Comments

• @Aven_Fallen said:

  SWFs have weaknesses. And the weakness are the individual players. 99% of SWFs are not on that level you want to claim they are. You will not lose a game because the Survivors are playing in an SWF. You will lose a game if the Survivors are better than you - and then you would have probably lost against the same Survivors if they were all SoloQ.

  You will not have 4 players who play perfectly in every match, even when they are in an SWF. And SWF does not suddenly make bad players good.

  Then explain to me why I get teams that know exactly how to loop? You can't because you simply believe that every SWF isn't good and compare them to solo queue players despite SWF using comms.

  BHVR loves to buff killers because they thought it was a good idea to bring solo queue in par with SWF. Now look what solo queue have to deal with overbuffed killers all because SWF remains untouched. BHVR's decision making makes me laugh.

  If they nerfed SWF, killers never needed the buffs in the first place and neither did solo queue need changes. It's all for naught.

  BHVR and SWF are responsible for this. BHVR for deciding it. SWF for defending it.

  in SWF is OP because they have no weaknesses Comment by MooGoesTheTree January 25, 2025

• @Nomade said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875920#Comment_3875920

  People do talk about it. There have even been videos made about this very subject. The big problem though is that if you start to even suggest nerfing SWF you get loads of people who will come out and just jump on you and make you out to be this horrible, evil villain. They will make non arguments like "So I have to be nerfed because I want to play with my friends" when literally the exact same argument can be made for everyone else. That flip argument being "So we have to suffer with impossible to balance game design and constant over buffing and over nerfing of perks because you want SWFs to remain unnerfed.
  
  You are completly correect in saying that SWF is a real issue for the game, and it is somthing that really does need a lot more discussion. SWF can either be on a reasonable power level which is most SWFs if we are being honest (and I prefer to be honest), but then you also have some groups that exist on the extreme end of skill or even higher end of skill which may comprise lets say 10-20% of SWFs (thats just a guess, dont get mad), where they are able to stack all the same perks, and completly break the game, walking away with 90% or better win rates. Top SWFs are just about impossible for killer to win against and that is a real problem.
  
  You can not balance a game where you have solo Q at an average skill leveel of lets say 20/100 and then high end SWF being 100/100. Its too big of a gap. The difference between the two is so vast that high end SWFs are essentially playing an entirely different game.
  
  So yes, I absolutly agree with you and I think this is a super important and worthwhile discussion to have.
  
  The big question is how do we come up with a solution to this that is both as clean as possible and also doesn't totally destroy the game for people playing in SWFs? It is a super difficult thing to come up with solutions for. Anything you do is going to lead to the SWF people being mad and complaining about being punished for playing with their friends (even if that argument is highly manipulative, and extremely flimsy, they are trying to play on the emotions of folks genuinly looking to improve the game balance for both sides).
  
  Just like any other situation, you work towards finding a solution by first identifying what the real problems are, and then you can begin to brainstorm.

  @xGodSendDeath said:

  I don't know why more people haven't put it together that SWF existing the way it does without any nerfs is the main reason why solo queue is so bad. Back when the game was more survivor-sided people literally just wouldn't play killer and the queues were 10 - 15 minutes to play survivor easy. The devs had to start buffing killers and nerfing survivor to bring SWF and killer closer together or the game was straight up going to die. The best thing to do would have been to do targeted nerfs at SWF to equalize being able to stack perks and communication but everyone cried that was "punishing people for playing with their friends" so now solo queue just gets to eat it and be cannon fodder

  @KerJuice said:

  https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875933#Comment_3875933

  Well said. There is a reason most games do not show you who is playing in a party of friends; it’s because the opposition would not want to go against them. If the option is available, a lot of players would choose to back out of the game before it starts- or quit mid-match when it’s obvious you’re getting stomped due to callouts.

  Any nerf to Survivor or Buff to killer, merely inconveniences SWF’s in DBD’s case. So for killers, going against SWF’s barely moves the needle- while playing against solos is easy mode, which easily gets boring (for me at least). For solo que survivors, the game gets more and more difficult with every change. Perks that would help the solo Que experience get nerfed (sometimes immediately after PTB’s) because of fear they will get abused or would be too powerful with other coordinated perks in a SWF (looking at you, Reaasurance). No amount of nerfed survivor perks or buffed killer mechanics can hold a candle to a well oiled SWF. Comms trumps all. I do not understand why the minority of the player base is being catered to. SWF’s make this game miserable for Killers and solo que survivors.

  My suggestion? Overhaul the “Kill with Friends” game mode and make it fully customizable in every option imaginable. Want old DS & Dead Hard back? Boom- done. Unbreakable basekit? Done. Mechanics that make camping and tunneling useless? You got it. Regulate the SWF’s to this game mode; let them find a 5th friend or create a post to get someone to play killer. Keep the main mode for Killers and Solo Survivors, then balance the game around those two demographics- which are the majority of the player base.

  “BRINGING SOLO QUE CLOSER IN LINE TO SWF’S” is NOT the answer. Again, friends with comms trumps EVERYTHING. There is no amount of on screen UI information that will get solo’s close to SWF’s. Simply stating who is going to stay on gens, who is going for the save, what pallet to get downed on, what stealth killer is nearby waiting for the unhook, etc. etc. CAN NOT BE COMMUNICATED IN REAL TIME THROUGH A UI.

  And as far as my favorite excuse goes: “SO I HAVE TO BE PUNISHED TO PLAY WITH MY FRIENDS??” Here’s my rebuttal: so game balancing, solo’s, and killers ALL have to suffer because SWF’s have real time, on the fly, verbal communication? This is why I recommend making KWF fully customizable and overhauled.

  You know what’s funny (or sad depending on how you look at it)? I bet if all SWF’s were limited to Kill with Friends, NOT one of them would want to play as the killer. Not even if they were to take turns. Hell, most would probably not play at all and quit the game. You know why? Because they know when it’s their turn to play killer they are going to get stomped and/or be stressed the hell out. Either way, they won’t be having much fun at that point. That’s pretty telling and says it all…

  SWF is slowly killing this game and BHVR does absolutely nothing about it except they make the decision to bring solo queue as close as possible to SWF. It doesn't make sense whatsoever most solo queue players will never be in SWF levels. SWF keeps getting stronger and stronger.

  in Enough with the SWF toxicity. Comment by MooGoesTheTree January 25, 2025