jesterkind
jesterkind
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@Philscooper said:
i dont know why this is still pinned, end of the year and all we got was some small qol.
you know that shouldnt take 9 months to implement right?.I mean, the initiative isn't over yet?
It carries on into February.
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I was thinking that it'd also be pretty neat to be able to change the colour of highlighted blood pools, like when you're running Bloodhound or something like that.
Those are already supposed to stand out, so it'd be neat to make them contrast better.
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@Ryuhi said:
An impact of "I already lost chase and am about to get hooked, let me undo that real quick" is far too high to allow it multiple uses. I get people want it to do even more because they hate tunneling, but people's perspective on the perk have been warping more and more over time. And I don't mean stuff about the stun duration (as that has rightfully moved the needle in people's minds) but the sheer downplay it gets is sometimes baffling.
Give killers a perk that lets them kick completed gens, even once per match. Watch how much that would completely shift the tide of a match if used even remotely adequately. Even if it did no instant regression, being able to reopen a wound in your opponent's gameplan that drastically is a bridge too far in terms of objective denial. The limitations on the perk are what keep its impact in check, especially since it can already trigger up to (but not necessarily) 4 times . Its certainly more healthy than the DS/UB combo days, but its not healthy enough to allow it to happen up to 8 regardless of its other conditions. Not in a game where you want people to stop expecting the worst and engaging in a meta arms race.
The context of what chase you lost is pretty important, though- it's not just any chase, it is specifically and exclusively a chase where the killer decided to target you after an unhook.
I could see your point if we were discussing DS in its glory days before the Conspicuous Actions nerf, but these days even being hit with a 59 second DS while not tunnelling is a situation that breaks in the killer's favour because that survivor was being useless for almost a full minute.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038637#Comment_4038637
to be fair, if tunneling is as common and unstoppable as people claim it to be then why wouldnt you run an entire build dedicated to countering tunneling? it seems people know what the issue is, they know there are counters to it and perks to aid in countering but do people use them? nope…. thats on them.
i mean if im constantly seeing a particular play style it makes sense to go prepared to counter it, like if everyone was bringing hex perks then i would start running anti hex builds. or if killers were slugging every match then i would bring anti slugging to the table. same with killers, if im finding a lot of people are looping pretty well in my matches then it makes sense to go anti loop killers or go anti loop builds. unless tunneling doesnt happen that often?
To be fair, for quite a few people that is the complaint.
You have to run very specific perks every single match because if you don't have them and the killer decides to leverage a basekit balance problem, you have practically no defence. There's no winning position there for quality of life- either you don't get to craft full builds or you're at the mercy of your opponent's good will.
That situation is the problem, or at least part of it.
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Haven't the incentives scaled depending on how big the gap is between the queues this whole time?
I'd just assume this means the gap is lower at the moment, personally.
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@Jarky said:
Can see the renamed perks here:
https://deadbydaylight.com/news/halloween-leaving-dead-by-daylight/
Will To Live isn't a bad replacement name tbh, could be a lot worse
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038478#Comment_4038478
Not for those who own the DLC.
True!
Still, man, what a thing to see.
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You know, I just realised something. When the perks go universal, one of the most iconic perk names in the game, Decisive Strike, is gonna be changed.
End of an era for sure. Here's hoping it really was just because of the upcoming game so we can get the siblings back where they belong after it hits a lull.
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To be fair, you can get comparable or better results with other anti-tunnel perks these days, so I don't really know that DS specifically should be a must-run.
OTR is just as good if not slightly better, for instance.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
I hope so.
And I hope they remove the Skill Check for DS.
Be honest to yourself for what reason is the Skill Check on DS?
I've seen some arguments to the effect of choosing when to use DS being a thing, but even if we accept that, the skill check could at least be bigger.
No reason to skill-gate anti tunnel perks.
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You might see some more people running it once it's available to them, but I don't think it'll be enough to make a huge difference.
Might be a nice opportunity to give the perk a once-over and improve it a little, though.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037975#Comment_4037975
For the sake of conversation, let's assume nurse is blind during the act of charging.
