mecca
mecca
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Survivors never have the kind of drumbeat like killers. Lara doesn't really belong in DBD and I think devs didn't really want her to be. Her entire backstory and history doesn't fit this "survivor is weak and killer is strong". It doesn't make any sense.
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They are not necessarily bad but there's a tremendous disparity in skill floors between killer and survivor that is very unhealthy for a PvP game. It takes little effort to win as killer while survivor you can have hundreds of hours and still not enough because killer can negate survivor skill either through power, perks, or strategy. There's hardly any skill expression to survivor and what little there is extremely hard to acquire for minimal rewards.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746574#Comment_3746574
Define fair game, because old hillbilly wasnt fair either. He was incredibly easy to beat and even if the killer player was really good if survivors brought certain maps or just knew how to loop you were done.
Yes there were some specimens that somehow managed to get 4kd by old billy, which is just...LMAO. I dont think its fair that if a good survivor team versed an usually good billy the billy will lose.
I agree however current billy is incredibly strong, specially against soloQ, who already has trouble against trapless trapper.
Fair as in survivors not dying within 10 seconds of a match. Every match against him is a 4K with 3-5 gens remaining.
Incredibly strong is an understatement.
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@squbax said:
I feel so vindicated when I told people that survivors will start dcing/giving up against billy if he wasnt trash anymore. And people called me delusional and that him being good didnt matter because survivors want to verse fun killers not weak ones necesarily.
Man was I so right at that time, people only enjoyed billy because 9/10 with old billy escaping a chase and dunking on him was very easy.
It's not hard to figure out that people want a fair game. Billy is grossly overturned and after using him a little while you basically never lose. That's a problem in a PvP game imo.
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This is why one player should never be a Power Role or have an insane advantage over the opponents in a PvP video game. It gets abused.
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@Veritere said:
I've stopped caring about it. Pretty much don't play nowadays. Matchmaking is terrible, killers only camp or tunnel and games are so opressive and unbalanced that I can't play more than 3 or 4 matches without going to another game.
Maybe someday they'll finally do something about solo q and I will come back to play regularly. Until then, good luck to everyone else that bothers playing solo only.
This is exactly my sentiment. It's been obvious BHVR doesn't want a fun, fair, and balanced game for "everyone".
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@Toaster427 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739497#Comment_3739497
100 posts about survivors having an awful time in the event, and peanits rushes to respond to the only killer main post crying about the event being too hard….you got to be kidding me…you couldn't be any more one-side biased if you tried man…
I know. It's been proven they only care about the killer experience.
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I believe it is simply a game all about killers which is why it is like that. Survivor is a disposable and killers are an asset.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728484#Comment_3728484
To be very clear, consultants can and do share thoughts on whether or not future changes would be healthy for the game or encourage unfun gameplay. This program in no way is designed to make the game more sweaty or competitive. We receive a wide variety of feedback from it, from balance to fun to how something feels and beyond.
Your game has progressively become more sweaty. You nerf fun things constantly. Who are you listening to cause that then?
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Exactly what this game needs, to become more sweaty and unfun. Bad idea.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726921#Comment_3726921
While this is true in some cases it is not the majority of the time. Yes a team could be winning but the individual survivor will lose on their next down. When they do go down they DC. This can be regardless of being the 3rd hook overall or the 9th hook.
If survivors mainly DC because of losing why do so many DC or take the easy route on first hook of the match? I've even seen it where the killer goes after each survivor evenly and the fourth one to go down DCs.
Explain what mean easy route? The perception of fairness is a massive problem for survivor. A Blight that downs someone immediately when the match starts has already put the killer in a winning position. Why should survivor waste time simply for a guaranteed loss?
Survivors don't have come back mechanics like killers.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726911#Comment_3726911
I believe the example of 4 slugs is an outlier. Most of the DCs I've seen have been at the start of a match or if the survivor is dead on hook and goes down.
