lettuchia
lettuchia
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939338#Comment_3939338
skillful how? i just want some nerfs reverted even if they keep her from seeing aura boxes just to prevent her from bodyblocking boxes
Not be abusable to guarantee a kill and have more risk
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939283#Comment_3939283
Well you can buts its same mentality as just wait to bleed out when sluged it will take only 4 minutes. Killer can force survivors out but its pointles when gates are open and timer is running, just waisting killers time if he wants to move on, same issue if last surv standing is lugged and waiting for killer to miri him, dont you think?
For killer its 30 seconds and is interactive, for survs its 4 minutes of doing absolutely nothing, pretty clearly not the same
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939274#Comment_3939274
my point is all she need is her traps buffed
If they make them skillful to use, sure
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@Reinami said:
I shouldn't have to sit and watch survivors teabag me.
Then force them out.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939162#Comment_3939162
they nerfed pigs traps into the ground she did have slowdown when she caught someone
Your point?
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@EbrietasCosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939237#Comment_3939237
Unknown exist. Or not.
Unknown can't really do that, he can't aim straight up and uvx is programmed to go further horizontally the higher up u look regardless of real life physics
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"No new gameplay mechanic" he can quite literally hit over tall loops with arc shots, that right there is a new mechanic
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@UndeddJester said:
Correction: little to no mechanical skill expression.
A killer like Blight, Billy or Nurse has little to no macro or mind game skill expression because their powers fundamentally allow the killer to subvert these elements of the game and brute force hits once their tile knowledge is good enough... all that's left is the accuracy of their inputs.
Pig and Myers cannot do the same and thus must rely far more on macro and mind games to function, which of course falls short against Survivors of a comparable level of macro/mind game knowledge, usually only going these killers way if they make an incredible series of insane reads/lucky gambles.
Not everyone wants their mouse accuracy and their skill at using the 1 trick strengths of a killers dash powers at subverting looping to be the only skill elements of their game. Some of us actually enjoy m1 mind games and trying to read the trial to effectively create pressure... even if it isn't as strong.
Different types of powers are a good thing, otherwise every killer just becomes generic dash, generic map mobility, generic detection, generic hit over tile killer number 24.
Saying that blight and nurse can subvert the skillful elements of the game is factually incorrect. This is only the case against bad survivors, but against good survivors blight and nurse take plenty of skill to actually get results, that's what makes them strong. (sadly this isn't fully the case for blight really because of momo tech, but remove that and blight is great, compared to pig/myers who need entirely new powers to be well designed)
Meanwhile pig and myers don't have any skillful elements that other killers don't have, they don't have to rely more on macro and mindgames to "function" because they're not going to win vs good players regardless of what they do.
There's nothing wrong with skillful powers other than dash powers, pre-rework singularity for example, vecna, unknown, springtrap, knight to an extent, but pig and myers and plenty of other "m1 killers" do not have any uniquely skillful elements. Weak killer =/= skill expressive killer
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Pig and myers are hopelessly and inherently flawed killers with little to no skill expression, thank goodness for not seeing them often, let's keep it that way
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@francesinhalover said:
First of all i'm not a killer main and i lose 99% of the time vs xenomorph, but it's crazy how springtrap has the same gameplay and is 1000x stronger.
this is something i read and it was just …wow
Springtrap is literally just a better xenomorph now.
He has basically the same map traversal as xeno except: he doesn't have to navigate tunnels, gets undetectable and can instagrab people with it, the "disadvantage" of survivors being able to spot him is laughable considering the fact that he can just go back in and teleport somewhere else and good luck consistently using the doors for yourself since you run the risk of being grabbed every time.
Springtraps axe is just superior to xenos tail in every regard.
shortest ranged attack in the game (4.8m) can't be wound up and held to aim, low fov and can't go over higher loops that taller killers can.power can be taken away from you at any point in the match.double turrets and elevated turrets have no counterplay whatsoever turrets always have to be prioritised over hitting survivors or you lose power while they run to a safe tile. Turrets also let survivors know you're coming from a mile away
The ultimate lifeform.
I would say tho, my opinion here, vs good survivors perhaps the transportation + spotting you on cams can be really strong vs springtrap. there's risk… but how high is it trully???? What you guys think?