If you're within 20m of a Nurse, she doesn't need to see your aura that long. Just long enough to get an idea where you're going, likely won't even need a full charge, and often will be able to just get you anyway.
If you're past 20m, more often than not, you're probably safe given she'd likely need to just catch up to you or risk having you juke the second blink.
But, let's say we go this route anyway. What does that mean for other killers that can hit through walls? Why shouldn't PH be blind, for instance? You're opening a can of worms that raises a lot of questions.
But let's say we only do this to Nurse, then there's 1 last big question at the end of the day: how many exceptions and quirks are we willing to let Nurse have before deciding enough is enough and she cannot stay how she is?
The argument typically goes that her being blinded while charging a Blink means you as a survivor have the ability to try and juke her to some degree- she knows where you were and what direction you were moving, but you can hear her charging the Blink so you get to mindgame surrounding whether you change your direction or not.
Don't get me wrong, this isn't some giant hit to Nurse's ability to get you, just a slight raising of the skill floor and tightening up some of the less fair feeling hits she can get. A skilled Nurse is getting you either way.
For other killers, I think ultimately we do need to be able to acknowledge when a killer is just flat better at something. Pyramid Head can hit you through walls, yes, but he has to slowly aim an extremely telegraphed projectile for it- the skill floor there is considerably higher than Nurse's borderline point-and-click experience with auras.
Not to say it's completely brainless for her, but I don't think it's controversial to say it's a lot easier.As for the last question, honestly, I would say that if they implemented this change + stuns depleting her tokens in the same patch and she still isn't fixed, that is kind of the line. At that point, she'll just need a ground-up rework.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
If I had to look at it from a Dev lens, I would ask the following questions…
- If we restrict Nurse from using aura perks, what about other killers that can hit through walls? (Pyramid Head, Artist, Unknown (if you're really good), Vecna, etc)
- What perks are left for Nurse to use, except for slowdown? This isn't me saying, "all survs want is slowdown Nurse," but instead, me asking what kind of build variety is left as restricting that too far is dull/annoying for both sides.
- It is not as simple as you think. People bring up "Spirit has it," but that works by outright deleting the survs model from the killer's PoV. If we perma-blind her, she won't be able to see gens (because of how it's coded). And if we only blind her while blinking, then what's the point? If you're close, her charge-up is short enough that she merely needs a second to know where you are, and then she'll be on top of you, that brief blindness having minimal effect. If you're far away, well, then you weren't in danger.
To the second point; while I do think a lot of players would broadly assume otherwise, if the restriction is done properly, it wouldn't stop Nurse from being able to use aura perks in general.
Say, for example, Nurse is inflicted with Blindness specifically while she is charging a Blink. This restricts her ability to cheese hits through walls, the main thing everyone's concerned about, but it'd still allow her to use auras to keep tabs on where people are, to get into chases after a hook, even keep track of survivors that try to break chase or that try to mindgame.
It'd only add in a baseline level of prediction she has to do in order to use her power effectively, without stopping her from using information perks in general.I do agree that perk variety is a concern for Nurse in general, though. I'm not sure how you'd address a problem like that without a full rework; she already doesn't want to use a huge chunk of the chase perks in the game, restricting her further is a dicey proposition.
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@YaBoi0215 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037777#Comment_4037777
I completely agree with you. I don't honestly know what could be done to make tunneling not such an effective strategy without one side getting heavily hindered or buffed in the process. A big reason that I see for meaningful change coming to the game about this is the strongest killers in the game, name Nurse, Blight, and Ghoul. The problem comes that if you add a way for lower tier killers to be more optimal to play and not be so weak this in turn makes the top tier killers completely game breaking and unwinnable to go against. I see ways that Ghoul and Blight could be nerfed to be better but Nurse to me is the main problem. The only solutions I see if either a complete rework of her or just the acknowledge that from her conception she was bad for the game and you just have to deal with it. I would love to find someway to make the game more balanced but with these killers, specifically Nurse, it gets so tricky to do it.
I'm not so sure I agree, actually. I think in the current state of the game, the thing holding the weaker five-ish killers back really is just that they're weak, not that there's something really harshly punishing about the state of the game as a whole.
