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@NullEXE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1092359#Comment_1092359
Not everything. Just the things they do that ruins the fun for everyone else.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1092365#Comment_1092365
When a chess player forfeits they lose the match. You can suicide on hook and still pip. You can suicide on hook to give another survivor hatch and ensure 2 pips. You can suicide on hook and ruin the game for 1-3 other people.
I never said give a timeout penalty for people that sui. I said ensure they are not rewarded for doing so.
Opening the exit gate is alot different than purposly killing yourself (when your goal is to survive). It works with perks, as well as creates a new enviroment to play in. Like today. I killed one survivor after the last gen went, slugged another, openened the gate so they had less time to save, then hooked the slug survivor. As I kept pushing the other two out the door they had no choice but to leave the last survivor behind. Hatch tech isn't that and is frowned upon by the devs. The hatches purpose was to stop survivors from taking the game hostage, not be abused for free wins.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1092374#Comment_1092374
Thats my point. The devs do disaprove of it. The hatch mechanic is not meant to give free wins. Which is why I wasn't scared to make this thread and have such a strong stance. Suiciding on hook you can do but you are penalize via rank as a result. If you don't care about rank - great! You remain inlw ranks where it doesn't matter. You do, then you don't suicide - ruining games or abusing free win mechanics.
They don't disapprove of it enough to actually try to discourage it with mechanics though, unlike things like disconnecting (DC penalties), "mindless" camping (emblem penalty for camping with no survivors nearby) and so on. The hatch does let the final survivor get out when they probably wouldn't have otherwise, but in that situation that's still 3 kills.
Killer emblems being very demanding in high ranks is silly as black pipping or even depipping with 3 or 4 kills is just not right in my opinion outside of extreme cases like a killer slugging everyone right away and letting them bleed out, or somehow getting all 4 while camping in a way that punishes their emblems. But that's a different discussion.
I guess we might just simply disagree there, as I don't inherently have anything against the idea of this sort of "free win" - I just want a 3k + hatch escape to be consistently recognized as a killer win as well as it really is exactly that.
And the other way to escape through the hatch - keys - is quite simply just a pretty dumb item that should be changed in my opinion. Maybe if they make them do something else they could get rid of the hatch spawning before it's ready to open in general, which in itself would "nerf" the whole suicide on hook to give hatch thing. Because then they couldn't just sit there waiting on the unopened hatch and it'd more or less be down to luck.
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You guys even opened the gate, I see no harm in farming a bit in the already limited time available in EGC.
If anything the people that get mad at others for opening the gates in situations like that are worse if you ask me.
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I don't think that will ever be punished. Disconnects open the hatch instantly and screw the killer out of points, as well as screwing survivors by occupying the killer for less time and not taking a hook with them when they die. Dying on hook is within the game's mechanics. Survivors are free to decide if they want to be altruistic or not, so someone on the hook should be free to decide if they want to struggle or not.
I also dislike the idea of a guaranteed depip no matter what happened earlier in the match. Assuming matchmaking works as intended someone that by all means should be a rank 1 survivor could play normally or even try to troll the killer no matter their rank, and then get themselves in a situation to derank further no matter how much emblem score they gained in the match.
Then again I view what you call hatch tech as little more than an act of altruism. Sacrificing themselves to give someone else a potentially better chance of escaping. With DC penalties a killer can slug to prevent it from happening for a while and the survivor can't DC to circumvent it without penalty. Even if the devs disapprove of it, unless they punish people for doing it you can't expect people to stop. And I highly doubt they'll punish it beyond extreme cases like someone that clearly get put on a hook and suicides there in the first minute of the match on a regular basis.
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In general nothing should be straight up removed. Even heavily controversial things like original Mettle of Man and Legion didn't just get deleted from the game, even though how they were reworked is a completely different discussion 😄
Reworked though? Yeah, for sure. I find the map pretty boring to play as both killer and survivor. Sorta fun to permanently block balconies that can only be reached through a window as Trapper though I will admit.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1088141#Comment_1088141
More than with GF?
At least GF doesn't pop out of the ground to go WAAAHG or whatever when he jumps you out of nowhere!
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@Gibberish said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1089577#Comment_1089577
"You can't force people to play if they really don't want to"
If they didnt want to play they shouldnt have even queued up in the first place.