"can't be wound up and held to aim" that is quite literally a benefit for anyone except ppl that crutch on holding their power to make aiming free, if you wanna compare springtrap to anyone, huntress is right there
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3935068#Comment_3935068
I think you're oversimplifying The Dredge’s design. While hit-and-run is a viable strategy for him, his Nightfall mechanic and locker teleportation create a unique pressure dynamic that Survivors have to actively manage. The idea that he has 'nothing else going for him' ignores the map control, lockdown potential, and vision-based pressure that define his kit.
Reworking him wouldn’t require a full replacement of his power -- it would need refinements to Nightfall, potential adjustments to teleport mechanics, or better synergy between his abilities. Many Killers have received adjustments without needing a full redesign.
As for Nurse -- her Blink quite literally bypasses every traversal limitation in the game. Saying she has 'the worst mobility' is objectively incorrect. If anything, her mobility is too strong, which is why she’s considered the highest skill-ceiling Killer in the game.
Edit: this is not an advocacy to render Nurse's mobility useless, but to say Nurse has the worst mobility in the game and that Dredge has better mobility is wild. Nurse can close the distance in a chase as she bypasses pallets rendering them useless, while Dredge is more of an anchor by placing remnants down and forcing the survivor away from a loop entirely.
Pressure =/= Skill
Similar elements to other killers =/= Skill
Capitalizing on limiting Survivor information is not a valid design choice
Putting nurse's mobility on par with the likes of blight/billy/dracula/dredge/etc, saying that what little mobility she has is what makes her strong, and saying that she's the strongest killer in the game at high level play are all objectively wrong as well. Do the math or stop making objectively false statements
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3935068#Comment_3935068
I think you're oversimplifying The Dredge’s design. While hit-and-run is a viable strategy for him, his Nightfall mechanic and locker teleportation create a unique pressure dynamic that Survivors have to actively manage. The idea that he has 'nothing else going for him' ignores the map control, lockdown potential, and vision-based pressure that define his kit.
Reworking him wouldn’t require a full replacement of his power -- it would need refinements to Nightfall, potential adjustments to teleport mechanics, or better synergy between his abilities. Many Killers have received adjustments without needing a full redesign.
As for Nurse -- her Blink quite literally bypasses every traversal limitation in the game. Saying she has 'the worst mobility' is objectively incorrect. If anything, her mobility is too strong, which is why she’s considered the highest skill-ceiling Killer in the game.
None of the things you mentioned are healthy or skillful parts of him. Map control could be fine but it's not a defining feature whatsoever when plenty killers have mobility, lockdown potential? I sincerely don't know what you could be referring to other than 3 genning, and his "vision-based pressure" is such a joke of game design as it purely gets value from Survivor's lack of information which is completely skill-less.
If you actually do the math with the distance gained from blinking across the map it is equivalent to something around a 4.4 killer, maybe even slower, I don't remember exactly but it's definitely worse than just walking as a 4.6, thinking otherwise is ACTUALLY objectively incorrect.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930691#Comment_3930691
Even though I do not play hit-and-run Dredge, Dredge suffers from mobility like other high-end mobility killers - (Kaneki, Blight, Billy, Nurse, etc).
Additionally, a Dredge's mobility comes from teleporting to a locker that they may or may not get a disadvantage for doing. Sometimes the lockers are not near key objectives, meaning the Dredge will have to waltz over and wait for their ability to go on cooldown to teleport again.
I am just wondering why Dredge, someone you advocated for removing because they're easy and lazy to play due to their mobility is an issue - but not the other killers that perform much better than Dredge (barring Nurse)?
Because dredge has nearly nothing else going for him besides hit and run and a low skill floor chase power, there's almost no possible way to make him well designed without a new power entirely, whereas the killer you mentioned very well can be changed to be more healthy and already have well designed chase powers for the most part. Also Nurse quite literally has the worst mobility in the game.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3933453#Comment_3933453
The problem there is that realistically only 3 of vecna's powers can actually land a hit in a loop, and even then its really only 2, and even then its really only mage hand because the projectile is hot garbage.
Like I said, buff the spells not the cooldowns
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3933324#Comment_3933324
I mean yeah he is. his ability has a good amount of counterplay. The same should go for Lich if you ask me. In fact, I just read the patch notes, and Mage Hand might be a tad too strong now.
But I think it's good that the cooldowns are all being decreased by 5 seconds, means more interaction with the spells.
