mecca
mecca
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- mecca
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I don't think it works that way. No perk or even combo should be so powerful that the opponent must run X to counter. Perks should help you but not game break.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848319#Comment_3848319
Tell me you haven't played the killer or even watched someone else play the killer without telling me. This is probably the buggiest killer they have ever released.
I think that is very overdramatic. Entitled streamers shouldn't set the precedence for balance. It's a new killer therefore they need practice.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848223#Comment_3848223
The number of bugs & design quirks we're working with here is astronomical. Given BHVR's schedule I think it's going to take years for most of them to be addressed.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848302#Comment_3848302
Gaming should be about doing advanced trigonometry where even if you pull off the correct calculation consistently you still don't get the desired result when you should because you're relying solely on BHVR's infamous AI coding & map geometry issues?
ok
That seems to be more of blaming BHVR for the killer not being easy. There is probably bugs but nothing that serious. It's ok to lose when learning a killer. It's not a coding issue.
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They were too worried about the anti-tunneling perk being too strong to think about this one being useless.
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I am not surprised at all. Survivor is always analyzed with a microscope and if it seems inconvenient at all for killers then it gets nerfed.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846107#Comment_3846107
Huge exaggeration. Survivor is surely still playable, a good team can still win even against very good killers, as long as the killer isn't Nurse.
Solo survivors could definitely use some improvements though. And matchmaking could also see some improvements, but that's besides the point of balance.
If you need a perfect team, using discord call outs then the game has serious problems. It's actually an exaggeration to say that is fine.
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That is what happens in a horribly balanced game. Survivor is not playable in 1v4 unless you are a 4 man with no life. This is all thanks to killer mains and the devs following dictation.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842311#Comment_3842311
Yeah I really doubt that nobody enjoys playing survivor. You don't speak for everyone.
Survivor could definitely use some improvements, but this is such an exaggeration considering queue times are generally fine when 2vs8 isn't out.
You can dismiss all you want but even when 2v8 is not out, survivors have the bonus for incentives to play mostly all the time.
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They can't hand cuff people to play survivor, they need to seriously think about making survivor fun and skillful so people are rewarded for their skill. Survivor feels like a waste of time and nobody enjoys it, at least not as much as killer.
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@Vishlumbra said:
Nurse is god like when you have a player that has dedicated time to perfect her. Skill has to be rewarded. A normal nurse is not that bad.
That sounds more like a single player game.
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It makes sense when look how BHVR balances the game, not only do they want killers to be a power role over other players but there is two standards to balancing dead by daylight. One is survivor is designed around all four being experienced and skilled and making no mistakes. On the other hand, killers are balanced assuming the player is extremely bad and making a ton of mistakes. Nurse highlights that clearly. You see this also clearly in the 2v8 mode and why there is overabundance of people wanting to play the easiest and clearly overpowered role. It's basically 1v4 multiplied by two and that is a real mess.
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@smurf said:
I don't think they failed to fix it. There's likely just not a reasonable way to get enough demand among the player base for playing survivor in this mode.
They failed in making survivor fun. Killers are too unbalanced strong and more fun to play and so the devs failed.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841483#Comment_3841483
The point of playing high MMR is so that you can see how people counter you, as I mentioned. Wraith has multiple counters, some of which are even mentioned in this thread.
as for your claims about "full SWF teams that play killer(?)" you're looking for an excuse to dismiss info you don't agree with. Adding a random woe is solo Q comment at the end is not an argument, just a tangent complaint.
Maybe I'm just a terrible survivor with no skill, but hoping a window vault or a pallet is right beside you when he uncloaks doesn't sound like fair counterplay to me. Either he needs a terror radius while cloaked or his lunge needs reduced.
I mean, solo Q is a game mode that should be balanced properly and not dismissed.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841469#Comment_3841469
If you are sprinting as he is uncloaking, your pathing would have to be terrible to get hit, even at close distances. His slow down during the uncloak would put you well out of range of his lunge if you are actually sprinting (SB/Lithe/BL/etc)
Then again you think he's overtuned, so I guess I'd second the above recommendation to play him, climb up to high MMR with him, and take notes on how he gets destroyed so you can use that info as survivor.
Also the implication that only killer mains think he's weak (wonder why they wouldn't know how strong he apparently is?) is pretty broad too, most of the community on both sides generally agree that he is one of the weaker killers (though few would call him the worst.)
