kit_mason
kit_mason
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898819#Comment_3898819
And what exact type of response do you want? You've formed your question as a rhetorical statement, and you've clearly already made up your mind about the subject. While you're technically correct, it's an entirely moot point. I didn't have to strawman anything. Your position was already incredibly flimsy.
The fact is that the current singularity chase mechanics are broken beyond belief. This should not be up for debate, and this needs addressing. Speaking of dodging concerns, like the literal entire point of this thread, you're guilty of just that. And your excuse is "well, they will just 3gen instead!"
And here's why your 3genning concerns are unfounded:
- The 8 kick limit, which was implemented to help stop the endless hostage situations. There was an update which put quite a limit on the 3gen situation a while ago, in case you missed it.
- The change I suggested ALSO helps alleviate the 3gen situation. When survivors use an EMP to disable a pod near one of the generators singularity is guarding, he wouldn't be able to replace it and then immediately tag a survivor.
- A weaker chase in general also directly correlates to a weaker ability to hold a 3gen. Because in order to accomplish anything, the killer has to secure injures and downs, which means they need to win chases at some point.
Anyway, why your point is moot. Logically if the killer can't just blitz through pallets, ignore windows, and end chases insanely quickly, then yes, they will of course have to fall back on.. you know… actually using strategy. Is trying to hold a 3gen part of that strategy? Absolutely. Do survivors not like it when killers hold a 3gen? Of course.
But do you know what survivors hate even more than 3gens? Wasting tons of time to get an EMP and use it, just for it to do absolutely nothing. Mindgaming the killer and totally saucing them at a tile, only for it not to matter in the slightest as he teleports right behind them for the umpteenth time. In short, survivors hate entering matches where they have zero chance to win and facing killers with BS powers that have no counter play. See: twins.
Ah. I need to tell you.
We're done here. Have fun chatting with others.
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@Fyora said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898790#Comment_3898790
It's completely normal to have 3k hours in the game and end up playing with people who have the same amount of hours but aren't good and are inexperienced. There are many people in your situation! There's nothing to be ashamed of! xd
I get that being confidently wrong as a method of being outright rude to strangers is something you find fun, but the MMR system isnt all that heavily bracketed really once you break a couple of good matches. Look at how fast new account winstreaks get them into the regular pool of players.
If your queue is long, maybe you're just playing at quiet times of day or on a smaller server?
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@kiler333 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898841#Comment_3898841
Taking into account the fact that this game is so old at this point streamers should be an afterthought . Sure they used to bring players in but after a game is out for so long, do you really believe that's what brings the majority of new players? No, the majority of new players are " the kids that grew up", the players that moved from other games to this out of pure curiosity. Make the game to annoying and lose your player base. Lets use the example of the killer that almost killed DBD. Legion. YES Legion. The fun yet somewhat weak killer used to be a terror in the past. WHY? Because his rclick didn't have a downside to hitting the same survivor and he could single out a player and kill them. Why did BHVR change him? Because 1 survivors didn't want to play against him and 2 longer wait for killer since having a "I win button" killer means more want to play him.
Another thing, if the game is so popular why does it have a increase in player count only during an event and outside of that a constant drop? On average they have a high gain during events and then for 3 months or so they have a constant drop. On average what they gain today they lose in 3 months (more or less). So no, streamers are their least of their problems.
A consistent inflow of new people is necessary for a game's long-term survival.
The game bleeds in player count between events because events drive player retention. They don't want the normal 1v4 experience but something to switch it up or bring something new keeps them interested.
Anyway, no. MMR Cap is a good idea, nobody should have to wait 30-60 minutes for a single match of DBD. If you're losing a lot, use those matches as a learning experience. Walk away knowing what mistakes you made and have an idea of how to not make them next time.
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If it didn't exist what's the win con for the last survivor at multiple gens left, exactly?
Plus, it's a fun way to give DBD a final girl style outcome.
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898819#Comment_3898819
I guess we can all shut up as you want and stop complaining about a killer who can spam his power with no brain usage. Since you are so bloody happy with it you can have it your way man. Have fun playing against singularity with your so coordinated survivor friend squad and your oh so skilled hands. We will just continue discussing the problems while you ignore them and have fun being chased by a current singularity or better yet you can play him and apply the same braindead tactic of spamming slipstreams and breaking everything.
@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898450#Comment_3898450
Yeah thanks for being honest I personally haven't played him but I've had a few games with him it does not take much to actually notice what is wrong with him since most singularities indeed just spam pods and slipstream you and tp until you die.
You should probably decide if I'm happy with hux or not before you dedicate two different posts to telling me that i'm happy with him|unhappy with him.
I think he needs retuning away from his power acting as a zoning tool because it keeps validating him playing 3 gen strategies. OP dodged this point repeatedly, so I expressed that the conversation was over becuase they're uninterested in actually engaging with me on any level.
I'm not happy with hux. I've not been happy with hux since he released, and have advocated for nerfs for nearly 2 years now. But the changes suggested by OP are not the nerfs he needs to be healthy. They're nerfs that will encourage an unhealthy strategy that he's already too good at.
