mecca
mecca
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799813#Comment_3799813
Normal gameplay is not holding the game hostage for 20 minutes by hiding and avoiding the generators. That's why it's getting nerfed.
And dead hard got nerfed because it guaranteed safety too often.And why are we bringing up double standards when the discussion is what distortion does? Did we all suddenly change our minds on every other issue? No.
You are welcome to look up what Double Standards means. You are complaining that Skull Merchant is finally nerfed, yet justifying the obliteration of Distortion as fine and dandy. In reality, nerfing distortion is incredibly more impactful as now a huge percentage of killer perks and add-ons have zero counterplay.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799703#Comment_3799703
That's a horrible excuse, sorry.
Distortion got changed because of survivors not participating in normal gameplay and going full stealth. And before you bring up 'But killer-' I also think the perk Eruption needed changes too because of the unhealthy way it stalled the game before the 3 gen changes.
SM's current iteration is not impossible to face, nor gives her free wins against teams who try against her. SM's only crime is 'boring' and left over complaints about her release state. I can play no drone SM and people still throw on hook at first sight, the stigma is that bad.
It does not excuse nerfs to this degree. BHVR should have focused on the rework over this if it was that big of a problem to them.What is normal gameplay? Just because someone is not conforming to expectations does not mean it is not good. It's true that most survivors can't last longer than 10 seconds before dying. Removing a play style is removing accessibility. Killers have many play styles, which can be abused btw, the double standards are absurd here.
And let's be perfectly clear, using distortion to do gens (objective) and avoid the killer is exactly what the game is basically about. Not everyone wants a frequent aura read and be chased all the time.
Wasn't Dead Hard's nerf based on killer complaining that it was boring? It didn't win games. Skull Merchant does. I don't see a problem with Skull Merchant being nerfed. They can't leave her like it was until a rework.
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Killers need to be big boys. Killers should not be immune to nerfs. Skull Merchant was totally unfun to verse and was overpowered at the same time.
Distortion was completely obliterated. These things happen on a continual basis for survivor and are conditioned to it.
Skull Merchant is still playable. And if you actually try, I bet you will still win a majority of your matches easily. This is simply because the game favors killer that much.
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Its obvious some people like Lights Out and I think it is good they change things like adding the candelabras, giving survivors extended endurance after an unhook. Usually I am very critical of the devs but they deserve credit for keeping the game fresh with different modes. I'm definitely not a programmer but I assume they have these modes saved and they can bring these back throughout the year.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799037#Comment_3799037
With how I imagine this would work, Skull Merchant as we know her would be, in practice, completely removed and replaced by a new character. This would include her power, which could be different to the point where there have very little in common, her lore would be changed, her skins would be changed...
If they only want to rework her power, then fine, keep her in. But this could be a great opportunity to fix mistakes that cannot be changed otherwise.
To summarize, the reason I want her removed and re-released, is because it would allow for changes far beyond the normal rework boundaries.
Also, it would keep the complaints minimal since you can't be angry at something that doesn't exist.
It seems like they could still update her power so it is fun and fair for both sides without having to go so extreme. They kind of having the idea now, removing haste that wasn't necessary. Killers complained about MFT, yet Skull Merchant did that on steroids. Area denial is just not fun either.
Perks are completely changed all the time but they have the same name.
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Survivors are not compensated when they are nerfed. Self Care, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Circle of Healing were all nerfed into uselessness in most cases. No compensation to survivors that likes to use them.
I think killers are not used to being on the other end.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797597#Comment_3797597
Survivors have plenty of perks to see the killers aura as well. One of those is actually getting buffed to become almost like survivors lethal pursuer. Use those if you are that scared of encountering the killer.
Killer seeing survivor auras is more beneficial.
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It should have never took so long to nerf this killer. My only complaint is her easy ability to enable undetectable. If she can still do that, it needs nerfing. The terror radius is basic game mechanics of the game (counterplay)
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Game balance is anti-survivor so this should be expected. Killers are the only people winning and enjoying the game to the fullest hence game incentives.
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@ChaosWam said:
I see it swap every once in awhile depending on the time of day, in whatever server I'm in.
Also.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795059#Comment_3795059
Gonna put on my thinking cap for a second. Why would 2v8, the first game mode after 8 years where we can play 2 killers at the same time with a friend, have the bonus on survivor side?
To be fair, playing with 8 survivors was also equally a new experience.
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During 8v2, even 400%. was not enough. Maybe more killers need buffed.
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@WolfyWood said:
It's partly BHVR's fault for pushing the power role narrative.
You now have a sizeable chunk of killer players who honestly believe they should win 90% of their matches and the remaining 10% should be due to intentionally losing.
These same people hate being outplayed and survivor gameplay is heavily scrutinized, discredited, and reduced to being spacebar and W-key only.