If you were to hypothetically make tunnelling impossible (I have a post up about making survivors immune to gaining hook states if they're tunnelled, as an example for how), all you'd really need to do is buff the handful of killers that genuinely struggle, then balance the game as normal.
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The problem is, when you focus too much on tunnelling being optimal, you miss that it's unbalanced.
That's the real thing that needs to be changed here, but I can empathise with the position of not wanting it to be a strict penalty for doing it. Through some mechanism or another, the most optimal way of playing the game really should become something that's fairly balanced- whether that's through making tunnelling impossible, or by weakening it to the point that it's a real risk/reward strategy.
I would definitely assert that there's no good buff you can give killers to fix the problems tunnelling currently has, because the buff would have to be giant to be stronger than chaining easy chases into an early death. Even 10% Pain Res wouldn't be as strong as just tunnelling someone out, especially if that buff is still active after tunnelling someone.
Like I said, I'm not saying it has to be a penalty, but the most optimal way of playing really shouldn't be something this unbalanced. It's not good for anyone- it sucks to go against, obviously, but it also stands in the way of meaningful buffs on the killer side, too.
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Pain Res in particular really is an annoying perk to play against, it must be said.
There's a part of me that wants it to go back to activating on every hook with a lower percentage just so I don't have to watch a nearly finished gen get reset so far, haha.
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To be fair, while Ghoul and Krasue are annoying + too strong, there was a killer between them that's much more reasonably balanced and a killer before them that barely functions, so I don't think you can draw any patterns about new releases in general from those two.
Mostly this is a response to all the other people in here saying new killers are always OP then nerfed into oblivion, because that just is not true lol
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Of the two, I think Kindred gives higher value overall, but my actual pick is usually Empathy lol
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@tjt85 said:
I wouldn't be dodging lobbies. But then I think that showing your team's perks in the lobby is a pretty bad idea. We shouldn't be giving players a reason to lobby dodge if we want to give the MMR system a shot at working.
I think there are better ways to show beneficial perks to other Survivors within the trial itself. They're kind of already half way there with the little icon that pops up in the corner with perks like Vigil and We'll Make It. All they need to do is expand on that. Why not make perks like Botany Knowledge or Desperate Measures pop up for injured teammates whenever they are nearby? Or something to show that Soul Guard or Unbreakable is in play if the team is slugged.
They could make also make a Head On locker glow within a certain range for Survivors that are being chased by the Killer. Things like this would definitely take more work but it would be a better way to do things than to encourage more lobby dodging.
I think there's an even simpler way of getting the job done than that, actually- put it in the Match Details screen, the thing that pops up if you press Tab on keyboard, idk what it is on controller.
That way you can give players the ability to check their teammates' entire build on the fly for better information, without having to code in a bunch of different notifications, but also in a way that stops lobby dodging based on people's wildly different perceptions of what the throw picks are.
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@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
Shouldn't be an issue what a player is bringing since there's so many self-proclaimed "casuals" in the game right? Just have fun, right?
To be fair, the people who'd dodge lobbies over perks and the people who say the game is more casual and just for fun probably aren't the same.
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@SixtySeven said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037253#Comment_4037253
The terror radius changes for pig and ghostface who have undetectable in their kits anyway?
Yeah, those killers were definitely running monitor and abuse.
I mean, I wasn't defending it. I straight up said I thought it wasn't necessary.
Just my guess as to their logic. I could see it being something they'd need to do later on down the line, and the perk's still fundamentally good, so I don't really care either way.
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My guess is that they wanted to be able to buff/nerf the default terror radius of various killers and didn't want Monitor getting out of hand with them- this change did happen around the time they were changing terror radii in general, if I recall. Maybe a bit after?
While I don't really think it was necessary now, I could see a world where a killer can fairly have a small terror radius by default but Monitor makes it too small to be balanced, or something.
Since Monitor is largely unchanged for a majority of the roster I'm not that upset about the change.
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It sounds like you might struggle with early game pressure, based on what you're saying here— which is a good thing in a way, because it's a clear goal to improve on with specific tips that can be given!
