fussy
fussy
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Never cook again
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Devs: – Guys, here is Mapping the Realm, we want your opinion about these maps.
Community: – Disturbed Ward is too big. Also main building is too strong, but with some deadzones around it's fine. Chapel is balanced, just get rid of stupid windows setups and connected tiles.
Devs: – We heard you: Cut Disturbed a bit and buff both maps. Thank you for your feedback :))))) -
@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010227#Comment_4010227
We also have to consider that "High mmr" can go from 1k hours Swf and medium experienced players to comp players in comms doing streaks. I really believe that at the highest level Survivors are escaping much more than 48% , specially considering there are some known Swfs that escape a lot (like those who do winstreaks).
With exception of some very busted perks , addons and toolboxes i really believe that the devs should focus more on making SoloQ more coordinated than just trying to nerf the stronger killers to achieve balance.
It's true, some swfs easily have 90+ escape rate, but it's also result of they going against much weaker killers pretty often.
Mr_K is right and streaking on both sides would be impossible if mmr really worked like it should and all matches were competitive. -
@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010227#Comment_4010227
Based on what? 48% escape rate from 4 man high mmr teams = "absurdly broken"?
Based literally on your screenshot. 40% is goal = 100% and 48% is 120%.
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I mean, you can do whatever you want with S-tier killers, but surely you shouldn't expect that SWF will be untouched after that.
High MMR survivors already escape 20% more than they should and S-tier literally the only answer to how absurdly broken survivors are on high level. -
My killer games were never more sweat and on survivors I get most brainless survivors I've seen in years. I don't know what's going on, but seems like I won't touch this game outside of swf in near future.
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My favorite build is where I don't play him after adept is done.
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Well yeah, it's my own fault that I didn't stop reading after "Slightly increase survivors’ base speed".
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@fussy said:
I am Artist main, but even I play her less and less with every patch honestly.
She definitely fell down over years and I don't think she is A tier killer now. She already suffered on some maps and with pallet density update it only worse now.
Your micro gameplay is simply pointless (it's kinda problem of majority of m2-charge killers), when survivor can just run into next pallet/loop in 5 meters as soon as you charge your power.
She is hard and complex killer to play as and it's fine, but this complexity rewarded less and less over time. I hope she will get some adjustments soon, because I'm about drop her with last maps update.
I found a very good tweet about what's going on with Carmina.
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@WriteByDaylight_ said:
I think a good Unknown with a lot of practice can make them A tier, for sure.
However, the nerfing to his good lower addons hits him hard as his a majority other ones higher tier ones are not particularly that great without a lot of effort.I would rather they buff it then put it up higher tier but, lets be real, it just increase return to normal base movement speed when he teleports.
There are plenty of killers who have high mobility consistantly through a trial that it is odd they would take such a lower tier addon and nerf it when its values where not that strong to begin with.
Maybe I fail to see the reasoning behind it, or maybe I am just a big dummy.
Unknown is not a killer where a lot depends on you, it's a killer where most depend on survivor. And against normal survivors who are just able to look back during the chase, he's not a A tier in any world, no matter how well you play. I'm not even going to talk about really strong survivors, they just rub their feet on you like a rug.
@adam1233467 said:
I find it incredible how many people consider Unknown to be Tier A, but in reality he's really bad, like really bad. For me, it would be at the beginning of Tier C or the end of Tier B, but BHVR treats it as Tier A so they can keep nerfing its various add-ons.
Yep, completely agree and keep saying this since release – Unknown is BY FAR is most overrated killer in this game.
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I am Artist main, but even I play her less and less with every patch honestly.
She definitely fell down over years and I don't think she is A tier killer now. She already suffered on some maps and with pallet density update it only worse now.
Your micro gameplay is simply pointless (it's kinda problem of majority of m2-charge killers), when survivor can just run into next pallet/loop in 5 meters as soon as you charge your power.
She is hard and complex killer to play as and it's fine, but this complexity rewarded less and less over time. I hope she will get some adjustments soon, because I'm about drop her with last maps update.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
I just farmed for it. Indicated that I was friendly and then had Survivors go into the doors.
I got like 6/15 through legit gameplay and that took days.
6 is super huge, I didn't even see 6 times on different streams since release.
So yeah, I just farmed it in one match. -
@Caiman said:
I'd like to play Trapper more but that rarely goes well. I used to like Clown and Myers until they implemented their weird changes that made them feel worse than before. Doctor was fun but only when I was in newbie MMR. I guess I could go play Pig and Ghostface? Pig's been buffed and Ghostface… exists.
Agree on Clown, I played him a lot, and with last change he feels closer to what he used to be, but addon variety is what keeps me away from him now. He has one of the best addons variety and came to 3 viable addons. Probably in months they will see stats and it will another Billy Engravings situation: "Oh everyone plays with Haste addons, so we decided to nerf them".