You have people here openly and proudly admitting to playing emotionally and spitefully while being cheered on.
This forum and reddit are killer sided though and largely an echo chamber, cause whiny survivors exist too but are mostly on Twitter or talking to their swf friends.
The solution is to not take these people seriously.
Every single word.
This won't ever change until there's a completely new dev team that can understand both sides rather pushing the Power Role narrative.
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Killers are simply too strong against solo.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793501#Comment_3793501
Huh? Genuinely not my experience as Survivor. No, not even in SoloQ… then again, I run antitunnel and do my best to loop well, so I just don't have this issue much. It's the exception I get tunneled, camped, or quick-4ked, not the rule.
I play as much Survivor as Killer before you even ask. I play both SoloQ and SWF, though more often at least partial SWF. Everyone I know feels similar and is similar. This issue is way, way, way overblown.
Outside the small circle of killer mains, it is not perceived overblown. It is a real balance issue. Literally everyone I knew quit playing due to imbalances.
I believe your experience is definitely a minority.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792807#Comment_3792807
I know there are Killer mains who act like victims too. But man are the forums flooded with survivors acting like victims over every single thing lately.
All it takes is playing 10 rounds of survivor, especially solo q, and when you see camping, tunneling, and 9 out of 10 matches ending quickly with an 4K win, it's understandable why so many survivors complaining.
After all, survivors always have the bonus to play the game which certifies an imbalance at play.
I think there would be more complaints than they are but the community has a tendency to shame and throw their arms up to say "survivors are just bad" but that is not the problem.
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Despite the rhetoric from killers, it is a false prophecy that killers camp and tunnel because it's necessary. The truth here is that it is an overpowered strategy, an exploit of design for an unfair advantage over an opponent.
I believe there's been winstreaks and experiments where killers can win hundreds and thousands of matches without losing and this by nature of probability must be against experienced teams too. Essentially abusing this exploit to guarantee wins. It's sad gamers defend this but I can say BHVR is controlled and this is how the game caters to, twitch streamers to showcase their skill in game, which is more essentially putting their opponents at an unfair disadvantage.
Imagine if there was a god loop a survivor could beat killers over and over without ever losing? BHVR would fix it immediately.
Generally speaking, the effort and skill required to camp and tunnel is minute compared to what it takes for survivors to win against it.
We should be promoting fun and fairness in a video game not embracing overpowered tactics.
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Two primary reasons:
- Double standards balancing. The balanacing has been weirdly done to require infinitely more skill and experience for survivors than for killer. If you do notice carefully, survivors are always nerfed around top performance SWF while killers are buffed for extremely low skill (ie. Buffing Huntress, Nemesis, extending gen times, slowdown perks, etc)
- Counterplay to killers are either harder to counter than killers to use, or non-existent. BHVR has slowly removed and almost removed skill expression.
There is always a survivor bonus because this role is simply not fun when skill expansion is non-existent. It's a little intriguing how the game is still popular due to this.
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@Doxie said:
I feel like a broken record... When you realize this game...and this forum are just killer sided... It will make things easier for you. Switch to killer. I did and this game becomes easy. It's that simple
So true. The playerbase is at fault for enduring a dead end for subjecting oneself to play survivor. As far as entertainment, this game is only worth playing a few easy laid back games of killer and then leaving to play something else. Survivor is a losing battle not only in game, but with community and BHVR.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786437#Comment_3786437
The devs have stated time and time again, and I think they are exhausted with saying it, but they don't favor one side.
Actions speak louder than words.
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Unfortunately, that's a side effect of over buffing killer and caring more about making sure killer have a high killrate, ensuring they are a power role over match quality and removing skill expansion from survivors. Whenever you ensure killers win a majority even against competent survivors you can't expect people to take the game seriously anymore.
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The game is so horribly balanced where it seems like survivors lose regardless, people don't try anymore.
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Huntress is a wonderful example of how BHVR blatantly balances for new killers and experienced survivors. A double standards approach to balancing is why the game is very insufferable as survivor.
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@EvilTwin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783157#Comment_3783157
the game is honestly in it’s most balanced state it’s ever been in. Bhvr favoring killer mains is simply not true, just look at how many killers have gotten nerfed and reworked thanks to survivors hating them. All the anti camp/tunnel plus all the info you get in the UI is a huge buff for survivors.
They buff and nerf stuff for both sides that they think is problematic. I do miss old dbd though, both sides had OP stuff, perhaps it’s just nostalgic speaking but the game was more fun back then.The only people that think the game is fair are in fact killer mains. They are enjoying a very easy game to win at and will defend that at all costs and claim "survivors are bad". It would be funny if survivors actually had a big advantage in their favor and killers giving up every other match and all the survivors claiming killers are all bad at the game. BHVR would waste no time in resolving that problem.
