mecca
mecca
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Unlike survivors, BHVR does not balance a killer on high performing, they balance around killers that have no idea how to use the power effectively.
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@StonedHermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891385#Comment_3891385
It's unthinkable that in a competitive online game a win streak of that magnitude is ever possible. It's indicative of a major balancing issue, and you saying it's "luck" is a massive cope. A 100 game win streak should be an almost impossibly rare occurence and something that could only happen with a high amount of skill as well as luck. Over 2000?! GTFO, there's no way to justify that ever happening outside of straight up hacking
Killers want to pretend it doesn't happen much. The people that controls BHVR doesn't want a fair game.
The same so skilled players would never win more than two or three matches in any actually fair and balanced game.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893729#Comment_3893729
If you didn't notice most good killers with slowdown perks are going to 4k their matches. What an argument…
Doesn't change the fact that Xeno has one of worst both kill rates and pick rates, which is not that easy to get. Doesn't sound as something to nerf imo.
Turrents were already a counterplay if you knew what you are doing, this is just trying to fix skill issue by survivors, who don't know where to put them.
Thanks for actually admitting killers have the game completely in their favor.
Whether it is a nerf or buff, it is obvious killers need nerfed all in general.
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To be honest, if killers don't find a survivor within 10 mins, it is a huge tell on the skill of the killer. Devs couldn't make it easier to see, hear, and wallhack survivors in the game. A killer deserves to lose if they can't find someone with all the props in the game.
It is funny to comprehend that "survivors" are punished for evading the unstoppable force as it is simply put.
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Oh no. They are adding the slightest fraction of counterplay, what will killers do?
Xeno players that are good, using the same oppressive builds will still be 4King all their matches.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3893356#Comment_3893356
I do not disagree with this at all. I like the idea of it but I do not think it was fully thought out because yes it is going to cause issues against certain killers and literally punish survivors for using god pallets. I hope it does not go live the way it is.
Honestly, I would have been fine with them mostly keeping KO the way it was, extend the slowdown on recovery and crawl speed and maybe make the aura block 5 seconds that way killers can use it to try and prevent flashlight saves which is what it was MEANT to be used for but it doesn't kill solo q when the aura is only blocked for a few seconds.
I think that would have been a much better direction!
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The elephant in the room is that killer is insanely more easy than survivor. The survivor is most likely fed up losing. Survivor is never been a rewarding experience.
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It tools years to finally change a perk on the killer used solely for griefing.
Now, survivors are punished for using their only deterrent against killers.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891154#Comment_3891154
Spoken like a potato surv.
Yes, killer is generally the power role but a strong SWF is the strongest thing in the game. Without an artificial ruleset like they use in comp, a good, coordinated SWF will almost always win regardless of the killer. A comp level team in public matches is a wrecking machine.
Yes, solo queue is the weakest role in the game by far, and often miserable, but saying that a surv team's only chance is if the killer is trash is nonsense. I have a near 40% escape rate strictly in solo and I'm not even all that great. I've seen some of the stats BHVR sent people where they had a 70-80%+ escape rate (who admitted the play almost exclusively in SWF).
That's not all because of bad killers. Solo sucks, but too many survs seem to just like wallowing in their victim complex.
The fact of the matter is that this game is too messy with variables and imbalance to make blanket statements about one side versus the other, regardless of how much time people spend trying to break it down.
Momo beat SWFs and coordinated ones in his winstreaks exactly like how all other good killers are winning.
Besides, the game should be balanced for solos. Killers shouldn't be able to winstreak. We already know a good killer will always win against solos and that fundamentally shouldn't happen unless the game itself is massively failing, which it is. Survivors are unable to counterplay good killers because the skill ceiling is very small. I still believe in what I said given all the evidence we have. Survivors depends on the killer being terrible at the game to stand a chance. Individual survivors are variables in the game that means nothing for the outcome.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891190#Comment_3891190
Basically the best killer player in the world always wins, therefore all other killer players also always win. Got it
Is he? Just because he is a known streamer doesn't mean he is like the best. There could be hundreds of killers as good as him or better that nobody knows. I feel like that is a disingenuous attempt to justify the OPness of killer. I feel like you would have a different opinion if some random survivor streamer could just own every game and escape every time they wanted to. The truth of the matter is that survivor streamers rarely escape. There is no contest to see who can be a good survivor because the game is that far stacked against survivors. As soon as they see a cracked Blight or any other killer then they just lose.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891154#Comment_3891154
Eh, you could use that same argument towards survivor.