Wesker is considered fun to go against despite being balanced around an 11 second cd (which I think you'll agree could easily remain the case with 10 seconds), so Vecna could be balanced around 40s cds (again meaning an average of 10s between spell usages) and still be fun to go against
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3933183#Comment_3933183
I get where you are coming from, but I'd rather have spells on a lesser cooldown that have more counterplay than spells with a higher cooldown that have less counterplay. I think the way they are changing Vecna now will make him more interactive and fun to play as and play against.
Wesker's generally considered fun to go against isn't he?
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932537#Comment_3932537
Why would they want to buff his spells? I mean they are buffing Fly, and Mage Hand and Flight of the Damned are already strong enough, I see no reason to buff their effectiveness. I also don't see how his macro skill expressions is being reduced with these changes.
Are fly mage hand or flight of the damned gonna be good enough to have 40s cooldowns with these changes? Clearly not, and his macro skill expression is reduced with lower spell cooldowns because it means you don't have to be as careful/intentional in how you use your spells, whereas with 40s cooldowns youd maintain the average frequency and required skill as a killer with only 1 ability and a 10s cooldown (since vecna has 4 abilities)
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@francesinhalover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932537#Comment_3932537
vecnas one of the strongest killers in the game easily top 10's and now he is a lot stronger on high mmr. and you want him further buffed? lmao
That is just not true in any universe
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932537#Comment_3932537
When the PTB goes live, please do give the changes a chance. After you've given them a try in-game, if there are specific aspects of his kit that you have feedback on, please don't hesitate to share them with us - we'll be keeping a close eye out for feedback to share with the team!
I appreciate the response and I definitely will try them out, though I have to say this problem is present even with current Vecna. It's not that he's op, not even close, but instead of being balanced around having 4 strong spells each with 40s, which would result in an average of 1 spell every 10 seconds, which is a standard cooldown time, he gets 4 weak spells with <40s cooldowns, having a similar effect on strength but reducing inthe macro skill expression, a purely worse solution as I see it.
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So much good stuff but more efforts should be put into buffing vecna's spells instead of reducing the cooldowns, it's very disappointing to see his macro skill expression reduced to pander to bad players
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917481#Comment_3917481
You advocated for removing him, why else think that the killer is a fundamental problem and/or strong character to play. If Dredge is not a strong killer, why would you think that this comment wouldn't imply strength as a factor in your recommendation for his removal?
Typically, killers deemed 'fundamentally flawed' in this way are either oppressive or frustrating to play against, which tends to correlate with perceived strength in some form.
If the issue isn't his strength, then is it more about him being unfun rather than overpowered?
Ok well that's an immature assumption to make, killers can have plenty other problems besides strength. My problem with him is that he takes little skill to play and is encouraged to hit and run, a lazy strategy made really easy by his mobility.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917481#Comment_3917481
... I don't know why you think Dredge of all killers require bare minimum of a skill level to play.
I didn't think I'd see someone thinking Dredge is a strong killer and when I have played Dredge (I even adepted him) - I did not play hit and run Dredge.
I'm on mobile, dang - I do like the tagged person's addition. It would help with the fact that sometimes lockers are not near gens that you need to teleport to, and it is on theme for Dredge as you know, chests are locked and/or open. It gives more viability to Dredge, albeit basement's chest would be utterly useless of course. Regardless, this is a good simple change.
When did I say dredge is a strong killer?
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918343#Comment_3918343
You really think random chases are viable. That, or you're just being contrarian with everything you're saying.
Strategies are used because they're the most efficient ways of winning, which promote skill because they require skill to execute. What killer can simply beat superior survivors by tunneling? He won't even be able to down them. Survivors not being able to deal with strategies is by and large a skill issue. They don't have a right to complain about a strategy they haven't even attempted to employ counterplay against.
I say this all the time: There's no reason to not bring in an item. It's a free advantage. And if you're playing to escape, you bring the 2 items which increase those chances the most, which are obviously toolboxes and medkits. If hit and run is so prevalent or strong, please, run a medkit. Especially if you're one of those survivor's who's like, "I'm not doing anything until I'm healed" or "We always get interrupted healing!" If you need the ability to heal yourself or finish off your heal, bring it.
The locks that Dredge gives survivors for free has been stupid from the start. We're just not outraged about it because it's been in for so long. But survivors really don't need all that, especially not the 2 lockers being locked by 1 lock (essentially).
I don't get how you don't see ANY skill in what the killer does. You can't simply turn your brain off and play killer. You're juggling like 10 things even a medium level of play. Give the players some credit.