I get that pallet blitzing can be frustrating, especially on a rarer killer with a skilled playerbase. But trying to force zoning tools on a killer that has the option to refuse interacting with chases entirely is not the solution. Maybe it could be, if 3 genning strategies weren't the norm on hux post-buff. But they are.
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@MoZo said:
I’m so tired of seeing pain res and pop, it is every. single. game. Can bhvr PLEASE buff other regression perks or at least buff base regression? These perks have ran the killer meta for 3 going on 4 years straight. Can the devs please buff back ruin, call of brine and overcharge? I would take Increased regression any day of the week over just instant progress deletion like pain res and pop. I know killer players probably want different perks to run too instead of pain res and pop every game. The variety is very lacking and I don’t blame the killer players either, who wants to go into a match with mediocre perks and get gen rushed when you can run pain res, pop, grim and corrupt to guarantee the game will end at 2 gens remaining? It doesn’t feel like every game is different when I see the same 2-3 perks every single game. At least for survivor there’s a lot of build varieties and the perks in the categories are strong enough to where u don’t need to stack them.
meta shakeup
buff other regression
killer has had one meta since the release of Hag. slowdown.
I agree killer needs a meta shakeup, but I think that's because it's never had a meaningful meta shakeup. It's just been slowdown with a revolving door of perks.
It'd be nice if the devs found a way to tune slowdown and speedup to make them both feel less neccesary, but buffing more regression just keeps the revolving door moving.
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you realise this could be used to brute force the anticheat's parameters and then circumvent them, right?
that's why cheaters are banned in waves, and not in direct response to an action they perform.
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@Jexckmgn5 said:
And I mean no charms or other stuff I mean a literal killer that resembles or is a spider. It's such an easy choice for a horrific killer. I hope to live long enough to witness it.
plague and clown keep being controversial by being so closely tied to phobias that make the game significantly harder to play.
plus, they've already toyed with killers that can slingshot themselves across the map (kaneki, kind of wesker too actually) and slow you down (a good chunk of the zoning roster has hinders, or wesker if you want it as a debuff) so the concepts that would make a spider killer clearly can be translated into other killer concepts.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898492#Comment_3898492
Gee I guess you're right. Any nerf to any kind of "chase" whatsoever, no matter how broken, clearly incentivizes keeping a 3gen hostage!
So you've:
- dodged cocnerns about encouraging 3 genning every time its been brought up
- strawmanned my position
Do I need to tell you we're done here, or can this just be the end of it?
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@Jtflorencio said:
Ideas for the next PTB
Killers Buffs:
The Pig: Buff the Ambush (M2) Duration/Speed // Or // up/down (tbag) 20% faster (and the addon stays at 10%)
Ghost Face: when marking a survivor, he gets 5% Haste for 5 seconds // The addon (drop leg) reduces speed to 5% but gives you an extra 2 seconds (7 seconds total)
Skull Merchant: Make the Drones all roll at the same time instead of selecting 1 by 1 (and you don't have to look at the drone when doing it) /// Slightly increase the speed of the dronesKillers Nerfs:
Try to test Blight and Billy (killers with a lot of map control to make them 4.5) I repeat trying it with 4.5Perks:
Fire Up (Rework/Buff)
Start with 1 token, each token is 5%
5/10/15/20/25/30
This way the Perk would be less risky to use because this perk is completely useless/weak before 4tokens...Nerfing Blight and Billy's movement speed (especially by an amount that little) will do next to nothing because most of their actual gameplay is spent within power. This is true for blight especially.
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@languege said:
There is such a small problem in your beautiful game - a party with communication via discord, etc. This hits the balance very hard, since having information about finding mana for each survivor is equivalent to a constant illuminated aura of a maniac, which is not good. I propose to introduce such a parameter - single surveyors . When you're looking for a survivor party, you're guaranteed to come across solo players. Why should it be added? And it's simple - the chance of winning drops significantly against a party with discord, namely, from 100 games you are unlikely to kill 4 survivors even in one. If you want to add an anticamp and antitunneling, then why not add this parameter so that everything is fair?
You already don't know if you're vsing a SWF or not, which means that you're presuming the teams you're losing to are SWFs.
Work on your own play. 99% of pub survivors are beatable with even mediocre builds on weak killers. I promise you don't need to filter down to SoloQ only to win.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898432#Comment_3898432
This is actually wrong because it is guaranteed that the singularity has OTHER pods on the map. It is very possible that when singularity shuts down a tile and scares a survivor away by placing a pod on it, that they could still be pushed into another pod that has already existed. And thus the actual game of planning, cat and mouse, and the team coming in with EMPs actually becomes relevant again.
Singularity can still be a pallet blitzer when he chases a survivor with a slipstream on their back. The only thing I am "creating" (or more accurately advocating for since I am not a dev) is to stop this brainded tactic of singularity instantly putting pods on survivors with no recourse and spamming their power more during chase with no counter.
Does it or does it not disincentiivse chase playstyles by making them harder and more work to get value out of and in turn incentivise 3 gen strategies that the community has repeatedly and constantly signalled they despise?
You're right that it will make them play setup. Just not the kind you mean.
