the point is to be constantly pressuring multiple survivors (obsession + someone else) to keep your stacks up so you should be pressuring multiple people at once and keeping them off gens.
That's definitely doable but often is highly map dependent so it's not as universally powerful as, say, STBFL or EndFury. Still a bit underrated.
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Never understood what "tunneling gens" means. Do you mean doing gens? You can just say that
Sometimes I see people argue that completing a gen before starting a new one is "tunneling" gens, and that's silly. A gen can regress from 99% to 0% but survivors can't kick each other to go back to fresh hook. If generators had "safe states" where it couldn't regress past a certain point (like they used to) then that might make sense (because the survivors objectives would be comparable to killers in that regard)
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Very volatile. I feel like 90% of the time it's basically unwinnable for killer unless survivors throw (which, to be fair, they love to do) and the other 10% of the time a powerful 3 gen spawns center map and it's basically unlosable. I'd think about making it smaller and working on the gen spawn logic so gens spawn more consistently in the outer tile areas (which would be closer and fairer to patrol)
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603703#Comment_3603703
Watch a comp match sometime.
What is blud waffling about?
No seriously, what do you mean by this, the point you're trying to make is extremely unclear and I'd love a clarification
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601385#Comment_3601385
Wouldn’t want your antagonism of another person to be hampered. Always appreciate when people say the quiet part out loud.
Just wanted to give you an update on this, I had a game where two people disconnected after going down first time in completely normal chases and I found it to be the funniest thing ever.
I don't find humor in antagonizing people, I find humor in people choosing to put themselves through a penalty because of normal gameplay. People overreacting to, overinterpreting or otherwise being unreasonable about completely normal stuff is what's funny, and that goes for both survivor and killer players
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603014#Comment_3603014
The forum search is awful and most of those are probably threads where they are complaining about the killer tunneling.
for "Gen Rush" the vast majority of posts were all unambiguously complaints from killers about getting "gen rushed". "Survivors tunnel gens" was more of a mixed bag but that's also the one with fewer posts
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3602458#Comment_3602458
Again, we are just pointing out the hypocrisy here. Nobody is suggesting that killers "think gens being done is a problem" we are simply pointing out that killers get yelled at for tunneling, but nobody cares when survivors do it. The double standard is real.
Similarly people complain when killers bring Corrupt/Pop/Painres/BBQ on blight with god-tier addons, but when survivors bring, Adren/Resilience/Sprint Burst/Commodius/BNP/Insta heal/Sending you to garden of joy. That is totally fine though.
I'm simply pointing out double standards here because they tend to get ignored on these forums.
>nobody cares when survivors [do gens fast]
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Honestly I think wiggle time is fine and hook numbers could be increased a little (1-2 more hooks per map on average)
What I would like to see is buffs to survivor counterplay at hooks, for instance a minor buff to Break Out to compensate for more/closer hooks, faster sabotage [edit: not sabo as a base kit perk, I meant "decrease base sabo time"] to compensate for faster base kit killer attacks, and maybe a buff to Sabo where a successful sabotage within x meters of a carried survivor increases wiggle progress by a few percent (thus making a wiggle off more feasible upon a successful sabotage play)
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@JoeyDonuts said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3602141#Comment_3602141
If it worked as I suggested, as it put you in the second locker in a set, and not cross map, it totally would. Cross map and a health would just be op.
IDK it feels a bit wrong to make changes to OP's proposal and then criticize their proposal based on the changes you made.
OP was imo quite clearly proposing this as an anti-tunnel perk and making it only work on lockers within a set would not work
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I would love to see badges that work kind of like Relics in Dota 2 where it keeps track of how many times you do specific things. For example, a Ghost Face badge that you only get after 100 marked downs, that on hover shows exactly how many marked downs you have gotten, and visually upgrades at certain milestones.
