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@Meepy13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483764#Comment_3483764
Edited the post, I realize now saying every endurance perk is easy to activate is dumb
haha i've been there lmao I didnt know MoM needed stacks at first like a year ago and thought it was just a 3rd health state, and was very confused why it was not meta
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endurance is very limited. most endurance is relegated to anti tunnel or very hard to gain or very limited
- MoM takes forever to proc
- OTR is anti tunnel, so is basekit BT
- DH only gets 2 uses
the only problematic ones I can find are MFT and new buckle up. new buckle up just puts you in a lose-lose scenario and MFT is MFT
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you lost any credibility after calling OTR bad
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483722#Comment_3483722
Who would have thought mach 3 blight won't notice 3%.
indeed, thats why I mentioned that I play blight; because my point was that because I play blight, I do not notice the 3%. figured that'd be obvious.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Who Is Larry?
singularity, Mr Singu Larry T.
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Deep wound causes endurance to do nothing. Its to prevent stacking the effects to have 7 hit chases, which was a bit of an issue on the 6.1.0 PTB where this got implemented.
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havent seen a hag in at least 3 weeks now.
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brown med kits are the best med kits lol the rest are just browns but more rare
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i disagree, DC penalty should stay. The bots are cracked and all but a real player is better. Also its no fun to face a bot, you know you didnt outplay it. it was just programmed to fall for your tricks etc no fun there.
I think 4% as a whole should be removed along with hook suicides. its a clutch mechanic thats completely uncounterable and skilless for such massive value. Its not like a deli or unbreakable proc where you had to bring the perk, it just happens. And then you can just dc without a penalty too. I think the best way to go would be to just remove all forms of hook suiciding and just have deli be the only way to self unhook, slippery meat too.
i actually think we should raise the dc penalty. In valorant for example dc penalty at base is 10 minutes if im not mistaken. In dbd it starts at like 10s. Goes to one minute, 5 minutes, 10 15 and so on. Its ridiculously low. if you are DCing for any legitimate reason then the penalty will be up by the time you are back. It should not baby people who just tilt and want to leave or dont like they got wesker for the 35th time today.
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killer repeat prevent system is a stupid idea, killer queue times on good killers would skyrocket while trappers instaqueue.
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I dont even notice half the time I just play blight
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play nurse for 5000h full meta hard tunneling every survivor
is what I would say if killer was this absolutely useless role getting crushed every match. Sure 4 man swfs can be difficult but theres virtually no difference between a good 4 swf and 4 great solos. You can beat 4 great solos, you can beat a 4 man swf. Most killers will be able to get a 2k here, maybe not a 4k but tunneling will grant you that 2k.
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@ImTheOneWhoChases said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483578#Comment_3483578
balanced it is not, like most things in the game for the classic reasons. You either buff for solo q or nerf for swf, but because they matchmake in the same lobies, killers get either juiced or survs served on silver platter. It's not a problem with 3%. It just is not. I can juice with sb all day without the guy ever hitting me, or finding me (lightweight + sb is very strong combo, I think currently the strongest for quick escapes, therefore survival) But it's not fun, the killer is bored, I am bored. So I run mft and it makes everything tiny bit more balanced sometimes. I say sometimes because there is nurse, billy, blight, wesker, trickster, knight, marchant, huntress, the plague. Only the most played killers in the game and mft is just useless against them. (trickster is maybe not that played but he is ranged and mft is pointless) So yeah, it may be a slight advantage to one killer, but they wait 15 seconds and they counter it anyway, and then you have the rest to which it does nothing, where the actual value of the perk is the endurance. People over rate this perk so much its insane.
side noteI forget to mention. Sadako cant counter MFT in any capacity. Her TVs will do absolutely nothing unless you literally run directly in front of it as shes teleporting. That simply isnt happening against good survivors. The only way this could ever happen is if they are W gaming the whole chase and somehow end up in front of a TV. Good survivors dont W game anyways. Sadako, as usual, is unplayable.
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sounds fun. Some tweaks would need to happen though.
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@Annso_x said:
Nurse is fun to go against
based
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@Blueberry said:
Exhaustion perks have been massively overtuned since their inception and even after their nerfs. If you would never not run an exhaustion perk if your intention was winning that tells you they’re a problem. No set of perks should always be auto lock ins.
You could hypothetically double the exhaustion timer and you would still see an exhaustion perk on every single survivor, that should tell you how overtuned they are. What perk gets it’s cooldown doubled and is still ran on every single player? That shows they were never close to the “balanced” line to begin with.