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all the people playing no should probably quit playing soloq? or… the game as a whole, even.
games are meant to be fun. y'all seem to have forgotten that part along the way.
plus, if you do uninstall, it might actually result in a push to make the game more fun from the player numbers dropping?
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898108#Comment_3898108
Agreed he needs a nerf of sorts for sure but you just wait for the Singularity defenders to come here later and say how wrong we are because if we have emps we can shut his power down for good as if he can't replace it within 10 seconds. The only good thing emps do is prevent him from teleporting to the other side of the map if he sees you doing a generator but he can definitely hold a 3 gen if he wants to. He can also as we all said spam his pods until he can teleport to you for eternity. I even gave the situation of playing with a friend once and the only reason he lasted longer than 30 seconds was cause I knew where he was and used emp to get him more time. Literally against this killer you can't do anything cause he does everything fast and can teleport to your ass
EMPs haven't really even prevented map pressure since the first round of nerfs they got. I've been saying they've needed buffs for well over a year now.
I've spent frankly way too long dealing with people that want hux to be in the state he's in. I just want the killer I play to be healthy. Apparently that's a huge ask.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898108#Comment_3898108
The issue I am pointing out is Singularity's ability to instantly re-tag a survivor mid-chase. It honestly does not matter if you double the amount of EMP chests, create them faster, and widen the EMP range. As soon as you get a slipstream off your back, the singularity can just place a new pod and reapply slipsteam in literally half a second. I even just saw a video of a guy playing singularity. Switches to camera in shack, tags a survivor that is healing. They EMP. He walks up to shack window, replaces the disabled pod, and slipstreams them again in the span of a second. What a joke!
But then the other problem with making too many EMPs available and with a bigger range is then the singularity loses their map presence. I mean, there was a reason this killer was buffed, but I think the whole thing where it can keep reapplying slipsteam mid-chase has been overlooked and makes the killer way too strong.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898123#Comment_3898123
Well the problem with that is there's only so many pallets on a map. And even if comp dropping every pallet typically buys enough time for a pro team running 4 brand new part commodious tool boxes, Singularity is different because he breaks predropped pallets faster than brutal strength + fireup on steroids, and then what little distance you do make he just shoots you and catches up.
And again my main gripe is that no matter how well you play, no matter how badly you bamboozle this robot, it does not matter because Singularity always has this built-in catch up mechanic that cannot be countered. Using EMPs kinda works to keep it away when it is across the map and busy, but they do absolutely nothing when you are being chased.
The issue you are creating with your post is worsening the Singularity's contributions to health by forcing him into playing Chess. You're creating a killer that is forced to 3 gen because you have made chase singularity a traditional zoner that loses to leave tile → leave tile → leave tile rather than a pallet blitzer.
3 genning sucks to play against, and it's boring as hell to play for most people. Given how it went for Skull Merchant, it'd also likely validate people harassing hux players. I don't see how this improves Hux in any direction.
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I agree that he's strong (maybe not quite top 1 strong but a very solid top 5 contender) but your suggestion only emboldens 3 gen strategies which are unhealthy enough as is.
Instead of a biopod that takes 10 seconds to turn on, buff EMP availability and use range, and it'll be a huge step in the right direction. It makes getting rid of Slipstream easier because more survivors have EMPs faster and can more quickly use them to help in chase.
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@EliteTertle said:
I've just bought the houndmaster. trying to LEARN this killer right? well every single game is stacked medkits, stacked toolboxes, and map offerings. it just feels so bad man. I'm running some regression, but its never enough. I feel like the only way I could compete with survivors is by instadowning all of them. I like how most good regression perks have been nerfed, but to compensate, base regression, and base generator times have been also nerfed. But I still think with the ease of access to commodus toolboxes, it's too much. generators take forever solo, and it feels boring, but have a friend with prove, deja vu, resiliance, or built to last, they just fly. and all you can do is bring 4 slowdown, and that just sucks to do. I want to get value from other perks. Like I've enjoyed BBQ or Rapid Brutality on Houndmaster. but idk if my Houndmaster just started off with comp team MMR or there's just too many things buffing gen speeds.
You're misplaying becuase you're new to the killer you're playing and that's going to result in you losing. That's part of the process of learning, and also how the game works - mistakes are punished.
Sure, maybe the MMR has too tight a band on killer MMR approximations, but your problem should be with that - "New Killer MMR is too high", not the speed of generators in matches you are destined to make a lot of mistakes in.
Once your grasp of Houndmaster is better, her strength will kick in and you could run nothing and still dominate most pub lobbies, even the ones with good builds. I promise.
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@ralecgos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897549#Comment_3897549
People keep bringing up the issue of “their region might not have a dedicated server”. Okay so this is valid but not even a good argument anyway. The point is moot in relation to the topic at hand which is the game outright rewards high ping killers.
These regions are ALSO impacted when they play survivor against high ping killers, because of the clear advantage playing a killer on high ping brings. I’ve heard of the complaints from the playerbase in the Middle East/West Asian locations that wish they could get servers there so they didn’t have to deal with high ping either!