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@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009471#Comment_4009471
So, the biggest problem with this game lies here. People who play very poorly completely affect those who want to play seriously, and at the same time, the poor players make the game's killers feel less threatening, turning the game's horror label into a joke.
That's partly true, and it's more MMR problem, if anything, but how does that relate to Krasue? Hens and KnightLight are both known for best results on both sides, survivor and killer, at the same time they both understand that this killer is at least on a par with Nurse, but requires much less skill to play as.
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@TsukiYurei said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009412#Comment_4009412
My dude comes out with data / Facts,
Shows you these alt/none new accounts and can’t cope with hard facts.
Baby Survivors (Again not all)
Trying to spread the misinformation of a Killer being OP to suit there one sided agenda.
That’s right bro proofs in info/sat pudding.
The Survivor main toxic tribalism needs to be stopped by Behaviour.
She was barely A- B tier so let’s nerf her to Super low B- or decent C.Totally unjustified nerf she got for nothing.
Props for keeping it civil and not to attacking like these tribalistic sided mindset people.Chill a bit. It's first time in DBD history, when pretty much all players, even most biased killer mains, said that she is Nurse level or even better.
I also afraid of overreaction, which can lead to nerfing her to some bad state, but if you truly believe she isn't at very least high A tier now, it's on you. 99% of experienced players won't agree with you.
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@PixelBush said:
It's no secret that Krasue's release has been… seismic, shall we say?
The crux of the issue seems to be her pallet vault: it translates to free hits way too easily in Head Form and makes her chase feel entirely un-interactive. Most of the time, when a Killer gets too many free hits because of their pallet vault they're HEAVILY penalised for it by major nerfs. I think there's an opportunity here to do something interesting using Krasue's infection mechanic to rein in the strength of her powered vault and make it feel more unique to her thematically at the same time.
My suggestion is as follows:
- Regurgitation applies a new status effect to pallets when the initial gobbet of gore hits them: Rotten.
- Head form’s pallet vault can only be used when the dropped pallet is Rotten.
- Glowing Mushrooms can be consumed at a Rotten pallet to remove the Rotten status after 20s.
Forcing the Killer to tactically choose which pallets to infect ahead of time (or waste time and leave mushrooms everywhere mid chase) would give the Scamper system far more depth. The Survivors would know which pallets she can "Scamper" and which she can't, the Survivors could use any excess mushrooms to remove Rot from the most important pallets, and the Head Form vault could still feel impactful without being so ubiquitously strong.
Thoughts?
Rare L PixelBush's suggestion
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@TripleStryke said:
- Mushroom economy changes are pretty insignificant.
- Lowered collision window to 0.35 is great, makes her harder to use.
- Increased pallet stun to 2.5 seconds is also great, makes it more rewarding to outplay her.
- Increased pallet vault time to 2 seconds and the Head Form window vault to 1.8 seconds are fine as well, BUT it's just so un-interactive, the pallet vault should be removed as a whole.
Further Suggestions for 9.2.2:
- Replace Pallet Vault with a Pallet Break
Pallet vaults (outside of current Chucky) are only one of 3 things: too weak, only strong against casual players, too strong/noninteractive. This slows her down, and may force her to break more pallets, but it is just flawed as a concept and is always going to feel bad for either the survivor or killer because she has to switch back to Body to break. Replacing it with a pallet break would feel so much better for both sides.
- Regurgitate Cooldown: 3.5 seconds (was 2.5)
- Extend the delay after Regurgitate before you can Basic Attack
- Remove Regurgitate Ricochet Aim-Assist
There is a great opportunity for skill expression here, but it is currently just a little bit too forgiving in the 3 aspects above. Remove these and it's fine.
- Head Form → Body Form Transition Speed: 1.6 m/s (was 1.15 m/s)
With the above changes making her chase more interactive, and a bit weaker, body blocking, and using a mushroom in chase will become more viable, so this would be a little compensation to let her deal with it a bit better in case she needs to infect/reinfect. This translates to about a meter less distance loss (0.99) when transforming.
I think once the pallet vault is gone it solves the majority of her issues, that is the most important thing that needs to go.
Agree on everything, with 2 seconds it's only useful in some very long loops or god pallets, so I would rather take pallet break instead at this point. Also making pallet stronger against her is W anyway.
I just don't get why we need max amount of Fungus now, but with no pallet vault it will be good change. -
@Crowman said:
I remember when BHVR said they had to nerf mangled so it could open up design space for anti-healing perks to only immediately buff and add more healing perks for survivors while giving killers basically nothing.
I just want mangled to be useful again by not having a time limit.
It feels like PTB where we tested 24s healing didn't go through, but devs forgot about it and keep buffing healing with 24s healing in their heads.
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@Ohyakno said:
Krasue is better than blight.
I would say she is even better than Nurse in current state. You can win some short time with mindgames even against great Nurse, but you can do absolutely nothing against Krasue, unless it's some super safe setup like shack with dropped pallet. Yes, you can delay infection as far as you can, but not so many pallets can help with it.
