gantes
gantes
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TBH I think the right approach is to make hex totems spawn only 1min into the match. Good survivors have the general location of totem spawns memorized, and improving the hiding spots without reducing randomness is very hard. By reducing randomness, you make them even easier to memorize.
Hex totems by default should only spawn 1min or 90s into the match, and perks that have their effect only start after certain events (Huntress Lullaby, Devour Hope) should only spawn after they're actually doing something. All totems should begin dull. That would encourage survivors to cleanse them and make these perks feel less frustrating to use.
I have no clue why this isn't how it works yet. People have been asking for that for ages and it would definitely NOT be too strong. Any input from the devs? @Peanits
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533419#Comment_533419
Well unfortunately that's 2 maps getting reworked A YEAR. At that rate the problem is essentially never getting fixed.
I still have hope that we can get smaller scale updates on some not so problematic maps. I feel they can do more. They did just add new tiles to Yamaoka, for example.
Some maps just need to have a window or two removed or the main building changed or the size reduced. Some are complete trainwrecks that need to be rebuilt from the ground up, like Haddonfun.
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@CoffengMin said:
ah yes i still remember that time where i got grabbed when he should have been stunned... dark times. the perks broken
You don't even need to grab, you can slap a survivor while they're coming for the stun. It's pretty broken.
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Are there any plans to soften the grind in the foreseeable future? The amount of teachable perks is out of control and having to roll that many bloodwebs in level 50 to get the perks you want is a bit absurd, especially since skipping teachables you don't want isn't really an option when levelling a character.
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@Leatherbilly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533380#Comment_533380
Recurrent issues:
- Don't put safe tiles next to one another or Survivors can chain the instead of using them to break chase
- Safe pallets shouldn't outnumber unsafe pallets
- Maps shouldn't be excessively large
MacMillan estate
Coal Tower: Just fix the tower loop, the map is the second smallest in DBD
Groaning Storehouse: The size is fine, but there are many safe loops, including the Storehouse itself; not the worst map
Ironworks of Misery: Fix the Ironworks itself; the map itself is also quite large.
Shelter Woods: Very large and RNG dependent, really depends on how many safe loops are spawned.
Suffocation Pit: Fairly large with many safe loops but this map isn't so bad provided it doesn't spawn the semi-infinites, which is RNG
Autohaven Wreckers
Azarov's Resting Place: Too many safe loops, and it's quite large.
Blood Lodge: Same as the above.
Gas Heaven: Mostly fine.
Wretched Shop: Combines safe loops with an incredibly safe Storehouse tile and a large map size.
Wrecker's Yard: Good map.
Coldwind Farms
Fractured Cowshed: You'll see this on every Coldwind map; it's too damn huge, almost every loop is idiot proof it's so safe, the safe loops spawn literally next to each other and the Cowshed is an insufferably safe tile. Every Coldwind map is one of the worst in DBD.
The Thompson House: Same as above except the Thompson House isn't as egregiously safe as the Cowshed is. Still an absolutely outrageous map.
Torment Creek: Absolutely terrible; all the criticisms of Cowshed applies here, as the Creek building is incredibly safe, and it's another of the "RNG matters" maps, although it's always bad, it's just a degree of how bad it is.
Rancid Abbatoir: The odd one out of the Coldwind maps; it isn't too large, but consists almost exclusively of safe tiles within close, chainable proximity of one another. Like the rest of Coldwind Farms, mind games are seldom feasible.
Rotten Fields: The worst of the Coldwinds; it's massive and has safe structures along the parameter with a gigantic cornfield between the safety.
Crotus Prenn Asylum
Disturbed Ward: One of two maps that is DC worthy; it's unnecessarily huge, full of safe structures, and the Asylum tile is one of the safest in the game with an ABUNDANCE of safe, non-mind-gamable pallets under the same roof. With Balanced Landing, it's nearly an infinite loop to boot.
Father Campbell's Chapel: Talk about the opposite of its sister location; this is the fairest map in DBD in my opinion, as it offers plenty of mind games with some safe pallets strewn about and a sensible center building that isn't broken with Balanced Landing.
haddonfield
Lampkin Lane: The other DC worthy map, it has several guaranteed semi-infinite, idiot-proof loops with safe pallets attached, and with BL the Myers house is infinite.