Should there be more servers in countries, regions, and places that do not have one? Yes! BHVR absolutely should expand their server locations. But even if every single region in the world had a server, there would still be high ping abusers until BHVR changes the way hit validation works. That’s just a fact.
It wasn't an argument, because I'm agreeing with you. I just wanted to add that we should also make further improvements so that high ping play is a non-point, rather than a punishment for players with high ping or without.
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I think the game should favor the group with lower ping where possible, but I do think a very significant effort should be made to reduce the outcome of ping on matches generally. People living in regions without a dedicated server shouldn't be hindered by the place they live, just as they shouldn't be helped by it either.
I'm no expert, so I apologise to the BHVR employee collating thoughts on this that I don't have more to work with, but I'm sure there's some genius way to make the ping less of a decider, especially in egregious cases like 200ms+
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They should just delete antifacecamp rather than continuing to pretend it does anything. A bubba stood at 16m can just walk up when he sees a survivor for the instadown. It makes zero difference.
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@Na1ts1rhc said:
Maybe I'm a trash killer stuck in bottom of the barrel dumpster mmr. Maybe it doesn't matter? Either way I've noticed that I get looped insanely efficiently by bots as opposed to players. To as point where it feels like straight up walling. At times bots will perfectly mirror me at powerful pallets / tiles and maybe I'm missing some mind game forbidden knowledge but it doesn't feel very fair to me. I will say in defense of the survivors, It's nice to have a leg up with a wall bot after one of your baby rager teammates leaves due to the slightest inconvenience. But It's disheartening to see as a killer main. "Well the survivor that kept running in front of me during chase left, now I have to deal with the T-1000 of dbd looping fml"
Bots function by a specific set of rules that can be learned and exploited. They do have wall, first of all. Do not mindgame them. What makes up for this is their preference to loop themselves into edgemap and to predrop and spam-vault literally everything, letting you make them waste good pallets or make them spam vault a window you then down them at.
They're also not particularly great at macro, often pushing gens you want to leave for last or repeatedly missing skill checks, alerting the killer to key gens being worked. They're timid, avoiding the Killer if they can which often leads to them spending time being dead weight if the killer is close to key objectives.
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@AngelKittyTGA said:
Pardon for my boldness, but before the 8.3.0 patch Distortion was an a amazing perk, but now its a bit of a disappointment. Since the patch, Ive been seeing more killers using aura perks and unless your in constant active chase, for 30 and the killer isnt toxic, ( being EXTREMELY polite about this) your in deep water. Ive been watching these last few months and the killers are Abusing that. I really dont wanna ask too much because I know game development is rough especially when it comes to bugs, believe me Im learning it now and its rough stuff, Im just asking if theres a possibility for the perk to somewhat go back to its former glory with only being in the radius, not chase. Not sure if theres anyone else bummed about distortion but Im one of them. Hope this gets some attention.
Honestly? Keep distortion how it is, and add Revealed from 2v8.
That way, sure, there's an aura in play, but you know it's there so you can play around that.
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@Sakura_Arisawa said:
And I guess this Post is Pointless because no know what i mean… No one take care about Killer because this Community looks right now Anti Killer Frindly in the Forum, the only thing what matter looks like oh we want this or this for Survivor and they get it because they Cry… I am Realy dissapointed Right now from this Forum…
If i can't delete this Post someone of the Admins can do…saying this when a lot of the forums the last few days have been talking about oni 180ing (which did end up getting backwalked on) and the state of xeno on ptb being very poor is interesting to say the least
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Posts like this are just so pointless. You won but still want SWFs punished bc you wanted the win to be easier.
This SWF gave you a challenge you had to match. You should celebrate that.
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@Jovanesco said:
Those killers the fans love most just keep getting nerfed, (recently xeno) and those that no one really cares about (except for an easy win) keep getting buffs (legion).
This is weird bc we would all love to see more frequently those iconic killers, (this are the ones that make DBD as popular as it is) but no one ever chooses them bc they are just too weak.Like Xenomorph with the recent nerfs, the same goes for Pyramid Head, The Pig, Demogorgon, Ghost face, and others (tho, some people might disagree in power tier, they are clearly the least selected ones)
I want to remark that this was supposed to be an horror game. And legion besides not being scary at all is one of the most annoying killers to play against (no surv ever wants to play against legion, but dunno why devs seems to love it).
Just an opinion, open to discusion.Legion is the fifth most popular killer in the game according to Nightlight and Xeno is the fourth least popular in the same listing.
The last time we got a killer popularity ranking officially was Unknown's release, but Legion was fourth in that list. I get that you don't like Legion and you do like Xenomorph, but presuming it's a popularity contest where they nerf the ones people like simply doesn't hold.
We can't even say they nerf the ones nobody likes either - Singularity's pick rate is in the dirt right next to Xenomorph, and he got buffed. It's more easily presumed that BHVR nerfs what they think is too strong and buffs what they think is too weak, even if sometimes the way they do that fails to meet expectations or properly address the problem at hand (like they have with Xeno's changes).
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It's random. Sometimes you'll get the same maps in a cycle, like rolling the same number on a 6-sided die before you see all the numbers.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895718#Comment_3895718
While I agree that this new killer probably doesn't need any buffs, or at least not any noteable ones, Houndmaster and Singularity seem like weird examples, because they definitely needed buffs from the ptb.
