kit_mason
kit_mason
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@Thesevenspirits said:
Killer and survivors enter match without perks, offerings and add-ons, no tools box, medkit, map nothing.
Which side do you think will dominate under a standard match?
Give well structured arguments only
In a Dead by Daylight (DBD) match where both the Killer and Survivors enter without perks, offerings, add-ons, or items, the Killer has a distinct advantage. Here’s a structured breakdown of why:
1. The Killer’s Built-in Strengths
Unlike Survivors, who rely heavily on perks and items for efficiency, the Killer’s core mechanics remain potent even without enhancements. Key advantages include:
Inherent Map Pressure: The Killer always knows where Survivors will be (e.g., generators, hooks, exit gates). Survivors must constantly move and react, while the Killer can dictate the flow of the game.
Guaranteed One-Hit Advantage: While Survivors need two hits to go down, they have no way to heal themselves without a medkit or perks like Self-Care. Once injured, they stay vulnerable.
Hooking Survivors Is Unchanged: Without perks like Decisive Strike or Deliverance, Survivors have no second chances after being hooked. A Killer who gets a down always progresses toward a sacrifice.
No Tool-Assisted Loops: Without Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, or medkits, chases are entirely skill-dependent. The Killer’s speed and mind games become even stronger.
2. Survivor Struggles Without Perks and Items
Survivors rely on their perks and items for resilience. Without them:
No Healing: Without Medkits or perks like Self-Care, a single hit puts a Survivor in a dangerous state indefinitely.
Longer Generator Times: No toolboxes, Prove Thyself, or Resilience means generators take the full 90 seconds per Survivor, allowing the Killer more time to pressure objectives.
No Chase Perks: Perks like Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, and Window-related perks help Survivors extend chases. Without them, most Survivors will go down quickly.
No Hook Second Chances: Perks like Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, or Unbreakable give Survivors counterplay after being hooked. Without them, the Killer has fewer obstacles to sacrificing players.
3. Exceptions & Edge Cases
While the Killer generally dominates in a no-perk, no-item environment, a few scenarios could challenge this assumption:
Map Dependence: Some maps (e.g., The Game, RPD) have strong natural loops. A highly skilled Survivor team could out-loop a basic M1 Killer.
High Coordination: SWF (Survive With Friends) groups can communicate and make strategic plays. Even without perks, a well-coordinated team can extend the match.
Certain Killers Struggle: Killers like The Trapper, The Twins, or The Pig, who rely heavily on their power and add-ons, may struggle more than straightforward Killers like The Wraith or The Hillbilly.
My Conclusion: Killer Dominates all the time.
provided both sides are equivalent in skill, build and mindset?
it's even. a lot of people are going to pick a side, but i think that the three things i picked decide 99.9% of games, so if you're trying to determine which is better, you have to decide which side has the more unbreakable mindset, more practiced skils or, after both of those are considered even - the better build.
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@Thesevenspirits said:
think charms shouldn't only be cosmetic. The devs can add 1 or 0.5 % haste when injured, or not in chase, aura range, 1 second speed boost when not exhausted. Or 1 percent exhaustion recovery speed. 1% boost to healing, vaulting speed etc for survivors.
They can also do similar for killers, 1% hook progression, or breaking/damaging speed. 1 second undetected or haste when carrying a survivor or other slight buffs to perks or add-ons. I can make a whole list of these suggestions that will be easy to implement without breaking the game.
All you have to do is copy the code for the already existing perks/ add-ons and then change the values.
Make the charms mean something other than simply being useless cosmetic add-ons the makes the killers easily find you when you are trying to camouflage into the environment.
Kindly add your inputs here. GGs
ah yes. p2w on time-limited additions to the game.
hate this, never do it.
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Survivors are already essentially customization swaps of one another, I think BHVR would lose money giving players any reasonable level of customization to that extent, meaning they'd have to extensively paywall it and at that point why bother, yknow?
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@DevLinky said:
So, the way I see it is as follows:
1 - Bad survivors tend to tea-bag at exit gates, probably because they don't escape that often and feel… "something?" when it finally happens. Don't mind them, they're just a bunch of frustrated people.
2 - Good survivors who tea-bag often do so because someone was camped/tunneled/slugged for a long time.But of course there are exceptions.
I dont tunnel, camp or slug if I can physically help it so I'm not sure that second one hugely applies. Maybe the first one does, I'm not sure.
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@SkeletalElite said:
This is a hotly debated topic with some claiming their is risk of toxicity or lobby dodging but I am here to advocate for it and explain why I think this isn't as big an issue as people make it out to be. I believe the vast majority of players will not care what perks you equip outside of a small selection of perks that many players will collectively share a distate for. This is not a problem with the community and is not a reason to hide perks but rather a problem with these perks themselves.
Left behind/sole survivor being the prime suspects. The fact that people would dodge them, is indicative of the perks themselves being problematic, they are poorly designed. These perks exist to support a defeatist playstyle, that assumes the entire team will die, and is thus used by players who play into that. People would certainly dodge these perks, because the playstyle these perks support is NOT a team playstyle. Playing survivor is a team game, but these perks contradict that, no one wants to play with someone who is not playing for the team. The solution is to rework these perks into a perks that help make a comeback as the team gets weaker to stick to their original themes without supporting the play style they do currently (ratting for hatch, gate with extra open speed)
To a lesser extent there's probably a (relatively) small number of players who would dodge players using bad (but otherwise not poorly designed) perks, but I do not think this would be prevalent enough to negatively impact the game, and also serves as a datapoint to identify perks that need to be buffed.
tl;dr: If so many people are dodging players that equip a certain perk or perks that the game experience is negatively impacted for users of that perk, that is a problem with the perk, not with the community and is not a good reason to hide perks.
Except that lobby dodging wouldnt only occur for Left Behind / Sole Survivor. It'd occur for adepts, for the Generalist achievements, for builds that arent sufficiently stacked.
