fulltonon
fulltonon
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Still worst of best, probably not too much.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801735#Comment_2801735
Then you're wrong. Congrats. You're personal view on winning and losing does not change how the game works.
"losing" and "lost" is two different things.
You are pretty much losing if your ruin/undying popped and yet to find any survivors, but you aren't lost.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801724#Comment_2801724
He rated the perk s tier, as a dbd content creator who has several hours in the game. And he's a killer main. You should be a bit more humble about all of this.
S tier in what? definitely not what I was looking.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801697#Comment_2801697
NoED activates when Survivors have 2 more steps to escape; opening the exit gates & walking out them. The Killer is not 'about to lose' because he CANNOT lose until Survivors are literally off the map.
The exit gates could be OPEN, and the Killer has not lost yet. Because, UNTIL THE SURVIVORS PHYSICALLY LEAVE THE GODS DAMNED MAP, THE KILLER CAN STILL KILL THEM.
Do I need to say it any louder?
- The Killer has not 'basically lost' just because 5 gens pop. This is entitled Survivor whining creating a fake lose state.
- The Killer has not ACTUALLY lost until Survivors LEAVE THE MAP. The gates could be open & Survivors could be in the exit area; until they pass that exit LINE; the Killer can still kill them. He has not 'basically lost' or any other kind of lost.
- This mindset is the mindset of spoiled, entitled, whiny, baby-rage Survivors creating a lose condition, then claiming it's enforceable, and thus inventing a flaw with NoED that DOES NOT EXIST.
The. 👏 Killer. 👏 Has. 👏 Not. 👏 Lost. 👏 Just. 👏 Because. 👏 5. 👏 Gens. 👏 Pop. 👏
The. 👏 Killer. 👏 Has. 👏 Not. 👏 Lost. 👏 Just. 👏 Because. 👏 5. 👏 Gens. 👏 Pop. 👏
The. 👏 Killer. 👏 Has. 👏 Not. 👏 Lost. 👏 Just. 👏 Because. 👏 5. 👏 Gens. 👏 Pop. 👏
Keep repeating the above until you get that garbage 'Rewards losing! Derpy-derr!' mindset out of your head.
As a killer, I'm pretty sure I'm almost losing when gate is powered.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801684#Comment_2801684
Then Otzdarva has a cosmic mind. Go see his killer perks rating.
It was tier 2 so not that strange, and he DOES have a cosmic mind for sure.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801711#Comment_2801711
You're not wrong per se, but that doesn't excuse hostage holding. It'd be like saying that it's okay to allow hostage holding if you are abusing an infinite (a REAL infinte) endlessly to evade the Killer while intentionally never doing gens.
I think It took like 30 minutes or even an hour to be considered a hostage anyway, at that point it's clear they are doing that with intention of griefing.
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Survivors, at least killers can play till game ends, you can't as a survivor.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801686#Comment_2801686
You kinda can if the 3-gen is right. That's why 3-gens can be backbreaking for Survivors.
If it's actually an "impossible" situation, problem is in generator spawn and maps.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801684#Comment_2801684
So making all the survivors exposed is not a big help? Sure, whatever, there is no point in further discussing with you.
It is not, too situational.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801484#Comment_2801484
unlike NOED which only rewards losing
Show me where the rules state the Killer lost when 5 gens pop. Oh wait; you can't.
Stop with the bullshit 'ReWaRdS lOsInG 🤪🤪🤪' mentality. It's factually wrong. It's not an opinion. It's just wrong. And the sooner Survivors stop this idiocy, the sooner they can stop whining about a perk that has no problems with it other than the garbage they invent to stomp their little feet and scream about like spoiled toddlers.
NOED activates only when you are about to lose/let survivors go, DH activates in all chases and is much stronger than NOED too.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
You did not just call Demogorgon weak
Yeah, we can't call demogorgon weak when he doesn't even exists anymore.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801672#Comment_2801672
Patrolling gens =/= stand at gens indefinitely and don't try to down Survivors
You can't stand at gens indefinitely though, there is three of them.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801664#Comment_2801664
Please try to be a bit more constructive and open minded. Throwing some random arguments to disprove me without even thinking about it...
Noed could be a well designed perk. The issues with the current implementation are: It maybe gives too much help to the killer. Also if there are only 1-2 survivors alive the killer is in quite a good spot even if all the gens are done and does not deserve additional help from noed.
NOED giving too much help is biggest cosmic mind I have ever seen.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801661#Comment_2801661
And if you are continuously finding them there, that's fine. Even if you don't every time, that's fine. The problem arises when you keep going back, keep not finding someone there, and rather than deciding "okay, they're not there; I'm gonna start looking for them and swing back later," you decide "okay, they're not there; better wait until they come back" over and over and over.