They arent overtuned, their just the only good chase perks survivors have. At least the only ones oriented directly to chase and not like resilience with some other effect. Their the best in their class because everything else in it is garbage, not because their overtuned.
If you can consistently win chases in under a minute vs any non MFT exh perk then its balanced. The only possible gripe i have is with how easy it can be to use lithe for such massive value.
Also by the logic of nothing should be auto lock in, does pain resonance/deadlock need a nerf because everyone is using them all the time? or do people use them all the time because their the only good gen defense in the game? The same applies to exhaustion perks, something being the best in its class doesnt make it overpowered. Their only remotely broken vs m1 killers who were trash to begin with. If you are losing because of exhaustion perks then you are playing a bad killer.
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Nurse is a balanced killer with fair and consistent counterplay. The only reason that you lose in 1v1 is if shes better than you. People just want her nerfed because besides blights addons shes really all thats left on the killer end that everyone wont flame you for wanting gone.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483586#Comment_3483586
Are other sounds directional? Like grunts of pain or such?
Yes. If the sound is physically happening in the trial then its directional. The only outlier I can think of is screams, which are not directional. But thats counterracted by getting a notification on where they are. If it comes from something like a perk gaining/losing a token, the obsession changing, or the terror radius, then its non directional.
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@ImTheOneWhoChases said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483578#Comment_3483578
balanced it is not, like most things in the game for the classic reasons. You either buff for solo q or nerf for swf, but because they matchmake in the same lobies, killers get either juiced or survs served on silver platter. It's not a problem with 3%. It just is not. I can juice with sb all day without the guy ever hitting me, or finding me (lightweight + sb is very strong combo, I think currently the strongest for quick escapes, therefore survival) But it's not fun, the killer is bored, I am bored. So I run mft and it makes everything tiny bit more balanced sometimes. I say sometimes because there is nurse, billy, blight, wesker, trickster, knight, marchant, huntress, the plague. Only the most played killers in the game and mft is just useless against them. (trickster is maybe not that played but he is ranged and mft is pointless) So yeah, it may be a slight advantage to one killer, but they wait 15 seconds and they counter it anyway, and then you have the rest to which it does nothing, where the actual value of the perk is the endurance. People over rate this perk so much its insane.
The 10s endurance is the worse part of this perk. Saying that its a soloQ vs SWF issue is such a copout, "MFT isnt a problem its matchmaking/swf". Thats just wrong. Obviously nurse and blight dont give a damn, they can use their power on any loop in the game and down you if used well enough. But nearly ANY other killer its massive. You provide a few examples of what you find to be killers completely unaffected by MFT:
- Billy
- Nurse
- Blight
- Wesker
- Trickster
- SM
- Huntress
- Plague
Only two of these are true, predictably nurse and blight. As I mentioned their powers dont care if you are 3% faster, they cant down you anyway. And since their powers can be used anywhere, MFT is just a dead slot against them beyond the clutch effect. But every other killer mentioned effected heavily.
Billy: Only true if he gets every hit with chainsaw. Which is completely unfeasible. Keep in mind any killer that cant use power to down on every loop is just a typical M1 killer on those loops. Thus extending time on those loops by 20%, enough to grant at least a few more go arounds. For billy this is true on nearly every loop in the game.
Wesker: Its the billy effect. Yeah his power is very versatile and usable at a lot of loops. But only on large ones. The VAST majority of loops are very tight filler pallet loops. He can't use his power on any of those, except a very small amount of map specific outliers. The fact is hes just an M1 killer on the vast majority of loops. Sure he can easily close the distance gained, but the extra time gained on the pallet loop (upwards of 10s) outclasses the few seconds gained. And his 8% hinder only works at full infection which will only happen if the survivors let it or if you are tunneling. And if you are tunneling then the game is already swayed massively in your favor, MFT wont even it out.
Trickser: This ones actually a reverse of wesker. Tricksters power is at its best at short pallet loops. As long as he can look over them he can down you, MFT or not. Or if you get caught out in the open very close to him, then you are definitely going down. but realistically those two situations only happen if you let them. Just dont loop of loops he can see over and hes garbage. And even then you can just crouch behind stuff. Trickster is probably the most affected by MFT. Loop him at anything without constant LOS it will take FOREVER TO DOWN YOU. Even without MFT, thats why hes C-tier. hes an inconsistent mess of a killer thats broken and uncounterable at some loops and completely garbage at others. Thus we have the billy effect once again, except this time instead of 20% its a whole 30% time increase. Roughly, he can still get you with knives but by god it will take forever without LOS. I used to play trickster, now its unbearable since 7.0.0.
