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It's really easy to tunnel on a killer that requires half a braincell when using busted builds
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Spirit is nowhere op, she's very balanced, although not that interactive to go against. Now, if we talk about MDR and DCB, those should not even exist, but that's an addon issue, just like for Blight.
Agree with everything else you said.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082793#Comment_3082793
I would really love to see survivors that "counter" erruption? I have been playing with that perk since it came out and have never encountered anyone who managed to dodge the explosion by letting go before the down.
This is my whole problem with that perk. It has no counter, and being blocked from doing *anything* for 30 seconds is stupid
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@MilManson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078760#Comment_3078760
I take it you don't play nurse at high MMR then. -shrug-
I take it you're not that good at nurse if you think she needs add-ons. -shrug-
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I firmly believe BT is a much better choice to take than OTR, especially in a swf, because it allows much more freedom during end game
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@MilManson said:
If survivors don't want to learn to play they don't have to.
Just need to start increasing the DC penalty.
What is there to learn to go against double range MYC / Floods of Rage / Agi / Starstruck nurse?
It's just an easy 4k blindfolded if you have like 30 minutes of gameplay as her.
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I swear if I could know beforehand who the killer was I wouldn't do it as much as I do.
But after so many Legions (regardless of Thana) and terrible nurses who just win because of their broken builds, I just can't take them any longer.
Man I had a hag (HAG!!!) that played like every hag in existence, yet I actually enjoyed that game
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@Dead_Harder said:
Unless the killer is standing right there, seems like this build can be countered by tapping it for a second and getting the check over with?
Am i missing something? This doesnt seem good. All 3 of those perks seem worse than a single thana?
You're missing the fact that you tap the gen and either stand there doing nothing for X amount of time until a survivor goes down to avoid eruption (which could be in the next 10 seconds or well after a minute resulting in a waste of time), or a survivor goes down while you're working on the gen, resulting in you being incapacitated for 26 seconds while the generator loses 16% progress and starts regressing.
Yeah, killer has to 'kick the gen' but it's almost like PR+DMS, without the counter of letting go of the gen when the survivor gets hooked, because you can't tell when a survivor is going to go down
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@RavenBirb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070837#Comment_3070837
I don't struggle at all actually even before this update, sorry to disappoint you. You should take your negative Nancy energy elsewhere though.
... Right
Aren't you the guy that was complaining about hatch "not having counterplay"? Kek double u
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@Jago said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/335784/fun-is-for-killers-only
Pre Dead Hard ded you had 45 escape out of 50 matches. See how it feels ?
That's a huge lie though lmao
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@Kira4Evr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079075#Comment_3079075
Yes, they nerfed Ruin and Pop, which is good. But they buffed Thanataphobia, Gift of Pain, Surge(not complaining) and the slowdown Pain Resonance is the same.
You forgot the worst one that received a buff: Eruption. It's going a bit under the radar but it's stupidly busted - literally old PR+DMS without the counter of letting go of the gen.
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They don't, one overwrites the other
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Easy one: nurse trickster legion
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Endgame build
Hope wake up no one left behind adrenaline
I loved this build prior to the patch already, but the buffs to hope and NOLB made it even better love it
(Good luck reaching endgame if you soloq tho)
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I have a better idea: give a give up option so you can yeet yourself to the next match without wasting all that time lying on the floor
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Disagree with eurption. It's already been buffed beyond necessity - yes, you have to kick the gen, but it's basically old PR + DMS with no actual counter, as you can't just "let go of the gen" when the survivor goes down.
I also disagree with PR giving the notification back for the same reason given by @MikaelaWantsYourBoon
I don't mind any other suggestions, they're nice QoL additions. I especially like Inner healing, maybe giving it a maximum number of tokens to 2, and aftercare's buff (never understood why you lose the auras to begin with, Bond is still arguably better).
Here's my additions:
Coulrophobia lingers for x seconds after you leave the terror radius (the buff I was actually hoping for)
Iron Will goes back to 100% but inflicts permanent exhaustion - it's either IW or an exhaustion perk basically
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3077673#Comment_3077673
I'm not that petty. My new way of trying to win games is just get a item right away from a chest find the killer and put it down and ask for mercy. So far has only worked with blights and myers and bubbas tho. Everyone else hates me :(
You play Quentin, I'd be nice to you as well
The simping for quentin is real here
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One is not truly gay until they publish an unnecessary tweet for PR
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Swap 1 and 2, and 4 and 5
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@Dead_Harder said:
Game went from 2nd chance perk fest to skill based you mean <3
I'm sure you'd say the same if bloodlust was removed instead of getting buffed
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@D3spair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3073440#Comment_3073440
So you agree that People who are complaining just need to get good?