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Never mind I'm tired of getting into dumb arguments on here, deleting this post
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It has an effect before you can even hit or start interacting with a survivor. Honestly in theory that's a decent advantage, but in practice the effect is weak enough where it's not worth running. They could definitely hit it with a strong buff
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601604#Comment_3601604
My point still stands that you will only be facing chucky with this perk...which is like 1/33 killers. if new player loses to whatever x perk, the player has to learn from their errors, not get hand-holded. this is natural expectation when learning any new game. As new player, your expect to make dozen of countless errors and your opponent will likely make countless of dozen of errors as well. it is part of learning experience.
Yeah no man, when you're this willful about missing my point that new players often aren't going against new players (using a personal anecdote of exactly that happening) and when you argue that "not wanting to be forced to play blindfolded after getting hit as a player who is new to this game" is getting handheld, when you expect survivor players to be able to have a complex 3d map of their exact surroundings and navigate them blindfolded with millimeter accuracy, I think we are playing fundamentally different games and there's no point continuing this discussion. Hope you have a nice day, and I hope your survivors are as cracked as you expect them to be
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601512#Comment_3601512
most new killer that are 10-20 hours also do not have all perks unlocked. this means that if they face Legion for example, Legion is likely to have perks like Discordance, NOED, Sloppy butcher and Spies from the shadow. New player only face this perk if they face Chucky player and chances are, the Chucky player might not equip the perk in it is current state because.... it is just useless.
In my first 10 hours of gameplay I was really proud of myself for beating survivors with 500-600 hours on their steam profiles while 12 hooking. It happens.
I'm not sure what you mean by: "New player only face this perk if they face Chucky player and chances are, the Chucky player might not equip the perk in it is current state" We're talking about the hypothetical OP version you came up with, why would you assume the on-basic-attack version would have the same pick rate as the current weak version?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601455#Comment_3601455
I mean if you do not enjoy playing dbd, then... yeah quit the game. no one forcing you to play the game. quitting the game because of a perk sounds ridiculously in my opinion.
Let me get this straight. You think that simply by equipping a perk, killer players should be able to ensure they always win against low level players - not through outskilling the low level players, but through allowing the perk to shred through the weaker player.
absolutely. The killer is outskilling you by using perk that you are terrible at playing vs. At some point, there has to be accountability for a skill-issue.
I also don't understand why killer players need to be handheld and given perks that give them free wins against newer survivor players, instead of actually beating the survivor players through their own skill expression.
good killer won't vs newer survivors. It is new killers that will play against newer survivors. Newer killer are likely making gameplay errors for newer survivors to win. a newer killer can be defeated just as newer survivor will often die. It is just matters for who is the worse player. Newer survivor will die to regardless to what perk are used because they are poor at the fundamental basics of the game.
Equipping perks is basic mechanic in the game. it is part of skill expression of successfully playing dbd. I do not understand why your post implies an exclusion to skill expression and utilizing perk.
Dang you're right, people who have played for only 10-20 hours are absolute cowards for choosing to stop playing a game that has mechanics that make the game unenjoyable to them. they should be forced to keep playing the game they don't find fun until they know how to counter it. That makes sense, because, uh...
It's quite telling you assume I'm talking about myself and that I couldn't possibly be caring about the experience of other players. Absolutely tracks with someone who meets any criticism of a perk idea with accusations of hand-holding
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601385#Comment_3601385
Wouldn’t want your antagonism of another person to be hampered. Always appreciate when people say the quiet part out loud.
Hey man, I also think it's really funny when a survivor activates my hubris, runs into a dead zone, gets insta downed, and disconnects
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creo que ahorita no se funciona
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600806#Comment_3600806
a strong perk is suppose to instantly vaporize bad players. they're not playing the game properly. perk balance should not be balanced around lowest level. lower-mid-level player should adapt/learn to play against the perk or accepting losing to the perk due to poor play. I don't understand why every killer perk needs this massive amount of hand-holding. with that type of attitude, every single killer perk has to be bad with excuse of "too oppressive for new players".