Do you own the perk Lethal Pursuer? It's the single best perk for guaranteeing an at least okay start, so if you have it I strongly recommend using it for a bit.
If you don't, then a good rule of thumb is that the survivors usually spawned on the opposite side of the map to you, so beelining towards that general direction and keeping an eye out for scratch marks, flying crows, or just the survivors themselves can help with the early game quite a bit.Once finding survivors stops being the issue, and you can get into your first chase pretty quickly, Corrupt Intervention is a good early-game perk too.
From there, the best way of conceptualising killer in this context is that every one second you spend without occupying a survivor is four seconds of total generator time, at least potentially— and that sounds pretty daunting on its face, but "occupying" is actually quite broad.
The golden rule, the best starting point, is this: One survivor on a hook means one survivor has to stop doing gens to come save, and if you get into a chase between the hook and the save, that's three occupied survivors.(Barbecue & Chili, Friends til the End, Alien Instinct, Jagged Compass are all good perks for giving you a nudge towards survivors, to minimise that downtime)
I'll leave it there because absent context on who you play and what you struggle with I can't say much more concretely, but hopefully that's a good starting point for you!
Killer isn't as daunting as it might seem, once you figure out the best way you have for keeping up pressure. -
I'd try not to dodge against anything, lobby dodging is Quite Bad for the game, but I can acknowledge that my commitment to that would be tested if I saw someone doing unhookable build shenanigans.
I don't want any part of that nonsense…
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Do people really run Leverage while hard tunnelling?
I feel like that's kinda self-defeating, isn't it? I mean, you're already returning to the hook, they're already probably not going to be healed unless they have something like Resurgence which Leverage doesn't even really help against.
Still, I think playing whack-a-mole with the perks killers who hard tunnel use is a waste of time, hard tunnelling just needs dealing with outright.
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…Nothing about what?
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@Zuiphrode said:
In my last match I had all four members of the enemy team constantly trying to blind me, use flashbangs and blast mines nonstop, and so on and so forth.
Lightborn prevented all this from affecting me. No Lightborn changes ever. It's the one thing that keeps many killers from just quitting.Well, let's take a look at that match, then.
The first question is, how many of those blinds were successful flashlight saves? I'm specifically asking to draw a contrast between that and blinds at pallets/around corners/from Blast Mine, which would be unaffected by my changes.
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@Zuiphrode said:
It's interesting enough to me the way it is, forcing survivors to waste items and addons and letting me get extra hits when they don't realize their flashlights don't work. Frankly I do not give a single solitary care about making the perk "interesting" for survivors to interact with. Go away, your idea sucks.
Interesting for me to use, not for survivors to interact with.
Also this is my post??
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@Zuiphrode said:
Lightborn opens up gameplay just fine… for the killer, as intended. Not every perk needs to have weaknesses survs can exploit.
The gameplay it causes is that survivors stop trying to do flashlight saves and just do generators instead.
Making it not hard shut down blinds isn't a weakness to exploit, it just allows the perk to be interesting.
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036078#Comment_4036078
You can disagree all you want. Its not about whether its boring or not and its not unhealthy but a perk to make up for a weakness. Yes, it is a defense against blind squads, cause most of the time killers only equip it if they see 3 or 4 with flashlights. "requires nothing from the killer" so what, WoO doesnt require anything from the survivors, nobody is making a rework post about that? yea cause doing gens is the objective, flashlight blinding is not.
No, it would be better for the survivors, you're only thinking from the survivors perspective
I assure you, I'm actually mostly thinking from the killer's perspective.
My changes achieve two things.
First, and most primarily, it allows Lightborn to have actual synergies and open up gameplay instead of shutting it down. Blinds going through mechanically but not affecting your screen means you can use perks like Shadowborn with it, for example.
Second, and as a minor benefit, blinds still going through and Lightborn not being a perfect hard shutdown means survivors are more likely to actually try and blind you instead of going and sitting on generators. It still functions as a defence against squads, just a defence that requires you to still actually be trying to beat them yourself.