Killer doesn't always win, especially as killer is prone to mistakes just like a team of survivors are. They're just more penalized more than a group of survivors as survivors can afford to make mistakes as there's four of them.
Soloq survivors are another story as yes, them going against a killer with little to no mistakes - they will have a harder time going against a meta build killer or Knock Out slugging killer due to their built in lack of coordination.
A skilled SWF can compete with a killer, as long as they're organized and know beforehand. It's why Momo's streak ended to a comp team that was aware that they were going against him, giving them the advantage over Momo.
It's not so black and white that killer or survivor wins, it's more so centered on who does less mistakes, what builds are used, and the skill set and game sense each has.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted, lmao.
Didn't momo win thousands in a row? Surely you not going to actually sit there and type he didn't verse any good SWF?
Yes, killer will always win. You can play perfectly as survivor but still lose if the killer is good.
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Killer always wins. Survivors require the killer to be very bad at the game to have a chance.
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Survivor role simply sucks. But yes, can't wait for BHVR to come with the pro-killer solution of punishing survivors with treating the symptoms rather than dealing with the actual problems.
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The game has always been anti-survivor and has increasingly more so every year. It's pretty obvious too considering survivor has always had a bonus, a huge 400% too.
Killer will always be easiest role, it would take drastic changes for the game to ever be fair, and BHVR would never do that so killers that want to win 99% of the time.
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885834#Comment_3885834
Dont think that rewards would solve this issue tbh. From my experience most survivors that have this "go next" mentality are survivors that are very high level anyways and have the mindset that the match should be against the killer they want on the map they want and the match should go the way they want from start to finish. You cant really bait these people with BP rewards to stay in the match.
I think this penalty system is a good first step if its constantly monitored and tweaked.
Makes sense. Go next is a symptom of a broken, unbalanced game. High level survivors knowing that and knowing that winning is impossible should never be penalized but learned from. It's like forcing a middle school basketball player to play against Michael Jordan for one hour and locking the doors so he can't leave. At some point people need to open their eyes and use their brains when it comes to these things.
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@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438821/go-next-prevention
I think this is fair. Cause killer cant leave the match without penalty, so survivors also shouldnt, plus i think it would be a good idea if you can try unhook yourself only with specific perks (slippery meat for example).
Killer is basically in control of the match. A single survivor is very helpless with zero control of the match. Big difference.
But yes, in usual fashion, there is little insight or knowledge of why people hate finishing a match. Applying punishments is the easiest way and it screams a lack of understanding. Rewards are much better, smoother balancing. Every match should be winnable for both sides not dictated by what the killer brings or performs.
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Blood points are not enough to get people to play a miserable and very weak role in a video game. Not sure how long this experiment must be done.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885433#Comment_3885433
nice dismissal? Sounds like you are the one dismissing everything shown to push a hardcore us vs. them mentality simply because you are expecting to consistently win with pure casual training for this game
You want to win as killer all the time being bad at the game. You know, you could git gud like some killer mains and literally break the game. Or, somehow does that somehow apply to only one side? Seems like you have a strong Us vs Them rooted intentions. My intentions are simple: a fair game.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885369#Comment_3885369
why don't you pick up a killer, record every match you play and show us how skill is meaningless? You sound like that kind of person who'd say "everyone can do winstreaks" and then loses against most mid teams because "they genrushed".
Momoseventh, holder of the biggest Blight winstreak for example is a long term comp player and the best Blight player in the world. Do you think he would reach even 1/10 of that streak if he was a very average player?
Nice dismissal. You are the kind of person that dismisses all proof that doesn't fit your narrative.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3885281#Comment_3885281
winstreaks made by 0.01% of top players who literally had hardcore comp training and have highest macro game knowledge out of rest of players and are playing against very average players. This isn't a balance issue, this is MMR issue and it will never be fixed because none of yall would want queues to be a minute or two longer so that you could have more accurate matches.
Not to mention that stricter MMR would really shatter egos of majority of this community.