I'll keep this quick cuz I don't want to derail a Ghoul post and I don't think you do either, but imo:
Singularity needed small tuning changes to make him worse at slugging and maybe a compensatory soma partial basekit (not to be confused the giant change set he ended up getting which made him better at slugging, as well as 3 genning, tunneling, etc) and Houndmaster only needed bugfixing. I played both, P100d the former and committed over a year to trying to prevent the buffs I knew was coming, and now both are too strong to have any fun with.
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@KuroTin99 said:
His power is a survivor power, i can't understand how the devs thought it was a good idea to make a power that STUNS THE KILLER for 3 WHOLE SECONDS?! I mean if he is like Blight that can put survivors on the ground cool
But he just jumps and attacks, doesn't downsThis guy needs, literally, either a rework or the biggest buffs ever in this game
It has been one day. A killer is allowed to be complicated before y'all come sprinting to the forums begging for buffs to a killer that likely doesn't need them, like folks did with Houndmaster and Singularity.
Seriously, please can we start letting things settle before we overbuff them?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895371#Comment_3895371
And as someone said earlier, they're adding KB&M for consoles. So… this makes zero sense.
Friend hypothesizes they are trying to lower the player pool so there's reason to bring in dbd2 with a new engine, code, etc.
Im not sure Im on board with that, as that gives BHVR a LOT of credit. But I suppose anything is possible.
Them adding KB&M for consoles doesn't mean everyone's gonna stop using controller. Some people can't use M&KB for one reason or another.
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Why not display the MMR in the scoreboard at the end so we know exactly what we are up against?
Public MMR only opens up the way to harassment, minmaxing MMR gains and constant complaints to the devs about how they think [x] or [y] metric should matter for MMR more or less because they think the number matters for anything.
I know that in 20 or so 2v8 matches I was with the same 5 players and I am like, sure there are no other players playing this game.
During February, the game hovered 50,000 concurrent players on Steam alone for the entirety of 2v8. Perhaps you ran into the same SWF repeatedly as you were all re-queueing at the same time, or you are playing on a smaller server?
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@theonryo123 said:
I can’t even run ruin for god sake’s because it gets cleansed literally when the match starts. Survivors have it so easy to find totem spawns way too easy. They do have survivor totem perks like boons, inner strength, etc. Hex totems get cleansed way too often. The devs need to do a better job changing the positions of where totem spawns. Because they spawn in obvious areas where survivors can easily cleansed it right there and then.
I think it's super reasonable that they could do a pass of some hexes, and give them new conditions that lights a totem. Ones with stacks I think are the easiest - the totem doesn't light until the perk has a stack.
Ruin is tough because you want it to work but also not light the moment the match starts, and ruin checking would become the norm if you added "it doesnt light until it shows to survivors". Maybe the totem blocks under certain restrictions (first x gen(s) pop, corrupt rules, something like that?), so survivors can find it and know where it is, but they can't do anything about it in the earlygame?
I think that'd do a lot for a Hex's usability, just to give killers a guarantee of at least some value before it goes away.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895312#Comment_3895312
180s make him too powerful?
A killer that is M1 for the most part and hardcore relies on basic M1 chase rules to be even able to earn his power (which can be abused by survivors in order to delay his first hit by significant margin to the point where he gets power too late) and has a power that is supposed to be strong (he is already strong in his power with or without 180s) is somehow too strong just because of 180s?
Are we even playing the same game?
He has a rough early because he's a snowball killer. You play Oni so there's no way you don't know that. He's M1 for the early but should build enough pressure to mostly keep his power in mid and late game. You build for this outcome in Oni games.
To imply that this weak early being leveraged by survivors is justification for keeping an exploit only usable by certain Oni players makes little sense to me, so I hope I'm misunderstanding you.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895035#Comment_3895035
there are many bugs/glitches/unintended mechanics in games that were never changed by devs because they were fun and had skill aspect behind them, pure example are bhopping and surfing in CS games
Am I missing something? When did I bring up "oh well if it was fun for the Oni then I'd change my mind"? You're the second person to respond this way.
It provides a benefit only to the subset of Oni players that are KB+M and makes him too powerful. It deserves to be removed.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895035#Comment_3895035
Can we stop this "its a tech when I use it, an exploit when you do" tribalism in the community? Regardless of how any of us feel about flicks and/or how intentional they are/were, it is a fact that skill expression is hurt by this change, and on a killer who was not even top tier (let alone being so due to the tech specifically.) People stating that Oni's skill expression was reduced by this change are not wrong, as there is nothing about this change that would give him more potential, only less.
This is all before getting into any type of talk about how/when glitches (and even outright exploits) become intentional mechanics after the fact, ranging from combos in fighting games to rocket jumping or bunny hopping in various FPS to looping in this very game. Call everything unintentional an exploit even when it benefits you, or reserve the term for things that actually break the game like OoB/unreachable locations. Or even bugs (that have since been patched thankfully) like clipping into lockers or backpack nurse before the m2 change to her blink attack.