On top of this, Krasue has better mobility, but Nurse's mobility overall is highly overrated, so almost every new killer has better mobility. -
@MarylinMonhoe said:
Had to spend some Auric on last Rift because their new system is kinda a nerf, i won't do it again
Milestones are currently useless, too much of a grind and such a skinny reward
2v8 was a great time for grinding it, but it's only for a time
Currently 79, i do the dailies and with the last page, I might get to 100 (or not, but idc now)
The new system kinda disappointed me and made me lost a big part of my interest in dbd
So yes, please do a frenzy frag on the last week
Almost same, I'm on 77 and still have one page to do, but it will give me several levels max, so I think at best I will be at 90 lvl by the end. Not gonna waste money to catch up, probably just won't buy it next time too, unless they adjust it somehow.
@ReverseVelocity said:
I hope they review the Milestone Quest nerf with the next Rift. This one was especially hard to do for people who can't play every day.
Yes, I think this Rift meant to be played almost every day and I'm more "play rare but long session" player.
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Honestly depends on match, but in most cases yes.
If it was some matchmaking issue match, where I destroyed survivors on 4-5 gens, yeah, I always let someone escape.
I even had match on Freddy recently, where I had 7 hooks on 3 gens on WD map and survivors just came to me and dropped their item to my feets. I just did my 8th hook and let them all out. They got map achievement + 2 Vee adepts.
But if I had very sweaty match and won, I rarely let someone go, unless some specific situations. I also won't accept your item, if you had 0 chases with me or/and rat whole game, or did something harmful to team. -
Sorry, double posted due to bad connection. Mods, delete this one, if it possible, please.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007675#Comment_4007675
this is what playing one side does to a person.
they really forget that as far as devs are concerned with their balancing mindset they are NOT changing in the foreseeable future, the game is already pretty balanced. average killrates are about 60%, even below that, actually, except for like all MMRs solo qers.
so any big change like that will be compensated and accounted for in the future killer designs.
yeah, it's likely that the majority of the roster will be in fact nerfed, but most of these killers the changes are targeted at will just migrate to the newest accurately "balanced" thing.
and even if none of these changes happen, there is still MMR system that does work to a greater degree than people like to think. Even if devs miraculously do give survivors this gigabuff, this will just artificially boost survivors way above their skill level and they will be matched with killers that can keep up in spite of that. Of course, that would also mean that most casual killers will most likely quit, so this would also lead to very long queue times on the survivor side which is not something you'd expect to happen for a role that is supposed to have higher demand.
There is no conceivable scenario for toxic casuals where they win. There are only those where they lose the least and, ironically, this is the scenario that involves developers balancing the game around fair and interactive killers, rather than putting killers on rails and giving them ultra op chase to balance or eradicating their casual killer playerbase.
Agree. And I think future MMR changes, if it will be truly good, will make it even worse. Currently you lose some insanely easy matches due to insanely bad survivors in your team, but also win some matches, because killer is new player and you are somehow in lobby with 5-8k hours comp Aces and Renato... Against 40 hours Huntress. And it kinda balances out all other problems, because ON AVERAGE game is fine. If even me, pretty bad survivor compared to top players, but good compared to average level of players, can escape 50% of my matches in soloq with current MMR, I can't imagine my escape rate with all 4 survivors near my level every match.
Put players with and against players with their skill level and it will be completely different game. We will see how truly broken survivors on top level with all free-time stuff they have. I assume even new survivors will be fine going against new players only, especially with 20 pallets on every map with killer trying to understand why he is punished for every move he takes. And even on average level I believe it will be easier to play against average killers, because if you are on average working MMR level, I think it means that nobody afraid of gens in your team. And I simply don't see where you can add another gigabuff to survivors here on top of this.
That's why I think MMR changes should happens before any other major change in this game. Because bad MMR is where most problems come from. 4 slowdown tunneling Blight going against run-to-yellow Sable is not game balance problem, it's matchmaking problem.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007509#Comment_4007509
when i talked about it on reddit some bozos accused me of making ######### up and said this isn't related.
they genuinely believe it doesnt come at a price.
Yeah, many survivors believe that they will get omega buff here and now and it won't backfire with anything in near future at all. I mean, it's about how many players truly understand what game they are playing.
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997232#Comment_3997232
At some point I would like to see all PTB stuff went through on live. Not because they are any good, just to see how people collect consequences of their own desires in few months. Because no doubt they wouldn't like it way more than anything that they currently don't like.
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I mean, mobility is bare minimum in current DBD. If survivor start running when he sees me halfway across the map on m1 killer, and I should waste 30 seconds just to START chase, I wonder why I even play non-mobility killer at all. I'm not even talking about waste another 10-20 seconds to catch up exhaustion every single chase, looping, eating pallet, destroy, catch up, repeat.
That's why I also completely disagree with you on "it makes macro easier". Mobility and non-mobility killers simply have different macro. You won't win matches on Huntress going from one side of the map to another, even if your chases are insanely fast. But you do with mobility killers.