"As soon as you'll realize that it wasn't Dead Hard to 'carry' good survivors you'll go back to making excuses"
By this statement you are agreeing that Survivors are still stronger than Killer and the complaints are unfounded?
Don't twist my words. Good killers will always have it easier even on good survivors. The ones that have always been crying are the bad ones
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Don't worry, as soon as you'll realize that it wasn't Dead Hard to 'carry' good survivors you'll go back to making excuses, instead of 'getting good' yourself
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Idk, friends from my swf that actually used DH today removed it and started using something else. We've been stomping on most killers we encountered anyway, except notable mention of a Ghostface(!!) that annihilated us. Tbf it was the first game after the patch though, and we were running around looking at McMillan's tiles
Killers will hopefully realize that E wasn't really the reason they were losing. Or they will keep coping and find something else to blame (which is most likely, since months ago it was stretched res)
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You're supposed to bore yourself to death
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A friend of mine had Haddie P0 lvl 50. She had unlocked to tier 3 her perks on other survivors. These perks were reverted to Tier 1. Was that intended or a bug?
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Whenevr you feel like it. No one is forcing you
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Reading this thread just makes me wonder if OP has like 50 hours in the game and his head is already filled with certain content creator's opinions living rent free in there
There's nothing more to add, people who were giving valid counterpoints received only empty and pointless replies
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Bamboozle is not an engaging perk but you can play around it.
Most players will bee line the window to block it and you can predict it and path accordingly. They either start using their brain or instead of playing a single tile you can manage to back an forth between two of them (which arguably shows a lot more skill on the survivor side than playing tiles singularly)
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067492#Comment_3067492
skill on survivors...that's a very good joke
You're saying this but every single one of your posts shouts "I'm not really good at killer" very loudly
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At this point I'm just ready for it. People seem to forget crows scattered around the map are a thing. Accused multiple times of cheating because "there was no way i knew they were in a locker" when i saw crows landing right while hooking someone else
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@Roarbear2007 said:
nurse has like 2 good addons and there related to range and blink what's she supposed to use
None? She's perfectly ok without add-ons, and doesn't need to use any
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@TicTac said:
It would make legion miserable.
Good
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@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062853#Comment_3062853
No you are wrong. Factually wrong in some cases.
The extra 1.8 seconds includes the new generator times. If every person is injured the buff to thanataphobia with 90 second generators is an increase of 1.8 seconds.
Overcharge was nerfed. After you kick a generator with Overcharge it regresses at 75% of normal regression speed. It takes 12 seconds just to get it up to the 100% a regular kick would instantly get it to. No one is going to use that unless they are committing to a generator kicking build and combining it with Call of Brine and Eruption, and if they're running around kicking generators to get the most out of Call of Brines time limit and Eruption, then they're not camping.
JFC you are literally contradicting yourself. You ask where the Meta change is if people are using Overcharge, Call of Brine, and Eruption which were not Meta perks! If someone is running all of those, then that's not the old Meta of BBQ, Corrupt Intervention, Pain Resonance, Dead Man's Switch/Pop Goes the Weasel.
High mobility Killers still have to run around the map checking generators to get the most out of DMS, which means they aren't camping.
I also believe you don't actually understand how many killers Camp and Tunnel but don't really like doing it, but feel they have to do it if they want to get kills. A lot of killer players would much rather run around chasing survivors but feel like if they do that, then they just lose because generators go so fast.
There's never going to be a solution for the trolls that literally tunnel and face camp because that's what they enjoy doing, but there's more people that would rather chase if they felt like they could win that way.
I don't know what to say when you keep arguing about thana like that, you're just doing it on purpose then. Raising the generator time was already passively buffing thana. It did not need an ulterior buff on the base percentage, period. Doesn't matter the quantity, a buff is a buff.
I'm not contraddicting myself, what are you on about? They wanted to change the meta, which relied on slowdown perks. Changing perks whilst achieving the same effect is NOT changing meta, it's just a poor rebranding attempt.
I don't really care if they like doing it or not. That's a non argument, because it can be applied on the receiving side as well, and the funniest part is usually the survivor can do nothing about it unless in a very coordinated team. I'm sure they like it
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@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062775#Comment_3062775
No you're kind of wrong everywhere here.
Eruption requires you to be constantly moving around the map kicking multiple generators to get a benefit out of it. That's preferential to camping, is it not?
The "buff" to Thanataphobia is so insignificant its pointless.