And I get what you mean with relying on survivors' lack of game knowledge, but that's an issue with the killer role itself, and an 'issue' with the learning experience itself. Killers who are skilled at the game want to be able to beat good survivors, not just bad ones or ones lacking knowledge. That's why inaccurate matchmaking has been so bad for the game. But the survivors, in any event, need to understand that killers like the Dredge are the way that they are. Yes, Nightfall and hit and run can be inconvenient, because they're supposed to be. The killer is an obstacle to be overcome and is in opposition to the survivors. If they're unable to have meaningful abilities or use strategies, what's the point of the game for them?
"Random chases." It's just chases, nothing random about it.
Never said I couldn't deal with it, I could but only if I'm on comms because that's what's required to deal with it. Very healthy of a playstyle to be OP vs survs without comms and useless vs survs with them, and it doesn't take skill just because you said so. Thinking hit and run should be viable is a skill issue.
Limited use is not "free," and still, doesn't make dredge take any more skill to a significant degree.
You quite literally can turn your brain off and play the killer, and the only reason you won't win is because he's weak, not because he's hard. Any juggling you have to do comes entirely from the killer role itself and not dredge.
What I meant was relying on survs lack of knowledge of realtime game events, like where teammates are or where tiles are, teammates is a general issue sure but tiles is entirely dredge's fault because of nightfall vfx. I don't mind the killer having abilities to inconvenience survivors but they should take skill to use, and dredeg's don't.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917481#Comment_3917481
Asking for a character to be removed will almost always result in getting backlash. There are people that like that character and will defend them. They have any right to do so.
I personally dont think that Dredge is that insanely easy to play, especially when you have Killers like Ghoul and Legion in the game. Using the tp effecitvely and maximizing nightfall efficiency is nto so easy to do on a higher level. His anti loop also requires some thinking if survivors chose to leave / disrupt the remnant.
Hit and run might not be the most fun playstyle, but doing it effectively is a lot more skillful than brute forcing pallets and catching up with *some killers* for a free hit. Or lets be more precise, getting a hit completely for free (Legion, Ghoul).
Sure they have the right to do so, doesn't take away from them being biased, just because people like a fundamentally flawed character doesn't mean they should be in the game.
Kaneki is not nearly as easy as dredge, the free injure brings him closer to that point sure, but the second hit still takes skill and has depth. Legion should be removed too. Using his tp is easy, literally just remember what gens are being worked on and tp there, and if there's no lockers nearby that's not a skill element just a disadvantage. Remnant doesn't require any skill except basic patience.
Hit and run is not skillful at any level except for killers that actually add depth to the decision making instead of just making it free to drop chase like dredge does
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917481#Comment_3917481
Not every killer needs to require a genius to play.
Also, hit and run is mostly a dead playstyle, so not sure how that's a problem.
I would understand if the argument was that it encourages brainlessly holding W, but making hit and run the base of your argument against him seems really shaky.
There's a difference between not being braindead and requiring a genius.
What you say about hit and run doesn't change my point whatsoever, he's still encouraged to do it.
Hit and run is the "base" of my argument because there's nothing more to say about him besides that and him not taking skill to play, ######### else you want me to say?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917481#Comment_3917481
While I agree that just downvoting and saying nothing isnt very useful (not a fan of the downvote system and I never use it)... I also just wanna point out that you haven't really said much of anything to justify/substantiate your claim...
"He is fundamentally flawed by taking bare minimum skill to play and be encouraged to hit and run"... skill is its own topic (I'm a believer that skill in DBD is more than just mechanical skill, macro skill, build construction and map knowledge are just as important skills in their own right), but you haven't qualified why hit and run is such a problem to be considered "fundamentally flawed".
Doesn't this also count for Legion? Wraith? Sadako? Are all these killers also fundamentally flawed since they too are taking bare minimum mechanical skill to play? Cause I can't realistically see a justification for gutting Dredge and not all of these killers as well if we follow this line of reasoning; and I think not many would agree these killers are in a position they should be gutted.
Not to mention numerous other killers have the mobility to also play hit and run effectively if they choose to. Blight, Nurse, Spirit, Wesker, Unknown, Ghoul, Freddy, etc, etc. These killers generally have higher lethality so tend to prefer to close out chases instead of play hit and run, but they are absolutely capable of doing so, and while some of them take more skill than Dredge, I'd argue that Spirit, Freddy, Ghoul or Unknown are not really any harder to play than Dredge... debatably easier.