This post is neither for nor against the removal of Oni's flick. That said I do think it should come with compensatory buffs that help high skilled play, as skill expression is something this game desperately needs more of in general. Maybe someday.
As I said in my original post, it's an exploit because it is both unintended and unfair. Firstly, in the traditional sense: my own play both as and against Oni makes me believe he is very well balanced without 180ing and too powerful when using it, but secondly in the sense that it is unfair for controller players that Oni continues to exist in a state where they cannot under any cirucmstances utilize the same resources in power that a mouse and keyboard player can.
I sincerely apologise for whatever I did that made you think I was speaking with the intent to leave Oni in an undeservedly weak state - what that act was, I would hope you would share, so I don't come across as biased like that again.
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@redhat74 said:
Possibly that BHVR are making killer as boring as possible.
Taking from that the 2v8 there were numerous people interested in playing killer they couldn't get enough people to play survivor so instill that believe in 1v4 making killers almost pointless to play.Why do BHVR constantly look to keep this golden goose alive but make terrible decisions, even the fog whispers are… who, whats their name again streamers that tick a box
Elaborate. Why make a thread where you just say terrible decisions are happening but then don't give examples or suggestions on what needs reverting?
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@NarkoTri1er said:
well guys, BHVR did it, they gutted skill expression for another killer on PTB. Unless this wasn't intended change (which i hope isn't) time to move on to another game.
Can anyone from BHVR tell if this is truly intentional or not?
what are we even calling skill expression anymore…
180s are pc-only and went against the dev intent for 90 degrees being the most oni should be allowed to get away with. he's skill expressive outside of exploits, anyway, and perfectly strong to boot.
great change from bhvr if you ask me.
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let me just… make sure i can read: you want the knight's power to be that he's an M1 killer that can use his power to turn into one of:
- a 102.5% killer with better brutal
- a 110% killer with deep wound
- a 102.5% killer with no power
did i understand you correctly?
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CoH doesn't need changing, it's already very good at creating quick resets. Source: I use it all the time still
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@tyck92978 said:
it’s not even a question. I play both survivor and killer a lot, and EVERY time I play killer I am getting a 4k or a 3k if survivor camps hatch. When I play survivor, it seems the killer gets the same results I usually do and I die 4/5 times even though I am doing everything well. Not even sure how to fix this, maybe less heavy gen requirements in order to power exit gates? Seems like all my teammates refuse to do the one and only win condition…
"I die 4/5 times even though I am doing everything well."
You don't. I don't need to see your gameplay to know you don't do everything well.
Sure, your teammates inefficiencies will lose you matches. But If you're only winning 20% of the time, you for sure have things you can work on, I promise.
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Can you describe a metric that would accurately position a players skill against every killer in the game?
Because I can't. And that's why MMR isn't feasibly fixed. It can be improved - again, not by metrics I think would be even handed, unless you have one I don't - but it can't be fixed.
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@Altan said:
Like, I don't understand the concept or the goal here
They want a reaction out of you to prop up their meaningless existences with the knowledge that you remember them, even if you do so negatively.
Just say GG after the match and go next, don't let these people win by making them remotely relevant through posts like this.
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@bleep275 said:
Names:
Now I understand the argument as to why we cant see the name. If it is a streamer, we can just go snipe them on twitch and give us a big advantage, at the very least allowing us to see their perks.
However, the killer can do this to the survivors, although not as impactful it can still be problematic as they can hear/see the plan or location of survivors.
I will admit the primary reason I want to see the name is so I can just not play against people I have before who have been notoriously problematic. At least if I am paired with a problematic survivor I can see the name and leave before the match starts.
Yes they can always set their name to "hidden" but most players don't do that, especially the streamers. I have had one streamer I versed about 4 times now that is just awfully unfun and every time i see the name post match i think "oh that's why". I would even accept a DC penalty for dodging a lobby than be paired with them again.
Alternatively I think a player rep system would be good, but that can be just as easily abused by salty people and I do not know how to properly implement that in the game. Another option is to make the "block" button prevent matchmaking with them again.
TLTR: I wanna dodge toxic killers I've played with before.
Ping:
Aint nobody got time for a 300 ping crosshair huntress or survivor thats skipping around the map. Those VPN players can wait, I don't wanna be ruined by their awful connection. Had one killer with 1000 ping. Dude had a VPN connection from the moon. Killers seeing survivor ping would be good too. IDK if they can because when im killer im usually looking at memes until the match starts so I never pay attention. I know we used to be able to see it.
TLTR: Lag sucks
Name no, ping yes.
This actually was a feature when I started - if the killer's ping was high, it'd show. And you could decide if you cared. It'd also show your ping, so if yours was high, you could decide if you cared.
It got removed, I'd like it back. Even a simple indicator would be nice, and they could keep it for only truly egregious cases of high ping - 250-300ms would suffice, as I understand there are plenty of regions where 150-200ms is the best they can do with the servers they can connect to. At least then, VPNers are kept leashed to 300ms or have to lagswitch which has greater tells that can help the team ban them, rather than being able to essentially crash their internet and still stay in a game.
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@champzaza007 said:
useless survivor perks and should be improved (My Idea).