You know, I honestly agree with you there. If only it was that simple and people actually didn't ready up unless they were intent on finishing the match no matter what happens (besides serious bugs and stuff of course, I'll never blame the guy stuck in a tree or something for disconnecting 😄)
But it's like with "toxicity" and legitimate harassment. Obviously the best case scenario would be if people simply didn't do that sort of stuff, but that's sadly unrealistic and the best that can really be done is try to limit it and crack down on the true serial offenders that go too far. If people absolutely do insist on leaving I'd rather they do it on the hook than by disconnecting for a variety of reasons.
There's games with much harsher punishments for both leaving matches in progress and "throwing" in one way or another, but they're usually games that are far more geared towards straight up esports and tournament play.
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You can't force people to play if they really don't want to. If they can't DC or suicide on hook, they'll just afk.
At least when people die on hook it gives the killer credit, they take more of the killer's time and they take a hook down with them as well as not opening the hatch instantly.
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That sounds more like you're burnt out than anything else. You seem like you're very "meh" towards the very core gameplay loop of the game itself, combined with the current matchmaking issues and the like.
If you don't want to take a break try doing something weird. Do perk roulettes, play more casually in general, make bizarre and gimmicky builds and try to make them work. And if that doesn't work or you don't want to, taking a break is also a very good option if you feel burnt out.
I don't mean it in a "lol just play civ 4Head" sort of way, I've taken breaks from several games I love before because I could tell I was getting burnt out. I've also failed to do it in the past, and as much as I liked the game in question forcing myself to play it ruined it for me. To this day I can't be bothered to ever reinstall it and get back into it.
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When I find out the killer is Hag by stepping on one of her traps, because that spooks me real good 😄
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I have no issue with that, at least then they leave the game through gameplay mechanics and the killer gets their emblems, BBQ stack and any other hook-related things like a PGTW charge and such. And it also takes a bit more of the killer's time and consumes a hook.
You can't really force someone to play if they really don't want to. Survivors can suicide on hook, killers can face a wall and go afk.
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Whatever floats your boat, personally I'd rather get my BBQ stack, PGTW activation or whatever else I'm running that relies on a hook.
And not like it'll eliminate disconnections anyway. I still see both survivors and killers do good old ragequits despite the penalties, the first tiers of timeouts aren't that harsh anyway.
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@mmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084243#Comment_1084243
I'm on PS4. During the evening/night time hours I wait at bare minimum 10 minutes for a match. It's not uncommon to wait 30. Occasionally I even wait 40 minutes or so. When a killer dodges because they don't like the lobby the wait time is going to start all over again. I may wait another 30 to 40 minutes because a killer didn't like the lobby.
I'll admit I based what I said on my own experience and I play on PC, in your situation it's still obviously an annoying and time-consuming thing 😟
For me personally the inability to dodge wouldn't really matter as I don't do it in the first place, but I know a lot of players feel very differently. For reasons ranging from fairly common and understandable to very strange reasons that are probably based on experiences they've had personally before.
I guess it's like with DC penalties for survivors - if players really don't want to play they can just suicide on hook. A killer that really doesn't want to play would just face a wall and afk if they can't dodge or DC. Not really any really good solutions without any clear downsides that I can think of.
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Lobby dodging is way less "annoying" than it used to be anyway.
It used to be like... you load into a lobby, killer decides they want to dodge so you get sent back to the main menu. If you were SWF you gotta invite everyone all over again and then go through another queue. If another survivor left the lobby sometimes it even made it a "cursed lobby" where you sit around waiting for #4 forever and you eventually decided to leave as well. From the post earlier in the thread I assume this is still the case on Xbox?
Now SWF no longer need to re-invite eachother all the time (unless the game gets confused and people have to restart because someone is permanently "in match lobby" or something), and if the killer dodges the survivors stay in the lobby waiting for another killer which usually doesn't take long at all.
Someone that genuinely dodge for a LOT of reasons only really have any impact on themselves. If it's some less common reason to dodge like 2 flashlights or a cosmetic the killer doesn't want to play against for some reason it won't take long to get a killer that doesn't care. And if the survivors insist on going in with 4 toolboxes or whatever they can just last second switch anyway.
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I see the most of some sort of mix of Billy, Doctor and Freddy. Spirit and Huntress in the runner-up spots.
Least? Without a doubt Hag. And in my experience when I do meet a Hag they knows what they're doing on the killer.
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I use the perks, together or not, but for me it's just about variety. I can't exclusively or even nearly exclusively play one killer for the same reason, even if it's "the best" in one way or another I just get really bored if I do the same thing over and over again.
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Because you can break pallets and you can't break vault locations.
If it's a pallet where you simply can't catch the survivor at all unless they mess up, break it. Some can be turned into mindgameable pallets with bloodlust, so that's also an option for some if you really want to. If it's a genuine unsafe and mindgameable pallet from the start and they get to vault it repeatedly without taking a hit they simply outplayed you on that pallet.