Blind squads have become something of a boogeyman to some players, I think. Even quite good ones are very consistently beatable with just your own gameplay and positioning, Lightborn isn't a necessary shield against them.
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@drag27 said:
sorry but lightborn doesnt need a rework. its meant to be a defense against flashlight squads, and it should stay as such
I disagree. Lightborn is deeply boring design and fairly unhealthy, because it isn't just a defence against flashlight squads- it's a complete hard counter to blinding as a mechanic which requires nothing from the killer and thus just encourages survivors to stop trying and do generators instead.
It'd be better for everyone if the perk were like, interesting, in the least.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036010#Comment_4036010
There are plenty of cases where it is unavoidable unless killer does switch the target, which in turn may not always be an option.
The blinding mechanic is a huge thing as it denies killer an ability to hook the survivor while also grants a survivor an extra health state. Considering how much it may take for certain killers to get a down ( the pallet density situation made things even worse ) being forced to chase someone else because it's impossible to pick a downed survivor up without getting blinded can be a game deciding factor.
It has much bigger impact when there are fewer gens left to do / defend since at that moment killer has to ramp up on hooks and if that doesn't happen then often it's a game over. For killers who have high mobility and can get to survivors quickly that may not be much of the problem but for M1 killer it can be straight up devastating.
As for blinding being reworked - I feel it's not fairly balanced at moment, hence why a perk like Lightborn exists.
It's pretty damn rare to be in a position where you genuinely cannot pick the survivor up without being blinded, though, and in those situations you can slug the person on the ground instead.
That's not to say a good killer will never ever be blinded no matter what, people can get caught off guard or just not be paying attention, but the fact of the matter is blinds just aren't that strong.
Don't get me wrong, hook denial as a whole is very powerful at the moment but a good chunk of that strength comes from stuff like sabotage as well, not to mention specific problem perks like Background Player.
The way blinds are at the moment, Lightborn only covering for four mistakes/outplays would still ensure you basically only get blinded if you mess up, so that protection is still there for players who are trying to avoid blinds, but it wouldn't be free anymore.
Then as a bonus, Lightborn would become an actually interesting perk with synergies that like, exist, instead of being a void that only shuts things down and enforces boring gameplay. -
@Green_Sliche said:
A single well-timed flashlight save can decide the entire game.
Lightborn in it's current form is a band-aid solution to the problem that can't be solved without reworking the entire ''blinding'' mechanic.
It also occupies the entire perk slot so if survivors don't use flashlights at all then it's one less slot for killer. Unlike killer, survivors can adapt and change their playstyle while killer can't do anything once the match has started and no one does use a flashlight in the game.
What makes you say blinding needs to be reworked?
A flashlight blind is avoidable 99% of the time, I personally wouldn't say that 1% requires either a rework to the mechanic or permanent passive immunity to blinds via a perk.
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@WoodenFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035706#Comment_4035706
No it's not. Background Player? Your positioning is irrelevant. Survivor hiding nearby while you chase the other off? Position is irrelevant. If a survivor goes down out in the open all you can do is 180 pickup. No skill there. Just hope that no one can get it.
Background Player is an issue, yes.
Everything else is gameplay and decisionmaking, though. Keeping track of the survivor's positions, your own position, likely angles of attack, any line of sight blockers in the area, all that stuff.
I'll grant it isn't mechanical interaction, but the various players are all interacting with one another in a nice back and forth.
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035526#Comment_4035526
it wasnt broken, it still had to be used on a scourge hook which was its "self nerf". Of course if they did bring it back to OG, they'd have to remove hook respawns
The info it gave did still make it too strong even considering it's a scourge hook, to be fair.
Still, a hypothetical hybrid that's 15% on every hook but without the info and it disables when someone dies would probably be the healthiest version of the perk we've had.
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@LilGhosty said:
I don't understand the big deal here. If a killer has Lightborn, repair generators? I never run Lightborn myself because I want survivors to become altruistic.
Is that not itself a good reason to rework Lightborn? If it's so dull and uninteractive that it's not only easily countered, it's easily countered by lowering interaction with the killer even further?