Next time when you or any other person tries talking about winstreaks, make sure you mention whose winstreaks you are talking about
Winstreaks are everywhere. I think some actually got bored after winning thousands in a row and it's actually not done out of boredom. Like, how long does it take to play a thousand matches ? MMR doesn't work when the balance is so broken anyway because how do you even have MMR when skill is meaningless?
Keep pretending there's nothing to it. Survivors that are smart know.
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Its the most unbalanced game in existence. Tryhard killers own the game basically with a leash on the devs to dictate balance.
Survivors know this because nobody wants to play it and those that do either lose or give up. It's really sad.
Meanwhile, killers play the game undefeated with unfathomable win streaks that elitists downplay and tries to pretend they are insignificant.
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The game is very unbalanced, duh. It's never felt fair as survivor, ever. There's also a lot of killers playing together and there's no winning against two killers that are coordinated. Double tapping is the cheesiest thing with no counterplay.
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Survivor is that terrible to play, I'm not surprised.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884769#Comment_3884769
They don't, the mode is survivor sided. Period
If that was true, every one would be wanting to play it.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884651#Comment_3884651
Survivor doesn't need a buff, they need to fix the bots coding in order to make having two ai players acceptable compensation for queue times
Bots and huge incentives wouldn't be needed if the survivors role was fun and skill based.
Saying they don't need buffed is wild.
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Zero survivor buffs btw. Zero new stuff to play with. Giving only blood points is not suddenly going to make survivor so fun people want to play it. This should be figured out by now.
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I mean, is it really a surprise? Survivor side is boring and a meat grinder and BHVR literally did nothing for it but punished further by adding bots. It's like severely nerfing the weakest role with least players.
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No decisions are ever made with survivor fun as a question. It's not important whether mending is fun. The most important thing is playing as Legion is fun because your injuring everyone with no counterplay.
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@CakeDuty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882720#Comment_3882720
Yeah, I don't really understand what they were thinking.. gamemode is already lacking survivors, so instead of catering to them and giving them more classes to choose from… they chose to give 3 new killers for the killer players and nothing for survivor?
Like it's so easy. Make a boon role or something to do with totems to give them some useBoons would have been interesting. BHVR only views this game from the eyes of a killer and it really shows. They could have given Jill a one time use gun or something to stun the killer. So much they could do but OMG "Survivors must be so weak and useless, we can't give them anything". People are not interested in just being steamrolled match after match. It's a shame devs don't understand and then throw in bots which is like pouring salt on a wound.
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I predicted that. You don't give killers all the new content and survivors a middle finger with bots and expect them to play miserable matches. It's another get the heads out of the sand situation.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
I will always prefer bots to actually players, from a survivor basis they actually do gens, go for unhooks, they don't hide in the corner whole match waiting for hatch or follow the killer to try get 1 blind save when killer clearly has light born or suicide on hook. Much prefer bots as teammates.
From the killers basis, bots don't spend ages repeatedly going saves or t bag at every pallet or hide for the hatch. They play the game. If I could get BP and rewards playing custom games with bots I would be playing that lol no hassle, no q times. Bring on the bots
It sounds like you'd rather play a single player game.
Bots don't belong in multiplayer games unless there is serious problems.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882044#Comment_3882044
Did you miss everything Mandy - a dev just said above? ☝🏼
I’m for the bots - and they won’t even be in every lobby. Just if and when it’s needed to assist in queue times for specific lobbies.
That she said everyone on all social platforms said bots was a good idea? Only killer mains wants that so they don't wait 30 minutes in a killer sided game. Queue times are bad because survivors are meat for a grinder.
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Imagine being a dev and being so deaf to their community that they would rather add bots than to make survivor role more fun and rewarding.
It is a first step in changing DBD from a PvP to a PvE game. Killer has always been a balance and fun priority in this game and always will.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874586#Comment_3874586
Tell that to the folks who drop the attitude and overcome the challenge by equipping WGLF, MFT, Bond, Empathy or Exponential. This is one of those 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink' moments.
Perks is not a solution, I only have 4 perks. Besides, I've had unbreakable before and guess what, it's only 1 time. Killer slugs again and now I have a dead perk. Meanwhile, killer can slug indefinitely. See the problem yet?
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874550#Comment_3874550
Shortcuts according to what? The in-game manual says the killer is supposed to do anything in their power to stop the survivors from escaping.