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Shhh, "swf -.-" is one of the two all-powerful excuses. Everyone knows that typing "swf -.-" or "camper tunneler -.-" immediately erases the match that just happened from history, so whatever happened (like a loss perhaps) didn't happen afterall! 🙃
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Some people just give up if they have a bad start.
Go down quickly? DC. Mori offering? DC. Or something that I've seen several times over the last few days.
Killer brings an ebony mori, catches someone and hovers around to get them with the mori as soon as they're unhooked. Then the survivors actually protect the unhooked person after unhooking them, killer can't get them so they DC 😄
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I'd only do that if there's just like 10 seconds left of EGC, at that point might as well see the sorta rare animation.
To me it's a complete waste of time that I'd much rather use to get back to playing the game.
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How exactly would anyone do that with dedicated servers? Not even old MLGA worked that way, players still had to manually leave a lobby if someone they had blocked was there.
And even if such a program exists it's most likely 100% undetectable by EAC anyway. MLGA for example didn't do anything that a dedicated player couldn't do with any sort of connection monitoring software, a notepad document and patience, and it just threw an overlay on top of the screen. It didn't actually interact directly with the game's process, files or memory in any way whatsoever.
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I don't really bring toolboxes because I just find them really boring. Woo, I do thing faster. Would much rather have a medkit or even map/flashlight to be honest, they're more fun to use. But what's with language like "audacity"? They're in the game (and according to the devs getting looked at/nerfed), don't blame players for game balance issues.
@[Deleted User] said:
What happened to “it’s not your responsibility to make sure the other side has fun”?
Shhh, that's a... flexible statement. It's only valid when it's convenient 😉
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@Kai6864 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1076543#Comment_1076543
Sorry if I’m not getting this right but are you saying if for example, OoO is banned from SWF they should just lobby dodge to gain an advantage? I’m not quite sure what you’re saying here.
They could dodge to get eachother as "solos" instead of joining as a party, like people did before SWF was added in general to play with friends. All you do then is reserve the advantage for people that go more out of their way to get it, like games that hide FOV settings or something in .ini files and the like. Anyone can do it, but not everyone knows how to or can be bothered to do it.
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While in the vast majority of cases it'd be a good thing, you'd probably get people dodging perks like No Mither or perk loadouts that make it seem like a player has a playstyle they dislike in one way or another.
I'd still want some sort of simple 1-button way to "broadcast" your loadout to the lobby though, so basically making it an opt-in system that also lets console players do it. I'm sure there'd be some people that would assume anyone not using it will by default be up to "no good" but that'd be a very tiny (and paranoid) minority 😄
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@batax90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074921#Comment_1074921
You know i can hook you go after someone else and if im unlucky i can down you when you are unhook and you still have your ds up because its been 50 second so if this is what you call tunneling you are probably one of those survivor who think if a killer stay on the map he is camping you
That's not what I'm talking about at all, chill with the assumptions.
I'm specifically talking about situations where the killer does immediately go for the recently unhooked person, downs them and instantly picks them up. And then acts surprised when they get hit with DS.
I'm not talking about the situations where a killer that isn't tunneling gets hit with it at all.
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For your TF2 example I think the original Liberty Launcher is a better example. Just the rocket launcher with faster rockets (easier to hit) but with one less before you gotta reload (less DPS potential) - better if you can't hit your rockets, straight up worse if you can hit default rockets. The Loch n Load used to have higher damage that broke important damage thresholds and the current version sorta specializes in destroying buildings.
BUT ANYWAY I agree as I view the term in a similar way when it comes to gaming. Something that makes something easier short term, but is worse long term. Lowers the skill floor but also lowers the skill ceiling for you at the same time. In DBD and many other games it's in my opinion quickly becoming a pointless buzzword that could be replaced with terms like "overpowered" or "unfair" without any issue at all.
But I guess that's just because my definition of the word applied to stuff in gaming is different to that of other people. Just like other terms that can often leave people confused in a similar way like toxic, tryhard/sweaty and so on.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074815#Comment_1074815
No offense, but not every killer gets hit by DS because of tunnelling or camping. Saying they are all crybabies are rude.
That's not what I'm saying at all.
But if they do so and then ragequit after genuinely tunneling and getting hit by DS, the perk's intended purpose, then they're pretty silly. That's just a perk working as intended.
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If they do that from the start they're probably farming the rift and didn't give up. I don't really have an opinion one way or another about it to be honest.