Same thing with chase. Watching tournaments where Oni sets pretty often has matches with 5 gens done and Z E R O hits, I wonder if m1 killer have it's place in DBD at all.
Short answer: it's boring, true, but this design is imposed by the speed of matches and the constant limitations of killers and survivors buffs.
Krasue, for example, is very overturned killer in current DBD, but on PTB she was just fine, simply because killer needs to have super strong chase with almost guaranteed down and great mobility to have chance with all these constant "you can't".
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> Stalk survivors even slower than before
> Can't 99% anymore
> Stalk progress depletes
> You can stalk only in 32 meters
> 5 years transition to Evil Incarnate mode
> 40 seconds instead of 60
> Cooldown on power you earned another ~30-40 seconds before it
> Not only you can dodge it and react on it pretty easily, you can just jump in the locker and just eat m1 hit instead
> No synergy with m1 perks anymore
"Free downs with little effort".
Yeah, k. I haven't seen a single rework yet, which make killer SO MUCH easier to play against. And he is already was one of the worst killers before. -
"Glorified Pig's ambush" is good describe to this rework. If they won't revert him (doubt it), he needs whole list of buffs just to be very mid killer.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007383#Comment_4007383
well competitive in a sense there won't be "chill" gameplay anymore.
people will be forced into playing efficiently.
In this sense, yeah, with short chases casual players will be forced stick to gens harder. Soloq will be even harder and SWF will be even more chill experience, with soloq < killer < SWF gap will be even bigger.
So yeah, it's great that at least someone talks about it now, before it's too late.
Edit: But by watching replies, it seems people completely missed what this post about and probably didn't even read it. -
@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007323#Comment_4007323
the biggest irony is that it backfires first and foremost on these casual players because when killers will be forced to play fair on unfair killers, there wont be any skill issues or self regulations with spreading hooks on balanced killers.
better players will be better.
in a very messed up way, the game will become even more competitive.
It won't be more competitive, there won't be any skill on both sides. No need for survivor and killer be good in chase, because chase only limited by killer's cooldowns. No need for survivors make decisions or risk something, because their butts are always safe due to 500 mechanics, no matter how many mistakes they made. Competition of what, who press m1 button faster and bring stronger perks?
It will be another F13, extremely casual rainbow poop party game, where at some point you need to accept that you are dead on timer, if killer sees you. But hey, killer can't tunnel you off hook, can't left you on the ground, can't defend hook, can't defend gens for too long, can't punish your mistakes, can't create any risk situation, can't defend himself in some situations.
Literally survivors' dream they asked for years, isn't it? Sadly in reality it will be DBD's end, because this is not what we play this game for. -
@SpringMyTrap said:
I dont think I need to elaborate on what EXACTLY is wrong with her power. There is a lot. Most of that is fundamental that cant be solved with nerfs.
If you are here, you most definitely experienced how Krasue feels in chase. Either as or against, it doesnt matter, you can tell how cheap and uninteractive, yet brutally efficient she is.
They buffed her because they got stats and feedback from PTB with the "systems" that eradicated the necessary evil of this game's design that bottlenecks killers SPECIFICALLY from being like Krasue.
She is a killer made for an average casual dad with twenty children working 25/8 shifts killer player who is expected to get their 60% killrate, but having to win double-triple amount of chases for that. What did devs said on the stream? Oh yea, she is meant to be "scary hunter hunting survivors" or some other generic stuff that Im perceiving as "we went extra mile out of our way to make new killer unfair in chase because it's not fun for casual killers to be ran for 5 gens".
Krasue is COMPLETELY out of balance in the game design where killers have enough strategic agency to threaten survivors with tunnelling or slugging, moreover, Krasue's main (and basically only because everything else just doesnt work well) counterplay is taking hits, thus inadvertently encouraging killer to slug which doesnt work when killer isn't massively punished for doing so.
Designing / balancing killers the way Krasue was is a HORRIBLE mistake we're seeing play out LIVE.
Dead by Daylight isn't Alien Isolation or any other "scary" PvE horror game. The killer is NOT MEANT to be a juggernaut that instakills you on sight unless you press a button and waste a very VERY finite resource. The killer is NOT meant to be a dummy that plays "fair" giving players chances or being FORCED into giving them by some weird complex set of guardrails that tell you that you arent actually allowed to chase THIS survivor or you MUST pick THAT survivor or get massively penalized / give them massive buff.
If the game goes this direction, it turns into PvE like that however, except it would lack all the story and atmosphere that make or break such games.
All that would be left is a feeling of frustration of helplessness that you can't do anything the moment killer spots you and that your fast chases mean nothing because you cant stop gens.
Let's not break the game over the knee just so that killers like that can be "balanced". Let's not break what is already working with ACTUALLY fun and interactive killers like Wesker, Springtrap or Unknown. THESE are the killers that offer the best for both casual and competitive playerbase and they should be what the game is balanced around.