Is that a problem with the perks, that if youre not running triple second chance with an exhaustion your teamamtes are considered well within their right to dodge you?
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@PinheadGlazer said:
I doubt there will be a point where survivors and killers are satisfied. No matter what there always is "tunneling is toxic" "slugging is toxic" "genrushing is toxic" everything is bad for both sides. Constant war of who gets what and who will get more changes. "Game is killer sided" "Game is survivor sided" and so on until one side gets a change and then the other side will cry and it doesnt stop. There is just nothing that would make both sides happy, this is an eternal war of sides fighting.
The game has no hope of being balanced if your definition of balanced is "everyone is happy with the game" sure, but imo the game stands an excellent chance of being balanced (the team playing harder to win will win, generally) because its 90% of the way there already.
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@Zuiphrode said:
Punishing survs for doing this toxic BS would significantly reduce the blood pressure of all killer mains
actual serious suggestion: add a CD that doubles every time you crouch and reduces if you go for a while without crouching/standing. Will have zero effect on normal gameplay but harshly punish teabaggers
They'd find a new way to be toxic, and would punish actual counterplay measures like repeated crouching to avoid huntress hatchets and deathslinger shots. If they can force the survivor to crouch they can leverage this feature by making it seem as if the survivor is teabagging.
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@Jarred2504 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3889087#Comment_3889087
The add-on itself was still nerfed, making it basekit is they just increased the total hatchets she can carry, they still shouldn't have changed the infantry belt the way they did.
I'm gonna be a little blunt - I think Huntress doesn't need 7 hatchets to perform. If you're genuinely asking for 9, I'd suggest practicing patience when it comes to using your power.
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wdym nerf - it was made basekit and its effect was changed?
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@Plummiess said:
Hear me out please, Harry potter and Voldemort in dbd
Giving a woman who is openly against trans people's rights money to put her slop into a game would alienate anyone that gives a damn about trans people.
Not a risk worth taking, financially or morally.
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@CyberianFaux said:
The title. The queues are still massive with the bots because less people want to play with bots on their team and are either lobby dodging or not queuing in the first place. I think this is objectively the worst test of 2v8 so far.
Beyond this, the bots are very perceptibly worse than human players. They auto vault any window or pallet that they can in chase in a predictable way. If the killer goes slightly closer to one side of the loop than the other, the bot vaults. They will autovault and run to the next loop if they calculate they can reach it without being hit because you committed to a hit wrong. The problem is that this is predictable enough it is a guaranteed hit if you can just trigger them to animation lock themselves and double back at the same time. The worst part? They don't do gens if injured, have even a max distance terror radius near them, there is a teammate in a cage, or the gens near them don't have as much progress as a gen far away with someone else on it.
To top this off, they have gotten stuck in the environment, tend to crouch walk everywhere, and also take up a slot that could be used for someone else to have fun.
The reason killer queues are so long is because 2v8 isn't a permanent mode making it a novelty, survivors are guaranteed a bot teammate (possible and likely more than 1), bloodpoint incentives are useless to high hour players, and killers have objectively more interesting synergies due to the class system being boring for almost all survivor classes but escapist and the healer one still.Triple XP is essentially a Shard Incentive.
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@bdzr said:
I'm not going to suggest banning for VPN's because some people use them just to connect to their own servers to avoid DDOS and whatever else to protect their privacy but people who use them from let's say China to connect to NA have the worst ping and it makes the matches unplayable.. It's ruining the game log on anytime after 11:59pm you see them more than ever connecting to NA servers and absolutely ruining it.
I think my suggestion here is ping over 100 for more than a set amount of time = kicked from the game and no matchmaking ban just kicked back to lobby to avoid normal players lagging/with bad internet from getting banned and having to appeal. A setting to turn off ping-locked lobbies in the online tab of settings would allow these players that like to use VPN's to continue playing the game on their own terms and still allow normal players to avoid queueing against this, dedicated servers fixed the lagswitchers but it definitely didnt fix the constant VPN's and im tired of playing against people who can just swing from 10000 miles away and hit me.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PE3AFWXS4ERK/deadbydaylight-2-15-2025-5-46-24-am.png
Two problems.
- Not every high ping player has a VPN. Some are just living in regions with no good, close server to them - the middle east and much of south america are great examples. Others, on survivor side (presuming you aren't only enforcing high ping kicks for killer?) are just SWF with friends from other regions, which has no clean solution for ping.
- Not a singular player I know would ever find a reason to turn off a ping lock if they live in a region with good ping. Whilst, yes, this does make VPNing players have longer queues, it also makes the first group also have significantly longer queues for decisions that are entirely out of their control.
Change hit validation to be less beneficial for killers on high ping, instead of kicking people for living in the wrong place.
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I think they're good! Yellow Herb especially does a great job delaying first kill when the bots aren't stealing them the moment they get off first hook.
Hopefully with the bots soon to be gone they'll see even greater value.
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@BeTrends said:
Currently, in 2v8 matches, the waiting time for killers is excessively long, often reaching up to 30 minutes. This seems to be due to an imbalance in role distribution, as many players queue up to play as killers.
To address this, what if we first gather 10 players for matchmaking and then randomly assign 2 of them as killers? While the gameplay mechanics would differ, similar systems have been implemented in games like Werewolf, so it might be worth experimenting with.
What do you all think?
People would just lobby shop until they got the role they wanted. It's an idea if everyone honored the role they were given, but not enough would to justify it.