Your made-up rules and ideas about how a killer should play don't mean anything at the end of the day.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KOMS0LKLG8SI/real-game-manual.png
That is all fine if survivors can counter it. They can't.
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Killers at this point feel like they control the game because they can dictate everything and it happens, which is every nerf survivor received whether it was balance or not. Killer streamers win all the time, take shortcuts with broken killers and builds, shortcuts such as tunneling at 5 gens, slugging, etc, and still somehow say the game is survivor sided while they win. BHVR empowers people that want an unbalanced game.
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Many complain but like you said, after a couple years you simply don't complain every time. You just accept the game is very forgiving for killers. It happens with pallets too. It's why you have to predrop and basically never go for the stun. Why? Because you'll usually take the hit and stun too which shows killer is always prioritized.
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Pay 2 Win
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Haha. It's an experiment. Instead of making survivor more appealing by introducing content for survivors to test out, this is the result. Mark my words, bots will eventually be added to the live queue to "help out" with killer queue frustrations.
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This is exactly what killers wanted and BHVR bent over backwards to give what they wanted. It is only common practical sense nobody wants to play survivor when the game is so unbalanced against them.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864492#Comment_3864492
Survivor players don't have skill and opportunity to win? That's news to me
Not with determined killers or if they know how to abuse the power in the game.
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Thats what happens when you make one person a power role in a video game rather than giving both sides the skill and opportunities to be able to win.
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BHVR doesn't care about the survivor experience. As long as killers are happy and winning all their games, everything is hunky dory according to them.
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BHVR is never receiving feedback over the years from solo Q casual survivors. They listen and worship feedback from overplaying killer main streamers that don't play survivor outside their comfort zone. I won't name any names but one streamer cried continuously that medkits are overpowered and guess what? BHVR in usual fashion obliterated them. Now think what happened as a result? This was a nerf to only solo Q. SWF can meet up and still heal. This is one example whereas I can list over numerous examples of how survivors are severely nerfed, specifically solo Q which is now unplayable.
The only way to help this game is for BHVR to stop listening and obeying feedback from people that practically never lose as killer.
Balancing where SWF is a requirement for winning and not allowing survivors to have any kind of skill expression is severely suffocating the game's success. The game is not a killer only game and that mentality needs to drastically change.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863016#Comment_3863016
I’d like to point out that this enduring philosophy as told by DBD killer mains only applies from killer to survivor. It does not work with survivor to killer or survivor to survivor. Survivors are responsible, somehow, for the fun of killers and survivors are also responsible for their own fun. The only people not responsible for anyone’s fun but their own are killers.
Most intelligent reply. BHVR has fostered this with how they've balanced the game as well. Killers are really the only people enjoying the game from both entertainment and winning standpoint.
Bots was never added to support survivors because there was actually a dev patch note where they nerfed them. It was to directly to help killers with their specific achievements, etc.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860993#Comment_3860993
Dude.
You just compared killers playing cheesy to actual cyberbullying - you know, something that has a bodycount?
Survivor quitting en masse was a thing long before 6.1.0. I started…uh, Legion patch, whenever that was and unless you were losing hard, you'd see survivors DC or suicide.
Survivors quitting has always been a thing but it's only getting worse as times go by. Killers have power creep while survivors are continuously nerfed. Maps reduced to be auto wins for killer. I could go on but I think I made the point.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860711#Comment_3860711
ahh yeah, unsportsmanlike conduct on your side = devs bad, while unsportsmanlike conduct on opponent side = opponent and devs bad, it's never a "you" problem, it's always an "others" problem
If the game was fixed both issues would go away. Yes, that is the devs fault.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860457#Comment_3860457
mind you, BHVR is openly defending people who grief their teams by going next on hook and never punishes them, let's just not push us vs. them war where shouldn't.
That's a bad comparison. People letting go is a representative of how terrible survivor gameplay has become from terrible balance. Killers are preventing survivors from playing the game which is griefing. It's essentially cyber bullying.
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BHVR dismisses killer behavior, simple as that.
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Its a vicious cycle. SWF will troll killers and make them mean. Killers will abuse innocent survivors and causes them to do the same. I don't see a way to fix that unfortunately unless you remove strong things from survivors such flashlights or perks that synergizes with coordination. Survivors being able to stand up will remove the bleed out grieving.