This is what I am keep saying for last 3 years. If survivors want killer be able to do nothing but chase different survivors on different sides of the map – be ready to get Krasue and Nurse level of killers. Killers with 20 seconds chase no matter how good or bad survivor is. And it will be uninteractive hell and total reduction in need for skill for both sides.
@fussy said:
I don't think people understand one thing.
You don't need tunneling at all, if survivors are bad.
You need tunneling mid-end game against good survivors.
You need tunnel someone out asap, if survivors understand what game they are playing or against just good survivors with strongest stuff.
Even tunneling won't help, if survivors understand what game they are playing and they all bring strongest stuff.
As killer I play mostly for chases: I see – I chase. I try and want to win, but I want to get as many chases as possible, so mostly tunneling and camping doesn't fit my playstyle. And I can say for sure: my playstyle alone made SO MANY people escape for free, because almost every second game I have 7-9 hooks with 1 kill at best. And I know if I was playing a little bit more mean, it could be 4k for sure.
And if this tunneling update will make every killer play like me, then no doubt it will affect kill rate. And you know what will happen next? Chase will be shorter and more boring. Because it's only thing left killer can pressure – survivor in chase. If you want to play against killers with 20-30 seconds chase at best no matter what, I don't. Not as survivor, not as killer either.
Add here changes to MMR and you will see how these changes will be even deeper.
I think this change to tunneling won't be meaningful anyway, and I even want to see 5 gens tunneling become punishing, but I honestly would love to see MMR changes more, because majority of game "problems" are starting with MMR isn't working at all.I don't think even 10% of playerbase understands it, but when we suddenly will find ourselves in the game where chase as interactive as doing gen, it will be too late. But at least it will be casual party game that survivors wanted.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006516#Comment_4006516
may I ask why you dislike rpd? I would say it’s pretty balanced for both sides.
I will answer to this just with this screenshot, if you don't mind. It has pretty much all I want to say about this map.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
With this being said, I am going to take a bit of a break from here. The atmosphere here as of lately is just full of hostility, hate, and tons of people that are willing to just downvote you instead of having a meaningful, productive conversation. The insults people throw at you for having an opinion is absurd.
Thoughts and beliefs change ALL the time. Its about working through all of this together but people would rather do the above. I am going to reserve my energy for now and come back later at a time when the atmosphere is a little less heavy and hopefully just a little kinder. I might be asking for too much though.
Sadako & HoundMaster Mains I wish you the best in your feedback/discussions as I would for anyone here. <3
Take care friends,
See you in the Fog at some point.
Yep, forum lately is just constant crying and raw emotions without discussing at all. Also constant us vs them with insane biases on both sides is exhausting to read. Some survivor mains seems like seat here literally for nothing except write "oh it's end of the world, this is unplayable and this is too, all things are killer sided, bhvr is bad, everything is bad", because there are a lot of people who discuss literally nothing, but only throw their biases under every post.
You are one of few people with whom I feel like can discuss something civilly, even if we have disagreements, and I would like more people with this mentality here. Come back when you feel it. -
By far Hawkins on killers, literally anti-gameplay map for 70% of killers. Lery's is close one to this.
Midwich on killers without great mobility. You literally can't control this map with them.
RPD I hate on both sides. Forgotten Ruins as well. Gideon is also here, you either demolish or get demolished here, depends on killer.
Only on survivors I don't like Pale Rose. -
Everyone is saying "she doesn't have counterplay." She actually does, but it is far too early to find something concrete.
This one is really funny. Do you suspect that the players will play for a while and then someone will open counterplay to her like fire to ancient people? Like, "Ahhh, that's what we should do against her".
I mean, community overreact in 99% of cases on killer's release, I agree, but this time it's absolutely valid 1%. -
As a killer I didn't bring hexes even when Ruin was 200%, because it's pure gambling and risk of playing perkless in first minutes of the match is too high.
As survivor I adore Ruin buff, because make killer perkless in first minute and take benefits from it with map + Overzealous and Inner Strength is way easier to deal with than any other form of slowdown.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005908#Comment_4005908
1 - Yes, but it will still take her three Intestinal Whip attacks before the survivor is fully Leeched. Putting it to 1% reduces the tunnel potential and forces her to go bodyform and at this point she is more encouraged to go for the rescuer since the unhooked survivor is slowed down with looking for a fungi.
6 - The Harmless
My bad, I misunderstood you. Yeah, Leeched 1 with 1% is also an option, I agree.
Yep, The Harmless is buddy's second name, true :D -
@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/457312/6-reasonable-nerfs-to-krasue
I played her a lot the last two days and I don't think she is an S tier killer like many people say because she has the extra step of infect survivors and bodyblocking is her biggest nightmare. She also has some other counterplay. However, she has some unhealthy issues that need to be fixed to put her in a better spot. I personally dislike S tier killer and I want her in a good A tier spot that is fun to play as and against.
- This should be fine. My main issue is that the Regurgitate is a bit too spammable and you need to hit a survivor just once. But I think a delay of m1 is better than increasing the cooldown or something else.