SM: Its a lot less good but good nonetheless. Keep in mind that if nobody has gone and hacked a drone then shes quite literally an M1 killer. When someones hacked a drone she gets that 3% herself, turning the tables. While healthy this is crazy good and shortens chasetime by that 20%. But if you have MFT then its just a regular M1 chase while you are injured. Keep in mind her boost only lasts for as long as theirs a claw trap on someone. Roughly 30s if I remember right. Unless a drone gets hacked mid chase that timer will absolutely be up by the time she injures you. Thus the billy effect strikes once more except now on every loop in the game except for almost all of them. Also i know she gets a higher boost for more claw traps on people, but that will happen for such a short time at once its not meaningful. MFT is only hard countered if you get exposed because shes 3 genning, and you can always just hack the drone. Leading right back to the start of this segment.
huntress: See trickster except less abhorrent. Missing a shot becomes incredibly punishing, moreso than it already is. You need to hit EVERY hatchet, and even then you might just get billy effected on tall wall loops.
Plague: I guess so. The best strat is to be injured all game, and like I said being healthy is better for MFT. I do think that if you are cleansing I disagree, because you can always just W game and then we've got the billy effect once again.
Only nure and blight are entirely unaffected by MFT. And even if the 8 killers you mentioned were completely unaffected, then 24 killers still would be. And highly so. Thats 75% of the roster, majority weaker killers, being completely ruined by one perk. Meanwhile the 25%, mostly high tiers, rejoice while survivors ran a dead perk. meanwhile this isnt true and its closer to 93% of the roster being highly effected.
Sidenote: SB+Lightweight is kinda pointless. You could run so many better/actually good and strong perks than lightweight. They can still follow your scratch marks very easily, they arent that incredibly spaced out. I'd recommend running something like distortion instead. Distortion actually hides your aura, keeping you safe when you could have potentially been in a lot of danger. Unlike lightweight which will really wont keep you very safe at all in situations where you are in a ton of danger. Plus SB kinda gets the job done on safety while close to the killer.
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483476#Comment_3483476
Wraith got burn removed? Since when?
I've been gone for a minute, but I thought I had caught up on everything. I had no clue about burn being gone.
about 6 months ago, all flashlight interactions with killers got removed. all they do is blind now, nothing else. if its not a blind it cant do it anymore. except nemmy zombies for some reason, they still get blinded.
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they arent hooking anyone. slam gens.
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You:
:[If]/:[Bug]:=:[True]:, :[Then]:/:[Remove]:=:[Now]:
Hug tech makes blight infinite more fun (contrary to your opinion, not that you'd know since you probably dont play blight) and has plenty of counter play. The same outcome could be achieved through typical bump logic, hug tech is just more fun. The only time its objectively better is at filler pallets. And even then you can just RUN AWAY. or drop the pallet, run the opposite direction he rushes, go around the other end of the loop etc.
What did some blight get a sick down on you with hug tech and now you think its absolutely broken? now you want him banned?
Sure, when 360s are bannable since they abuse aim dressing. Or moonwalking since thats a biproduct of movement coding. or better yet, lets ban survivors for using heal tech on downed friends at gates! What, its a bug and is used for an advantage! That means its an exploit and should get them both banned. Or I could just hit the survivor and move on. But nope, gotta lose so i can complain on the forums.
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@LobbyDodgerLeonidas said:
Wow he got a 3k and he's complaining!!!
Oh no one match determines the entire balance of the game!
Do you think that old eruption was balanced just because escaping with 2 was at least a possibility :D?
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@mca240 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483578#Comment_3483578
Amen, thanks for the long but accurate explanation
i need a better way to spend my time 😭
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The TR is not directional. The frequency of the heartbeat only tells you the distance the killer is, not direction.
Freddy's description is a little deceiving, but it makes sense when you realize lullabies and TRs are classified separately. When you think of them as two different things it makes sense to clarify their mechanics.
You are meant mostly to use gamsense to know where the killers coming from. besides most generators have way to reach a loop on any side, and on the ones that dont you can see crossmap clearly.
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nothing is stopping you from just hacking the drones and doing gens. She was gonna find you on that gen anyways if you didnt, more likely you'd be exposed as well. If your soloQ teammates dont then thats a skill issue on their end, not a SM issue.
She should be reworked though thats really all she's good for.