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@iOverSpray said:
It isn't 2016 any more where survivors are called potatoes hiding in corners while 1 out of 20 knew how to loop. You've made the game idiot proof from adding things like windows of opp, 4 hook states, 87 hits to get one down with perk combos of otr, ds and dh. You add gen time (because they fly) then nerf regression perks all while adding 100 gen speed perks and combos on top of only 10 kicks per gen which renders your added gen time pointless. Basekit bt, addition of anti camp and longer hook stages to do what? Combat tunneling against already strong survivors (not even swf) using offerings for maps like eerie of crows? 5 year olds could make better, less conflicting decisions. Balance shouldn't mean you only look out for the new player base. Even if it does, can you not hire some one capable of balancing the game in tiers?
Most pub survivors make more than enough heavily punishable mistakes such that you can win a majority of killer matches.
If gens are flying, and tunneling isn't working, and you're losing to DH, maybe try reviewing your games? You should for sure at least be waiting out DH on a survivor that isn't showing you any exhaustions, and maybe work on your chase efficiency if you think tunneling is ineffective because survivors are too strong?
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@Falcao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880029#Comment_3880029
no, you just latched on to me. you need time to find survivors. if you didn't take Currupt, you go around all the generators on the map and listen to the sounds. then a chase ensues which lasts for a while and if you're unlucky with the map you'll be faced with some nasty pallets and windows. you caught surv and see that there are 2 gens left. That's what I mean. Stop attacking my personality.
You're not taking a fast chase if "then a chase ensues which lasts for a while". Congrats, we've found out why 3 gens pop.
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@Jarred2504 said:
I hear back and forth debate on this killer "He's one of the best killers" to "He is so bad, his ability sucks!" personally I am just standing in the thin wall between these 2 sides. I think he's a good killer with a poorly designed ability similar to like The Pig, The Trapper (even though I enjoy him) and The Nightmare until recent buff.
Starting with add-ons
like quite a few killers in the game the ultra rares for Deathslinger are toilet paper
Iridescent Coin: This one is able to kind of boost Deathslinger's effectiveness but at the same time it completely defeats the purpose of managing to snipe a survivor with the redeemer as it only grants exposed status effect for close range shots, this should be buffed to where a survivor hit from any range suffers exposed.
Hellshire Iron: Ok what good is being undetectable after you landed a shot on a survivor and are reeling them in?? Should be able to grant undetectable for maybe 30 seconds or so after landing a shot on a survivor.
Next is buffs to the redeemer itself. Main thing I think is a better sight to make aiming easier cause often times feels like the shots are off-center, second should be around a 15 meter range buff, and increase on escape time. I forgot the add-on for this (honey locust? rusted spike?) but the one that makes survivors get injured when breaking free from the spear, that should be made a basekit ability and that has been a issue for me since I started using this killer, his ability doesn't even injure survivors. A new and much needed feature I think is needed is a redesign in the reeling in to where when you say shoot a survivor over a pallet or someone drops a pallet in front of you as you're pulling someone towards you, or maybe shot them at a vault point you should be able to pull survivors over dropped pallets and vault points when reeling them in.
That be the main things I'd like to see, on a side note something I think would be extra neat is redoing him all together where he is now able to swap between both the redeemer gun and like a breakaction shotgun for shooting survivors and injuring or downing them but takes longer to reload and has poor range, it basically be for hitting survivors at closer ranges why the redeemer would be for longer range.
Is this a post from an alternate timeline? Iri Coin is longshots only, chain breaking does injure, and you're suggesting adding a shotgun for… what reason exactly?
Slinger is fine. Very well-balanced, in the grand scheme. Make Hellshire Iron better and leave it there.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880029#Comment_3880029
Nor should the game be balanced around the top of the top killers. But it is. And that's why every single killer who plays loses not to good chases but to gen rushing.
You lose to an inability to apply sufficient pressure. Calling it "genrushing" makes it sound like something that happened to you, rather than a failing on your part.
Like I said, I play three killers that aren't top 3 (most estimations put hux in top 8, oni in top 12 and trapper in bottom 3. Two good one bad), and win plenty enough with minimal slowdown.
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@Falcao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879984#Comment_3879984
you focus a lot of attention on me personally. I'm talking about the problem. By the way, have you seen the Hens video about the world record? this fits the topic
Your perception of gen completion speeds is the most relevant part of the discusison. Your opinion is founded on a misinterpretation of the speed at which gens are typically completed, so I have to meet you and discuss with you on that point.
Hens' world record escape attempt is irrelevant to this discussion, because you are not going against world record attempt SWFs ever. Balancing around the 1 in a million groups trying to escape in sub 2:30 is a bad direction to take the game.
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@Falcao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879726#Comment_3879726
let's clear things up. I said there is a problem with genrush. second, Nurse and Blight are the strongest. third, when you go with people via communication and with random players - these are two different gameplays. fourth, you yourself admit that the problem of genrush exists. fifth, I myself am in favor of nerfing Nurse and Blight and strengthening the others, because going against these two is suicide.
I said there is a problem with genrush. fourth, you yourself admit that the problem of genrush exists.
You misunderstand me. I admit that doing gens exists. That its a problem that survivors do gens? No, just apply presusre better, a point now detailed to you by two people in this thread. It's been highlighted that you are either lying about how quickly your surv opponents are working gens, or lying about how quickly you are catching them. You cannot both be taking short chases and losing 5 gens to 2 chases in the majority of your games.
third, when you go with people via communication and with random players - these are two different gameplays.
Not… always? Sure- there are squads that exist and use comms to hugely augment their experience. But every SWF i've been in and most SWFs ive been against are fairly indistinguishable from normal players - chatting with each other in voice chat rather than using it to play as if there's money on the line.
I also think given how common globe players (Epic or Console) are, there's no way to know assuredly if someones swf or solo. Plenty of Steam users have their accounts on private, and just go next in EGC. You can know sometimes, but there's no way of assuring yourself without confirmation bias.
I'm just gonna discard the comments about Blight and Nurse. Every killer is capable of winning the vast, vast majority of their matches. This isn't even a matter of debate. It's just how the game is.
