fogdonkey
fogdonkey
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@gilgamer said:
I'm interested to know how all of you think the SBMM will handle swfs of various skill levels cause I don't know if there is a right answer in an asymmetrical game. You can pair them with a killer who is at the average of the swf but depending on the skill difference then one good survivor can run a killer for the whole match. Pair them with a killer closer to the highest mmr score and the babies are just gonna get stomped every game and that's no good either because we don't want new players being introduced by their friends to just have an awful experience since that would likely mean they wont continue playing.
I honestly don't know a right answer to it. Side question how do you think SBMM will handle it regardless of what you think id the right way.
Killer has to know when to drop a chase and try chasing another survivor.
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@ObscurityDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2472570#Comment_2472570
Since the first day it was clear that MMR was à bad idea (and too pricey fpr what they ciuld have done quicker and better otherwise)
In the 2 years pf developpment we STILL have the exact SAME questions over the MMR, it still is unclear what your rank/objectives etc is,
The game is not balanced enough for that and got way too much RNG
Games will only get more sweaty
But yeah, i guess the forum players that play the game à lot cant give any form of feedback (that will be ignored anyway) to some devs that dont seem to be above rank 10 and dont seem to play the game that much in the end
It is absolutely not clear why it should be a bad idea.
Quicker and better? They should hire you then I guess.
You don't need to know the win conditions. They just use it in the end to create balanced matches and by balanced they mean that the most likely end result will be 2k 2e and there is no huge difference between "skill".
Not sure why RNG is a problem. Sometimes it is in your favor sometimes not. After a few games the bad and good luck averages out.
If by sweaty you mean no more easy 4k for killer or easy 4e for survivors then yes.
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I don't understand why it is a problem.
There is no race to get the highest MMR... If you have higher MMR only because of better perk choice, stronger add-ons or items, so be it. That's your playstyle.
Let me know why you think it is a problem... even Otzdarva didn't really explain why it is a problem.
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@Tactrix said:
We always have a pile of brown addons and map addons that we don't use ever, make a system to where we can trade them in for either bloodpoints or other addons.
Why to create even weak add-ons then? Let everyone run the strongest purple and iri add-ons all the time.
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Hopefully around 20% of players will choose killer.
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There is no exact win condition. Multiple factor affect your ranking which then can be used to match people where the expected result is going to be 2k 2e.
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2472565#Comment_2472565
It's possible that it could already be set this way, but seeing that it's never been brought up, I don't believe that's how it works right now.
When calculating your updated score, maybe it takes into account the scores of other players and also if they were in swf.
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@Vampwire said:
This system is going to fail with the current state of the game. I get that the idea is to get a better grip of the games balance through performance of players, but BHVR doesn't work fast enough to make it bearable. I guarantee there will be another dark period of the game where killers only go against meta slave key swfs and survivors only go against deathslingers, spirits and nurses. Both of which will be a response to one another. Because MMR will dictate that this is the highest skill level.
Dbds balance is only in a bearable state. It's not terrible atm because you dont always see the 4 slowdown perks or the exodia swf.
Since MMR doesn't count perks or items a 4 stack with DS+UB and a key will be considered skillful. A deathslinger with monitor, corrupt, ruin, undying and double reload will be considered skillful. Things that are so piss easy to win with and borderline unfair are now skillful and encouraged. Because you will reach a point where you have to use the meta to compete. Because the only way to fight fire in dbd is with more fire.
All this system is going to do is make que times longer because all the high skill players are going to leave until it gets removed. And those who do stay are going to be miserable.
If you think so...
What's the point of posts like this? You think DBD devs will read this and say: "Oh this guy from the forum with 0 knowledge of the MMR implementation details must be absolutely correct, let's just throw the 2 years of MMR development into the bin."
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Why do you think it is not already like that?
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2472292#Comment_2472292
They most likely would as the complaints from people in the higher ratings not getting any variety would be a big incentive for them.
Since they want people (not just the veteran players) to see their variety of killers in their roster. It's something they're proud of.
So they would be buffing some killers to make them able to be played in higher MMR ratings.
Granted some killers just won't be good enough due to the nature of their powers, but that's just any game.