Backwater Swamp
The Pale Rose: Good map.
Grim Pantry: Rework the pantry itself and add some mind games to some of the loops and it's fine.
Lery's memorial Institute
Treatment Theatre: Another contender for the fairest map award, as it offers numberous short lines of sight to lose the Killer. Many of the loops are gamable, but some are safe to offer an escape via the short lines of sight. Generators are harder to rush down despite the close proximity of the map because it's indoors, and it's the smallest map, so mobility isn't essential to be viable here.
Red forest
Mother's Dwelling: Just needs to be smaller, all of the tiles are individually fine.
The Temple of Purgation: Same as Mother's Dwelling.
Springwood
Preschool: Several ridiculously safe tiles and idiot-proof loops, but it's being reworked anyways.
Gideon Meat Plant
The Game: Awful. A literal majority of pallets (by a wide margin) are safe and lack any mind game whatsoever, most of them within a chainable proximity to one another. If you can't negate safety to some extent, your Killer can be bullied.
Yamaoka Estate
Family Residence: Too huge and too cluttered; full of safe loops, too.
Ormond
Mount Ormond Resort: Mount Framedrop Resort is a pain due to map size and the safety of loops.
Solid take on the maps. It's pretty sad how maps that are otherwise fine are either 1. too huge 2. too cluttered or 3. have a BS main building with a semi-infinite window.
I honestly think maps should be their number one priority atm, but I doubt they'll be fixed at an acceptable rate. I feel like turning the PC off every time I hear the Haddonfield music at the start of the match.
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@DocFabron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533251#Comment_533251
Drama?
Im simply annoyed that the killer i bought today got nerfed and his power rendered useless. No need to be a jerk.
I'm not being a jerk, I'm being realistic.
Firstly, you haven't even tested the changes because they're not out yet, so you have zero clue if he's gonna be useless or if he's gonna be roughly the same as he is now power wise.
Also, they're hosting a Q&A soon to talk about the changes.
So it'd probably be better for your health if you wait until you know exactly what's gonna happen before you get angry. Except if being angry about something is actually what you want, then feel free to be.
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@DocFabron said:
This killed release reminds me of Freddy's release. Nerfed during release into trash tier. However Ghostface seemed really good in the PTB. Ugh. My best friend and I were so excited for him too. :(
OMG stop it with the drama
He's still gonna be fine after the hotfix
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I got warned by a mod for allegedly "attacking" developers, but I'm going to say this. You still haven't learned have you?
You know, you really throw any credibility your post might achieve out the window when you say they bURieD Legion.
Chill. The only change I'm remotely concerned about is not being able to stalk marked survivors. Other than that, no big deal.
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The devs already said in a recent Q&A that Nurse, Doctor and Bubba were in the radar for changes.
Thank God because if you think the Doctor is fine/isn't at least bottom 5 you're lying to yourself
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@Mushwin said:
Don't worry Killer Mains, Noed and Ruin are next XD.
No reason whatsoever to touch Ruin. If anything, the other perks that slow the game down need to be buffed.
NOED can go die in a ditch for all I care.
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@Leatherbilly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/532771#Comment_532771
I'm firmly of the opinion that the game should be balanced around Huntress/Myers tier killers, and in that case Ghost Face would be perfectly good.
Balancing killers around their level is fine if you're balancing around low purple ranks.
If you want to balance around the highest level, which you should imo, killers need to be balanced around Billy/Spirit level.
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What's the reasoning behind removing the stalking on marked survivors? I know powers are supposed to have counterplay, but I feel like many combinations of structures in the game provide enough safety to easily last more than 45 seconds in a chase and that renders his power kind of useless if he can't extend the duration. The counterplay is supposed to be getting him out of stealth, and the changes already make that easier.
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Honestly the core idea of the perk is so unhealthy it shouldn't have ever been made in the first place.
The only way to make this perk bearable is to nerf it as hard as they did.
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I'm pretty sure the devs are just resigned to balance around green ranks.
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I thought about this a few days ago, but think about how stupid it'd be for a survivor to activate Sprint Burst mid chase.