When killers do seem to give up (as in thing happens -> killer stands still for several seconds -> killer disconnects) that's just a good old ragequit. In that case it depends on several factors. I sorta understand if they obviously got screwed by matchmaking, but if they DC after getting hit with a DS they 100% deserved to get hit by or something like that then yeah, no sympathy from me. That's just a crybaby tier ragequit.
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Yeah, no.
Already got the archive challenges to encourage people to try whichever side they don't play that much a bit more than dailies already did (and still do), that's the furthest you should ever go in that direction. Encouraging players and rewarding them for doing so. You don't punish them for not doing so.
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So what exactly should they do about it? Because if you mean any form of mechanical nerfs or handicaps (less perks, slower gens or whatever) then yeah, that's never going to happen.
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I play survivor if the friend I usually play with wants to play, and usually killer otherwise. If I had to put percentages on it I'd imagine it ends up something like 60/40 survivor/killer in the end.
Been like that for me since I started playing the game, and still is.
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@Hopesfall said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1072556#Comment_1072556
literally the easiest challenge in the game
you need help with that?
Still encourages people to try to get the challenge done ASAP to move on to the next one. Just like someone might bring perks like empathy, we'll make it or botany knowledge for a healing challenge, or a killer might bring a mori for a kill all 4 survivors by any means necessary challenge.
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I mean, if they run right up to the hook like that unless you mess up you get to down them more or less for free? And if they do that it's pretty obvious they have BT in the first place, so you can remember to down them instead of the unhooked player.
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If I just want to bring an item and don't want anything else my usual go-to is a yellow flashlight with a brown battery. I don't go out of my way to actively follow the killer around or anything but it's not too uncommon that someone goes down near enough to me for me to get a save.
They're fun items to use and a lot of the time actually getting hit with a flashlight save can be easily avoided by the killer anyway.
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I actually wonder how maps are chosen.
Does it just roll for a specific map, or does it go Realm -> Specific Map? Doing the latter might be more fair for 1-map realms, even if they might make the maps "overrepresented" in its own way 😄
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I thought this was gonna be about killers like how OoO can still screw with trap killers really bad, calm spirit vs doc and so on. There's a very good reasons stuff like camping/tunneling/slugging has dedicated counterperks. Even though "fun" has become some sort of dirty word to some people it makes perfect sense to put things in the game that makes those playstyles less safe and guaranteed to work.
There's certainly discussions to be had about how perks like DS and BT works, and how they synergize with other perks like Unbreakable. But the basic ideas behind the perks (help vs tunneling, camping and slugging respectively) = completely fine and understandable.
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In general anything that gets said anywhere else than in endgame chat goes to whoever runs the service in question.
Someone leaves way too angry comments on your steam profile? That's Steam's problem.
Someone sends you messages on PS or Xbox? That's Sony/Microsoft's problem.
Someone comes to your stream and says all sorts of garbage in chat? That's a problem for whatever streaming service you're using.
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Only if I have a Mori daily as I don't really like using mori offerings.
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As far as I'm aware it's one of those "they won't hunt you down for it, but if you get banned by EAC they can't help you" greyzone/use at your own risk sort of things. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!
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No perk, item, addon, killer, way of playing (think solo/swf) or offering magically makes someone bad just because they use it. It's just as pointless as calling someone a "tryhard" or "sweaty" and thinking that's any sort of arguement at all.
Do I think the game is perfectly balanced? Not at all. But blaming players for using stuff that's in the game is a complete waste of time.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1066989#Comment_1066989
What about survivors leaving a husk behind when they DC? Or is it just another "######### killers and everything about y'all" thing?
A husk system would have to be carefully implemented as there's plenty of ways it could in some way go wrong.
It's one thing if it can be left on the ground for the full bleedout duration, then the other survivor knows there's no point in picking them up and plan accordingly. But the actual "the killer can hook them even if they DC" part many people want could lead to some issues if not implemented carefully.
If it doesn't wiggle, immortal backpack that gives the killer as much time as they want to find the other survivor if it's 1v1 at that point. Just carry them around and drop when you find the other survivor. If they do wiggle, same thing - they wouldn't be in dying state anymore and would again be an immortal anti-hatch ... thing.
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For me personally it's Spirit. I just don't enjoy how she plays at all no matter how strong she can be or if it's while stuff like sounds and her post-phase lunge works properly or not.
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At least with base snap out of it time you have time to snap out of it before you go down, and if you keep sprinting your DW will never go down in the first place. Dunno about how it works with addon that slows down snapping out of it, or lower levels of Borrowed Time.