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@Falcao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879716#Comment_3879716
because I can look at profiles and read post-match chat. you named two strong killers. do you understand the difference between tier A and tier D for Freddy? and I used the chase perks to catch quickly. and then I saw three different genes disappear at the same time. Solo survivors don't play like that. they perform tasks from the book or hide at any sound. trapper? you probably only use iri addons and a map, right?
Iri addons and a map? What do you take me for, someone with bloodpoints to spare? I run fastening tools + coffee and bp offerings - the addons mimic 2v8 trapper which is when I first picked him up, so its comfy.
You didnt catch quickly, if 5 gens go in two chases. They had to be splitting them, which means realistically if they all had very good toolboxes and deja it was… maybe a minute to those three gens dinging - and that'd leave you with a pretty good gen spread if they all did the gens they appeared next to, but presuming you held nothing, and one survivor went for the unhook, your second chase would need to be closing in on 2 minutes for them to finish two more gens in that time.
The backwalk is interesting - you said the game is only good for Nurse and Blight, now its Singularity and Oni too? Do you want me to keep naming killers - we could make the game balanced in the blink of an eye!
As for Freddy, he isn't D tier anymore. Sure, he's not super strong but still.
And finally, for how solo survivors play, they do gens. I've played plenty of solo survivor and the teams are reasonably efficient especially if the killer is getting rinsed by the first survivor they chase.
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@Falcao said:
It's time to admit that such a problem exists in the game. If you not play as Nurse or Blight, you will lose three genes for the first chase and the remaining two genes for the second. it's not even funny that someone complains about noed in such circumstances. I wanted to try the updated Freddy, but I ran into several repair squads. SWF should be given a repair penalty for each member of the squad. They have already been rewarded with voice chat, which is the 5th strongest perk. or should the game be fun only for Nurse, Blight, and swf squads?
Two questions.
- Why do you presume that a group of survivors punishing your chase inefficiency with gen efficiency is a SWF? They just as easily could be good solo players, given you're only getting 2 chases in a game and therefore aren't applying any sort of organization-requiring pressure for them to manage.
- Why do you not presume that gens are flying because you aren't properly applying pressure, instead choosing to blame your opponent for doing what it takes to win their matches?
Of my three mains (Singularity, Oni and Trapper) none of them need more than two slowdowns to win the vast majority of my games. Hell- I could probably get away with nil slowdown on Hux and still win more than half, ditto for single slowdown Oni. None of those three are Nurse or Blight.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877422#Comment_3877422
This is where I am. Surge, Eruption, and Pain Res - and perks like them - shouldn't count here period. It's not fair to Killers who may rely on perks like Surge.
Surge to kick limit is 64% of a gen. If a survivor has to work a gen for almost two and a half minutes and you cant make anything happen from that, you deserve the loss.
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878363#Comment_3878363
There's tons of harassment from both sides right now, how would this make it any worse? Also if you don't want to share, hide your name. That simple.
The act of hiding your name and MMR comes with the presumption that the MMR in question is low, making lobby shopping away from anons worse.
Also yes? It hugely would? We should not be going out of our way to give toxic members of the community official bhvr ammunition with which to further their own toxicity.
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@MinxyJinxTTV said:
You know.. I used to be really decent at this game.. so did those i play with.. now?. not so much. The Game has become 0 fun… Tedious even. The Killers were already over powered beyond measure… We always felt like DBD was a 70/30 game.. Killer at 70 and Survivors at 30.. but more recently.. 90 to 10 most days. We have seen some killers come into the game and wipe out the whole team within 5 minutes of the start. They will come in and slug and slug until theres nothing that can be done.. If the killer slugs a player.. they can camp right on top of them… and nothing.. In the beginning the Anti Camping power bar was amazing.. until they updated it and not only made it way slower.. but also stalled it everytime the killer comes into range and made the camping area very very close.. The killer can literally almost be within in lunging distance and the bar doesnt move. I get it.. Toxic play is permitted in DBD.. Toxic play is even celebrated some.. Camping, Slugging, and Tunneling are 100% legit by the Dev rules.. No matter how hated they are by those writing checks that pay those Devs. Killer Mains take full atvantage of it as well.. I mean what are you going to do.. even if someone listed the Toxic vermin theyd just change their name for free.. I am beginning to HATE DBD like so many others.. but i have a lot of time and money invested in this Game and it is what my viewers want to watch me play.. They will put up with Fortnite some evenings, maybe a little CoD once in a while, but they prefer DBD. Even with the Toxic killer mains and the many many running cheats in the game unchecked.. It feels like DBD is a class room and the Teacher… The Devs etc have left the room so it can be ran by the Bullies.. i mean this is what this is in the end… It is a form of online bullying on a digital scale. You give one group the power, then take away any recourse or form of defense from the other group and then give the first group even more power… Group A.. The killer main now hav double the power and group B, Survivor mains have been relieved of whatever recourse they did have.. and they've been lied to about it with such things as the anti camp bar and the Fact that a survivor can no longer wiggle off the killers shoulder anymore no matter what build they are using… Unhooking yourself has also become impossible.. and killers are so petty and narcissistic they know this but wont admit to it.. They can honestly carry someone across the map even though that survivor hits every skill check.. with 0 effecting perks. They can move toward a hook only to have someone drop the hook and still make it to the next one. I honestly feel there are more hooks and they are closer together as Ive been hooked and could physically see two other survivors on hooks near me struggling. The Devs will not admit to this.. but it is true. There are just a few things that could set this right.. throw the survivor mains a few bones anyway.
- Slugging is an issue. Now with the FREE Mori at on the last survivor, Killers will almost always slug the final two. There should be a time period.. Once you've been put into a death state and just left… you should have an option to get back up in some form..skill check.. power bar.. something.. I'm tired of wasting time to "Bleed out" . 5 to 6 mins sometimes doing nothing… cant leave the game because that is illegal.. just gotta stay and wait..