Especially in the 2v8 mode, they buffed his movement or uncloak speed. Unless it is server lag, he has managed to hit me every time through sprint burst. Explain why a killer should be able to silently approach a survivor and if injured get an easy down?
You don't balance games with high MMR survivors while also dismissing high MMR killers, which has fundamentally destroyed balance in the game.
The so-called "community" that seems to dictate balance are full SWF teams that play killer. This is why those opinions should be dismissed. It's not even a secret anymore that solo Q is unplayable and it's due to balance.
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He is overturned. You realize quickly something is wrong when he can start uncloaking and he can still manage to hit you through sprint burst. Unless there is a pallet within 6 meters, he will hit you every time. Nobody defends him unless they are killer mains that enjoy free hits all the time.
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@bubbamain_0230 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3840077#Comment_3840077
then play survivor and stop complaining. And you can see how the other side is affected
They won't, killer is the easy role but they want to win 100% of the time. Its much easier to complain to the devs than playing survivor so they'll continue to buff killer and nerf survivors. It has always worked as BHVR is servants to them so it's like a cycle of gratification.
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Its because the devs are extremely bias towards the killer role.
Another example is why are survivors punished for finishing or doing their objective? Killers are rewarded for doing theirs.
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Why would anyone play survivor to crawl on the ground for minutes after a Huntress used an aura and sniped the survivor? They didn't do much to improve survivor gameplay.
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Easy solution is to allow survivors to have quick recovery and basekit unbreakable. But, this is DBD where survivors are not supposed to not have anything. Apparently BHVR still hasn't figured out how to make survivor fun and interactive.
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They won't. Its fun for the power role to perform a flashy kill animation. This is more important than survivor quality of life.
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I think most people missed the point and immediately engaged defense mode for their power role fantasy role.
OP is stating survivor role is unplayable and unfun in a hostile manner. Its understandable.
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Solo Q is bad because people play it. BHVR does not care how unbalanced the game is and will continue to punish survivors and reward killers. Stop supporting a game that is extremely unbalanced where the developers have no interest in it except pay 2 win killers.
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Killer mains demanded to be power role in a video game and the devs have been catering to this overtime which is why you see an onslaught of killers playing to cause as much misery as possible because they have that ability in a very unbalanced game that BHVR seems to be proud of. Its very irresponsible to embrace such balancing and allowing such a form of cyber bullying to exist in a video game.
The only to fix is to reduce the power level of killers, give survivors an actual skill expression so they have actual tools at their disposal (aka basekit unbreakable and decisive strike is a start). Reduce team dependency.
Humping is a form of bullying that should be reportable and banned immediately. Its not playing the game as intended, or is it?
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Theyll never nerf tunneling because it's a game design decision for killers to have a fail safe. Bad killers use tunneling as a way to win. The minute a match seems hard killers will switch to tunneling to win.
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Its BHVR's intention for killer to be elementary level. That's why they buffed aura reading but nerfed the counterplay to it.
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Killers are always high MMR, survivors are always low MMR. So no debate is ever accomplished because BHVR has protected killers in thinking they are always high MMR to maintain power role status in a video game. MMR cannot function without fair balance. MMR killed the game and ruined discussions too.
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Not to recommend as survivor but as killer. None of my friends play anymore due to it being too killer sided.
I feel like the game has lost most survivor players and the only survivors that play are actually killer mains and are acceptance of losing their matches beyond control. I know this from the conversations I always have in endgame. The survivors usually say they are killer mains or disagree with me when I complain that a Blight ended the match at 5 gens. You are NOT ok with this unless you feel like killers should be overpowered. The player population has reduced to only people that do not enjoy survivor at all. It manifested itself in 2v8 which finally made BHVR care when it was finally "killers" that were inconvenience by 30 min wait times. Things only change when the killer community is not happy. Not a game to ever recommend, sadly.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820198#Comment_3820198
So what is your idea of fair? I'm really interested in it.
You say killer is baby mode easy but use outliers using one of the most broken killers with meta builds in pubs to prove your point. Also I hate to break it to you but mmr is an absolute joke in this game you never ever get teams that are equal in skill across the board ever. If mmr actually did work these "streaks" wouldn't exist. The only plus to playing killer over survivor is that you can depend on yourself, where as survivor you can loop the killer for 4 gens and be left on hook because your teammates are crap. Both sides have their respective skill ceilings and both sides have their easy mode depending on who wants to sweat the most and who the RNG favors.