Survivor Perks:
Streetwise (Nea)
Long nights out taught you to do a lot with what you have got.
- Increases the Efficiency of your Items by 15/20/25 %.
The 25% number is too low. While we have a perk like Built to Last (Felix), which allows you to replenish an item up to 3 times (even though the percentage decreases each time). But when comparing the effectiveness, Built to Last is much more useful. For example, a regular Med-kit without Add-Ons can heal yourself only once per game. But if you use Built to Last, you could heal yourself up to 3 times per game. Meanwhile, Streetwise doesn't really provide any benefits.
My Idea: Make Streetwise have a 100% effectiveness, or for example, if used with a Med-kit, it would allow healing up to 2 times per game. The number of healing times per game is fewer than Built to Last, but you wouldn’t need to waste time hiding in a locker. I think this would be reasonable and useful.
Sole Survivor (Laurie)
As more of your friends fall to the Killer, you become shrouded in isolation and the Killer's Aura-reading abilities towards you are disrupted.
Each time a Survivor other than yourself is killed or sacrificed, Sole Survivor gains 1 Token, up to a maximum of 3 Tokens:
- Grants a stack-able radius of 20/22/24 metres per Token around you, up to a maximum of 60/66/72 metres, within which you are immune to the Killer's Aura-reading abilities.
When you are the
Last Survivor Standing
, you benefit from the following effects:
- Increases your Repair speed by +75 %.
- Increases your Gate and Hatch Opening speeds by +50 %.
This perk is really pointless because if you’re the last survivor, no one is going to sit around fixing generators. The only benefit of this perk is opening the exit gate.
My Idea: The ability to open the exit gate at 50% is useful and worth keeping. However, the generator repair part should be slightly adjusted to encourage more repairs. For example, every time a teammate dies (whether from being sacrificed or by Mori), you will receive a 2% boost to Cleansing, Healing, and Repairing actions for each teammate that dies. And when you are the last survivor in the game, you will receive a +75% increase to your repair speed.
Ace Visconti (All Perks)Ace is a character who is a gambler, and according to his lore, he seems to be a lucky person. But Ace's perks are almost completely useless. Wouldn't it be fun if Ace's perks were all based on 'luck'? I might leave Ace in the Hole as one perk because it’s actually related to luck. I got this idea from Nicolas Cage’s Dramaturgy.
My Idea:
Open-Handed: While in the Dying State and fully recovered, you can press the E button to randomly gain one of the following abilities:- You can completely recover from the Dying State,
- Increase crawling speed by 25%,
- Teammates' healing speed increases by 15% for 30 seconds, etc.
Up the Ante: Every time you or a teammate lose Hook State for the first time, you will receive 1 token, up to a maximum of 4 tokens. Permanently reduces the Repair Charges requirement of that generator by 1/2/3/4 Charges per token, up to a maximum of 10/14/18/24 Charges.
Left Behind (ฺBill)
Once you are the Last Survivor Standing, Left Behind activates:
- of the Hatch is revealed to you within 24/28/32 metres.
My Idea: Left Behind is too weak and not worth using. Even though it has an aura to help find the Hatch, if the killer finds the hatch first, this perk becomes useless immediately. So, I would like to add an ability to Left Behind, which is: Grants the ability to rummage through an opened Chest once per trial and will guarantee a basic Dull Key.
Technician (Fend Min)
My Idea: For Technician, there’s not much to it. Basically, the killer will already hear the noise from the generator being repaired and will have to patrol around to check. So, I think your Repair noises by -8 meters should be adjusted from a distance in meters to a percentage, such as the SFX while repairing the generator being reduced by 100%.
No Mither (David King)
My Idea: The main issue with No Mither is that you start the game injured and with the Broken status. The chance of using the ability Unlocks the Self-Recovery ability, allowing you to fully recover from the Dying State is almost impossible. So, I think its ability should be adjusted to: When the game starts, the player will be in a healthy state as usual, but anytime they are injured from being attacked by the killer, they will immediately gain the Broken status, and the perk will begin working from that point. Additionally, the icon for the Broken status will not be shown to the killer (only for this perk). This will make the perk more effective and make the killer more careless if they don't hook the survivor quickly.
Poised (Jane)
My Idea: I think the benefit players get from Poised after repairing is too little. It could make the value of repairing more worthwhile in my opinion. For example, after repairing a generator, survivors who participated in repairing that generator, if injured, should receive 50% of the Healing State.
Camaraderie (Steve Harrington)
My Idea: For me, Camaraderie should allow players to choose whether to use it in Hook State 1 or Hook State 2. It should also be usable by the player themselves, without needing another survivor to be in range. For example, you could press the E button while on the hook to Pause the Struggle Phase timer. However, the duration of the paused Struggle Phase timer should be reduced. For example, from 26/30/34 to 10/15/20. Because if you can pause the Struggle Phase timer by yourself and the time remains the same, it might not be fair to the killer.
Blood Pact (Cheryl) & Teamwork: Power of Two (Thalita) & Teamwork: Collective Stealth (Renato)My Idea: For me, these 3 perks have the same issue: 'the usage distance.' I think it should be changed from 'distance' to 'time.' After successfully meeting the perk's conditions, the perk’s effect should last for 60 seconds (for both the player and their Duo partner).