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@ImTheOneWhoChases said:
Unfun? Survivors got DH nerfed more times than they gained a good chase perk in the last few years. Self healing got completely killed for killers. I get that 3% with hope is nice, but hope already was that, that's not the problem with made for this. The problem with made for this is that it gives you free endurance without penalties after you take the hit. You mend, no exhaustion, the perk is still up. That is the problem. Not the 3%. What about bloodpact? What about the team haste perk? The yoichis boon that gives around the same % haste like mft but nobody talks about those? You have exhaustion perks that are extremely op. How is the 3% any kind of problem!
The 3% is absolutely better than any other haste perk in the game. Its not about numbers here, its about consistency. Every other haste perk has massive limitations set on it.
Hope: Must survive until endgame
Blood pact: heal the obsession+stay near them in chase for value (doubling chase pressure)
Power of Two: Stay near them (same issue with blood pact), deactivates on hit, and has a 2m 20s cooldown (for 5% haste)
Dark Theory: 2% is powerful. But you need to place the boon. Chase in that area (which will eventually run out of pallets, unless RNG says theres a totem within range of a TL or something), then you need to go place it again after its broken. Giving the killer slowdown just to get your very limited 2% haste chase extender.
Speed Exhaustion Perks: Very quick bursts of speed that gain major distance. However they are best used for chaining tiles, not extending them. And even then they are one time use in chase.
MFT: 3% haste for being injured.
the killers speed advantage is 15%. You can decrease the speed at which they gain distance on you by 20% since 3 is 20% of 15. Meaning MFT allows you to extend chases by 20% by default against m1 killers. Chase killers also suffer, since the situations their power will be useful will come much fewer and juicers will get like an extra 10s out of each pallet loop.
You might say that its balanced since it requires you to be injured, making it risk/reward. That doesnt apply here. MFT only gives you any value inside a chase, so what is the point of being injured outside of it? There isnt any reward big enough worth staying injured for outside chase. You will get more value from just healing up. If you stay injured the 3% wont extend the chase beyond how long it would be if you had 2 entire health states over 1. Nothing is punishing you for healing, nothing is rewarding for not healing. So you heal, get the chase extension from healthy and MFT. Resilience is different because the 9% speed on gens is impactful enough to be worth staying injured to get value from. If it was just 9% vault speed then you would just heal. The same applies here.
MFT is massive chase extension for free with easy clutch to boot.
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A killer cant hold a 3gen from start to finish if you just break it early. What, you are gonna need to do it later anyway might as well do it now and win. If everyone just sits on gens constantly then the net progress is larger than the regression. And if the killer commits to anyone they lose like half a gen on all 3 if you split up. So thats like 2-3 hooks if you play efficiently. Even soloQ can do this if they know its the best option, and if they dont its a skill issue not an issue with the mechanic.
dead dawg needs better gen spread though, leris too.
Also if we remove 3 genning what is left for the killer to even do?
Playstyles/strategies actively discouraged/punished now or the future
- Tunneling
- Regression sorta
- 3 genning
all you really end up with is hit and run + getting everyone to 2 hooks before killing. And I see survivors complain about how boring hit and run is all the time.
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you need to look away entirely. Looking up can fail sometimes, and looking down is just throwing. Do a 180 and you should be ok, while looking op for extra safety
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483310#Comment_3483310
Agree with almost everything you said except DS. It takes like literally half the stun time to just get off the shoulder and into the run animation, it’s entirely futile against any killer with mobility or range in a vast majority of scenarios. I do agree though that I don’t think it’s absolutely useless like a lot of people do, you can still get a lot of value if you go down near a strong tile like a jungle gym, but IMO I think it should just be reverted back to 5. The perk just feels weak I don’t know how else to say it. OTR just feels like the superior choice in 90% of your games.
I do think it needs buffs. 5 seconds feels like too much to me though, as it did pre 6.1.0. 4s feels good enough to me. OTR is feels like ma better designed perk than 5s DS to me. Its extremely powerful, but it tells the killer you have it. That way plenty of killers might just choose to not bother and go for the unhooker, unlike DS where you might commit to the tunnel just to get slapped with 5s stun. You basically committed to a chase thats now unwinnable, which is fantastic anti tunnel but doesnt really give any wiggle room.
DS should either have 4s stun or a secondary effect, like a 5% bonus speed while its timers active. Or we could remove the 60 timer and have it just deactivate off touching stuff but that could prove problematic.
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DBD matchmakes based on MMR not rank. The rank doesnt mean anything beyond showing how long you've played since month. Sure you'll get some worse players since all newbies start in ash but unless you stay in ash all month it wont be consistent.