When they are obviously losing. People are not leaving when they are winning. That's the problem with ignoring it.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
The killer is supposed to be the power role. Escaping is supposed to be difficult. Any expectation of higher than 40% escape rate is just entitlement, IMHO. There’s a very good reason that the devs set 40% as the target escape rate. Anything above that and killers become punching bags for survivor entertainment, which is what they are against high MMR SWF coordinating on comms.
On the flip side, why should winning as killer have wins handed to them due to imbalance?
I don't think asking for a fair game is entitlement.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726807#Comment_3726807
How about the survivor that DCs before their third hook? What happens if that match was nearly over and the other three happen to escape. That match too gets thrown out. Not every DC match is because a killer slugs every survivor.
I think I can count on one hand how many times I've seen that happen. Using outliers to say we shouldn't count DCs doesn't sound like a good argument.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726686#Comment_3726686
See that's just it. DC's leading to losses for survivors has nothing to do with the game's balance. This is probably why the devs are going for a 60% kill rate, because the hook suicides inflate the kill rates. Even though I do think the kill rate should be closer to 55%.
Also, not sure about others, but I don't get a dc every third game. They are rather rare compared to hook suicides.
I do see that argument brought up, but survivors do generally leave when the match is a certain defeat. For example, Blight has slugged everyone at 5 gens and they start DCing. It was a blowout win for the killer but the match gets thrown out because someone threw in the towel. It really happens a lot. I wish they were counted but I really doubt BHVR wants anyone to know how bad survivors have it.
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@Junylar said:
If your escape rate in soloQ is even remotely near 39%, I must say you are one lucky soloQ survivor.
Since DCs are excluded, the escape rate is infact tremendously lower than 39%. The chances of escape is extremely low. It's very unbalanced.
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@Shuma said:
Well, there are no come back mechanics for survivors. Most times a minor mistake does end the game for survivors. Survivors pretty much have to play close to perfectly or they lose.
It’s like chess, when you know you’ve lost, you forfeit, you don’t keep playing a lost game.Exactly, survivor is a lost cause these days. Unfortunately, the game is somewhat balanced around all four survivors genrushing and the killer playing badly, which is horrible to be honest.
With keys being nerfed, and gens taking so long to repair, so many unloopable killers, it is often difficult for survivors to ever see a winning opportunity. Survivors need a new hope mechanic so every match feels winnable.
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Veerry slowly dying. It's a terrible game to play now and rubberbanding is making it worse because you can be several meters from the killer and he magically rubberbands and hits you.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712131#Comment_3712131
Range killers habe some kind of basekit "nerf" via lullaby - you have advantage - can damage someone from far distance, but also disadvantage - survivors are alerted that you are nearby. Some killers are slower than others.
Why something like this can't be done on high mobility killers? If you have advantage of better map pressure, what is the disadvantage here?
Create several "classes" of killers and give them some advantages or disadvantages.
If killer is high mobility, they can have, for example, slower gen kick speed, slower vault, obscured aura reading after some distance or sth like that.
It's always "boo hoo what about M1 killers :((". Basekit buff them and nerf the strongest.
Also I don't know why killer side don't have some kind of "Exhaustion" effect regarding Gen Regression perks or Aura Reading Perks, so stacking one on top of each other wouldn't be possible - because why killers should have some kind of wallhacks or notrocious perks that could nullify all progress on gen?
I'm kinda tired, because it's the same situation with 6.1.0 (introduced on 19th July 2022) gen regression meta with Eruption. It was changed in 6.6.0 - on 7th March 2023, more than half a year of miserable matches and numerous complaints. Now there is meta with PR/POP, how long we have to wait till there will be normal games again with any hope of escape?
I agree. Blight is so unbalanced and needs more counterplay to offset his insane ability to end chases. No other game would a character be that broken overpowered. There was no thought process for designing killer powers other than the player using it. This is why Blight is so ridiculously overpowered, as well as Skull Merchant being a resident sleeper. Nothing being done about it BTW and here we have a streamer wondering everyone hates playing survivor.
The complaints about M1 killers is about they not an instant win such as Blight, etc. killers have never wanted a fair game. BHVR doesn't either.
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BHVR has made a tremendous mistake is balancing around top performing survivors and very bad killers at the time. The game feels hopeless as survivor because it is extremely unfairly balanced.