When I said "vaporize" i meant "cause them to quit playing the game for good." Being denied the ability to run away after getting hit, which is what the perk you proposed would do to new players, would be so frustrating that most would say "it's not even worth trying to learn the counterplay to that"
However, I'll humor you and address the argument that you seem to be making, that a good perk should cause low level players to lose incredibly fast.
Let me get this straight. You think that simply by equipping a perk, killer players should be able to ensure they always win against low level players - not through outskilling the low level players, but through allowing the perk to shred through the weaker player.
You're right! I also don't understand why killer players need to be handheld and given perks that give them free wins against newer survivor players, instead of actually beating the survivor players through their own skill expression.
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I hope they never give killer DC bots, few things beat the comedy of the fade-to-black when a killer taps out early
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I'm starting to use...
DBD forums
Can't wait till they nerf it to killer only because they complain too much
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@Haddix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600806#Comment_3600806
this argument can be applied to so many perks in this game man. that's not an excuse to make a weak (frankly useless) perk stronger.
a decent buff is not gonna make this perk meta, it will make it more viable for creative builds and that's what we wanna see in this game. i am very very certain that newer/inexperienced players have far more of an issue against 4 gen regression perks or powerful chase perks that are constantly run.
I'm not arguing against a buff to Two can Play, I think increasing the duration to 3 or 4 seconds or 1.5 × the duration of a stun or blind would be great even, I'm arguing specifically against having a version of Two Can Play that activates on a successful normal attack.
Honestly the reason why that version of a perk is problematic, the power it has to get a 2-tap against new players and people who are unprepared (solo queue players) is so obvious to me that asking for that, to me, feels directly equivalent to asking for free double taps.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600771#Comment_3600771
i think 80% is exaggeration. it is not that hard to run forward in straight line. the perk is hex perk and it can be disabled with time sink. the current iteration of the perk is nearly worthless.
You assume people are always going to be facing 20 straight meters of open space and won't run into stuff, particularly new players who aren't used to that kind of mechanic. Maybe 80% is an exaggeration, but if you think such a perk wouldn't just instantly vaporize (figuratively) a large percent of the casual playerbase, you clearly haven't played any solo survivor recently.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600579#Comment_3600579
my point is that beginner player should not bog perk balance down. They'll lose to any perk because they are not playing properly. perk balance in particular should always be balanced around highest level of play. for reference, 4 second blind is very long. that is equal to a survivor blinding you, then chain-blinding you with a flashlight. It will catch even experienced survivors off-guard.
You're asking for a perk that removes survivor ability to see anything at all, for longer than hit cooldown, upon hitting them, for the cost of not respecting 2 pallets. You do realize that's effectively an ask to be given free 2-taps on about 80% of survivor players, right?
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>looking at a new forum feedback thread
>ask the op if it's Us vs Them or Misunderstanding What Cheating Means
>he doesn't understand
>I pull out illustrated diagram explaining what is Us vs Them and what is Misunderstanding
>he laughs and says "it's a good thread sir"
>read it
>it's Misunderstanding What Cheating Means
(The joke here is that the devs themselves have said that filters are explicitly allowed and not cheating, so the fact this was a "complaint about cheating" despite the devs saying filters are fine is a clear Misunderstanding)
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-Killer has a mechanic that lets them bypass the need to hook a survivor twice before eliminating them: I sleep
-Survivor has counterplay that allows them to deny the instant kill mechanic *if* they manage to get to a specific prop *and* at thr cost of still giving up a hook state: Real talk
Yes, it can be annoying when survivors know the counterplay to instantly dying before first hook, but it's also annoying to be instantly killed before first hook
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599623#Comment_3599623
it is still so bad. I would likely let it trigger on m1 basic attacks and increase the blind from 1.5 to 4 seconds. At least then, maybe survivor would run into walls and stbfl+rapid brutality could be interesting with that hex.