Devs can see all the ranks. So they can check the rank distribution of each killer. Based on this they are able to tell how powerful each killer is.
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@KateDunson said:
This game has an insane amount of problems and SBMM can't be released just yet.
Don't get me wrong I'm not completely against it but at the moment it's the last thing the players need.
There are a lot of killer that need buffs and tweaks, maps with dead zones or unfair spawns( double Lt walls in suffocation pit for example).
The nosense amount of pallets in some maps(the game)
The performance issues, fps drops while using dh, or when using killer power (nemesis, piramid head etc)
The amount of useless perks in the game, can we like, have a different meta every month like other games? No matter the buff you give to some perks, people will keep using bt dh Ds ub and pop ruin und tinkerer.
With that being said, it's a casual game, that's what the devs don't wanna understand, the amount of rng it's insane and with all the problems the game has atm adding SBMM will just make people even more upset in the short term
Why should weak killer characters delay SBMM? SBMM is actually fixing in a way the weak killer characters by giving them fairer matches.
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If there is no survivor, probably it will be cheaper. If you check old DLCs, those without surviv6 are cheaper. So your point about not having a survivor doesn't make sense.
Yeah, probably will be weak, but I guess I will still buy it.
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GL HF
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@Anghroth said:
Honest question: do you guys here really still believe BHVR's lies?
They don't tell you what calculations are running in the background, because there simply are none. For all those years, people have complained about bad/unfair matchmaking, so I assume, BHVR again takes the lazy/incompetent way and just disable every matchmaking criteria while hiding the ranks. Tadaaa, no complaints anymore, because you don't know how good or bad your enemy was, you got quicker queue times and everything else is "super duper hidden mechanics". Pathetic
You can measure it by looking at the result of the matches. If it is going to be most of the time 2k 2e then their system is working.
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@Crowman said:
If you want to play casually, play casually.
There's no reason to care about your mmr value because there's no value in having a high or low mmr.
But it is possible that sometimes people want to play normally, and sometimes e.g. try some weaker perk builds. So it would be good if you would have too MMR profiles and before queueing you select your MMR profile.
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@Forrestgump said:
A casual mode would never work, all sweatlord would immediately abuse it.
Casual mode would work in a way that you have two MMRs a "normal" and a "casual". Before starting to queue you select the normal or casual setting based on how you want to play.
If you will play sweaty on casual, that's going to be only your problem, because your MMR is going to be high on both normal and casual settings and you will get hard matches on casual as well. So you can't cheat the system and can't go smurfing.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2470052#Comment_2470052
I understand that players shouldnt be affected with this information. To be honest i just dont want to reverse boost myself bc i lower my killrate with giving hatch. So i think it would be best if hatch escapes effect the killer score less, nobody likes slugging for the 4k anyway.
3k and 4k will most likely increase your rating. 4k maybe a bit more. So there is not big of a difference in giving hatch to the last survivor.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2470084#Comment_2470084
The current system takes many parameters and that doesn't make it good because the parameters are poorly chosen. We don't know how many parameters, we don't know if they're good ones, that problem you outlined could very well be what's happening.
Just having no information doesn't help anyone. Like the parameters could be: escape, totems, chest, and unhooks. That'd technically be "many" but it wouldn't be good.
You don't really need to care about it. The new system gives better results compared to the current matchmaking. And for most this should be enough.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2469892#Comment_2469892
I'm not against SBMM just to be clear, but what makes this system less abusable than the current? You'll still just throw to lower yourself the same way you do now and end up against opponents you shouldn't be facing who you then bully. SBM is basically pip system but supposedly better, but as you said yourself their first attempt had questionable measurements, how do we know this won't have the same issue of questionable measurements?
Everything you said is true in the pip system as well, it was supposed to be a matchmaking system and it track individuals and we can see how poorly it was implemented/designed. Imagine trying to point out what's wrong with current matchmaking if we had no info on what was going in, didn't even know if we went up or down, and couldn't see anyone's ranks, because that's essentially what's happening.
How is the community supposed to give feedback on a system when we have no idea how it works?
Essentially it just boils down to "hmm, I feel like this isn't working, but I have nothing to go off of to say if that's warranted or not." The devs can just hide behind vagueness and say "no its fine" and you have nothing to really show for it not being fine because you can't check anything.