I bet nobody can answer this question. Why is it fair that a Blight can down a survivor with lethal pursuer before survivors can even start their objective? Why was the objective requirements for survivors increased? It's almost as if the goal is for survivors to be discouraged from playing. It's not entitlement but the win conditions is not fair.
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Double standards.
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That a game breaking bug is not Killswitched?
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Its not the adrenaline nerf alone but the continuous survivor nerfs. Removing fun from the game for the sake of entitlement killer wins. Just like burning nurse, Wraith, and other killers.
Balancing around SWF but at the same time for very bad killers. This is why the game feels so unfair and survivors don't take the game seriously and/or quiting out of frustration.
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Yeah, I do question the reasoning why he is not Killswitched?
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This looks more like he has no idea how to use Knight. His guards are ideally to help him chase and zone. He only wants to use him for breaking pallets which is bizarre.
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Survivor really should be avoided until the playing field is leveled, if ever. It is very unplayable.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700759#Comment_3700759
The game had the highest number of players ever when the kill rate was 54%. If they had kept the game balanced I believe it would have kept growing instead of declining.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TICHWVA23B7J/dbd-steam-chart-2021.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4BM53PW0T6Y0/dbd-kill-rate-2021.jpg
The game was more fun when it is fair. It's become a game all about killers. Every patch is literally buffing killers and nerfing survivors in some way.
As been said when you remove skill expression then there is no point in playing to improve. Therefore the playerbase shrinking.
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Isnt it the whole point of the game to find survivors and sacrifice them?
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Having a low 3/10 winrate for survivors is a problem. If balance is not fair for both sides where the objective is obtainable equally then you have the problem you say where one side decides the objective is simply not worthy of effort.
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@Sandt1985 said:
I think for the most part, survivors will never be satisfied with this game, because not all survivors are meant to escape trials. 4 man escapes should NEVER be a thing. If it happens, then the killer MASSIVELY misplayed. Some survivors are ALWAYS going to die in trials, so some survivors are always going to be angry. I've made peace with it
4 kills in a match should never be a thing then.
It's funny you mentioned about killers massively misplaying. They can misplay and still win via cheese tactics like camping, tunneling, slugging.
Survivors can never misplay, start the backup plan, and win a match at will.
Survivors pretty much have to play flawlessly, and the killer must be significantly less skilled at the game in order for a killer to actually lose.
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You don't. That's why there is always an incentive to play survivor. The only people playing the game now is a small community of killer mains that's balanced the game where they want it.
The devs are trying to kill their game because they want an excuse to stop supporting it.
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@Hexling said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZQ607A7MHB3W/image.png
Here it goes found it. Any more questions anyone?
Those are inaccurate because the devs have polished them. The kill rates are much higher than that.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694529#Comment_3694529
If you are an average/low skill survivor then of course the game seems killer sided.
As for winning 1000+ games, I agree that should not happen in most scenarios but these are top 1% players playing the S tier killers with the sweatiest builds and against public lobbies that are made up of the average low skill survivor.
You know what breaks these stupid win streaks? Survivors who are in the top 1% because the top level of the game is survivor sided.
I don't really buy into that. What even constitutes a "high MMR survivor"? Considering how survivors are always dying fast, even those with a lot of hours I think we can establish there is not really any skill component to playing survivor. The only deciding factor is how experienced is the killer? Considering how killers can always win, then we can see killers that do lose mean the killer has very low skill (low MMR as you put it).
What ended the killer winstreaks was not some special survivors, it was because the killer actually made too many mistakes.
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Sometimes when things are said so much it is believed, regardless of it is factually false or not. This is the case here.
The true reality is the game is broken in the favor of killers. We have to remember that this is game a killer can win over a thousand times in a row and nobody escapes. That's messed up!
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/410296/how-has-sm-not-been-nerfed-yet
The devs are probably fine with it because the 70% kill rate likely has very little to do with her being OP and is mainly a result of people suiciding on hook
Imagine being a dev and being "ok" with a character consistently defeats 70% of the opponents and the opponents are always giving up because it is so unfair and unfun.