Both sides actually having equal chances of winning, skill matters for actually both sides?
Considering you dismissed claiming as an outlier, which is easily obtainable by anyone signifies you have no serious genuine interest in a fair game.
The reason MMR doesn't work because skill is not important. Survivors don't raise MMR. There is other discussions above mine that mentions it better than me. Survivor is extremely hard while killer is baby mode easy. It's wrong.
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I would never play survivor until the balance is changed. You are nothing more than a punching bag to a power role character in a video game.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820060#Comment_3820060
please look up the definition of the word hypocrite. You say that there’s plenty of evidence that killer is easy and then contradict yourself by saying it doesn’t need to be proven. Yes, it does actually. You make a claim, back it up. You can’t, so instead, you make baseless statements of why you “won’t”. It’s not that you won’t. It’s that you can’t.
The difference is that there is plenty of evidence that killer is baby mode easy, almost every killer that streams wins on a very consistent basis with the try hards practically undefeated, notably the Blight mains that can't lose, in a game with MMR. My claim is proven. You simply are ignoring it because you don't want to accept it. Claiming survivor is easy or too strong is nothing more than a fabrication of lies. If it was so easy, where are the survivors that are undefeated? We have a game designed where survivor skill has no impact on the outcome if the killer knows how to play. The best course of action is to accept the game is flawed and push for BHVR to balance the game so it is fair.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820060#Comment_3820060
Playing survivor is baby mode. There's plenty of evidence to prove it.
See - I can play the same game.
There's no evidence of that to back it up statistically or nobody has had winstreaks comparable to killer mains. The overall consensus is that survivor sucks, survivor is always bribed to play the game due to killer being the baby mode and the overall most fun role to play. There's not a single metric you can point at that favors survivor.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816797#Comment_3816797
LOL just stop. I don't believe this for 1 second. Post some of your gameplay to show us all how it's done. By the way, I have challenged people like you who make these claims many, many times, and very predictably not a single one has responded yet.
There's already plenty of evidence of playing killer is easy. It doesn't have to proven on this forum, not everyone takes the game so seriously to record their matches.
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As a reminder that this is the only game in existence, with MMR that killers can go on long winstreaks without ever losing. Many years of nothing but one sided balancing around horrible skilled killers while expecting survivors to play 100 percent perfectly without any mistakes. Doing gens, looping perfectly, hoping killers will make mistakes. I think the biggest problem that ruined the game is removing skill expression completely from the game so bad killers can win. This is not something you should see in games with MMR, especially. 60% is also not counting disconnections so we know for sure killrates are much higher than advertised.
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Whenever BHVR wakes up, removes flawed MMR that doesn't measure skill (ie. Camping and Tunneling), and removes the tremendous snowball potential for killer. Survivors have no comeback mechanic/skills like killers do. Every match is fair game for killer, with at least a few kills minimum. If survivors can't finish a couple gens before the first hook, it is almost certainly game over. Which is a very flawed game design/balance. Survivors have learned they can't come back hence self sacrifices on the regular basis every other match. Killer priority balancing have ruined fair balance.
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Perhaps I better idea would be to add a comeback mechanic so matches are not hopeless for survivor. DCing is only a problem because it's too easy for killer to steamroll and survivors have no way to win a majority of the time.
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The people that balances are very pro-killer.
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Some things are pay 2 win. It's embarrassing they are not nerfed. Imagine if survivors had an addon to instantly finish a gen? Oh wait ...
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Thats why a video game should never allow a player to be a power role. Balance is very important for health of a game.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3809052#Comment_3809052
If you aren’t winning chases then it really is a skill issue and ragequitting isn’t going to help you get better and win more chases.
Its entirely possible to win chases and survivors already have many second chances with endurance/DS/god pallets etc.You can’t expect the game to be balanced around players who can’t win chases because then it’s unbalanced for those who can.
I don’t think people will be happy until the killer has no agency at all.It’s not the killer you’re screwing over by leaving, it’s the other 3 survivors who just want to play the game as it is.
Top killers have shown that it's not possible to win chases. Pallets are literally useless against the majority of killers, especially if they know what they are doing.