So for any discussion to be meaningful you need to clarify your argument... because without a tangible point, this does sound a little "I don't like Dredge because he can hit and run... so nerf him pl0x", hence likely why you've been ratio'd.
You really think it's reasonable to expect me to explain every little thing in what I say? There's a difference between saying nothing absolutely nothing and saying less than everything. Hit and run is a problem because it's a lazy strategy that doesn't involve chasing, which is the fun part of the game which everyone agrees with, coincidentally until hit and run is brought up lol.
Yes, legion wraith and sadako are also fundamentally flawed, it doesn't mean anything to me that not many people would agree since not many people actually understand this game well.
Blight has a strong and unique chase power so he's not forced into hit and run like the other killers which literally couldn't be buffed because they have little to no identity outside of it. Nurse, spirit, and wesker literally have no mobility. Unknown doesn't have mobility vs good players that dispell hallucinations frequently. Kaneki should have his free injure removed. Freddy same as blight and he has a long cooldown on his tp. All those killers you mentioned are definitely more challenging than dredge, not debatable whatsoever if they're easier because they absolutely not.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917481#Comment_3917481
Dredge isn’t fundamentally flawed at all you can literally leave loops and they just have no power, in chase people use the teleport that is a relatively healthy 50/50 if you wanna fight it since if dredge ######### up they wasted alot of time and by that logic alot of hit and run killers should be removed
So his whole counterplay is hold W, yeah that's a fundamental flaw. And yes a lot of the hit and run killers should indeed be removed
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922103#Comment_3922103
no, he's so bad without the haste there was a reason why he was so dependent on the soma family photo addon and everyone ran it.
2- it's an anti tunnel perk that you can't force on the killer it just helps you get distance when getting tunneled nothing wrong with that.
singularity is absolutely not bad without it, everyone ran it because it was a crutch
it was already very strong and can be used even after the killers already hooked someone else + its not good they keep trying to solve tunneling with perks instead of basekit mechanics, especially when they arent adequately compensating killer for it
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@foomongus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922103#Comment_3922103
Singularity still get his 3%, its just base movespeed when active and not a haste effect. in general. this doesnt change anything about him
yeah i know, but they should still remove it
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Please just remove singularity's extra movement speed entirely...and babysitter didn't need a buff whatsoever
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921915#Comment_3921915
You find it frustrating that doctor's hallucinations or zombies don't give more value without you having to do anything.
False. I didn't say that. I said Nemesis Zombies are extremely buggy in their current state. If you want I have TONS of videos showcasing too how awful his zombies are on large maps. As for doctor. I am not asking for his hallucinations to chase you and hook, so lets stop acting like I just don't want to play the game.
chucky being torn to shreds even tho he's A tier?
I don't know who told you Chucky is A tier or what tier list you read but remember tier list are just opinion based much like the one I am about to give you. However, I will state a few facts. Chucky in the last few patches has gotten severe nerfs and the loss of an entire ability that isn't any stronger than what we already have in the game…let's be so for real.
We have 2 "S Tier Killers" I just don't vibe with them. I shouldn't have to play them or be forced to because other killers lack in other areas.
So far you only have complained about my points on Chucky and Nemesis so I will assume you agree that the other 12 killer's I have mentioned could use tweaks.
And by asking for the zombies bugs to be fixed you're asking for them to be stronger. And by asking for doctor's hallucinations to have another function you're asking for them to be stronger. Both of which are mechanics that get value from you doing nothing, so yes, you did say that.
All of chucky's nerfs were deserved, he was and still is a strong killer despite being the least skillful dash killer. So let's be so for real in not acting like he needs any more buffs.
Again, completely ignoring my actual point about S tiers, that you said no matter who you play you'll be missing something even though that's not the case. I never said or implied that you should have to play an S tier to deal with these issues, so why do you keep responding to a point I'm not making?
And still…I quite literally pointed out issues with your points on Doctor and Ghostface too, but that's not to say I agree with all the other points, but the points I'm talking about are good examples for showing how your frustration with the game seems to have little to do with a lack of game health.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921769#Comment_3921769
No offense but there is nothing "Forced" about this. These are genuine experiences I and many other killers are encountering daily. It can be very frustrating truthfully. I don't think you should be invalidating how I feel on the topic and what I am literally going through day in a day out on this game.