Overcharge was only buffed on the PTR, The condition its going to be in next week on live is going to make it a dead perk. It will only be used if someone is going to dedicate their selves to kicking generators as a build and they combine it with Call of Brine, but just tapping the generator stops that. It's not instant regression. It's 1 charge every 2 seconds and speeds up to just 1 charge per second after 30 seconds.
Gift of Pain is a Scourge Hook Perk. It should be strong because it requires a Scourge Hook, and that's not always a certainty. Not to mention that now people using Saboteur can SEE Scourge Hooks so Scourge Hooks are easy to priority sabotage now.
There's nothing wrong with Deadlock. It literally protects the progress of the next most progressed generator for a time letting survivors build up progress on another one and then when it's duration is over you've got two generators close to being done and you're in a better position.
You say camping and tunneling has been buffed with "Every single change" but that's not true. Everyone will be using Off The Record now not to mention getting a speed buff off of the hook, and if people start using Sprint Burst instead of Dead Hard that just means more Sprint Bursts away from hooks.
Also, there's nothing wrong with Dead Man's Switch. Outside of The Artist the killer is actually going to have to push you off the generator to use it, so you can't really complain about DMS being used and camping at the same time because there's only one killer who can do that and there's an audio cue for when she's going to try.
Not really, I'm not wrong.
The fact that they buffed other slowdown perks is not mutually exclusive to the buff camping & tunneling got. From their original Dev Not:
"When looking at the perks most used by Killers, there’s a very clear trend: any perk that helps prevent generators from being powered - slowdown perks for short - are favored. Slowdown perks should be an option, but not the only option to stay competitive."
Yet they buffed other slowdowns, not really giving any incentive to killers to changing the perks they're using, and actually giving a lot more synergy to different perks that have the same requirement of kicking gens and that stack together (Overcharge, Call of Brine, Eruption). So where's the meta change? Same applies to thana, call it irrelevant as much as you want, thana was already getting passively buffed by the generator times being upped. It did not need the extra %.
This doesn't mean tunneling and camping work won't work with this, and actually the sole existence of OtR incentivises killers to getting that endurance hit as early as possible, to get rid of it, especially considering that hook trading will be a lot faster because of the cooldown hit animation being shortened - and the trader can be left slugged if the situation is favorable, for example if there are no pallets around guaranteeing an easy second down.
Deadlock is NOT fine as it is. It was already one of the best facecamping perks. Now generators taking longer while hook stages taking exactly the same time, adding to the passive value obtained by deadlock while not movign an inch away, will make it even easier.
Also about DMS, let's pretend that high mobility killers don't exist. Artist is not the only one that can make that perk stupidly broken.
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@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062633#Comment_3062633
Oh yes, that extra 1.8 seconds on a generator when all survivors are injured. Such an overwhelming buff. Especially with survivor healing being as plentiful and fast as it is.
The Pain Resonance/Dead Man Switch Combo is gone.
Pain Resonance will no longer give away which generator has the most progress or if survivors were working on it.
Pop Goes the Weasel is gone.
Corrupt Intervention deactivates as soon as someone is downed.
The buff that Overcharge got was destroyed to the point of making the perk worthless.
But please, go on about all of these unnecessary killer buffs.
The point was to change the meta. Killers meta relies on slowdown perks. They nerfed a couple - good. Why did they overly buff others? There was no point buffing thana, eruption, overcharge or gift of pain at all. DMS and Deadlock, two of the strongest slowdowns, untouched. Killers meta will still be 4 slowdowns, just different ones
So yes, unnecessary buffs will get called out, especially in such a patch that really foreshadows a lot more camping and tunneling (since they're explicitly being buffed with every single change)
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Rancor, and bamboozle but only on certain killers (legion, trickster come to mind)
Shadowstep, lucky break and breakout
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@DoritoHead said:
Most threads concerning Nurse either consist of "Nerf Nurse" or "You're a baby, Nurse is fine", which causes people to say why they disagree/agree with the OP but at the same time not explain their reasoning as much as they could.
As a result, nobody learns from these discussions, so their opinions don't change- they may even become more cemented. So I want to achieve the exact opposite, and make sure that people can take away valuable knowledge.
So if you don't think Nurse needs nerfs, say why, and how you think survivors should play against her.
If you think Nurse needs nerfs, say why you think so, especially if you think she needs basekit nerfs or even a complete rework.
And please try to be open-minded and civil.
Bayonetta 3 just received an official release date and a new trailer
I'm feeling too good to be ruining my mood with pointless nurse discussions with the usual 3 that defend her addons and/or broken combos
Click to view the GIF -
I haven't, and probably never will because there's no way in hell I'm unlocking twins and trickster.