It'd be a Dead Hard on steroids that you don't have to be injured to use.
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I'm just spamming Spírit today. Only moving on to GF when the hype dies down and people stop using OoO and other anti stealth killer perks.
Also I only have garbage perks on him after nearly 2 million BPs so there's that too
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@n2njauwu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/532073#Comment_532073
XD it will ceratainly kill him at high rank . with extending mark you could on loop crouch for bit then show up and keep doing that to extend the mark to punish loopers
He was already born dead at high ranks for being an M1 killer.
Yes, that change is the part that bothers me the most, but let's see what they have to say.
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Just to be clear, I don't think the changes will kill him, I don't think it's a harsh nerf and he feels a bit janky to break out of stealth now, so the last change is OK.
I'm just questioning why change the rest because off the top of my head I can't think of a good reason why.
If the reasoning is fine and he turns out OK after that, I'm good.
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@not_Queen said:
Yes, we will adjust Ghost Face. We are putting a Q&A post up right now, it should be available in a few minutes. You can ask any question about the upcoming changes there if you want.
We decided to publish the future changes before they happen so players would know before buying and could make their choice of getting the character or not based on the upcoming changes as well.
Dying to see the reasoning behind the changes
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The sad thing is that if by some reason these nerfs are too much and make him like Trapper levels of bad, we'll be stuck with a ######### killer for a long time because compensation buffs WILL NOT happen.
He's probably gonna be fine but I swear to God I don't understand what goes through the dev's minds sometimes.
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It's not about the nerfs being harsh or not, he just didn't need nerfs whatsoever.
But I mean, who's surprised really? They probably just want to be absolutely sure we don't get another killer that even resembles something viable at red ranks. Everyone loves having to play the same 3 killers over and over right?
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@WildDovami said:
MoM is nerfed. You cried and the devs heard it.
More like the devs did what they obviously had to do
We merely did our job as a community.
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Ruin is a staple on killers that can't apply pressure quickly to the entire map.
So Nurse, Billy, to some extent Spirit don't need it.
Hag is OK with it but Corrupt Intervention is just better for her playstyle. Trapper too but he sucks with either/both.
So yeah, it's a bit overkill on Nurse. Nothing wrong with running it while you're learning her though.
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@OMagic_ManO said:
I would love to see the viability, issue with it is that I don't think the Devs care about it right now.
I don't think they do either, but they should. A lot of people use it even though it's garbage simply because of how fun it is. If it were more viable, many more people would use it.
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My favorite is Spirit just because of how over the top and ridiculous her entire voiceacting is.
Stun sounds are awesome in general in this game. Huntress, Pig, Plague and Bubba are among my favorites too.
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Now before people spam this with he needs this or why make him weaker remember this.
As you said, we never tested it properly and he was absolute garbage before, so no. Bad idea.
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@MegMain98 said:
@gantes Even if sounds properly worked Spirit would never be as good as Nurse. She is better than Billy (in my opinion) but Nurse will most likely always remain the #1 because she doesn’t have to respect pallets and has INSANE map pressure and chase potential.
Exactly. No other killer has unconditional chase power and map pressure. I'm pretty sure no killer should either lol
The more I play this game the more I'm convinced no killer can be competitive at high ranks without map pressure, no matter how overloaded their design is otherwise.That's the common link between the undisputable top 4 killers.
Edit: and getting downs quickly is important too, but to be honest I think map pressure is even more important. Very few killers are able to see that a chase isn't worth the time anymore and move to a higher priority threat quickly.
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A good Spirit has very little counterplay during chases if you don't take perks into account.
Are her shortcomings enough to balance that out? Who knows. All I know is that she's definitely not Nurse tier of a problem right now, and in our current gamestate nerfing any killer but Nurse is not a good idea.
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If you're at the level in which balance matters, MoM ABSOLUTELY destroys games for anyone that's not Huntress, Nurse or Billy. That's not even a discussion.
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@Boss said:
I find it funny how they can release this no problem, but we can't POSSIBLY have a strong Killer on its first appearance anymore.
I'm just glad they actually addressed Ghostface.