I agree with OP that the dev priorities are very disorganized and lack empathy.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692821#Comment_3692821
And pig had the highest killrate yet she got a rework/buff. Your point is?
Well, that doesn't mean the buff was in good faith. It made no sense to me for pig to be buffed if pig had no problems winning.
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@Astel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692383#Comment_3692383
Are you saying it based on recent BHVR data? Than Nurse must be one of the easiest killer to deal with.
Seriously, Freddy kill rate is high because his pick rate is too low while survivors don't know how to play against him as he is too hard to see. His teleport is one of the weakest power among killer's moving ability. Dream pallet is joke, dream snare is weaker version of Clown bottle and his add-on sucks.
BHVR actually has Freddy listed as one of the strongest killers which could be attributed to him being easy to use or just a little too strong actually. There is so much to look at. How much does a Freddy Main win?
I don't understand the reasoning in saying the teleport being weak. He can literally relocate to any gen which is the survivor objective.
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@Astel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692361#Comment_3692361
And how is that related to Freddy? I cannot find any relevance between your argument between whether Freddy needs buff or not.
My point is that Freddy wins most of his matches and Freddy mains probably do even better. Wanting him buffed despite survivors having a low chance of escaping is just not fair game balancing.
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Killers don't want fair games. Winning most of the matches are not enough.
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They literally balance around low skill killers. Huntress mains basically never lose but for some reason they buffed her.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683719#Comment_3683719
She's both "oppressive" in chase and in macro.
She's a Killer that you pretty much need to SWF against in order to have the coordination to beat.
Her power forces people to play extremely good macro, which is very difficult, and also has no counterplay during the chase. If she puts up a drone at a loop, you HAVE to leave. You also have to prevent her from holding a 3-gen and also from holding dead parts of the map. You need to be aware of resources and plan accordingly.
She's designed to go against 5K hour comp players and lose, but autowin against anyone who dared to play outside of a competitively minded SWF
Thats how I feel The amount of skill required to play her is miniscule compared to what the survivors have to pull off.
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50% so survivor has fair chance of escaping.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683695#Comment_3683695
And that's why he saying it after match AGAINST her? Opinion based on many matches AGAINST her? At least biased comments like this make me laugh, even if there is 0 sense in them.
But it's not facts. Most people find her oppressive and very unfun. She should be changed.
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Ohtufu is only one person. He said an opinion that aligns with killers where the game is only fun for one person. He said no facts.
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@C3Tooth said:
I know stream snipping is breaking the rule.
But a comp team, stacking full meta and strongest item/addon, PLUS stream snipping to make the match tie (at 2K) against comp Blight. Shows there is something wrong with balance.
Yes it does. The devs should be responsible and address it.
The game is losing credibility.
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@xEa said:
Weaving Spiders would actually be an interesting perk, but it seems way to weak.
It takes 120 seconds and it even afflicts the broken status effect for the rest of the trial, so something worthwile would be more reasonable.
What if it finishes one random generator? That would actually be pretty good and would add something to the game, for both sides. But devs are way to scared to give survivors anything decent these days.
This.
It really makes no sense there is so much downside for little reward and a big time sink. It's a detriment to use Weaving Spiders.
Honestly, if Weaving Spiders was a real "Killer Perk" exactly as described, it would be worth using!!!
BHVR really doesn't want survivors to have new perks to use.
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Well said and agree with every single word, at least you had the energy to write it.
Btw, I also played some matches and survivors never won. Never seen any other game that had balance as horrible as DBD. That is so incredibly one sided.
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Massive winstreaks is indicative of a grossly unbalanced game. No other game has such massive winstreaks.
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I think nobody will use the perks outside of memes. They seem to be a trap to make the game easier for killer. Broken the entire game for a measly 10 percent progress when it already seems more "efficient" to work on a gen. Horrible perks once again.
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The big problem here is that killers are not held to your standard whatsoever. If killers refuse to get good, they get buffs. This has been a consistent thing.
Survivors are nerfed from the top. On the other hand, high performing killers are dismissed from all balancing efforts.