- The Wiggle… If you're seriously not going to address this issue… just get rid of it and the perks that go with it. So dumb to have a game action that literally does nothing beneficial for the person using it. Killers have gotten so used to this they show off… they spin.. the random attack nothing to show the survivor its useless and futile to even try. They laugh because they know they have it on lock and that Devs have made it to where it is actually futile to even try.
- Get rid of the anti camp bar if your going to render it uselss.. its a damn lie to even have it. Ditch it, or take it back to how it used to be when it worked.. Devs are going to say.. it hasnt changed.. but thats also a damn lie and we all know it has.. its slower and has a hesitation and the distance has changed as well in benefit of the killer.
- For Gods sake… Face and accept the cheating you are allowing in this game. Banning someone for an hour or 6 hours is not enough. You know its happening and yet you are so light about it. Do something useful for the DBD community as one. I mean all the cheating.. Killer and Survivors. Your game is becoming worse than Call of Duty. Cheating Videos all over YouTube and TikTok. I personally clip everytime you notify me we caught one. They are on my Twitch for all to see.
- Streaming. A lot of us Stream DBD because the audience is massive. As Survivors, we cant see the name of the killer until the end. Why ? Make it so the killer can't see our names either. The Stream Sniping has gotten out of hand. Now.. Youll say.. you can always go into settings and fix this so no one can see your name and this is true, but many of my followers have become my followers from seeing my Name on DBD. I want other Survivors to see my name so they can come into my chat and say GG etc and possibly follow or more. What is good for the goose is good for the gander… If Survivors cant see the killers screen name until the end.. then the killer shouldnt be able to see Survivors Screen names until the end either. This is an unfair advantage to an already over powered character in the game and you know it is.. I beleive you made it this way and leave it this way on purpose as many have reported that a lot of DBD Devs are Killer main streamers.
This would indeed make sense if it were true. That means the Devs are running the game for killers in general to benefit themselves personally.. If they play this game with the rest of us.. you know those who use money to buy the game… buy character skins and buy new outfits etc etc.. THE PAYING CUSTOMERS.. and you know they do, and they majority are killer mains.. then it makes sense.. they are tilting the game even further for their own benefit. We are not asking for a lot.. were not asking for more speed.. or weapons.. or really anyway to fight back.. we are asking for a chance to play like we used… to at least stand some kind of a chance in this game like we used to.. We are asking for a slight amount of fairness and we are asking for a little equity in the end. Something to deter the slugging, the camping, the tunneling.. something to keep the game going and keep it fun without us just bleeding out in one spot for 10 minutes at a time waiting for it be over…. something to keep us from just disconnecting or out right just giving up.. Something to save this game before everyone says to hell with it and leave and all you have are a bunch of killer mains waiting hours in lobby hoping for 4 survivors to join. You know.. the way it was in 2 v 8… If survivors just quit… the game quits as well..
The Game has become 0 fun… Tedious even.
Take a break. Check in on the game in a few months, skim to see if the changes you want are added, and only come back if they are added. That's the best way to ensure the game's in a state you want it in.
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@tubalcane said:
I know people throw around a lot of things that they say are rights but really aren't, darn it - i want the right to see my MMR!
Thank you.
This is not a %$#^post in all seriousness, I really do want to see how good the folks are I'm playing with. If survivors can run pallet to pallet with ez loops and W-key from one side of the level to the other, I'm interested to see those scores. I expect to lose to really solid survivors who can loop, hide, sabo, etc.
Wait you want to see other people's MMR???
There's bad ideas and there's "outright validating lobby shopping and harassment on both sides" bad ideas.
If you wanna see how good your teammates and opponents are play the match and you'll find out pretty quickly.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877444#Comment_3877444
How much fun do you think it is to lose because you were forced to let the opposing team score?
- If you get into a gen-split scenario as the killer, you're up s**t creek without a paddle.
- If you get into a 3-gen scenario as a survivor, you get a special system that disables gen defense.
I've never seen such a snooty display of bias in a pvp game before, and all because one side didn't find it "fun" that the other side was putting up a fight…It's ridiculous.
BHVR outright stated that regression limit is hit in a tiny proportion of games (and 8 was picked because itd hit a tiny proportion of games).
If you're losing to the kick limit all the time, maybe work on getting value out of the kicks you're putting out, or try strategies better suited to your strengths as a killer?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877444#Comment_3877444
I apologize for the ones who play me so horribly and unfun.
It's okay, I play with a nice full chase hux build and playstyle rather than trying to make skull merchant's second round happen.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876270#Comment_3876270
- So what is your solution then? Doing the same thing they have been doing for years were they balance around the new player experience and make the killer experience awful? Balancing the game around solo queue and high level SWF is impossible. Implementing voice chat would not do anything if they added it to solo queue, (TCM proved this) seeing other people's builds before a match would just lead to lobby dodging and a ping system would do nothing except now you can ping to other survivors.
2. I believe that the devs will never implement visible MMR unless an outside force forces them to reveal said information aka Choy's video and massive reviewbombing which is very common in Online Multiplayer games. The latter forced the devs to revert the healing changes in the developer update in Marsh 2023. Those are my 2 cents on why i think feedback is useless in this game unless the majority of the community forces the devs to take actions because it impacts their game. The ColorBlind Fiasco with Almo on stream saying to a viewer that it was really "boring" to hear him blabbing about colorblind mode all the time is a another example.
- I don't need a solution to highlight that a suggested one is an awful idea. Also - killer feels totally fine at the moment, what?
- These examples suck. Most of the 6.7.0 PTBs changes to healing remain in the game. CoH still doesnt allow self healing, the Medkit self-use changes are still in the game too, the only part that did change was small numbers buffs to altruistic healing from PTB → Live. The colorblind fiasco didnt lead to meaningful changes for colorblind players. The modes we have are still total garbage and colorblind players are reliant on shaders to play the game at the same level as everyone else.