IKR? On a theoretical level I can see why maybe they want to avoid something that would frustrate 80% of the playerbase, but let's be real, what could they possibly do with Ghostface's kit that would be stronger than Nurse or Spirit ?
M1 no mobility killers are weaker by nature, I don't understand why they'd undershoot that much.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/528564#Comment_528564
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/528563#Comment_528563
@miaasma Learn that not every game is going to be handed to you. Learn how to bait that ######### early.
Objectively weaker, by definition, are ALREADY at a disadvantage.
@gantes feel free to question things. But theres no need for the "woe is me I had to face MoM" attitude. No need for bashing people or getting heated because you dont like how a perk works or the fact that you CAN play the game regardless of it affecting the outcome.
Sorry if I dont have to have a 4k handed to me every game to enjoy it.
It's okay, I get it, a lot of you were raised with participation trophies. So I'll leave you to your echo chamber as your peers usually do .
Good luck on your irl struggle you want to blame on everything expect your lack of will to try.
<3
I'm going to assume everything you say is bait so that I don't lose more faith in humanity today
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@miaasma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/528364#Comment_528364
this is just a bunch of useless platitudes
what is there to "learn" about a perk that can only be countered by certain killers? regular m1 killers have to just power through it and it can easily lose them games and there's nothing they can do about it
i've dealt with those teams too (and won), that doesn't mean anything when the perk by definition puts objectively weaker killers at a disadvantage
That's what I'm talking about.
It's terrible when the only reliable counter to something is to camp and tunnel before the perk triggers.
It's like saying old DS was fine because you could not pick up the obsession until everyone else was dead, since that's technically counterplay.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/528379#Comment_528379
I never said I was better. Just that I dont get upset when I dont have a guaranteed win because of in game perks.
I play through it. I try my best.
I dont quit because of opponents optimal play. Sorry if that ruffles your feathers hon.
Sorry if objectively ######### game design makes me question stuff.
I aim to be as ascended as you someday.
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And as Survivor I generally have a lot more fun playing vs killers like Spirit, Huntress, Hag etc because I have to actually change my playstyle and think a bit more during chases, even if it's harder.
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Boring as hell.
That's why I generally prefer to play killers that don't care about looping that much.
Jungle gyms are fine. A bunch of clutter where the survivor can see you and you have literally no choice except run in circles until you force them to drop the pallet is just not very good design.
I hope they reduce or outright remove the non-mindgameable loops during their next map passes.
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@Paladin_Goo said:
I feel like this is just something that many have said already. I mean, I agree with it, but we only need to hear it so many times.
That many times isn't enough times as long as horribly botched and unbalanced stuff keeps seeing the light of day.
I'm merely suggesting they need to reconsider their playtesting process.
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Tbh yall can't seriously expect me to take a couple anecdotal snippets over the overwhelming majority of top players saying that this perk is BS
It's our DUTY as players to speak up on these matters. Otherwise there wouldn't be feedback sections on the forums.
I couldn't give less flying birds about how MoM didn't affect you individually. It's objectively bad game design, 90% of people playing at the higher levels agree and tbh has no place in the game. Gutting it was a necessity.
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@Carpemortum said:
I dont get the vitriol.
I've dealt with double MoM 3DS 4SB teams.
It's not EASY, but you learn. Ended up 3k.
Cant look at every challenge as an impossible task to quit or use as a reason to change things.
"Take my anecdotal evidence to see how I'm BETTER than you!!!!!!111!!!"
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Not even going into the merit of her being balanced or not, the game needs MORE killers that have different counterplay than looping.
That ######### gets old, fast.
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@HazeHound said:
You over value Ruin. Its a perk that works wonders against potatoes (when you don't even need it) and does almost nothing against good survivors (when you actually do need it). I find corrupt intervention to be way more efficient and consistent at this. Problem with slowdown perks is this: mobile killers will benefit from them even more, widening the gap even more.
@starpilotsix "I'd love to see a few perks that address this imbalance, that aren't that useful for characters who can zoom across the map but are a benefit for killers that need to take their time to cross a map." There is literally nothing that would benefit slow killers more than mobile ones.
Detection? They can go check it faster, leaving survivors less time to hide/counter.
Instadown? They can find new survivors faster, or catch up to them more efficiently.