You realize how ridiculously OP this is against beginner players, right? A 4 second blank screen whenever you hit someone is basically "you had better memorize the layout of every prop within 2 tiles radius to millimeter precision and navigate them blindfolded or else you are getting 2-tapped." Good players will absolutely be able to navigate the map for a couple seconds like that (for example I'm fine after flashbanging myself usually), but against anyone with less than like 500 hours in survivor it's basically a "buy one hit and get the second one for free" button.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600319#Comment_3600319
There is a third reason.
Some people use it to actually learn maps.
Its a minority, but they do exist.
To that i have to say: the tutorial should have a "check out the map"- function where new players can learn map layout and main buildings. This job should not be locked behind a non-base game character / perk.
True I forgot that it's also a good learning tool
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There are two main reasons
Some people run it so they can know which pallets are still available and haven't been thrown by their teammates.
Other people run it because they are bad at running the killer and they need a big yellow "run here next" sign.
You can usually tell the difference because the second type will sometimes just beeline to a random z wall and then panic
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599688#Comment_3599688
I think you completely misread my post. Try re-reading it. I'm saying BHVR is adopting the industry standard of MMR adjustments being entirely separated from a win/loss system. You just claimed I said the opposite which shows you didn't bother reading what I said, or you're having trouble understanding it. Let me know if I need to break it into simpler terms. What I DID say is I think BHVR needs to get away from the industry standard in this game because I feel it SHOULD be based on a team vs team win/loss condition (and then we could have a legitimate draw this way!). They should encourage the team to want to win together as opposed to the every man for himself how it is, now. Would csuse for less players to just abandon each other so they can get their own win. However, BHVR doesn't agree, so it is what it is.
Since you're new to gaming, I'll at least explain this. MMR systems typically are not supposed to care about wins or losses. MMR system's solely are designed to try to pit you against similarly skilled players. Wins give you rewards, points, etc. MMR cares about performance. That's why in the industry you have games where you can win but go down in mmr, or lose and go up in mmr. If someone is getting their butt kicked and the other team feels sorry for them and allows them to win, should the mmr system go up so that they get their butts get kicked even harder next match? Of course not. MMR are supposed to be graded on performance. BHVR tries to mimic this for killers based on just kills in the match, but it's certainly flawed. They do however have some semblance of grading the concept with pips. You can literally win but get 0 pips. There's an understanding that wins just give rewards and bp, but performance at some level is what matters. The whole point is that they have the game set up where every single player gets their own win or loss condition, but they have to make MMR adjustments which by design are NOT simply tied to a win or a loss...that's supposed to be measured by performance. BHVR just makes their adjustments for killers of negative neutral or positive based on the amount of kills. It's far from perfect, but even that doesn't have a direct connection to a win or a loss. There is no draws in dbd. They just treat 2 kills as neutral for the purposes of mmr which...again...does not connect to winning or losing. MMR system's are independent from that.
MMR adjustments are not a reward or punishment. They are to try to put evenly matched opponents against each other. That's all.
I am certain that you genuinely believe your long-winded condescension makes you right, but I fail to see how your acknowledgement that a win-draw-loss system is the most intuitive way of understanding killer performance does anything other than reaffirm the original point of the stats I posted, red herrings about how you're totally a games industry insider aside.
Need I remind you that my entire argument has been that looking at 2k as a draw, more as a killer win and less as a killer loss (the criteria you seem to be saying you agree with) demonstrates that the current kill rate of 53% results in more killer wins than losses, and that MMR was only an aesthetic point in that argument? Surely you wouldn't have forgotten something you could so easily scroll up to remember
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I like how you say something to the effect of "Because some survivors MMR goes up and other survivors MMR goes down it can't be a draw, we need to consider how the MMR calculates the result" and then later say, effectively, "We cannot consider how the killer's result affects their MMR because nobody in the video game industry uses the MMR system that is being used by BHVR, a company within the game industry." Never mind how DBD uses the system you say nobody in the industry uses, neever mind how IDV, the closest viable competitor to DBD, very explicitly calls a 2-out a draw for both teams (thus proving you very explicitly wrong about your "in the industry" argument), those contradictions really put on full display the internal inconsistencies in the position you're trying to hold. At this point it's fairly clear you're just holding whatever position advocates increasing killer strength with no regard to what you said one paragraph ago, so I see no point continuing this conversation.