Wouldn't be surprised if it's changed simply because "guaranteed downs" via DW of any kind has been something the devs clearly never want to be in the game again ever since the first Legion rework.
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If I'm still there I just say gg like usual honestly.
Most of the time it changes nothing, and if they make it clear they were genuinely "playing for salt" a GG is probably not what they were after in the first place, which is amusing to me 😄
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The slightly/moderately/considerably/tremendously language is used all over the place though, but not for everything.
It tells you exactly how far your aura reading with Scratched Mirror is, it tells you exactly how many hatchets the infantry belt gives you, but it doesn't tell you exactly how much time primer bulb saves you.
At the same time it tells survivors that gel dressings give them 16 extra charges for their medkit, but it doesn't tell them exactly how much time they save on heal if they put on medical scissors as an add-on.
It's something all players have to "deal with"
Honestly the post you quoted sorta has a point in some situations if you ask me. When I actually looked up how much add-ons did for me (especially billy charge speed ones) I was surprised that the percentages weren't bigger, it feels way more meaningful during a match than when you just look at the numbers on a wiki page.
EDIT: And for the record I'd much rather have the actual numbers available in game. Even though it would probably make people underestimate potentially strong add-ons if they just look at the numbers 😄
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Probably way back when I ran into one of those Pizza Dwight "cult" squads.
I had no idea it was a thing, so seeing 4 Dwights - 3 with full pizza Dwight gear and one with the Dweard head - just calmly look at me and walk towards me was an experience and a half.
Fun times. They brought me with them to the basement where they had some sort of nodding ritual as they all got 2hooked, and then at the end they opened a gate in the classic "one pull on the lever each" way, left me their items and left. 😄
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I'm pretty sure it has been that way for a while, at least since Enduring stopped interacting with perk stuns like DS and Head On?
Pallet, Head On and Flashlight stuns all trigger the "Killer grasp escape stun" if you want to call it that, not a regular stun. It looks different from both 1st person and 3rd person. And from a gameplay perspective I guess it's so the killer doesn't recover so fast that the save is practically pointless.
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It's not really specifically to help the other side, but I don't really go out of my way to bring other items than cheap flashlights/medkits/maps for points and totems, and I don't really ever use moris. I just find most of the items either silly (keys) or just sorta boring.
I don't really go out of my way to camp/tunnel or spam super strong loops either. Because again I personally find it boring and I'd honestly rather lose and do something I find interesting. I enjoy chasing, outplaying and getting outplayed more than anything, and I don't really get much of that if I just camp someone to death or vault the ironworks window 3 times at the start of every chase that happens near it.
I let people go if I feel like it as well, and if I'm the last alive and the killer closes the hatch I often just spam a locker or something and nod at them when they come over. Now with all the challenges I will happily let a killer kill me in any way they want at the end of the game if I finished a challenge that match.
I guess I'm overall fairly "casual" as I don't care too much about end results like how many people I kill or if I escape, and I also barely consider anything "toxic" (if someone doesn't go full rage monster in postgame chat, anything goes in my eyes). So my mindset is probably pretty foreign to a lot of players 😄
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I don't really see how you can compare the escape of an individual survivor to a killer getting a 4K or whatever. The equivalent to that would be all 4 survivors escaping however many games in a row.
I don't see any problem with someone's individual escape rate being high. If we just assume a truly perfect 2k balance where every match ends in a 2k and the survivors play anything that resembles normally, over time it would become more and more statistically unlikely for an individual survivor to continue to be one of the 2 that escapes.
And in most of those crazy escape streaks they play with at least one person that will happily sacrifice their life to keep the streak going. They're not even playing normal DBD anymore but some sort of "Protect The VIP" game mode. If survivors want to, they can select a specific survivor as the one that they want to escape, and do a damn fine job of improving that survivor's odds. But that might mean dying for them. I see no problem with that at all, if anything it can make them play less effectively overall. They will trade however many people it takes to save the VIP afterall, even if it's a Leatherface with his chainsaw revved in their face.
The "streamsnipers" are a mixed bag too. Some just want to boost the streak, others will do everything in their power to end it for one reason or another.
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Depends, I generally try to do generators if there's any realistic chance whatsoever I can finish them before the other(s) get killed. Never know, might have Adrenaline and something great happens.
When it comes down to me about to be the last alive it also depends. If I know where it is I'll probably go for it, otherwise if it's not a very mobile killer I'll probably just pick a gate and wait. Depending on map + killer it's basically a 50/50 at that point.