It was probably more fun because both sides had a fairer chance and it made the game feel better. Unbalanced games are simply unfun. There's no question about that.
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He didn't 4K every game. That means more killer buffs on the way.
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@lifestylee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781796#Comment_3781796
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vaR-9_Vjp3s&t=278s&pp=ygUVSGVucyAzMzMgbm8gdHVubmVsaW5n
Hens playing as trapper not using his power, not tunneling/camping and getting a 90% winrate i believe.
Others streamers tried this too with similar results.
I know he and maybe some other streamers are gonna be outliers in terms of skill but its not that its impossible to do.
BHVR balances for really bad killers. Most knows the game is broken once killer has a little experience.
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@oliviaa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3779297#Comment_3779297
girl be for real i'm a 5k hour survivor main that never plays killer and the game is not killer sided in the slightest unless if you are lower mmr solo queue and what percentage of the game is that lol
but you're right in every other aspect. there SHOULD be changes to make the game more tolerable for solo survivors it is absolutely abysmal unless if you are at the higher end of mmr where you know your teammates are at least competent at looping for a minute and will get you before 2nd hook. it's just a mess
Are you playing SWF? You said solo is bad, well that implies killers are too strong. 5K hours but your skill means nothing unless you are in your favorite SWF. The skill floor is not attainable to play the game because you need the killer to be horrible at the game and the survivors to be 5K hours. It's a mess alright.
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Its very understandable why survivors are rage quitting. The game is too stacked in killer favor.
Players should quit if they are unhappy because it's the only way BHVR will improve survivor gameplay and balance. Playing DBD because you are addicted to what? Suffering? That literally makes no sense. If a game is very unbalanced you play something more rewarding for your time invested. A proper game makes you feel rewarded, not to suffer for it.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3778573#Comment_3778573
And that's why you have Z E R O rights to complain about soloq, because you and players like you are the biggest soloq problem. Survivors ARE team and if you have so many comments and still don't understand it, that says a lot.
Survivors are a single organism consisting of 4 organs, each of which must do as much as possible to achieve a result. There is no same goal for every single player, there is only one common goal for all. How do you expect to win, if you are the only one who trying? Exactly, there is no way, because there is no such thing as "my escape" or "his/her escape", every member do his best and buy time and maximize chance to escape to team.
And it's really funny you considering hatch or gates after hatch as a "goal", because it's shame to count it as a win. Killer obviously already won the match and if he really wanted to 4k, other teammate would have been slugged and you most likely won't even reach that point. That's why I will be proud of myself, if I give to killer great chase and 3 survivors will escape because of me, even If I won't, and seems like you will be proud yourself if you will equip Left Behind and Distortion, hide whole game and take this pity hatch as it something you hard worked for and deserved.
And yeah, if there is no real argument, just say it, there is no need to attribute "anti-survivor" to me.Your wall of text can be easily proven wrong with a very short sentence: survivor loses and their MMR decreases even if the other 3 escape. It's a 1v1v1v1v1v1.
The entire game has fallen apart because it's balanced around perfect harmony of the 4 survivors yet they are all individually punished and the killer is rewarded unfairly because of.
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Focusing almost all energy on one side of the game is not really doing a good job. Sorry. It's actually a weird thing to do, as a developer.
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Fun for killers. That's why it was extended.
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The game has so many dead ends for survivor where there is no win opportunity. This is either through perks or game design. It's not about skill.
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Definitely No. It's not a game actually, it is a survivor abusing experience. It's fun as killer but it's boring of how easy it is. You are forced to not play because of the extreme imbalances and survivor is very much like going to the dentist or rubbing sand in your eyes. It's terrible and that shows very much in the queues.
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The game is certainly unattractive to new survivor players due to the difficulties. Everyone I've ever asked to play say survivor is impossible. Even as a new player you can usually win as killer which is a stark contrast. New player struggles against an effective SWF but that's about it. BHVR needs to make survivor easier.
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Most people have a very bad taste in their mouth surrounding the survivor mode. Something should happen to drastically shake up how to play survivor instead of only being able to run 10 meters with no counterplay against two killers tag teaming.
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800% doesn't help if it's grossly unbalanced or unfun. There's no skill expression to play as survivor. I have said for a long time that it is what is suffocating DBD. 2v8 amplifies the problem: survivor is too weak and unfun.
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Two players will have fun while eight do not. That'll have a big impact on queues because you need four times as many players.
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It should honestly become a "feature" granted the epidemic of tunneling and the near 100% impossibility of that 2 or 3 survivors will finish more than two gens. Killers really have no idea what it's like to be at a disadvantage.
Its really not a world ending situation if one survivor escapes because of a bug.