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@lav3 said:
In 6.1.0, changed perks were :
- Survivor meta - DH, DS, Iron Will, Spine Chill, Self-Care, Borrowed Time
- Killer meta - Corrupt Intervention, BBQ&C, H:Ruin, Pop, Tinkerer, H:Noed, SH:Pain Res
- Survivor - Botany Knowledge, Calm Spirit, Dark Sense, Deja Vu, Distortion, Hope, Lightweight, Lucky Break, No One Left Behind, Off the Record, Overzealous, Pharmacy, Saboteur, Sole Survivor, Tenacity, WGLF
- Killer - Coulrophobia, Dark Devotion, Eruption, Jolt, Knock Out, Lethal Pursuer, Monstrous Shrine, Overcharge, SH:Gift of Pain, Thanatophobia
About survivor perks, I think DS, Self-Care were hard nerfed.
DS should have 5 seconds of stun duration limited to Obsession.
Self-Care should revert to 50% healing speed but make the perk like current DH.
You can only use SC after unhooking yourself, getting unhooked from teammates.
And after going to into healthy state, the perk deactivates.
Not fond of Botany Knowledge. Calm Spirit, Pharmacy change was a terrible idea.
I'd remove Healing item efficiency penalty and revert old 33% healing item efficiency.
And make 50% healing speed only affect when healing teammates.
Calm Spirit didn't need speed penalty at all and Pharmacy having the condition to be injured is just wrong.
In addition, I hope Pharmacy gives special medkit that is much better than others because medkit rarity doesn't mean that much now.
Ruin nerf was very atrocious.
The perk deactivating after someone dies is enough. I think Ruin should have 150% regression speed in tier 3.
Eruption buff was terrible which enabled 3 gen defence. (Good riddance it lost incapacitated effect later.)
Monstrous Shrine became Scourge Hook and still doesn't have much use.
(I thought there would be an archive challenge like "Hook survivor x times on Scourge Hook" but didn't appear)
Thana was unnecessarily buffed and quickly nerfed to the ground.
2/4/6/20%? I really think Thana should have original value like 6/9/12/15%.
And extra BP gain from BBQ and WGLF were removed.
Very controversial but I hope BBQ/WGLF's BP bonus should have stayed.
BP incentive isn't always given to the role you want to play.
Patch 6.2.0 to 6.5.0 didn't include many perk changes.
There actually were MoM and Blast Mine changes which were unjustified and unneeded.
Glad MoM was reverted and Blast Mine had its required generator progress reduced eventually.
Patch 6.6.0 had Any Means Necessary and Eruption changes.
Any Means no longer had cooldown and I think it was a okay change.
Because of cooldown, you don't notice which pallet was dropped and unbroken sometimes.
Eruption was finally changed after 7~8 months it got buffed.
No longer incapacitate affected survivors and changed the effect to aura reveal.
(The nerf was more extreme in PTB because it had 10% "current" progress, not "total" progress.
At least in live version, it had 10% total losing progress.)
Now it is in weird position but I won't deny this perk solely made solo survivor experience into misery.
Patch 6.7.0 included another meta perk changes.
- Survivor meta - B:Circle of Healing, DH
- Killer meta - SH:Pain Res, Call of Brine, Overchage
- Others - Overzealous, Gearhead
Whether how you think of DH, I think it's fine.
Both Pain Res and CoH became unstable perk.
Might lose Pain Res token for nothing when gen pops before hooking.
Solo survivors lost benefit with CoH and uncommunication will cause no value using it.
Even if they were nerfed and became more complex, I am fine with it and try other perks.
But Call of Brine was massively nerfed. Surprised it didn't get number changes while Pain Res/CoH received.
It should be reworked or retouch the number.
Recent 7.0.0 had Flashbang, Deja Vu, Pop Goest the Weasel buff.
Flashbang no longer requires empty handed, good.
Pop is probably one of the best designed killer perks, which rewards hooking. Nice buff when most regression perks were nerfed.
Deja Vu buff feels unnecessary. I don't think indefinite repair bonus should stay.
Once close generators problems are fixed, I think it should have former effect.
To summarize, the perks I think it should be retouched are :
Survivor - Self-Care, Descive Strike, Botany Knowledge, Calm Spirit, Pharmacy, WGLF, Deja Vu
Killer - BBQ, H:Ruin, SH:Monstrous Shrine, Thanatophobia, Call of Brine
The only perk I don't think it needs buff is Deja Vu.
Others should have some kind of buff, rework or reversal.
Personally hope Borrowed Time might have some changes (because passive Endurance negates BT) too.
6.1.0
DH - Absolutely the best nerf in that update.