"patrolling the generator is good way to find survivors"
from dbd tips.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801630#Comment_2801630
If the Killer is actively going to down Survivors as they approach, then the Killer is doing nothing wrong. The issue is when they are NOT doing that deliberately.
That's just extremely fringe case of very specific situation, and doctor's treatment mode doesn't even exists for now anyway.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801625#Comment_2801625
"survivors can gave up and try to do gens in face of killers and die, so this will not be considered hostage situation."
The quote I gave literally said that the Doctor is holding hostage if he is only downing a Survivor if they stand still.
But in most 3 genning situation killers will down a survivor as long as they are close, not the case.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801609#Comment_2801609
Yes, but it can broadly apply to being able to stop Survivors from doing gens overall. Another example: Standing in an optimal spot where you can shoot anyone who approaches as the Deathslinger (something that I can absolutely say was possible through experience).
It can't be broadly apply to being able to stop survivors from doing gens overall.
"taking the game hostage" is the situation where only option is leaving the game, doesn't matter what exact situation is... if this is the case, that is hostage situation, if this is not the case, that is not hostage situation.
In 3 genning situation, killers can overcommit survivors and lose the game, or survivors can gave up and try to do gens in face of killers and die, so this will not be considered hostage situation.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801604#Comment_2801604
So you are saying don't loop this area. This is not fix, this is band-ait. But problem need to be adressed and fix as soon as possible.
This is strategical decision, not a fix nor band-aid.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801578#Comment_2801578
Yes, that actually is true. If they just tap and go back to hiding (especially to avoid AFK crows), that is hostage holding.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801579#Comment_2801579
I mean, the BHVR quote I posted said that Killer is fault if they are only bothering to down Survivor if they stand still, so...
That quote is specifically about doctor, which disable survivor's ability to do gens.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801554#Comment_2801554
Losing on purpose is a reportable offense, so no. :p
Oh wait, so killers can't commit to chase because that's pretty much "losing on purpose"? hmmm strange.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801541#Comment_2801541
The Doctor situation isn't reportable because it's harassing and annoying. It's reportable because it holds the game hostage.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801539#Comment_2801539
That is very much not necessarily true if the Killer is letting you go consistently to stand guard at the 3-gen.
This is true because, if survivor gave up and just stops moving, killers will kill them, results in end of the game.
Whether through winning or losing, game will end.
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The difference between doctor situation and usual 3gen is capability, if they are constantly harassed by doctor for eternity and kept madness 3, they can't do gen, and since doctor won't try to kill them, they can't die, results in holding the game hostage.
usual 3genning is much different, killers will kill them if they don't get farther, and survivors can finish gen if they don't scare dying.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801529#Comment_2801529
You don't have to be committing; you only have to be showing that you are making an effort to do the gens, even if the Killer is not letting you. If the Killer is leaving you be after you run away, they are the ones who are not committing.
Even if survivors won't let killers to down them, they are trying to kill you by injuring you and defending you, thus not be considered holding game hostage.
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DH rewards both bad and good gameplay, unlike NOED which only rewards losing.
and this is the reason why DH is 1000x worse than NOED.
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I mean if both of survivors/killers can stop trying to win and end the game, where is the "hostage" even.
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Tunnel better, tunnel smart.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801348#Comment_2801348
Okay but by the time they cleanse and find NOED someones already downed and hooked. What then?
Just cleanse and save like usual?
It's easy without NOED.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801320#Comment_2801320
I understand, a lot more than you. Have a good day.
I didn't know you understood the feeling of seeing someone who can't understand a thing.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800727#Comment_2800727
You could make the same argument about Boil Over though.
Boil over can take the game hostage for uncounterable seconds, we don't even know if they are considered it as such anyway.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801198#Comment_2801198
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801249#Comment_2801249
I feel sorry for your logic. Doesn't even make sense. I mean, in your world does.
I feel sorry for you for not being able to understand a thing.
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Slug camp is best way to secure ONE kill, people took it too seriously.
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It's the entire point of his power, he is meant to be strong killer in camping, he is fine.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801273#Comment_2801273
Isn't it how it should be though?
There should be more of helping wheel type of perks for killers, like bamboozle.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801249#Comment_2801249
Having used DMS on its own with Pig... i cannot agree that it don't give significant value. But that is just my experience.
It CAN give good value, just that theoretically not a big impact.