- The PTB intestinal Whip felt really awkward due to the 0.5 second of nothing and no real hug tech. My suggestion was to either give it either a hug tech feature or remove the window of nothingness. The devs, chose kinda both and even more (a difficult to react special attack with hug tech, long distance). This resulted in a less skillful special attack but also in a smoother one. I want a good balance between it should be smooth to use but with a higher skill ceiling that also makes fun to use.
- I don't understand why they nerfed the fungi. In fact my PTB feedback was to buff them a little bit since curing still let's you take damage form the Intestinal Whip and you are still affected by addodns such as the blindness one.
- My suggestion was and is that the infection should go to 1% when you get unhook (similar to Wesker) just to remove her tunnel power but still benefit from slowdown. Otherwise, you will put the killer in a similar situation like Singularity where hooking punishes you - it results from a strong tunneler to a strong slugger.
- Seems fair but it should be 2 seconds.
- The only thing that makes me laugh is that Unknown has the worst one despite having the weakest status effect of all of them (Krasue, Wesker, Singularity). The addon should have a slightly higher downside since it is a really oppressive addon due to immediate lethality, slowdown, risk, ans getting rid of resources without giving them more. I want good addons and variety but no broken stuff like this with the mentioned inconsistency.
I also want to add that even though she needs some nerf-tweaks, she also needs some type of buff-tweaks like the transition from Head to Body still feels a bit bad, especially when you are forced to do it due to bodyblocking or breaking pallets. Speaking of pallets, out of curiosity, why did you gave no changes to the vaulting feature?
4. 1% will do no difference, since you still can attack this survivor in head form, so I don't see how it will remove her tunnel power.
6. Yeah, Unknown as whole is complete joke killer. Didn't touch him almost since release.
I think transition to body form is fine. Yeah, feels a bit slow, but survivors need a bit of distance too, since you can start transform right on top of them.
Vault is completely fine too imo. Right now it's barely enough in middle size loops and not enough in short loops, why would you do it even slower? Make it similiar to Wesker, where it does something only on god pallets? Yeah, but she can't brake pallet in this form, so any lower will be absolutely terrible to play as, especially with new spawns on which you can chain pallets one by one easily. -
@Zuiphrode said:
Can we stop calling for nerfs to a killer that hasn't even been out a week? Wait a month or so for the data to come in and for people to find the counters.
This is what I usually say, but this is not a case. Yes, survivors need a lot of time to adjust to new killer, and every new killer release there are a lot of posts "New killer is OP!!!!1!!!11!", but thing is, this time killer is truly op and you can't do much about her in chase to learn it. She is as strong as Nurse in many aspect, but needs significantly less skill to reach same results.
And I don't even ask destroy her right here to B-C tier killer, just adjust some most stupid and obvious points about her and then watch.
Like with all "anti" stuff on PTB, experienced players don't need to play game for weeks to know that something stupid and fair.. stupid and unfair. -
I can't agree more. This rework is straight up terrible in every aspect. And this fetish to give to okish addons (and perks) some downsides is beyond my understanding as well.
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It's crazy fun to read all these strenuous attempts to explain why this is a buff, ngl. Absolute cinema.
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004749#Comment_4004749
You don't even need to remember who they are anymore!
Like this one. You know, this usual dbd situation, where killer tries tunnel out first hook hard, but suddenly forgive who is who, and this stupid HUD doesn't give him info so he goes for different person thinking it's the right person haha outplayed by HUD stupid tunneler you will know how to tunnel with memory problems next time haha!!!!!!!!
And also also!!! These killers who don't pay attention to HUD!!! This is what stopped them from tunneling if anything!!!!! If they meet survivor with 2 hook stages, they will kill him now!!!! But before these inattentive killers… they… they just let them go before this change!!!! Holy killers buffs when you stop bhvr how dare you just put survivors on hook at the start of the match at this point!!!!!!
Mental gymnastic is usual thing for forum, but watching how you guys sincerely believe in this comedy in your heads, it's gold. -
Yeah, one match was enough to me to never touch him again. They made pseudo Chucky who needs to stalk to have power, wow. And I don't get a point of rework, if killer is still C tier against good survivors. Even give him -50% to stun duration and pallet break in Tier 3 would give him more than this.
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Yeah, you nailed it. You just missed an important part here:
I don't play survivor brainlessly. Maybe that's why I have 50% escape rate in soloq.@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997891#Comment_3997891
Bruh, literally same, it's so funny every time.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9HM5APZ4B3QK/7b93d498e4-a845-4e81-83cb-2c30d69cfe84-7d.png
And 50% escapes with 80% playing in soloq btw. Such a miserable experience, you know, clearly unplayable.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BHBVKVHQWFYL/7b18c320bb-2c26-4e9e-b3a0-71a3e28a9816-7d.png
What about kill rates:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/66AIIF6IEGIZ/7b30d3d9e0-42d2-436d-a8ab-ed9f5b633f07-7d.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OCIEEJTNNA0D/7b82d84749-3acb-4ba7-a0d7-23221f00d539-7d.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/X2JL7FUX9WK9/7b00085690-a418-4538-8e9f-9e3aa6728718-7d.png
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997794#Comment_3997794
Let me guess, NA servers?