Technically I'm posting here without having completed all tomes, what are you gonna do about it? 😎
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059029#Comment_3059029
Wait
I dont even see what i did there
Am i dumb??? (dont answer that pls)
I'm not sure if you're serious, but if you really didn't see what you wrote: check my name, then check your message 🍳
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056450#Comment_3056450
yeah the whole patch ruined because of a few bad eggs
sure it would be nice if the patch could be perfect, but we both know everyone views perfect differently, meaning you cant please everyone
It's not entirely ruined, don't get me wrong. This patch will make playing killers in a 'normal' way less annoying for sure, and it is welcomed for that. I honestly can't wait to try it out and feel the difference while playing something like Sadako or Wraith. And unlike others, I really like the grind and prestige changes that were announced.
What I fear is that it will really make playing survivor a lot worse than it already is, and even in a swf if the overall experience is just unpleasant then people will just stop playing.
Also genuinely haha'ed to your pun
@SekiSeki have you ever studied mechanical physics (even basic)? The concept would be the same as the space relationship with time and speed:
Total charges to complete a generator are fixed and are the "space" to travel. Your basic speed is the unit: 1 charge/second. Buffs and debuffs affect your moving speed as you go on: you get tired (ex thana) and move 22% slower -> instead of 1 charge per second, you complete 0.78 charge per second. So to complete 90 charges, normally you would require 90 seconds (90 charges / 1 charge/second = 90) but when you're tired you progress more slowly, so to complete the same amount of charges, it takes longer ( 90 charges / 0.78 charges/second = 115 seconds)
It's easier if you write it as fractions on a piece of paper and notice how the seconds, being a denominator in a denominator, moves upwards and becomes the final unit
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Her basekit doesn't need a nerf or a rework except for the M1S turned into a special attack
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3057627#Comment_3057627
"changing meta to kicking gens"
Gutted Pop
Gutted Overcharge
Base regression is still 1/4th a survivor
Survivors can just tap a gen for .1 seconds to stop all regression while killer has an actual animation commitment
I'm not sure about that one.
Overcharge is trash now, way overnerfed and can be countered by tapping the gen (which is dummy easy). It was already a little overrated, now it's just bad. You regress even slower for 12 seconds.
COB wasn't used before, using 2 perk slots for 2 bad perks that both get countered the same way won't make them meta.
Ok what about eruption which will become basically current DMS + PR in one single perk?
And the worst part is that, unlike PR, it's unavoidable because you can't foretell when a team mate will go down. So what's the counter to losing 15% progress + being incapacitated for another 26, while the generator keeps regressing in the meantime, when you have no way to tell when a team mate will actually go down?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058500#Comment_3058500
I just don't get why progression bonuses aren't subject to diminishing marginal returns as well.
Like I completely understand why negative bonuses are stacked multiplicatively but surely positive bonuses could also receive some form of diminishing marginal effect.
And I call it BHVR maths because nobody seems to know that it's different. It's not common knowledge, so people will try and calculate based on percentages and not the action speed formula that's used.
I guess that's because to counter a negative bonus you'd require a way higher positive one just to even it out (-20% -> + 25% = 1) if it was all multiplicative, but that's just an assumption
And fair point, the amount of times I still see people calculating thana as 80*1.xx is outstanding
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055249#Comment_3055249
Basically BHVR maths and regular maths had a falling out
If it's any consolation I have to look up how to do the calculations each time.
@Stielhand said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055239#Comment_3055239
Hmm.. tbf im using actual math and not BHVR math so i guess i shouldn't be surprised i'm wrong.
Green Medkits are still gonna be terrifying.
Not sure why you're calling it 'BHVR maths' when using dynamic action speed and constant charges is probably one of the best design choices they made in the whole game.
Simple example: if thana affected directly the total time required to complete a gen, the progression bar, while repairing a gen, would jump up and down as survivors got injured and healed up. Or, how would dying light even work if the obsession + someone else were repairing the same generator?
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@SekiSeki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056862#Comment_3056862
Yeah, good counterpoint and I agree with ya.
90 sec * 0.055 = 4.95 sec
Each stack of Than is 4.95 sec
80 sec * 0.05 = 4 sec
Before each stack of Than was 4 sec
Totally wrong maths.
@jesterkind Thana stacks like all other slowdowns (ex DL) like this:
90 c / (1 - stacks * 0.055) c/s = 115.38 seconds (at 4 stacks) to complete a gen.