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@sludgeraptor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2797578#Comment_2797578
Excuse me if I'm repeating points since I didn't read through all 7 pages, but the thing about NOED is that, as others have pointed out, its only activation condition is the killer existing. They don't have to play the game; hell, there's an entire genre of YouTube and Twitch content that's just people AFKing as strong killers and then returning after the last gen pops to roll the survivors with NOED. That is the main issue with NOED, and why people don't complain about perks like, say, Devour Hope, which have a similar effect - Devour Hope forces killer gameplay to work and NOED needs....nothing. That is deeply unsatisfying to go against for many people. Maybe not you, but many people. I personally have been against killers faking AFK so they can try this multiple times! It is surprisingly common (though a bit less since MMR came into play), and also, if I may editorialise a bit, very annoying! Why should the killer be able to do something like this? How is the fact that you can refuse to play the game and potentially get rewarded for it not in and of itself a massive sign of poor design/"unfairness"?
To address the point about other instadowns: every other instadown in this game either has some kind of condition requiring killer input to activate it, a cooldown, is on a timer, has some kind of drawback or is difficult to use, or multiple/all of the above. When an Oni/Hillbilly/Ghostface/etc instadowns me, yeah, fair play. They did something, they should get rewarded for the effort they put in. If I get camped to death by a Tier III Myers, then yeah, you're right, that's just how the game goes sometimes! Some killer abilities or perks make it hard to save, especially in an endgame scenario, and that's alright. They still had to earn whatever instadown was used to get me on the hook in the first place, though, or, in the case of Haunted Grounds, there's a definitive timer after which it will be safe to save. On the other hand, when I'm in chase with a killer, instadown or no, and they suddenly use their speed boost to down me because I was unlucky enough to be the guy stuck in chase with them when the last gen pops, that feels bad. Especially if you're unlucky enough to be hooked right on their NOED, or you're playing solo so you can't call out totem positions, or any number of other unfortunate circumstances. In the end, it's a perk based almost entirely on luck and not skill for both sides, which is bad design, IMO.
In the end, is it OP? No. Not at all. Annoying, maybe, especially if your luck is bad, but not OP. Is it poorly designed? Yes, very. It's a relic of design that really needs a rework of some kind, or at least to warn survivors the second they're exposed so they can react accordingly.
I'm a killer main who vastly prefers playing killer, BTW, so this isn't me being salty or anything. I rarely run into NOED because I never run it on my killers and I rarely play survivor. It's still pretty blatantly flawed as a perk no matter what perspective you come at it from, though, since half the time, as you yourself have pointed out, NOED won't even do anything for the killer. It is in desperate need of some kind of rework so that it can be more fun for everyone involved.
It's activation condition is killer existing, totem remaining, and after that specific ONE totem is staying alive.
Just like every other hex perks.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801245#Comment_2801245
You can not choose where you will down. Killer will chase you, you will try your best and then you will down. So survivor down and they need to die now because klller is blocking way and no way to save. If you are saying this is not issue, i have not words for you.
Killer will chase you, you will choose where to chase.
Where they go is 100% up to survivors, so is where they down.
Killers can't force healthy survivors to go specific direction.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801197#Comment_2801197
Not gimmicky at all. Even killers with no mobility get good value from that combo.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801198#Comment_2801198
Those slowdowns aren't sidegrade. They give so much time by blocking the gens.
Survivors can fix other generators while gens being blocked, overall progress won't change with gen blocking.
And countering PR/DMS combo is extremely easy.
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@SimplyPixelated06 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800946#Comment_2800946
That sounds broken lol
It is, but can be countered easily by not getting closer to basement.
So it's good broken lul
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800898#Comment_2800898
Are you serious? You can down near to library, you can not choose anything.
People are always surprising me.
Yes serious, if a survivor down near library, it's on them.
Killers can't choose where survivors down, survivors can and will choose where they down.
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Considering those slowdowns are sidegrade at most, it doesn't really considered a "buff".
CoH, on the other hands, pretty much upgraded version of anything ever been, it's obviously a buff for survivors.
So if you think logically and with macro vision, killers are getting nerfed.
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Imagine thinking NOED is as strong as dead hard.
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Survivors can choose where they down, it's non issue.
If anything, basement should be stronger for everyone... maybe add a teleport ability when someone enter there? things like that.
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Don't play M1 killers, there is no point in practicing them.
Play blight, play nurse, there could be other killers who can do decent but it's the easiest.
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@AngyKiller said:
I camp because 12 hooking is literally impossible unless I"m a god player (I'm not) or I'm playing a top-tier Killer (I don't).
I also camp because Survivors love to hide near the hook to get an unhook ASAP. Why should I be punished by my prey moving away? I'm not the one making a bad play; why should Survivor gets rewarded with an easier unhook?
Only WH nurse can consistently 12hook players, and at that point they know camping is better.
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It's not a problem because survivors can always choose where they down.
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My killer games been boring, just camping and tunneling... and throwing knives at hooked survivors... sigh.
kek
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Killers doesn't work, survivors can work.
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deletion.
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If a trapper gets survivors in basement, it's on them.
Survivors can always choose where they down.
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They both do not, period.