I would like to see some love for non meta killers... but they are non meta for a reason, and i honestly dunno how to do this. But keep on brainstorming, maybe you will find some clever solutuions <3.
Edit: i actually have idea how to make the gap slightly smaller. Pop goes the weasel having no timer, or at least twice the time. Currently i waste most of it procs unless i go Billy or Nurse.
I see that argument being made a whole lot about ruin, but it doesn't change the fact that acording to the data sheet we got some time back roughly 86% of killers use it in red ranks.
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She can be extremely frustrating to face though. I do believe she excessively takes agency away from survivors, but not enough to be broken. And some perks legit cuck her so hard.
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Spirit shouldn't be changed at all before we have a long time with sounds working as intended. It's impossible to assess her actual power with sounds being broken.
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No
NO
NOOOOO
Hatch isn't supposed to be a free escape, especially when you already lost by failing to complete the gens.
Big nope.
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@Bongbingbing said:
Here's how you work around DS,
If gens are still up, avoid the person you've hooked after theyve been unhooked. A lot of times survivors will purposely try to get you to tunnel them if they have DS and/or borrowed time. You'll still see a few DS's proc even when you try to avoid the survivors since the timer is so long but there's no way around that.
If The gens are done then there's nothing you can do, the 60 second timer is kind of a free escape if the doors are open. Tunneling just becomes a thing in the end game if you don't want to camp.
In some cases it's actually better to tunnel someone of the hook early game to eat the DS so you don't have to deal with it in end game where it's 10x as strong.
To be fair, kills SHOULD be hard to secure if all gens are done and there are 3+ survivors left.
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You don't even need a counter. Watch their lifebar when they're downed. The whole bar lasts for 4min, so you need a quarter of that.
Other than that, if you're applying pressure around the map, you're probably too busy to down the same person again unless they run towards you, which makes it obvious that they have DS. If you're getting hit by it too much, maybe reconsider your playstyle.
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You can go for the classing Enduring+SF or you can use Brutal Strength to get rid of pallets faster. It's actually better on him than other killers because of his ability.
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She needs a full add-on rework and maybe a nerf to her lunges would be nice.
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You can always go for the standard M1 Enduring+Spirit Fury+2 perks of your choice build.
I do prefer running BBQ+Ruin+Thanatophobia+Filler. Now people have to play Legion, you know, the way the killer was designed to be played. You actually have to hit multiple targets with your ability to gain pressure instead of tunneling one person down. You actually need to work for your downs now, too.
Keep in mind that now by cancelling your power manually you keep whatever gauge you have atm. So don't be afraid to cancel when your tracking gives you nothing.
As it stands, it's pretty much impossible to depip as Legion if you have an okay game. You gain obscene amounts of Malicious and Chaser points, and by nature you slow the game down enough to gain some Gatekeeper points too. Just don't try to commit to the first target you find. I don't know why people think Legion is meant to be played as a easy first hit+end chase killer (or a easy all hits, you go down no matter what, look at how good I am killer like some people liked it to be), but that's just not the intention behind the design, and I'm glad they reworked Legion into a hit-everyone-apply-pressure killer, the way they were always meant to be. A lot more fun than before.
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@KaoMinerva said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/514526#Comment_514526
Dude, they literally NERFED legion in every single way and you're going to just ignore that? You don't understand WHY nurse & Billy are the best killers. Let me say it for you slowly...
THEY... DO NOT.... NEED... ADD ON TO STOMP!!!!!!
Saying that a killer is good because add on isn't s good argument. Yes, Wraith can stomp, but against elite survivors, even with the best add on, he's fodder. Billy & Nurse can stomp ELITE survivors without add on... Easily!
And Nurse is also overpowered with add-ons.
You were complaining about the Wraith changes, but they were for the better, as he was unviable even with add-ons before.
And you defending the abomination that was old Legion invalidates your other points. They're fine now.
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That's a problem common to the overwhelming majority of multiplayer games though. I play LoL too (used to play it a lot more) and if we're gonna be honest 90% of the popular streamers do a great job at making the community more toxic. You can't exactly control toxic people with high exposure influencing angsty teens to behave like terrible people in game.