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Agreed, great job to the team that worked on it!
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@Kentlee94 said:
As other killer, add on side will included oblivious effects, blindness, or Hindered.
Actually not really fair for this killer that doesn’t apply any of there effects.
Plague has the outright strongest effect in the game available to her all the time (Broken), and her addons are unquestionably the strongest addon base of any killer in the game.
She does not need stronger still addons to function - practiced Plague players are more than capable of delivering on her strengths.
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877574#Comment_3877574
I mean in that case your abetrary standard is different from mine. Not much to say.
Do you… not want killers aiming for lockout like its the win con to be a thing of the past?
It's not an arbitrary measure, I want to interact with my opponent in any meaningful way and do so in a relatively timely manner, and 3 gen strats allow for neither, forcing an hour of the killer playing "press space at the gen simulator" whilst the survivors all mostly watch.
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877444#Comment_3877444
"And re. prerunning, it's a part of a survivor's toolkit. If you're not applying enough pressure, then the loss is deserved, especially if you're running heavy slowdown setups."
You could say the same in reverse. 3 genning is a part of the killers toolbox. If Survivors arent applying enough pressure to the right generators, then the loss is deserved.Yet 3 genning was removed from the killers toolkit, due to being too unfun.
"Sure, other unfun strats continue to exist, but why bring back this unfun strat just because they haven't gotten around to the other ones yet (and may not have clean solutions for the others at any point?)"
They havent just not gone around to it, they are buffing them. Look at sabotage or thrill of the hunt. Also, they killed Eruption twice , that is not a clean way of removing 3 genning.
Except that prerunning doesnt hand-craft 45+ minute matches of barely-interactive walking up to and then away from the same generator whilst the killer brute forces the mistakes that cost survivors the match. I don't see how the two are equivalent in scope at all.
Ditto for Thrill, really. The perk may be overtuned but its overtuned within the scope of a normal match of DBD. It isn't going to force a match duration out well beyond what is expected of the survivors queueing.
If your problem is with Eruption, advocate for buffing Eruption, not recreating a system of play that wastes everyones time for almost an hour (longer were it not for the fact that at an hour the lobby closes itself).
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@VibranToucan said:
The Generator Damage Limit was introduced way too late to a problem that didn't exist anymore. Skull Merchant had been reworked, Eruption, Call of Brine and Overcharge have been nerfed and we had moved on into the Pain Res Meta. And since then Knight has been reworked as well, and they added perks to counter 3 gens like Weaving Spiders, Dramaturgy or Specialist.
So the Perks and biggest offenders of a 3 gen strat are gone, the strategy wasn't that OP anyway and often only succeeded due to Survivors misplaying, and we have added way more counterplay. So what is the point?
All the gen kick limit does now is limit perk diversity. Killers who used to run full regression now run 2 regression perks and 2 generator block perks for basically the same. But Perks that were already nerfed into the ground, like Eruption or Call of Brine, became even worse and now you never see them outside of dedicated generator kick builds. You cannot just use Eruption because you feel like it or the game will literally punish you for it by banning you from effectivelychallenging Generators.
A strategy I see more and more when playing Killers like Trapper, Bubba or Perma Tier 3 Myers, is prerunning. Survivors will just sit on a generator, but as soon as they hear your terror radius they start running away. Undetectable perks don't help either because of them usually being SWFs so one Survivors seeing you gives you away to the whole team. This means you either need to waste tons of time catching up to them or you can damage the gen, undo their progress and repeat this later. Well it used to mean that. Now Survivors can prerun witthout consequences, as eventuall the Killer will run out of opportunities to damage the Generator. Now, the Survivors can force the Killer to spend literal minutes of a game just playing catch up without actually doing anything, meanwhile the teammates complete other generators unchallanged, or they have to watch as the generators they literally cannot damage get slowly completed.
And if that makes 3 genning a whole game a viable strategy again, so what? Eruption and Call of Brine are still dead. Overcharge is still weak. It would not be nearly as good as the current meta strategies, just useable. There are plenty of annoying and slow strategies that are allowed to run rampant, why was only 3 genning not only killed, but also had its corpse thrown into a lake of fire so that nobody can ever touch it again?
Overall, the Generator Regression Event Limit solves a problem that doesn't exist anymore, and unlocks strategies that allow to full on counter some killer, while also limiting game- and buildstyles, and unnecessarily nerfing some perks. It has no place in this game anymore.
3 genning sucks to play against. Killers like Singularity, even pre-buff, were far too adept at it and still are even with the kick limit in play. Removing it returns stall metas to the forefront, which aren't fun to play against now and wouldnt be if Eruption was brought back in. Sure, other unfun strats continue to exist, but why bring back this unfun strat just because they haven't gotten around to the other ones yet (and may not have clean solutions for the others at any point?)
And re. prerunning, it's a part of a survivor's toolkit. If you're not applying enough pressure, then the loss is deserved, especially if you're running heavy slowdown setups.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876504#Comment_3876504
I see what you're saying, and you make a good point…
However the current system is even worse for survivor, where you can loop the killer for 5 gens and still be the one to die, while the survivors who just did gens and escaped climb...
If it were possible to account for how many survivors escaped, that'd be nice. However there is this problem that a player can die early and the result of the game has to play out, and at that point where do you stop tracking it?
The weighting for survivor emblems can be adjusted, maybe count your 2 highest emblems and double everything...
Why replace a bad system with a bad system, and why weight the survivor emblems when that means admitting theres a huge problem with the way survivors pip to iri 1?
If they fixed the emblem system maybe I'd be on board, but not before.
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@Spider_X_DBD said:
Mine would be anything but Dracula, Nurse, Hillbilly, Blight and Spirit. I see those 5 killers all the time. How about you?