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There are rules against calling out specific people by name in a negative context I think. If you're going to name a person it has to be in the context of positive feedback
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@ratcoffee said:
I would argue that to a certain degree killer experience translates pretty well; mindgaming an unsafe pallet as Clown works similar to mindgaming an unsafe pallet as Trapper, for instance, and zoning a survivor into a dead zone is similar to zoning them into a part of the map that is trapped. I think the bigger problem is:
-Big name content creators have done big long win streaks back when MMR didn't exist or was more lenient, or when the game was more volatile
-Less experienced players see that and feel like they ought to be able to pull off similar win streaks, not recognizing the macro and micro mechanics involved in many of the wins and the number of attempts some of the more ridiculous streaks took (note this applies to both survivor and killer players)
-Because of negativity bias, when these players invariably fail to first-try replicate the streaks that more experienced players would grind months for, they genuinely feel as if the game is rigged against them
-People make change requests based on their incorrect impression of balance
Oh yeah I forgot the point I was making here. I think it's not that killers lacking experience is what leads to killer buffs, I think killers have plenty experience. I think it's players in general having unrealistic expectations of their own performance and then blaming the game for not letting them reach those expectations that leads players of all sides to request silly balance changes. Killer experience translates decently so I don't think that's the issue
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I would argue that to a certain degree killer experience translates pretty well; mindgaming an unsafe pallet as Clown works similar to mindgaming an unsafe pallet as Trapper, for instance, and zoning a survivor into a dead zone is similar to zoning them into a part of the map that is trapped. I think the bigger problem is:
-Big name content creators have done big long win streaks back when MMR didn't exist or was more lenient, or when the game was more volatile
-Less experienced players see that and feel like they ought to be able to pull off similar win streaks, not recognizing the macro and micro mechanics involved in many of the wins and the number of attempts some of the more ridiculous streaks took (note this applies to both survivor and killer players)
-Because of negativity bias, when these players invariably fail to first-try replicate the streaks that more experienced players would grind months for, they genuinely feel as if the game is rigged against them
-People make change requests based on their incorrect impression of balance
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598983#Comment_3598983
I already stated that those comments about win loss draw is in regards to MMR adjustments only, not actual win or loss rates. They even highlight the fact its only referring to MMR adjustments. They even made it in big bold letters - I'm surprised you missed that. MMR adjustments are entirely separate from a win or a loss. Some games even reduce your MMR level even if you win - depending on how you won. For a DBD example, a survivor might afk the entire match, then come back at the last moment and get out the door. Should they go up in MMR? That kind of example, the devs could consider someone with extremely low points despite escaping be reduced (or neutral) in MMR regardless if they won. Not saying they do, but im pointing out MMR adjustments does not equal a win rate in the industry.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599052#Comment_3599052
BHVR is the ones themselves that stated survivors do not win/lose/draw as a team. They said each individual survivors gets their own win or loss condition. A draw requires both sides to neither win nor lose, and there is never a situation where the killer and each individual survivor never wins or loses. It is impossible to actually draw a match of dbd (unless the server goes down, ha). However, they need to still do MMR adjustments. It would be better worded that they say the MMR increases, stays neutral, or decreases.
I'm not sure why you don't understand this concept. A draw requires ALL players neither win or lose, and that is fundamentally impossible unless the server crashes. It's 1 killer vs 4 individual survivors, and each survivor per BHVR's own words get their own individual win or loss condition. The survivors side will always either have at least one winner or all losers (and the killer wins obviously). Those are the only two outcomes. Neither outcome do all players neither win nor lose.