It'll probably be better than what we have now but thats not a very high bar to set. That could just be because there's a bigger range of values than the current systems 20 ranks.
I don't trust BHVR to implement an accurate or fair matchmaking system, given their track record I believe that's a fair concern. I want a good SBMM system, not emblems Ver. 2 and we have no way to know whether that's true or not.
For all we know the system could be basically just kills and escapes with maybe 1 or 2 extra variables. After all, in their dev update they only mentioned kills and escapes being within an acceptable range, so it'd stand to reason that's their main factor. As most players can probably tell you, just kills and escapes are not reliably an accurate measure of "skill".
But we have no way of knowing, and thats what makes it frustrating.
The system takes many parameters into account to calculate your skill. Then uses these skill numbers to create matches where the most probable result is going to be 2k 2e.
(And hopefully it is not achieved by putting two strong and two weaker survivors in the match where the killer is somewhere in the middle... But maybe based on the number of available players it is going to be sometimes necessary)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2470047#Comment_2470047
Maybe because I like it?
For example, there's a mid tier killer like Deathslinger, who is not that great but who is very fun if you are good with him
Now if you start going up with MMR you will get your ass kicked inevitably
What will you do now? Keep playing a weak but fun killer and lose every match or switch to a stronger killer to win matches on purpose, but that you don't like, like Spirit?
I personally couldn't stand getting stomped every game just due to a killer's limits, I should start playing a stronger killer or just stop playing killer
It seems like you don't understand it and I am getting tired explaining it over and over again. You will see how it works next week.
If you switch to spirit, you will get even stronger survivors, because with spirit you will probably have a higher MMR than with deathslinger. So no matter what you choose, the result will be usually the same: 2k 2e
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2469321#Comment_2469321
Some MMR is always shared among all killers
And if you want to compete at high MMR, aren't you forced to play top tier killers and throw low tier killers in the bin?
SBMM will only make the already small killers pool even smaller and there will be even less killers, absolutely wrong choice
By shared MMR I think they meant that if you start to play a new killer you will not start from zero. But after that each killer MMR is tracked separately.
If you want to go against top survivors most likely you will need to choose a top tier killer. But the goal of the matchmaking is not to send you against top survivors, but to create balanced matches. Why would you want to go against top survivors with a low tier killer if the result is going to be that they kick your ass?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468918#Comment_2468918
Try play with a killer below A tier at high MMR
Probably you will not get high MMR with a low tier killer, so you will not really face high MMR survivors. So no problem.
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It is like saying computers are to blame, because the game runs on computers.
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Maybe there is no win condition. Only some meter which tells if you played good or ######### based on the match expectations (ratings of the others). Probably similar to emblems, but probably calculated and weighted differently. Maybe they say it is complex, because it is done using machine learning and it is not 100% clear what inputs exactly affect the end result. Your rating is adjusted based on it. Then the system uses these ratings to create matches which with high probability result in 2k-2e. The system uses some machine learning which tells what ratings result in most likely 2k-2e.
TLDR: there is no exact win condition, but it is still possible to create balanced matches.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468468#Comment_2468468
I mean, they added in a mechanic that 99% of the community didn't want, in fact I doubt they listen to the community at all. This MMR will make playing killers you are good with a pain because while it does get harder, it also becomes more BS with how unbalanced the game is.
How do you know that 99 percent didn't want? With random statements like this your comments and posts have absolutely no weight.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468339#Comment_2468339
Could we know what all the factors are because nobody really knows what a win is
If you will enjoy the matches you get, then probably it doesn't even matter.
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@Mattie_MayhemOG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468363#Comment_2468363
Oh I agree, a killer win for me will always be getting all 4 but I am hoping the system keeps me out of the games where that is impossible
It looks like the system tries to aim for 2k. So possibly you will get 4k, but most likely it also means that you will get as many 0k games as well.
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@Crypticghoul said:
I will unfortunately be permanently not playing the game as a result. SBMM sucks all the fun out of the game imo as DBD is a game that gets drastically less fun the harder your opponents are trying to win. I was so excited for Pinhead too :/.
Let's see after one day of abstinence... I am pretty sure you will play no matter what...