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Anytime a particular role has a tremendous disadvantage will there be a lack of motivation. The problem is it causes you to feel your skill and the effort is meaningless. A game should always be about who is the most skilled, the one putting the most effort. When effort and skill doesn't yield an advantage then you have a spiraling out of control situation where people simply find playing the game is pointless.
A very low skill floor for killer and very high one for survivor is unhealthy. BHVR has failed miserably in making the game fair for all levels of play.
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The problem is simple: the game is too unbalanced and it's too much decided in the first minute. While killers have the luxury of coming back from bad starts, survivors don't. If a Blight has downed several before a single Gen is completed, survivors can't win.
The killrates are too high. Survivors often go matches after match facing the same inevitable loss. In essence: there is not much skill expression for survivors to control the outcome. So the whole problem is the game feels unwinnable because it often is.
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Very telling....
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Its simply a killer sided ego game really. 60% feels terrible and we know it is much higher because your argument is correct in that survivors DC when they are losing, on the last hook, etc. it is speculated these are removed to hide the imbalance as much as possible. The killrate is probably close to 80% because this is what it feels like whenever you play or even watch. Actually, when you watch, killer mains win like 90% or more. There is no hiding at this point how terrible the balance is. The only hope is for the devs to actually be honest and try to make the game more fair.
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I think it is a phenomenon that survivors are not good debaters, and probably not thinking it is worth the effort to fight to improve the game. Killers do gang up on survivors to silence and intimidate (ie. you are low MMR). Since the devs continue to ruin the game for survivors and buff killers, I am not surprised survivors are simply disengaged.
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The only thing broken in the game is the massive imbalance between killer and survivor. A killer that knows how to play breaks the game.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3755399#Comment_3755399
Denying the hatch escape is somehow unnecessary huh, I didn't know actually going for the best result will be considered unnecessary in the PvP games
But it leaves no opportunity for survivor to win.
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With how the game is now, killers are too effective and survivor is error prone and sensitive to rng. A killer that has experience allows no mistakes for survivor and can snowball very effective. A major flaw plaguing survivors is they have no way to recover from slow start for their objective. Killers have the game design heavily in their favor: they can slug, use powerful endgame perks, or trick survivors to recover and win at the end even if they didn't get a single hook.
Survivors need incentives to stay. Why do gens still repair slowly when someone dies with many gens remaining? Why can the hatch not be a way to escape using a key? If someone dies, gens could repair 33% faster for example. Why not give survivors basekit unbreakable if a killer slugs unnecessarily such as abusing and denying the hatch escape. There is so many things that can be done.
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Billy is a good example of the balancing philosophy of lowering the skill floor of killer without doing the same for survivor. It's what is destroying the game.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3754544#Comment_3754544
Shouldn't your argument apply to Hen's matches since he's playing solo queue as well though? He managed to boost his team's escape rate by 50%, which is very significant.
I believe the playing better argument is still applicable here since if your team played better, the gens would have been done. If you loop the killer for 20 minutes and your team doesn't finish the gens, it's more reasonable to blame your team at that point.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3754560#Comment_3754560
That isn't a problem specific to tunnelling. If the killer isn't tunnelling and your team doesn't do gens, you would have the same problem.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3754576#Comment_3754576
Saying tunneling doesn't happen much is like saying cheaters do not cheat much.
Cheaters are extremely rare though? They probably occur once every 500-1000 matches.
Tunneling is essentially an exploit of game design for a huge tactical advantage
It isn't an exploit. BHVR has already acknowledged tunnelling as a legitimate strategy and has no intention of treating it as an exploit.
It's easy for killer to tunnel but impossible to counterplay it.
Can you explain what's happening here then? If it's impossible to counterplay, why are 3-4 survivors escaping when the killer is hard tunnelling?
My point is that cheating feels bad and regardless of how much it happens it shouldn't be ignored.
Because the devs are ok with it doesn't mean it is automatically fair and balanced. There is a disconnect with fairness, it's a killer favored game hence why survivor has been an unplayable way to play for a long time. Tunneling is one of the reasons.
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Saying tunneling doesn't happen much is like saying cheaters do not cheat much.
At the end of the day regardless, both acts is horrible to play with. Tunneling is essentially an exploit of game design for a huge tactical advantage. It's easy for killer to tunnel but impossible to counterplay it.
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After watching Dev and community reactions to survivors complaining about the game being unbalanced and unfun, I believe the only way to improve the game is stop playing until changes are made. There is a notable lack of empathy about this constant complaint and I find that very concerning. Survivors are addicted to the game regardless of and that is being taken advantage of. For the sake of mental well-being and for to have better success at reaching the devs attention, seriously stop playing the game.
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Everyone knows survivor is unplayable except the devs it seems. There is a valid reason killer always has a matchmaking incentive, and survivors are either getting trolled on and losing or survivors are giving up due to imbalances. It's a sad trainwreck.