The only actual draw is a server crash. MMR adjustments are separate from wins or losses. BHVR could keep someone with 0 points by AFKing the whole match and then escaping at the same MMR or lower it if they wanted. They have to do SOMETHING to adjust fir MMR, and the easiest way is to do 3k+ goes up, 2k stays the same, and 0-1 goes down. It's ineffective, as proper MMR adjustments are far more complicated than that, but that's what they go with.
Let's try this logically. Killer got a 2k, and 2 survivors escapes. The killer gets a draw, and those two survivors won. Two survivors lost. No survivors draw. Now it sounds silly to call it a draw, no? Exactly. This isn't a killer team vs survivor team situation. If a survivor escapes, they don't all go up in mmr. If 3 survivors escape, they don't all go up in mmr. It's 1 vs 4 individuals with their own separate win conditions.
I didn't miss it, I simply agree with the MMR system's way of classifying what is a win, draw, or loss because it makes the most sense, and your "it isn't a draw in reality" just seems fairly ridiculous. "Yes, it makes sense for someone who defeated exactly half their opponents and was defeated by the other half to have a neutral result, and yes the in game ranking system considers that to be the case, but actually that's wrong, just trust"
I will make the caveat that for gameplay statistics it only makes sense to compare escape rate to kill rate stats on an individual level or to analyze total number of escapes vs kills within a match on a team level, so MMR isn't the exact perfect way of determining game balance, but you won't convince me that a 2 out isn't a draw for killer, no matter how much you appeal to "the industry" (what industry???)
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598611#Comment_3598611
A 62.5% kill rate would be the killers getting a 3k or 4k in roughly half their matches. In other words. Killers with a 50% win rate would need a 62.5% kill rate.
If it was a 50% kill rate on average every match would result in only 2 kills (not a win). Considering a killer needs 3k+ to win, in order for a killer to win every match, they'd need a 75% kill rate (which we obviously don't want). So to get an even ground of losing every match (50%) and winning every match (75%), you'd take the middle ground of 62.5%. This would put them at winning half their matches on average. Since the desired kill rate per BHVR is only 60%, this means that killers should be winning roughly half their matches but with an occasional extra loss on top of that since they are 2.5% short of it being a 50% win rate.
As for draws, there is no actual draw in dbd, as BHVR stated that survivors win or lose at an individual basis. It's a 1 killer vs 4 individuals game, not a killer team vs survivor team. If 1 survivor escapes and 3 survivors die, then the survivors had 1 winner and 3 losers. Draw requires both sides to neither win or lose which isn't possible with a 1 vs 4 individuals system. You either win or you lose. However, for MMR, BHVR does treat a 2 kill as neutral for MMR adjustments even though it's not actually a draw in reality.
Thanks for this post, I've been meaning to work on an intro to stats video based on this exact argument and seeing yet another person make it gave me some motivation to get work done on it
edit: also, with regards to your claim that "there is no actual draw in DBD" that's just plain incorrect:
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Killers tend to 4k when they win, so a 60% kill rate is more like a 50% win rate. I made a thread about this long ago. https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/348478/bhvr-can-you-post-and-balance-around-win-draw-and-loss-rates-instead-of-kill-rates/p1
53% kill rate translates to 46%/13%/41% win/draw/loss rate so I suspect winrate at 60% kill rate may be well higher than 50% (7% increase in kills will translate to probably more than 4% increase in wins)
That's also before accounting for draws
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Sometimes the luck is a bit weird. I think the main reason for what you're describing is that you're more likely to get a banana flavored add-on instead of a strawberry or grape flavored one, but since there are only a couple pink items/add-ons to choose and they're individually more memorable you realize it more. There's 25 uncommon Survivor add-ons and items, but only 6 Ultra Rare ones (and that's not counting all the offerings)
I found the rates eventually even out and you'll get more spools eventually