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@runningguy said:
yet another match i just had…. v onryo. 1 survivor slugged, 1 in chase, 1 hooked and me on a gen. i unhooked, healed then we both got on a gen. why did neither of us help the slug? answer is, they were down for ages and they didnt bother to press heal button to make it easier for the team to help them. if they wont help themselves they can complain when others dont help them. slugging isnt a problem, its the players that are the problem. im seeing time and time again slugs making no effort to heal or move to a safe location.
earlier i had expo and the same thing happened, they didnt bother to get themselves up they just lay there like a dead fish and then shout at me for not healing them lol. madness.
In my matches I see pretty often how survivor just crawls god knows where instead of recovering, losing everyone's time for no reason. And that's why even Tenacity basekit alone will be giant buff and dumbing down survivor gameplay, because in some moments this decision making might cost your team a lot.
@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004356#Comment_4004356
You've conveniently cut away the responses, which are pretty unanimous (and reflective of the playerbase at large during this time period), that slugging was not a problem. Of course, you'll always be able to find a few people who complained about X, Y, or Z, as far back as 2016, but the average player back then was much more indifferent to slugging than they are now — as evidenced by the replies.
OP's assessment of the past is valid. While it isn't absolutely true to say "no one cared about slugging at all in the past", I don't think that's the point they were trying to make. The point was that slugging was not the hot button issue it is today, and was often seen as simply being part of the game.
Yeah, exactly. Before ~2024 I only heard "camper tunneler" as insults. Surely there were slugging even before this time, but if all 4 survivors were on the ground, everyone understood "yeah, we ######### up". In 2024 in rulebook new "not allowed" appeared, and I even laughed when I saw survivors trying to shift responsibility for their mistakes onto killer, calling him a "slugger." But I definitely didn't think that it would consolidate to the point that devs would want to test these crazy changes.
@SoGo said:
I don't think that slugging should be fully abolished, but I do not think it should be allowed to do for long periods of time without any consequences.
From the dev update, I mainly disliked the fact that survivors unlocked infinite Unbreakable after just 90 seconds, and the faster crawling speed.
The passive recovery and recovery while crawilng were good changes, imo. The new abandon option too.
The Resolve meter could work IF it triggered after 105-120 seconds, worked only once and then would go back to 0 (so you get up once, and have to wait x seconds again).
Additionally, perks like Plot Twist and Power Struggle should get changes in exchange. Power Struggle would need a new condition (so you can't trigger it on a pallet you died under) and Plot Twist should not count towards the Resolve meter.
Also, Deerstalker should remain the same.
It sadly won't help with my points at all and will only help to groups who need it least of all.
@vol4r said:
You used 1 in 100 type of example. Even SupaAlf said this.
You don't play against 40k hours lobbys all the time.
Except absolutely nothing was said about their hours or how good/bad they are. Whole point was about killer does his best to win and meet criteria where survivors get rewards for their mistakes and he is punished for doing right decisions.
@UndeddJester said:
What can be done about slugging?
The only thing I can see be added is crawl speed based on how long you are on the ground.
0-60 seconds – default 0,7 m/s.
60-120 seconds – Tenacity speed – 1,05 m/s.
120-180 seconds – 1,4 m/s.
180-240 seconds – 1,75 m/s.I still think the ability to get away from their initial slug location is the only thing slugged Survivors need to effectively combat slugging.
The way I would do it is once a Survivor has reached 60-95% or more of recovery progress (somewhere in that region), they can press and hold the sprint/rush button for 1s to enter the Desperation state, where they begin overexerting themselves to try and crawl away.
Desperation would add the following effects:
- 50% crawling speed.
- 50% louder grunts of pain.
- 75% faster bleedout.
Staying still for 5 seconds to recover from that overexertion ends Desperation and return to normal Dying again.
I feel this mechanic makes thematic and logical sense, and is satisfying to the horror theme, gives a little more agency and decision making to slugged Survivors, without being exploitable in any fashion, and encourages smart and tactile play over strong arming the killer. It may even allow a few lucky crawls for hatch when slugged for the 4k.
The only bit that would be sad, is this would have been a nice basekit mechanic vs. Old Knockout, if Knockout was still a thing... both the faster crawling and louder grunts of pain would have helped Survivors drastically. 🥺
I still think the ability to get away from their initial slug location is the only thing slugged Survivors need to effectively combat slugging.
Absolutely agree. If intention of whole mechanic is making killers who go for slugging as main strategy more manageable, that's will be more than enough, we don't need to break bones half of the game to reach this.
Your suggestion is good as well, I like it. -
Oh, sometimes I seat for 20-30 minutes in store just to combine different skins and figure out what I should buy next.