I would love to see improvements. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Also why should I have to play just an S tier killer? Blight/Nurse…If you main survivor that's fine but let's not ignore the issues that are currently existing.
There is something wrong with wanting to see "improvements" when a lot of them are actually just unwarranted buffs. You find it frustrating that doctor's hallucinations or zombies don't give more value without you having to do anything, or chucky being torn to shreds even tho he's A tier? Doesn't really sound like an issue with the game. And when did I say you should have to choose from the limited S tiers? All I did was point out your flawed point about how "no matter who you select something is wrong," but instead of admitting you're wrong you're twisting my words :/
You can feel however you want, doesn't mean bad changes should come to the game
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This really just comes off as forced nitpicking. Chucky is not "torn to shreds." Doctor hallucinations being buffed would make no sense because they require no input from the doctor player. Ghostface not being revealable by hooked survivors would make proxy camping even more of a nightmare for uncoordinated teams than it already is. Unknown you can literally counter the cleansing by breaking los and hitting another shot in time. Zombies being buffed would make no sense for the same reason as buffing doctor hallucinations. And I don't know what makes you say "no matter who you play you're gonna have to deal with some flaw" as if S tiers don't exist.
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Having to enter the tunnels doesn't make the heat dissipation changes any less horrible, all xeno needs is for emergency helmet basekit to be reverted and double turret setups to be removed (which you did say to your credit). The rest of this is mostly giving xeno more info while giving survs less, which is really not reasonable, xeno doesn't need more info and solo survs don't need to struggle any more
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919588#Comment_3919588
Facts! People actually felt awful playing her when there were 2 split cooldowns. It was very frowned upon. I agree. We do not need to go back to that.
Then they should get rid of the tv specific cooldown. No reason to tp again within 10s of tping unless you're spamming condemned or made a mistake by teleporting to the wrong spot, which are not good reasons. Only people making mistakes often thought it felt bad
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919642#Comment_3919642
You‘ve still not told me ONE good reason why it is a problem. It‘s just you talking about how something is not skillful enough for you, which it also doesn‘t need to be. There is no difference between blight running over the map and finding people and Sadako doing the same with her teleport. Same with nurse, Dracula …. They all traverse the map fast and find randomly people.
Sadako is not strong and with those changes she would still not be strong. Sadako has also a diffrent skill celling than others, but ask Radianthero if you want him to explain it to you.
I‘m done here arguing about irrelevant stuff and your only argument being „Skill issue“, which is no argument if you didn‘t know.
I've told you it's a problem because it allows her to mindlessly get info and tp to survs with no effort, that's a good reason, not my problem you don't see it just because you don't want to put in the effort. Blight has a cooldown btw. Drac has a cooldown btw. Nurse literally has the worst map mobility in the game, how are you gonna make a claim related to whether or not people know what they're talking about then bring up Nurse in a discussion about map mobility lol.
Also we're talking about skill floor here not skill ceiling, and having to redirect me to someone else clearly shows you don't think for yourself, which would make sense given you don't want projection cooldown to come back.
To say something is a problem because it's too easy is objectively an argument and that doesn't change just because you ignorantly rephrase it as "just calling something a skill issue." Maybe come back when you're based in reality whatsoever.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919596#Comment_3919596
It‘s not a mistake to search for people and doing it more efficiently with the teleport. Without aura perks or knowing there is high progressed gen you can‘t know where people are.
It‘s insane to me that you complain about the weakest part of her kit. There is no reason to nerf it, especially since survivors can deactivate it all times with 0 cost. If you struggle against her mobility that is huge skill issue on your part.
You probably also want condemned on hit back and global condemned because it was „absolute non-issue for good players“
You quite literally can know where people are, it's a skill called game sense, any skilled player has it. "Without knowing there is a high progressed gen," exactly, so use game sense to know there is a high progressed gen, it's a skill, and the lack of it is a skill issue. It's not even up for debate really.
Who said I struggle? Sadako is still a weak killer, but the point is that if you want her buffed, so that survivors can deactivate her power with more than 0 cost, you have to make her less brainless, you can't have a killer be strong while not taking a reasonable amount of skill.
Condemned on hit and global condemned were a non-issue for coordinated players, but condemned on hit should be reimplemented as condemned on down and global condmen basically still exists since the previous caveat of not affecting survs holding tapes is very similar to the current one of not affecting survs near unpowered TVs.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919590#Comment_3919590
The tp is not a problem and totally fine. There is nothing wrong with it. Having a cooldown on projection felt terrible and anyone who knows what they are talking about wouldn‘t suggest something like that.