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As I understand it, Breakdown and Wicked were both going to be changed on the PTB but BHVR decided not to go through with those changes, but didn't have time to actually undo them, so both perks are killswitched until the next hotfix(? maybe the one after) where they'll be re-enabled with no changes.
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@tes said:
Flashlights and stuns themselves as much uninteractice for killer players as Lightborn for survivor players. As much as many different stuff in the game, if being honest.
The literal concept of catching timings where other player can’t do anything mechanically to avoid hook denial in theory sounds as poor as person taking whole slot to avoid this. Even if it takes some efforts from survivors to do this - doesn’t cancel the fact of item itself being uninteractive for other side. And you can claim the same about everything in this game.
It’s pretty rhetorical justifying changes only based around interaction. Because using this logic, you need to remove much more than Lightborn only from this game. Aka Deadlock, Background Player, Power Struggle, Coup and many other perks that requires nothing.
And if being honest - how actually important “flashlight mechanic” in global scope? Does it prevents a whole ability to stun killers? No. Does it prevent saboing? Not really. So “killing the whole gameplay” is only about the use of one item. Which is not even detrimental for match results.Some mechanics in the game simply have to be reactive and not proactive. And considering this perk preferable among casual killer players idk why discourage the usage of already narrow pool of killer perks is “healthy decision”.
Avoiding flashlights is interactive, though? Both players are actively playing a positioning game where the survivor's trying to get the angle to save and the killer's trying to deny it.
It's not the most crazy interesting interaction in the game, but it is interaction.I'm also not trying to discourage the use of it. I want it to be more useful than it currently is, hence the first change.
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035687#Comment_4035687
because it would be fair. let me run you by a scenario that CAN happen in the game now and i want you to tell me if this is fair
a survivor gets get hit 1 time . gets injured . uses dead heard gets hit again endurance saves him. thats hit number 2 . uses the syringe and dead hards again . thats hit number 3 . uses the perk blood rush to get endurance again . thats hit number 4 . finally goes down .. thats hit number 5.
5 hits to get 1 down . now i want you to find a way to justify that .I don't really see what this has to do with Lightborn, is the hangup here. If what you describe is a problem, it's clearly a different problem to the one Lightborn has, which is that it passively shuts off an entire suite of survivor options.
What you're describing here is a combination of tools leading to a very long chase, hypothetically speaking. What's the connection between the two?
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035685#Comment_4035685
should second chance perks get the same treatment . you can only use lithe , balanced or dead hard once so use it wisely . if you wanna do that to make killers weaker then survivors should be similarly weakened .
Why would they get that treatment?
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035679#Comment_4035679
if thats the case i stand by my original statement . that is a Nerf disguised as a rework. and i would do everything i possibly could to ensure that didnt happen. bully squads and toxic survivors do NOT need any more power then they already have. i have been playing since docs release , if this were to happen i would quit immediately
It's a rework either way, but yes, it would make the perk a little weaker.
Healthier, more interesting, and with far more opportunities to use it, but slightly weaker.
It'd still be perfectly serviceable protection against bully squads because you can still avoid the blinds more often than not. That isn't a real concern here.
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035676#Comment_4035676
maybe im misunderstanding, what would happen if you had no tokens . the perk would be dead yes ? would there be a way to recover tokens ? cause if not then this rework sounds like a nerf to me
If you had no tokens, you would be vulnerable to flashlight saves but the other protection - removing the visual effect - would still happen.
Protecting against flashlight saves is the only thing the tokens do.
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035671#Comment_4035671
do you realize the incredible power that would give flashlight squads . the second that happens i PROMISE you the killer player count would drop by at least half . and before you say " just look away or look at a wall " what happens when there is none ?.
personally i use it a lot cause the way the blind is shown on the killer side gives me a migraine so i dont have a choice but to use it . if you wanna do the token thing.. alright .. flashlights are a one use item . you use it once its gone .Well, if all you care about is avoiding the blind visual, my suggestion makes Lightborn better at that.
For the question, well, in the rare scenario you genuinely can't avoid a save, and you also don't want to slug… that's why Lightborn has tokens to bail you out. That's what the perk is for.
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/461556/lightborn-rework-pitch-2-0
no. straight up unequivocally no .