My problem is not Thana per se, but the obnoxiously long and boring games legion causes by the sole nature of it's power. Currently, a generator requires 100 seconds to complete with 4 Thana stacks, so the increase is 15 seconds per generator (75 second more total) for a killer that has a very easy time injuring everyone. Pair that now with the time spent mending every single time they use their power, which can be quite frequently in a match. Add that to other slowdown or regression perks perks.
Legion has never been 'fun' to go against, but this is going to take it at a new level, and I honestly don't expect legion players not to use these possible builds just to make the game less painful for their opponents (why would they?)
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Let's make a handholding mechanic for (bad) killers even stronger, what could go wrong /s
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@Krazzik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056450#Comment_3056450
If a killer is regularly getting bloodlust 2 or 3 in a game they're not gonna win. B2 and B3 literally just exist so that if a bad killer is matched against good survivors they can actually get a hook or two. It's really not an issue.
As for camping and tunneling I do agree with you, tunneling was nerfed a little and camping was buffed.
That's not the point. Going down because of bloodlust feels as cheated as not getting a down because of DH for distance
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056450#Comment_3056450
-Bloodlust serves a purpose and shouldn't be deleted.
-Tunnelling got harder, as hard tunnelling someone off hook is now impossible and five seconds of Endurance + Haste at minimum, without perks makes it more likely a survivor can reach a loop before they're vulnerable. Camping will still need work but it's clear their current focus is on encouraging killers to move, not discouraging them from staying.
-Calm Spirit not being changed is a bit of a bummer but they can't all be winners. DS is fine since it's less likely and has an extremely clear + viable replacement now.
-Not sure what you mean by this point?
It's not all going to be absolutely perfect, but these announced changes are good and the patch overall looks pretty damn decent. It's not the end of balancing for this game, things are still going to be changed moving forward.
Bloodlust only serves the purpose of handholding bad killers. Tier 1 can help in stronger tiles, like some main buildings, but more than that serves no purpose than to give killers undeserved hits.
Hard tunneling is still possible and easily achievable, survivors will go usually down when they have almost nothing to work with. It's not like they'll go down and after the unhook there will be 5 pallets in any given direction. "without perks": So what you're saying is... We need to bring anti tunneling perks? Speaking of meta shift...
DS is not fine. It's useless. And there is no actual anti tunneling mechanic to counterbalance that nerf.
And the last point speaks for itself. Stacking slowdowns and stacking second chances has always been the issue, that was ALSO pointed out in the first dev note. Now stacking 'second chances' has been nerfed quite a lot with the endurance change and the DS nerf. But stacking slowdowns is still easily achievable. Again, meta shift where?
- I also forgot to add, and read now somewhere, nothing about Thana, or anyway, about 'forever legion' more than Thana itself. The devs really never learn, as if forever Freddy never existed. And it's not legion is some popular killer to go against (unlike popular to play)
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@Mozic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056450#Comment_3056450
Bad killers deserve hits too 😀
Ok, let's apply this logic to bad survivors, who deserve to escape too then
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- bloodlust still easier to get when it should be entirely removed (or at least tiers above the first shouldn't exist), especially with chases being simplified by the basekit buffs already. Higher bloodlust tiers only reward bad killers into getting undeserved hits. Weren't the results of that weekend without bloodlust saying that there were no noticeable changes?
- still no mention on how this patch should help against camping & tunneling, even though according to how it was publicized on the stream and in the first dev note, it was supposed to focus on these 'tactics' too. As I said elsewhere, the 5 second BT won't help if a killer is hard on tunneling someone. And it doesn't help against camping, that is actually encouraged already by the basekit buffs + the longer generator times, as confirmed by @MandyTalk herself
- calm spirit not reverted?? No further changes to DS?
- stacking second chances = bad; stacking slowdowns = good, got it
But keep pretending these problems don't exist
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055012#Comment_3055012
Nurse requires a ton of practice to do well. The others are extremely strong with way less practice.
The only thing wrong with Nurse is when they made some adjustments to her recently they made her blink way faster. Survivors have a much harder time juking. They need to revert those fixes. Killer players gravitate to what is broken so that is indeed broken. Slow down those blink speeds and you'll immediately see all the amateur nurse mains slow down a little because they won't have an unfair advantage.
Just like when Blight had his exploit fixed, you see less Blights. Fix Nurse, it is all she needs.
You never saw a single Nurse complaint until they fixed her bugs recently. Pretty ironic. Exploits are bad.
Correction: The addons for distance increases the speed of her blink is what needs fixed!
This is a genuine question and I hope you'll answer: what's your nurse build?