Dwight has so many options I literally don't know what to choose.
Jake would win every Fashion award. I can't count how many mixed looks I can create with him.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003663#Comment_4003663
What do you think will happen?
Catastrophe. I mean, I understand that bhvr won't judge only based on these "polls", but community in its majority has horrible vision on bigger picture on what affects what.
I'll remind you what community considers "weak": Boons, Reassurance, pretty much all altruistic healing perks, self-care. Hell, even StB. And all of these not just "strong" perks, they are game changing perks in right hands.
Some people still ask bring back old DH, CoH, how do you think they rate 99% of perks in this game? Yeah, right, "it's not press-button-to-win, so it's useless".
Pick rate on top of this means completely nothing. It's impossible to have all perks with equal pick rate, there always will be some favourites. And pick rate doesn't show how good or strong perk is. My favourite soloq perk is Any Means Necessary. And it's insanely good perk. Useful every match, map wide info about where killer is, where chase is going, what resources are used and pallet resets without cooldown on top of it. And it has 1,69% pick rate and on 50th place on NL right now. Tell me, to what degree we should buff this already strong perk, so community starts to take it as often as runtoyellow perk?
We had Background player, which was buffed, I believe, because of one single post here on forum after its release, where some guy said that "this perk never will be good unless it will be 200%". You know what happened next.
We have now Vigil, fine niche perk before with average pick rate, which was buffed because of… I don't know why it was in first place. Now it's probably most busted perk in the game right now, what, once again, community will never admit, because it's "fun". Haha, I can run away from killer every 30 seconds, don't worry about half of his perks and turn Freddy and Clown into powerless killers. Oh and now all teammates on map has these effects too. Yeah, fun. But not balanced.
Look at first 20 survivor perks on NL. Do you see a single perk, which requires some input or work to activate it? Yeah, zero. So to what degree you believe we should buff, let's say, my favourite perk for now, Clean Brake (0,15% pick rate), to make average survivor take this? Let's be honest, you will never achieve this, because this is a perk you need to work for. Not much at all, just average altruistic healing. And why should me, when I can equip syringe, press one button in every moment without any work or input and win 30-60 seconds for nothing?
Some perks can't be buffed by design. Like what will you do with Mirrored Illusion? Power Struggle? It's not popular perk, but it's nice niche perk if you dedicate build for it. Make it so you insta stun killer, if he picks you up under a pallet? Yeah, good luck with it.
Some perks are only good for SWF, again, by design, you won't make it more popular by any means, just because soloq will never use it. Teamwork perks, for example, which are not bad at all, when you use it with friend.
So yeah, "let the crowd judge" was never a good idea in human history. -
Absolutely, definitely, undoubtedly no. I know this community.
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@jasonq500 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JD0LXBOU0ULU/1000000112.jpg
Adding collision to headlong flight but with the option to vault mid flight, idk I personally liked the other version where you lose collision and body block the survivor to prevent certain spots
We'll just see once it hits live
Bodyblocking with flight was cool and skillful part of her power, now you just vault after survivor and that's it? Such a boring change for both sides
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At PTB she is already A tier killer with high skill ceiling, what is lovely place to be imo. It's really rare when killer barely needs any changes from PTB, but that's the case.
Some people think she is weak/mid, but give her time, you will see her potential on release. I hope she won't be nerfed at least.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997915#Comment_3997915
Most people don't want to devote their entire build to combat someone possibly being trashy. I don't have to devote my killer build to bad survivor tactics so that just isn't fair.
There's nothing built-in to help with slugging and the slugging measure should absolutely go through in the future. The only help with tunneling is basekit BT and killers just count to ten. It's mildly better than nothing.
It's hard tunneling happening every match? No. Most killers do the decent thing and go right around a recently unhooked person. But let's consider the versions of the scenario being discussed.
If you target some unlucky person and intentionally tunnel them out with zero or one gens done you absolutely deserve a penalty and it might give you some trouble. Might. Chances are, someone like that will tunnel a second person out too, especially if they can't kick gens.
The other scenario, where you devote your time to an annoying person and three gens get done with progress on the others, do you think the penalty would really matter here? They're going to get those gens done if you wasted all your time. I think the penalty, in most cases, was being overassessed in terms of impact. My last 20-30 killer matches I've had zero gen regress perks and have barely been kicking them and I'm still winning or drawing most of my matches. The only time I think it might be impactful is if someone is dead and maybe two or three gens need to be finished. This is more of a toss up and I think it's the scenario it was designed for.
I don't think these measure need to go through as is but some variation of some of the ideas should. I also think the game should balance around its majority players, not its top 10%. If you have a 90% KR because you tunnel and slug then you need to come down, and if your struggling with a 40% KR but play fair then the basekit perks need to lift you up.
There's nothing built-in to help with slugging
I can't even imagine your happiness when one day you will turn on a monitor and find out that you have whole 3 players playing on your side.