I don't track my SWF matches, but SoloQ only? Bubba, closely followed behind by Ghostface, Trickster and Nurse in terms of fewest seen.
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@UndeddJester said:
SBMM is a worthwhile additon to the game, but it's one problem is it's far too simple.
- For Killer it at least requires you to be competant to 4k, but it does encourage strategies that require you to kill at any cost, rather than make a game of it (and feed fear to the entity), and often it's more a measure of how sweaty you play rather than how skilful you play.
- For Survivor however often it is way off base, cause there are so many factors that make up whether you can escape or not, and a lot of them are not at all reflective of your actual skill at DBD. Often it's more a measure of how cowardly you play, instead of how skilful you play.
That said, since kills/escapes are the defining goals of the game, it still makes sense to have them as part of your MMR calculation… but it shouldn't be the only factor...
This problem is already solved!
You have the emblem system, that reward players for their contributions/performance in the match. You often can't get good emblem scores if you're playing a sweaty or lame strategy, nor if your playimg like a coward.
Why not feature emblems as part of SSBM?
After calculating the MMR diff to be rewarded for this game instead of making kills/escapes 100% of the MMR calculation, instead make the following weightings: -
Killer:
- Kills contribute up to 36% of this score.
- 0%, 9%, 18%, 27%, 36% for 0-4k respectively.
- The remaining 64% is made up of emblem scores. Each emblem is worth 16% at maximum.
- 0%, 4%, 8%, 12%, 16% for nothing, bronze, silver, gold, iri respectively.
Survivor:
- Self escape contributes up to 36% of this score.
- If queued with friends, their escapes count for a third of your overall score. Your own escape is worth 24%, and your allies are 12% divided equally between them. (12%, 6%, 4% for 1-3 friends respectively)
- The remaining 64% is made up of emblem scores. Each emblem is worth 16% at maximum.
- 0%, 4%, 8%, 12%, 16% for nothing, bronze, silver, gold, iri respectively.
This brings what you actually DO in the trial into the calculation. Escaping/Killing features prominently in your score, but if you actually want to climb, satisfying the terms of the Entities trial would be a factor for your MMR.
Few problems with this...
For killer it would mean sweaty strategies that don't score well but get a 4k don't really climb... which of course means that lower tier players bear the brunt of trolling and obnoxious playstyles...
This therefore.might be an incentive to added MMR as a visible entity to the game... as a carrot/indicator of not really satisfying the terms of the Entities trial, so is not really a "win" as far as the Entity is concerned.
There is also a need to clean up some killer power scores events... characters like Pig famously have trouble with Devious points cause there aren't many instances they can use their power effectively.
However would a system still give more benefits than detriments?
Emblems arent good indicators for how well a match went, especially for Survivor, whose emblems are split into gens, altruism, chases and not going down for some reason. You can get one or two of these categories, but provided matches are balanced you should never be recieving all four.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QTUL6O6TJ9HW/image.png
a 50% kill-rate killer will 3k or 4k, 42% of the time. the killer would barely ever win.
im in agreement that we should have a 60% kill rate… but doesnt this kill distribution show that its a 0k/1k about 44% of the time, rounded up?
2k philosophy is a huge part of the balancing point discussion, but if you think 2k = draw then this isn't necessarily poor balance.
(again, Im in agreement with you, im of the opinion that 2k = survivor win and under that philosophy 60% KR = 50% WR.)
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Deleting SWF kills the game. Outright.
idk why people forget that SWFs are the lifeblood of DBD. Content creation, matches played, so much of this game centers around SWFs.
You say the game would improve - there won't be a game to improve.
You yourself admit how many of them you go against, remove all those lobbies and think of how your queue time would tank. Also, its not "ranked matches", its pubs. This game doesn't have ranks. Hasn't had a displayed grade even in years, and hopefully we'll never get an actual ranked system either, not that this thread is about that at all.
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@dadamek8 said:
Why would someone play a multiplayer game where they're expected to lose most of their matches?
Combine it with the fact that solo queue is a massive coinflip with people disconnecting and giving up on hook.
There's just no way to enjoy the game if you play solo and actually care about winning.Playing killer became way too easy as well unless you play non-meta killers against a decent premade
There's just no way to enjoy the game if you play solo and actually care about winning.
I do. All the time, in fact. And I care enough about my winrate to track it and other stats for my solo play. Solo survivors may be more chaotic but they're also perfectly capable of winning. You do have to fully pull your own weight and sometimes you have to play around some… choice decisions from them, but that's part of the challenge, and enjoying a challenge is key to any game, no?
More broadly, if you don't enjoy the game solo, just don't play solo survivor. Games are meant to be fun, after all.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873566#Comment_3873566
- I said that people like me want to be able see their own MMR and i myself (because i can't speak for everybody else in the DBD community) would listen to the people with a high MMR rating because like i said before they would have the most credibility when it comes to talking about balance in DBD.
2. Because i still have my right to express an opinion about a thing i hold very dear to my heart in a game i play, do i not?
Except that they don't necessarily have the most credibility because what is correct for balancing for them is not correct for balancing around say, the new player experience. and considerations have to be made for both as you cannot just listen to high MMR players and hope the experience isnt awful for newbies.
Plus, you cannot trust high mmr players any more than you can trust anyone, especially in a game where reaching the upper echelons of MMR is regarded to be relatively easy. They will still make and propagate opinions that benefit only themselves or lie about the state of the game based upon their own biases.
Finally, yes, you have every right to. But at the same time, you believe this entire process to be pointless - you believe you're screaming into an abyss and hoping the abyss prints out a number above 1600. So I questioned why you bother. That's all.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876055#Comment_3876055
People always say this. How do you "exploit their weakness of altruism" when they all stack styptics, insta-heals, Unbreakable, DS, Shoulder the Burden and have sent themselves to a map with a pallet every five feet like Autohaven, Badham, Garden of Joy? Do you advise tunneling the "weak link" out? What if there is no weak link? Isn't tunneling toxic and only bad killers do that?