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@IamFran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468387#Comment_2468387
For the people like me who take the game as an entertaiment instead a competition to win at all cost it's acceptable.
With the current Rank MMR system I'm forced to play more sweaty and using meta perks if I don't want to be humiliated (being humiliated is not fun), specially keeping in mind that I don't usually play none of the OP killers.
It won't work like that, and you could actually make it worse for yourself.
If you start losing, you will get weaker opponents. If you start to sweat you will need to sweat even more.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468275#Comment_2468275
It's accurate.
The issue is that it becomes impossible to win at a certain level unless you play Spirit or Nurse.
Since it's a minority of players, BHVR doesn't really care.
My matchups are probably even in terms of skill, but due to poor game balance, I have no shot unless I play Spirit.
This is not an issue. Since each killer has different rating if you play a weaker killer you will not face the top survivors.
A potential issue could be that top survivors will more frequently face the same strongest killers (nurse, etc.)
Or another issue could be if there are too many strong survivors and not enough strong killers in queue. In this case even weaker killers will be matched up against strong survivors, so possibly the top killer players in queue will be more often matched up against stronger survivors.
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@FeelsBadMan said:
Prestiging itself should be more rewarding in some way. Right now all you get is some bloody clothes and thats it. The increase of rarer items in the bloodweb is pretty much non existant.
Don't prestige then
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Pyramid head doesn't even know where that cage is.
Sidenote: imagine how strong devour hope would become :D
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I think a big issue is that when survivors run, they are leaning forward too much, and when they start to spin, they look more like a chopper, instead of a human. Then it is hard to know where exactly is the hitbox.
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Nemesis is not weak, you just need to get to level 2 whip ASAP. That means you need to whip two survivors, and don't really chase them until that happens.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2462477#Comment_2462477
Perk tiers are a coherent part of the design, the devs will never remove perk tiers.
1 of the solutions I have offered has been proposed quite often, which is why I added it because I think it's one of the best solutions that fits the lore of the entity perfectly. But other than players complaining about the grind in general, I decided to give a very concrete piece of evidence instead that explains why we want such a system. The other 2 solutions I have never really seen.
How exactly are perk tiers a coherent part of the design? Their only purpose is to increase the grind.
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I think they are pretty good. Give map info, sometimes they harass a bit the survivors, can make looping harder, occasional downs.
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@QwQw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2461815#Comment_2461815
Why does he look a 40 year old woman? God that's hilarious.
Made him younger and more male looking :D
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@QwQw said:
I think the first version looks better.
Also, I'd love to see a real life version of Old Quentin.
Quentin (old version)
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Trickster... Not because a backstory, because how weak he is.
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I would guess that it will be enabled together with the Pinhead release.
I think after SBMM the wait times will get better for survivors, because more people will play killers, because not the better matchmaking.
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@Zozzy said:
Won't this problem persist after sbmm? The first test a streamer called Dowsey had a 2 hour wait time for a game with his twins because he had an 800 win streak with them. The next test had almost no wait time, and the last test was 3min20s MAX every game.
It looks like they are prioritizing time over quality again so nothing will be fixed.
That was during an older test and they fixed these insane wait times.
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Same with insanely fast heals, getting to places where they shouldn't be able, strange ping increases, etc.
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I was instead deliberately getting cakes evenly on each killer. So that I don't need to play the same killer forever. All of my killers have cakes, so no matter what I choose, I can always put in a cake.
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A large proportion of survivors who complain about tunnel and camp do what when they play killer: tunnel and camp. Most survivors are hypocrites. Just check their steam profile and most of the time you will see the "tunneler camper" comments there.
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@Duke_Ragereaver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2458896#Comment_2458896
5 gens left, did not bm them in any way, no they did not unhook in direct earshot. and yes they come back every damn time. its been happening to me for like 3 weeks straight.
So why don't you just immediately run away and hide after being unhooked?
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Anyway... Will not happen, would require too much map rework. Shack would be easy, but to change all main buildings where basement can appear? Will not happen...
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So one more god loop?
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Lol are you in the noob ranks? Maybe there it is enough....
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If survivors could not stop regress with a single tap, and the kick would deliver a few percent instant damage, more killers would have time to kick it.