…Any particular reason you say that?
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@Steakdabait said:
While i do agree that lightborn just completely turning off an entire playstyle isn't great game design, these changes only actually aid mald squads and still makes lightborn basically immunity to the solo player who decides to bring a light to go for opportunist saves. I don't think there is a way to make lightborn not just a total immunity perk without making it completely useless.
The solo player who wants to go for opportunistic saves can already be fooled 99% of the time just by being lightly cautious about your angles while picking up, Lightborn isn't even needed there. It's the coordinated squads that can go down in specific areas and cover multiple angles at once where you might actually need a perk to cover for them, and even then they're often able to be fooled by careful angles and slugging.
Lightborn only needs to be a safety net, not a replacement for countering flashlights yourself.Even outside of saves, though, adding actual gameplay and synergies to Lightborn with the first change is still far more interesting and worth pursuing.
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It's a solid idea. It obviously isn't going to fix tunnelling on its own, it'd be one part of a series of changes if we want to achieve that, but broadly speaking the power of a dead survivor means you shouldn't need slowdown perks if you're actually getting work done and playing well.
Worst case scenario, you'd play for the endgame in a few matches where that might not have happened before, and maybe you'll lose those, maybe not.I'd go a step further, I think slowdown is often targeted for nerfs because it's lacking certain guard rails to stop it getting out of hand. Exhaustion was implemented as a mechanic to prevent perks from getting out of hand, after all, and something in that vein is a good idea for slowdown perks- this isn't to say this should be considered a nerf. It shouldn't. It should be considered equalising and smoothing out the baseline so perks can be buffed healthily.
So, on top of slowdown perks in general disabling when someone dies (with room for some perks being exceptions, naturally), I would propose the following:
Generators that are actively regressing cannot be damaged by generator explosions, nor can they be blocked by the entity.
Throw in a small protection to ensure Deadlock and Pain Res just move to the next valid generator (since they're limited use and it's fair to ensure they do something), and you've got a situation where slowdown perks are heavily encouraged to be tools used to help manage the earlier portions of the game that have a built-in guard rail against stacking them, which allows each one to be appropriately strong for its niche.
The state of slowdown really isn't healthy and causes frustration for both sides, it'd be a good idea to address that.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035081#Comment_4035081
This is why while that is happening they shouldn't be able to do any of that stuff.
Including pallet dropping? I'm not sure about that. It'd work, but it feels a bit clumsy to me.
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I haven't faced him that much since the rework, but I like him just fine.
Outside of the pallet break he got, he still basically represents the same kind of danger, just a bit more potent. Still slow and stealthy until he hits his maximum where he becomes louder, capable of swinging at you from further, and capable of instadowning you. The new sound effect is cute, and otherwise he has enough warnings and wind up to react.
Not that I do, but you could, lolKnowing for a certainty that he won't be instakilling anyone with Tombstone also makes Myers matches a lot more enjoyable at base, without the uncertainty as to whether it'll be a fun match or a boring one based on a single addon.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035083#Comment_4035083
Idk if it was that good for points but still old bbq will give you 20% less points and its hypothetically 3x times easier to get that 100% more bp so unless you got 12 hook perfect game bbq was still better for reward in general.
From what we can see devs kinda droped from the idea of giving both sides more bp through perks.
To be fair, while it's not as easy to get to that 100% BP multiplier, you'd be getting that multiplier in a state of the game where things are less expensive and there are more sources of BP available than back in the day, so.
It'd still work out to more BP overall, I think.
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@Brimp said:
Bring back my FULL bbq stacks. Not the pitiful 10% they proposed. While not removing tunneling entirely (which it shouldn't and never will be impossible to tunnel) it would provide an actual incentive for me and some others to go for each unique hook.
Wasn't it 10% per unique hook? As in, capping out at 120% for a 12 hook game?
Hypothetically that would've been more rewarding than old BBQ, if you got a perfect game.
Still, of all the basekit incentives, I think that is the one the most people will broadly agree could and should be implemented. It'd be neat to see a survivor equivalent, too, though I don't know what that would look like.