Easy. They don't all stack styptics, instaheals, antislug antitunnel, stb and offering.
I don't deny that those groups exist, but the solution lies in addressing the problems with those tools themselves, not punishing SWFs for existing.
My advice for you is to check for negativity and confirmation bias when recalling your experiences of matches, especially about parts of the game that are speculative, like if you're vsing a SWF or Solos.
Also, if there, quote, "is no weak link", you deserve the loss. All four survivors eclipse you in skill.
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@MooGoesTheTree said:
9 years later and SWF is still untouched. It's asinine to ignore the issue when they got all the tools and experience in hand. Killer leaving the first chase only for the killer to get outchased again by another because there is no weak link in the group.
4 or 3 good players can already decide the outcome for the match. If 2 and 2 survivor parties in a group are evenly matched, or sometimes even 4 solo queue survivors? Good luck, killer, you'll need it.
It's about time for SWF to receive some nerfs. Debuffing the team is the only option.
Altruism. Their weakness is altruism.
If you got outplayed by multiple players in a row, you should take a huge hit to your outlook of winning the game for it.
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@sinisterstubbs77 said:
This is so out of hand. Gen rushing, tea-bagging, body blocking, and they also get to communicate, which according to BHVR isn't in game for a reason, but nothing is done about 3rd party apps. It's unbalanced, no fun, and outright stupid.
Teabagging I get but… taking hits for each other (intended mechanic, see: Forced Penance, Mettle of Man, etc) doing gens (intended mechanic, it's the survivor win condition) and talking on Discord?
Do… you want survivors in SWF to have to not speak to each other? That… sounds like a real surefire way to kill the game, ngl.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875826#Comment_3875826
I want the range to be better to give her options OTHER than camping and 3-genning.
And the speed boost because survivors will literally just trigger them and spam S so you waste a trap. They call it The S "tech".
But it would make her better at camping and 3 genning too, so why would they fix what isn't broken for them as a playerbase?
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@SoGo said:
I would like Hag to get a bigger teleport range and a speed boost for a few seconds after teleporting to a trap. 10-15% would be ideal for that.
Wait, you want her to be better at camping and neutralise the basekit bt haste speed difference so she can tunnel better too?
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@TheRealChessBoy said:
I get it, new chapters are cool and fun, brings in a lot of money for the game as well, but I'd rather have more balance changes and bug fixes for the existing content and do with 1 or 2 less DLC's a year. There are so many bugs in this game and many maps, perks, items and offerings are just outdated. If BHVR can reorganise their spaghetti code a bit they probably save a lot more resources putting bandaid fixes in the future imo.
Executives would throw all their toys out the pram. The game's goal is to make money, not be playable.
I agree the game needs to be given more time to fix bugs and issues with the game but the devs will never be given the time to prioritize that over making money.
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I would prefer to not have to learn 40+ new powers with an entire meta arising around which survivors have ones that do anything and which survivors have ones that are useless.
The survivors being mostly cosmetic is totally fine. We don't need a layer of complexity for them.
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@Testoviron said:
Players have no incentive to stay in a match (bloodpoints are WORTHLESS), and there's nothing to discourage them from leaving.
Matches are also often (considered to be) a foregone conclusion, because the meta for killers is to snowball as hard as possible, in the least fun way possible - by killing a survivor ASAP. It's not the killers' fault, it's just how the game is designed.
So if a survivor feels like a match is going to go poorly for them (someone got downed quickly, the map is hard to play on, the killer is frustrating to face, etc), they prefer to save themselves some time and frustration and go next. And there's no reason for them not to.
So what to do about this issue? The answer is twofold.
1. Give survivors hope. Give them hope that they can escape even if the match is going poorly.
>How though?
By discouraging kill-based snowballing (slugging, tunnelling) and incentivising putting pressure on the entire survivor team.
>And how do you do that?
By making killer wins based on hooks instead of kills (no reason to slug or tunnel if it doesn't win you the game), and by giving the killer bonuses, rewards for hooking (like Grim Embrace does.)
A rubberband mechanic for survivors AND killers would also be a healthy addition to the game. A survivor dying shouldn't drag the rest of the team down with him.
2. Give players a reason to win.
Currently, it is pretty immaterial to a survivor whether or not he or his teammates survive the trial. There are no rewards for surviving. He doesn't miss out on anything by going next.
There's also theoretically no reason for the killer to hook even if hooks are the win condition. You don't get anything for hooking survivors, and killing them might very well be more satisfying to you than meaningless "winning" with no reward.
If there was a ranking system where you could receive cosmetics, charms, status symbols (your rank displayed next to your name), winning would actually mean something.
I think this is what it comes down to.
With such additions, it would also make sense to implement far harsher penalties for going AFK/giving up/disconnecting, to punish trolls who give up no matter what.This is my take on it. Incoherent rant over.
There is no fix. It's a community entitlement issue that won't go away with BHVR making Survivor more "fair" because people will still perceive their situation as unfair as a method of covering for their own shortcomings as a player.
Just making a win based on hooks doesn't affect anything, because tunneling is still the most efficient way to build up hooks. A fresh unhook, provided the killer zoned and played macro right, should be in a relative deadzone and be injured - the re-down, even through antitunnel, should be easier than chasing someone fresh.
Rewarding the survivors for losing a teammate incentivises intentionally failing teammates if they aren't performing, and it also further incentivises slugging because you can keep a survivor in a useless spot that isn't also giving your opponent a buff for completing your stated objective.
Ranking systems would make the entire game less fun because at that point you're being outright punished for running anything remotely fun instead of what is best. So now we're just consolidating the game even more on top tier loadouts and killers, making the game feel stale and more unwinnbale than it already does for these players.