DS - I actually liked this nerf. 3s isnt useless contrary to popular belief. I dont think anti tunnel should just make tunneling a complete and total waste of time and instead punish it, which is what OTR and DS do now. I think the stun should be 4s though.
Iron Will - Made tracking in chase much more annoying. Overall a very good perk that needed nerfs. it got gutted though which isnt great...
Spine Chill - Was only meta because soloQ lacked so much info swfs had. With spine chill you would know if the killers in chase, if their coming your way etc. The 6% bonus was only impactful on vaults and with resilience anyways but it defo should have gone. I'd like to see this perks nerf reverted since a lot of its power became basekit.
Self Care - Just rework self care already. it will always be either broken or a complete waste of time.
BT - Became basekit, should have maybe been reworked instead of just nerfed by 2s
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Corrupt - A good change. The value a killer could get from corrupt was gamewinning. Deactivating after you get value was the best decision they could have made for a nerf.
BBQ - just stupid, let me have bp
Ruin - Heavily dislike. one of the few meta perks in dbd that rewarded skill. You only got value from corrupt if you could pressure well, and on top of that it was a hex. You needed undying for it to be consistent, and by then you are dedicating 2 perk slots to one.
PGTW - If were werent tunneling then this perk was balanced. If you were it became a big issue though. An early out AND insane regression. Once/if tunneling becomes a non issue I'd like to see it reverted.
Tinkerer - This only got nerfed because blights were using it with ruin to just deny gens existing. good change overall
Noed - finally can be countered within a minute
Pain Res - Very overtuned perk and needed the change. Info, more info, and great regression is too much for one perk.
Eruption - The buff was way too much but it was in the right direction for the perk. Just way too far in that direction. if it were 25s of genblock and not incap it would have been more bearable, at least you could get a heal off.
Overcharge - Good change, but they should have made it so it couldnt stack with CoB.
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6.7.0
DH - Bad change. It needed changes to give more counterplay not a completely gutting of the perk. Yet somehow its crept its way into the meta thanks to MFT ;-;
PR: Bad change. While I like current PR it didnt need nerfs. It was probably on of their best designed perks. Its still very well designed just less. The issue was with tunneling not the perk itself, and even then it wasnt a huge difference. A tunneler getting a kill at 4 gens is winning, PR isnt gonna change that.
CoB - worst change in that patch. Its got to be the worst regression perk in the game now.
Overcharge - just remove regression stacking and the 3gen meta is gone! why did you have to murder them both?
CoH - good idea on paper but bad in game. The time to go to the boon, even if its not that far, negates most if not all the benefit it provides making it an inconsistent mess of a perk.
Overall the changes improved game health. Gens go a little too fast now though, I think just reverting ruin would be good.
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Use super low sense, really helps with long range shots
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if their getting flashlight saves every 10s, youa re getting a bazillion downs and somehow not facing a wall for any of them.
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idk hes low b tier right now but I dont think he needs buffs. Playing hit and run can be very very effective on him. Maybe he gets like, 20% faster pallet break in cloak basekit to help his chase.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482432#Comment_3482432
DH was far from uncounterable though, like you said on the vast majority of tiles you could easily outplay it as Killer and it was a very interactive perk that encouraged good interactions from both sides. Sure, there were some situations where you and the survivor were just the perfect distance away from each other at a pallet where it would be almost guarenteed to proc, but that was still counterable unlike DH for distance.
It was uncounterable if used at pallets and some powers. I was super interactive at plenty of loops though which was fun.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481844#Comment_3481844
let me fix this real quick:
How to beat legion:
- Have good teammates in soloQ or try to bodyblocking the legion when he already hit you so you can prevent him to chain hits (FF isnt lethal like at all , unlike wesker legion has a massive cooldown when cancelling his power)
- Just pre-drop when you have to play safer and save resources when healthy to use them later when injured.
- Just hold W asap when the legion is coming for you - 10 seconds of frenzy gets countered easily by lithe or SB , even if you get hit you already took the killer away from your team which is huge for gens.
- Never ever finish your mending into the legions TR , thats is like saying "Hey , get a free insta-down on me"
- Try to force a hit-stun on a pallet , you get hit by him BUT he loses his power entirely for the next 20 seconds meaning he becomes a m1 killer with no powers or snowball potential during that time. BUT dont be that meghead that drops everysingle pallet like that wasting resources non-stop for no reason.😅
if you need a map offering to feel safer , idk what to tell you , just learn how to play on other maps and loops.