The cooldown on the TVs serves a purpose limiting her condemned spread.
The projection cooldown only felt terrible for bad players who relied on spamming tp, the projection cooldown was only 10 seconds, there was literally zero reason to project again within 10 seconds unless you made a mistake. A projection cooldown would also limit her condemned spread while also limiting her mobility and force her to play more carefully, an absolute non-issue for good players.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919581#Comment_3919581
Playing like that is completely fine. She already has a cooldown for each Tv! She doesn‘t need two and survivors already can hard counter her. Complaining about that part of her power is a skill issue.
They should remove the cooldown for each tv and replace it with a projection cooldown, the cooldown for each tv serves no purpose since if you need to teleport again so soon then it will be to a different tv. Also no, complaining that a killer can mindlessly spam their power without thinking is not a skill issue just because you say it is
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919554#Comment_3919554
The point of passive condemned is to discourage survivors from hoarding tapes and that they don‘t hold onto them until the last moment, but it would require a longer build up than mechwarrior suggests like 50-60 seconds for one stack. Everything below would be overtuned.
Her projection should never ever get a cooldown. They can bring in one for condemned if they feel like it, but not the teleport. Secondly there are people who use her tp to find people, which has nothing to with a skill issue.
That quite literally is a skill issue, you should have to know where survivors are before projecting via gamesense, no projection cooldown allows her to just mindlessly tp over the map to find someone without having to do any thinking
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919468#Comment_3919468
The killer still has to chase you…Which she has 0 chase abilities. She has to down the you around loops. No antilooping ability. There should be Risk and Reward. Right now there is just Reward. Its not balanced.
Not the case with the passive condemned suggestion, and with the other two she doesn't have to get a down, just a hit, which can be done very easily. There's really no reason to argue against projection cooldown coming back unless you're not tping to the right location, which is a skill issue
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919463#Comment_3919463
So turn the other tv off? Its that simple.
Then these suggested buffs come into play, and survivors have to carefully balance risk while the killer doesn't have to do anything besides spamming teleport
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919442#Comment_3919442
There is no lack of game sense. You turn the tv off and literally hold 2 of her 3 powers for 70 seconds. Its literally that simple.
Yeah, on a single TV. There is a lack of game sense in being able to teleport to a TV with no survivors by mistake and being able to instantly correct that mistake with little punishment, and in fact reward thanks to the way condemn works. Not exactly sure how what you said makes that not the case
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They need to bring back projection cooldown to punish lack of game sense and mindless condemning, then they can buff her
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I liked how the last version was for the most part but this just seems like the same but a bit worse, besides removing the aura reading on skull merchant from hacking drones, that's a good change
Drones no longer down, instead only injuring and having to use her Drone Buddy to down — …Why? What is the point of this? Drones downing wouldn't be an issue so long as they were balanced accordingly. This just seems like unnecessary complexity, if you really wanna go through with this then at least make it so instead of claw traps injuring they just make it so the emp dart instadowns, so that it isn't balanced in a way that just encourages her to get free pressure from easy injuries.
Global detection power buffed to track walking survivors — Again, why? Seriously this whole mechanic should just be scrapped, it's either useless or provides value without needing to put in any effort.
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Brutal doesn't need a buff
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@Jay_Whyask said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918344#Comment_3918344
Current gameplay loop of gen regression spam/ Sprint Burst pre dropping has been stale for several years.
If Alien Instinct aura reading (just the aura reading) was made base kit that may encourage people to run perks that synergize with or counter the effect.
Blood Echo, Inner Strength, Furtive Chase, Object of Obsession, Coulrophobia, Quick & Quiet, etc.
Anything that might get people's eyes away from Pain res Sprint Burst every game.
Different =/= better, anti healing and stealth playstyles are skill-less and super boring
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Now why exactly do we want anti-heal perks or lockers to become more appealing?