I haven't said anything about killer having no agency but if you think unbiased then you'll see survivors have no agency. I think both sides should have agency.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808798#Comment_3808798
nah, most of the times is just entitlement… if a killer is winning at this point i'll try to do many gens as i can and eventually look for the hatch (i even had some matches that were completely reversed with this mentality)… if people are spineless and won't even try to play at this point it's not a problem about killers being too strong or survivors being too weak…
If you are a killer main, it's what you want to blame it on and say it's entitlement or survivors are just bad but this is not an issue for killer role and not in other PvP games either unless it's very unbalanced. Players are not sticking around if are no winning chances. It's the dev responsibility to address balance issues and ensure players have a sense of objective worth.
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Improve the survivor experience and reduce the power imbalance between killer and survivor and you'll see survivors wanting to stick around. Too many matches are simply unwinnable for the survivors. It's so simple.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807660#Comment_3807660
It wouldn't be allowed if any other company developed this game. You'd maybe manage a 10 winstreak if you were insanely good. You'd be happy about it too. This is the only game i've ever played where winning 30 games in a row is normalized and even considered unimpressive. Never mind almost the entire killer roster having verified winstreaks in the hundreds at a minimum.
Only game for me too. I love it when they say "must be at low MMR". Um, I won 100 matches in a row. A Blight streamer over there won a thousand. MMR is basically non-functional when a game is this unbalanced.
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BHVR balanced the game so bad killers can beat good survivors. I am amazed huge winstreaks are even allowed in a PvP game.
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To prevent standoffs, the hatch should spawn with two survivors and it can be opened if found.
But it'll never happen because the game for whatever fosters this mentality that killers are entitled to a 4K and BHVR supports it. Survivors are not supposed to have a way out.
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Survivor perks are not refunded after they are ruined. I don't think killers are entitled to a refund either. Killers have no experience to this kind of thing and it's very obvious.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800607#Comment_3800607
Only the Skull Merchants that slug and bm on ground right? Thats many players in general. Players in this game are horrible to each other in general. Survivors have received a number of nerf over the years because the game was basicly a survivor playing ground back in the days.
We'll have to agree to disagree. They have went overboard because it's basically a killer playing ground now. I don't know anyone worth their weight that doesn't win a majority of their matches, easily. Balance is horrible.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799843#Comment_3799843
She was nerfed to the ground. They slapped 4 or 5 nerfs on her and called it a day. She was b tier at best. Your reaction to this thread shows me, you’re on the “hate” train of SM and quite honestly it’s no surprise you don’t care if she got nerfed into oblivion.
"Nerfed to the ground"? No, that's actually survivors you are talking about. If you honestly think it's balanced for a killer to get a haste like she got.
If you want to call it hate train. I have no remorse for all the SMs that slugged a team and then humped them on the floor. Knowing she was overpowered and unfun to verse.
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It is quite offensive of them to say considering so many killers slug to BM and allow bleed out. They have no concept of playing as survivor or they wanting to be disrespectful.
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@BlackRose89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799825#Comment_3799825
I think most of us are not complaining that SM is getting nerfed, we complaining that she is being nerfed to heavily with the so-called promise she will fix it in the unknown future. It's like you have a decent size crack in the wall but instead of fixing that crack by filling it in the devs are just use a sledgehammer on the wall and then after pulling a hole in the wall they drop the hammer and turn around to tell us "There the crack is gone, and don't worry we will fix the wall eventually, it just may be two years before we do it".
Her power is bloated, a tiny crack is not the problem though. A responsible dev can't sit and allow a majority of their playerbase to play against a problem. They already made a terrible disservice allowing her to be a problem for soooooo long.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799825#Comment_3799825
I didn't even say that.
If you've seen me talk about SM before, I've asked personally for nerfs to her hindered or haste. I still believe in fair and reasobable nerfs, however, and distortion WAS fairly nerfed because of what survivors did to abuse it.
I do NOT condone intentionally nerfing something to the ground just to change it later, that's my personal beef with the SM changes. It's also why I'm still mad about Call of Brine's nerf.
Don't just assume I'm a diehard SM fan.I don't think she was nerfed to the ground, it's an overreaction.
Being stealthy is abusing a perk?
If we want to talk about unfun play styles, Why are the devs not nerfing Knockout? This is my pet peaves about DBD balancing.