So basically the counters to legion are as follows
- Hold W
- Hope your teammates actually bodyblock in soloQ
- Be close enough together to bodyblock in soloQ, which is already a mistake against legion
- Pre drop pallets😭
- Try to stun. at least this counterplay is fun and sometimes reliable
- wait to mend so he doesnt get the easy instadown, meaninging no gen progress while in ff you just stand there
Not saying that legion is broken my any means just that his coutners are few and unreliable. Thankfully his power is trash enough it evens out. boring.
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@Annso_x said:
Well, how ? I'm pretty sure this would be impossible to implement, unless you want killers to have to find and interact with dropped items to make them lose charges.
But also, why ? How is it fair that killers can see survivor items in a lobby and decide to bring a perk which renders them useless, but survivors aren't allowed to do anything to prevent / counter it?
I think its because some survivors counter it by just dropping it as they get hit. I think that if they get hit and their items on the floor it starts regressing
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sounds pretty unfun to go against
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481669#Comment_3481669
Uncountable bs and yet it's nerf didn't actually change the way it worked just the frequency of it lol.
I get that you're biased towards Wesker but let's not pretend he's immune to getting nerfed just because he's popular and well liked.
ikr the nerf was just useless. Still just as annoying it just happens less.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482319#Comment_3482319
How can UB deny killer the win? Unless you mean he slugs all 4. Which is its purpose anyway.
If the killer does not slug it does nothing. And if you're left last with another survivor and killer slugs for the 4k 9/10 times you can't deny him his win even if you get value out of UB.
Majority of killers don't slug all 4, so this doesn't counter most killer playstyle. At most it could counter Sadako condemn or Nurse slugging all 4. And you'd probably encounter 1/50 and I'm being generous. UB is a perk that is useless 9/10 for solo survivors and useful in a 4man SWF, since you can drop next to a pellet and have a teammate threaten the killer with a pallet stun to get its increased recovery speed.
With proposed DH changes you don't need to play in a SWF to get use out of it, that's the point. You'd be self-reliant.
Thats exactly how it denies a killer win, thats why it exists? Downing all 4 people would be a win if nobody brought unbreakable. its the ultimate clutch perk, it does nothing beyond that but it can clutch so hard its still worth bringing. It counters the strongest killers in the game, who are amazing at snowballing and have the highest pickrate. Its only really good in high elo because of that, where is blight nurse wesker are constant. It does only get value if they slug yeah but you can completely stop the killer from snowballing.
The proposed DH change is bad. It makes it worthless against the vast majority of the roster, and completely uncounterable for the other. It doesnt matter it its better against stronger killers. This change would just make dead hards annoying aspects be the ENTIRE point of the perk. No killer who would actually be affected by this DH would have almost any way to counter it. So at high mmr every game goes back to being 3 health states. it also removes any skill the perk has. The only times DH is skillful is at windows and deadzones, against M1 hits. this change gets rid of that, make it solely reaction based and unskilled.
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@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482318#Comment_3482318
I'm going to use pre-last-nerf Dead Hard here, where you had a 0.25 sec invulnerability window that was extremely dependent on the Killers ping and was at the mercy of being outplayed by the killer...
Using your logic, if Dead Hard needed looking at because it's pick-rate was high, then Wesker's pick-rate, which is double every other killers pick-rate, would also warrant a looking at. Again, using your logic, Wesker gets a 3 second stun if he misses, Dead Hard leaves you on the ground without any distance gained if you missed or if killer-sided hit validation said you missed.
And yes, Wesker being able to grab you around walls and after you have already been hit is server related, but it still happens a lot. Doesn't really matter the reason, if it happens at least half the time. It's not fun for survivors, like killers found Dead Hard not fun.
Killer-mains set the rules for nerfing Dead Hard, those same rules should apply to stuff on their side also.
The invulnerability was 0.5s, and DH validation guaranteed that almost every single DH would land if it did on your screen. Yes, the killer could outplay DH on the vast majority of tiles and honestly was super fun to play against. But as I mentioned it was a lose-lose at pallets, and was mostly uncounterable when used on killer powers. Like I said the issue with dead hard was those lose lose situations.
Yes, I agree. Wesker has a very high pickrate and thus should be looked at. Look into the reason why something is used and balanced accordingly. If it turns out hes overpreforming, nerf him. That goes for anything in dbd. At the very least they should investigate why things are picked a lot instead of just nerfing them because they are. I really dont think he needs even looking at, the general consensus is that hes that magnum opus of killer design. I'd say the same for something like lithe or adrenaline. Very highly used but I dont think they need any changes.