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@Wiccamanplays said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917973#Comment_3917973
Hit-and-run and tunnelling are arguably diametrically opposed strategies but you don't want either in the game. What do you want Killers to do if it's not acceptable to apply pressure evenly across the Survivor team or to apply it heavily to one Survivor, while being realistic that going for 8 hooks across 4 Survivors is not a feasible strategy in most trials? Moreover, it's far easier to counter hit-and-run than it is to fix tunnelling: bring a decent medkit, or some perk that lets you self-heal, or an aura perk that lets you find other Survivors more easily. There are plenty of good options for all of these but I never see Survivors bring these (whicever side I'm playing) because 90% of them all bring flashy chase perks instead of ones that might help their team survive.
Locker locks are, at least in principle, easy to deal with, but also easy for Survivors to apply. It's literally pressing a button in front of a locker. For Dredge it also breaks Bloodlust and removes momentum if they break locks from the outside, slowing you down if you're trying to chase a Survivor.
When Dredge charges his teleport, you can't see any of the map geometry you pass through, so you need to know where you're going to end up in relation to Survivor and tile positions, which is a skillset that's not unique to Dredge per se, but is peculiar to some (Freddy, Unknown and Dracula have similar mechanics). No Killer is totally unique in how they operate and what skills they require, otherwise learning more than one Killer would be insanely difficult.
I agree that Nightfall can be oppressive for new Survivors, and I wish they'd make some visual adjustments so it's not so bad on some monitors. But it's virtually a non-issue for experienced Survivors (or anyone who uses shaders).
I don't understand why it's always asked "what else is the killer supposed to do" as if the only possible strategies in the game are hit and running or tunneling/camping/slugging/3 genning, the answer is literally just chasing survivors. It's widely agreed upon that chase is the most fun part of the game (up until hit and run is brought up, oddly enough), and while it's not a viable strategy in most trials my point is that it should be.
And why should solo survivors have to bring an item or perk just to do what swfs can do without them? Especially when it's to counter a strategy the killer can do without having to sacrifice any part of their build, or effort for that matter.
Locks being easy for survivors to use doesn't make dredge take any more skill to play as, I'm not sure the purpose of bringing up that point.
Knowing the surroundings of where you're teleporting is hardly necessary, hardly difficult, and as you mention hardly unique. Sure no killer is totally unique, but there are plenty of killers that aren't identical either, and this singular point of the very slightest skill expression is basically identical to the other examples, and that wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't also unnecessary and easy, but it is. It doesn't magically bring dredge's skill floor out from the gutter.
Just as it's a non issue for experienced Survivors, the lack of it would be a non issue for experienced Killers who don't rely on Survivors lack of knowledge to do well and instead their own skill. Something that serves the entire purpose of making the killer easier to play should be trivial for inexperienced Survivors to deal with as well, so it should just be removed entirely. My point stands that it serves no purpose other than taking advantage of Survivors' lack of info, and therefore getting results just because Survivors guess wrong, without having to put any effort in yourself.
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@Wiccamanplays said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917481#Comment_3917481
Hit and run is a playstyle that in most circumstances is less effective than just focussing and tunnelling one Survivor out so I wouldn't discourage it, especially since it's not particularly strong right now anyway.
Dredge, while not requiring the same mechanical skill of, say, a Huntress, DOES require extensive map knowledge and understanding of the macro/win conditions of the Survivors you're facing, so you can reliably teleport to where they intend to go and cut them off. You also have to understand positioning and timing really well to get the benefit of the Remnant ability to anti-loop. Dredge isn't an overpowered Killer by any stretch of the imagination, though he can be a bit of a noobstomper during Nightfall because new Survivors struggle with Blindness and Undetectable Killers. You're the only person I've ever seen complain about the Dredge in such strong terms. Would you like to elaborate on why you dislike them so much?How does it follow that hit and run shouldn't be discouraged just because it's already weak? It should be weak, just as tunneling should be, because it's an uninteractive and unskillful strat, one that also disproportionately screws over solo players who can't consisntently find each other to get healed or have comms on the killer's location.
Most of what you're describing, map knowledge and macro skill, is just general killer knowledge that's not unique to the dredge and only made easier for him thanks to having a mobility power. The only things he has that could be argued as skill expression are remnant placement, which is really the bare minimum and has a very low skill floor, managing locks, which again is the bare minimum and don't fully prevent dredge from getting free hits, and nightfall which is mostly charged by keeping survivors injured without having to put effort into getting downs.
I don't think he's overpowered, but he's very easy to play and encouraged to play with even less effort thanks to the main source of charging nightfall. On top of this the vfx from nightfall serves to restrict survivor's info, forcing them into a potential guessing game without having to put in any effort yourself.