Invocation: Treacherous Crows (Taurie Cain)
My Idea: This perk is definitely useless. It’s not the short duration of the aura reveal, but generally, the chances of a killer startling a crow are very low. And especially if the crow is startled by a survivor who is being chased, the perk's ability is not counted as being used. If this perk should be adjusted, it should be that every crow within the Killer’s Terror Radius, if startled by any means, will reveal the Killer’s Aura. This would make the perk more effective.
My primary issues are with Up the Ante, Left Behind, Technician, and No Mither.
Up the Ante's new effect is already exceedingly similar to an existing perk - Fast Track, but with permanent charge removal and only counting first hooks. I would more quickly reccomend it be a Fast Track rework, keep Open Handed, and move your Open Handed suggestion to Up the Ante instead.
Left Behind's new secondary effect is strong - a guaranteed escape should a survivor play remotely safe in late game. I'd like to not keep making perks that encourage playstyles this selfish, so I dislike this level of power being given to it.
Technician I just need clarification - when you say "the SFX while repairing the generator being reduced by 100%." do you mean to say that Technician should make repairing a generator completely silent? As fun as that may be, removing the sound of repairing a gen entirely is a lot of information to deny just for equipping a beginner perk.
And finally, No Mither. A tradeoff of not being able to heal but you can pick yourself up is beneficial, hugely. But I think that consistentcy in effects trumps all else - it should tell the killer you're broken. Firstly, because every other Broken effect in the game does. But secondly, because a survivor being able to repeatedly pick themselves up, paired with perks like Soul Guard and teammates providing a sufficient distraction, would be unfun to VS to say the least.
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So… a power that would struggle to see proper use on many outdoor maps but on indoor maps could be weaponized to entirely circumvent pallets?
I fail to see how it would make them more enjoyable to face as a survivor at all, given turrets already suffer uninteractivity issues and giving xeno the ability to ignore central gameplay loops would be a pain.
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Of course, we don't know how the addons will look yet so it's not a complete picture, but I am also concerned about the potential for uninteractive, samey chases. I think Xeno did need some retuning, because turrets felt very boring already for survivor (place 2 and auto-win, dont place 2 and auto-lose bc of emergency helmet and star map), but not like this.
I want both placing turrets and dealing with them to feel skillful, and I think they missed the mark with these changes, hugely.
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@TheArbiter said:
Am I understanding correctly that if two survivors left just don't touch gens for 10 minutes they can just force the killer to end the match with no penalty for hostage holding with no objective progress?
Boredom. Ideally, the Idle Crow system, although it can be too easily circumvented for me to say that with any amount of confidence.
But, to me, it's the same reason killers dont always hard proxy to wait out stages. It's boring. Chases are fun- more fun than idling in a corner and hoping the killer isn't more stubborn than them.
Sure, final two could just afk in a corner, using some new or old exploit to circumvent the Idle Crow system. But that sucks, even if you do it for ten minutes straight it's just. Super boring. Mind-numbing, even.
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@codebibi said:
buffing legion is a terrible idea. a lot of people hate legion because of the mending simulator problem. increasing the duration and decreasing the cooldown of feral frenzy is allowing the killer to spam his ability even more making the mending simulator problem even worse and most people play legion with thanatophobia to keep all survivors injured all game and when thana is at max it take more than 2 minutes to do a single gen wich is way too long and make the match unwinnable for survivors. if you keep legion like this it will make this killer even toxic and obnoxious to face. it make the game very frustrating, boring and unfun for survivors.
Go back to the Developer Notes, read the part above Legion's buffs.
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@Cieuq said:
HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KITE FREDDY IF HIS POWERS TOO STRONG WHAT IS THIS RADIUS OF FAKE PALLETS FIRST OF ALL AND MORE THAN 6 SECOND OF SLOW PLEASE DELETE THIS AND BACK OLD FREDDY <3
None of these things matter if you're awake and few of them matter if you play tiles like you do against every other hinder zoner the game has ever had.
Practice more. You'll pick it up eventually.
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@MikeStev said:
After hook can respawn every 60 seconds, I think killer is still too weak and can't fight swf at all. for that I think it's time to further buff killer.
Step one: make Knowhere to Hide the power base for all killers but change it to follow generator location, not the killer position.
Second step: give killer compensation for chasing other survivors (reducing tunneling as well) for that make BBQ&Chili a power base for all killers as well (if necessary excluding Nurse-Blight)
Third step: to reduce killer not finding survivors for a long time, I think Darkness Reveal as a power base is also a good idea. but a weaker version, which is only 8 meters from within locker , the duration of aura reveal maybe limit to 3 seconds.
Any additional ideas on what kind of buffs the killer should have to fight the survivor swf?Giving out three auras, because "[killer] can't fight SWF at all" (which is blatantly untrue) is a horrendous idea.
Survivors need to push objectives. Check them.
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SWFs would be able to weaponise this to ban a third of the roster.
I get a dislike for seeing certain killers, but not everything is going to be exactly what you want. Sorry.