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Main: Wesker (controversial I know)
Killers I really like playing: Nurse, blight, huntress (pre MFT), Artist, Twins
Killers I sometimes get a kick from: Slinger, Trickster, Oni
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"Go Play Civilization, its a good game." Mathieu Cote, game director, on how unfair the game was for killer. Unhappy with the state of the game? Play something else! Simple!
"Done a pretty good job so far" Mathieu Cote on how well he thought the team had done balancing dbd about 6 years ago. (he was wrong)
"doing gens. You?" This ones funny. This comes from a youtuber who chase the killer for 20 ENTIRE MINUTES while claudette (the only other survivor left) decided generators were not worth her time, and chose instead to hide the whole game. When asked in endgame chat what the hell she was doing, she responded with this iconic line.
"Nea is the entity" A very old meme. Neas model used to be super ugly so people called her the entity.
"Reverse Chainsaw Into A Quentin Hiding in a Corner" The words of Otzdarva when he reverse chainsawed into quentin hiding in a corner. pinnacle of skill.
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Yeah its kinda absurd. If everyone has it endgame is just a loss for the killer. If the gens get down you simply lose the game, its over. You arent catching anyone.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482225#Comment_3482225
And you still don't get use out of then 9/10 games. Why run UB to have a perk 1/10 gameswhen I could run something that is not as niche?
because UB is one of few perks in the game that can completely deny a killers win. Its effect is so incredibly powerful that even though you probably wont get value, it just might even out with that one game you do.
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@Uxoxe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481669#Comment_3481669
Dead Hard's pick rate was also high because it was the most fun perk survivors had. No other perk came close to the ability Dead Hard had to be interactive with the killer and to be able to have counter play to the killer. It was BHVRs biggest mistake to do the last nerf on that perk, it didn't need it.
Now all you do as survivor is do gens and then exit.
But, if you want a comparison to Weskers power, it's pre-nerf Dead Hard. Yeah, killers-players find Wesker fun, but survivors don't enjoy being grabbed around a corner, or after they've vaulted a pallet. At least Dead Hard was validated on the killer side, so you didn't have stuff like that.
Comparing wesker to pre nerf dh is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. dead hard was instant distance with zero counterplay. Instant. Wesker has to actually charge up his power, then not miss the hit. And missing actually punished him. His gets a 3 second stun when his power deactivates. And dont say "but his second token erases mistakes!" Sometimes it does, yeah, but you can still miss that token. And most of the time you get the hit with the second dash with the first setting up for it, so theres no room for error.
Zoning =/= original dead hard. Zoning has charge up, counterplay and cooldown+stun. Dead hard happened instantly with no charge up or cooldown or counterplay. You cant dodge a DH, they still made distance. You cant wait out a DH for distance. Contrarily, you CAN dodge a bound. You CAN outplay him. Not to mention you are gaining distance while hes charged up, so he needs to use bound to injure you.
If it had 0 charge up and 0 endlag it would be old DH. Simply click button, win chase. but its not, it has actual limitations and counterplay set on it to prevent that.
Sidenote dead hard absolutely needed a nerf. Maybe not the one it got, but it definitely needed changes. Sure on vaults and deadzones it was the most interesting and rewarding mindgame in DBD with lots of skill expression... but you just couldnt do anything at pallet loops. Swing? DH. Dont swing? Pallet. Gain distance either way. And even if you didnt know they had DH, they'd still get value from its existence because killers wouldnt lunge at an injured survivor. Because it was extremely easy to just DH it. nothing should remove a whole game mechanic just by existing. Not to mention how braindead easy it was to DH every single killer power. idk what they could have done to it but it needed something.
Yeah people used DH because it was fun, but also because it was so broken. That 30% pickrate isnt enough to warrant a nerf yeah, but it should at least warrant looking to see if it deserves one. Not all highly used perks do ofc but some perks are highly used bc their just busted. I dont think there are any examples ok completely broken perks in the game right now though, except maybe MFT.
Getting strange hits around corners is because the servers are bad, not because he needs nerfs. Thats like saying that survivors should vault faster since killers sometimes get underserved hits because of ping. I could maybe see wesker getting some hit validation, but its really not that big an issue.
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997 on blight, 400 on wesker, 30 on nurse, 150 on huntress, 370 on claudette
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482055#Comment_3482055
There arew many perks that are empty perk slots a lot of the time. See Unbreakable, Deliverance, Soul Guard,, Blastmine/Flashbang vs Lightborn etc.
only 2 of those perks are good.
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get good not weskers fault you cant counter him <3