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She's not difficult, but I don't think she's the easiest.
For example, I think Spirit is easier to play
Also it seems like people tend to confuse how easy a killer power is to use with its strength or other stuff like general game sense, pressuring, survivor pathing vs that specific killer, map knowledge or general killer knowledge
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117333#Comment_3117333
No reason to be a dickhead. I clearly posted its my opinion and I’m open to debate. I simply asked to see your gameplay, not as an arguement. everybody’s go-to is “nurse is so easy to play”, and she’s clearly not. We have all gotten those nurses that cannot play nurse, and the entire game is running circles around the killer.
I'm not gonna share gameplay for a variety of reasons (especially because of what I said earlier), but I'm going to share with you my nightlight stats from the past 90 days. You'll have to take my word for this but I uploaded every single game I did on her, so I'm not 'cheating' my stats to have a higher winrate, however there's no way to prove this.
https://i.imgur.com/AnCcjqj.png https://i.imgur.com/ayXsUnO.png254 nurse games in the past 90 days, almost all of them without add-ons (sadly the website doesn't track add-ons either, so you'll have to take my word for this too)
My most used build is BBQ/IAE/LP/Jolt. Other builds were usually for exposed challenges in tomes. You can also see the most used survivor perks in my experience, top one being obviously DH, seen 490 times
The 4ks were 154, 3ks were 69 (hehe), 2ks were 11, 1k were 12 and 0k were 3
I do consider her basekit balanced, the games I usually have the most fun on either end in a 3-4 k at 1/0 gens left or they end straight up in a 2k. However, when I say basekit, I consider "my" basekit where I don't use exposed perks. Nurse add-ons are too strong, her post blink attack being M1 is too strong, and both of them need to be nerfed
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117394#Comment_3117394
Dead Dawg is Nurse's second best map. And Coal Tower is where most tournaments are played, and Nurse gets 2ks there.
No LOL Nurse in CT is literally EXPECTED to 4k at 1 gen left
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117211#Comment_3117211
She isn't difficult, but she's still one of the hardest killers. Nothing in this game is really difficult tbh
Your last statement is something I can agree with, however:
@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117297#Comment_3117297
Nurse has the same mobility as a normal killer. All she has is her chase.
Anyways, tournaments prove she's balanced. When equally skilled players run the strongest things, Nurse has a 2k average.
This is false. Coal tower/dead dawg saloon nurse for example was expected to 4k already pre perk rework. Wreckers yard and chapel was expected 8/10 hook stages, but after the rework I've seen some comp nurse gameplay in WY and it was always a 4k. Haven't seen any chapel yet, though
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117318#Comment_3117318
Let’s see your nurse gameplay then.
Ok so do you want a game where I 4k so I can easily prove my point? Or will you call the survivors of that game 'bad' because I 4ked with a normal build?
God what a dumb argument asking for gameplay videos
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117211#Comment_3117211
I have honestly only seen one Nurse that impressed me to the point where I FINALLY understood why survivors are so salty about Nurse. That being said, most of the people I have seen were very beatable. No idea how such average players are consistently going against God tier Nurse.
Because to beat even an average nurse using stupidly strong builds such as exposed perks, multiple strong slowdowns and strong add-ons, you need a very coordinated team. This is no where close to anything I'd define as balanced
@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117211#Comment_3117211
She is the most difficult killer to play, and that’s just a fact. Nobody can hop on nurse and beat a good team of survivors.
No she is not, don't call 'facts' your opinions, especially when they're far from the truth
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There is no, and was never, such thing as 'mastering nurse', she is not a difficult killer to play, simple as that
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3116458#Comment_3116458
Against idiots, yes.
And by the way, the authority argument is a fallacy.
You know what else is a fallacy? Justifying the existence of stupidly strong things "because there's also this in the game!!"
Unless you willingly take offerings to mother's dwelling, you don't know whether you'll end up in it, and it's actually quite unlikely unless it's in the daily rotation.
And by the way, we can also use the argument to justify removing range: as long as maps as coal tower and midwich exist and the game and wreckers yard and chapel and *insert here smaller maps*, range add-ons need to go
Bottom line is: dumb argument
Oh, also the "against dumb survivors" argument doesn't work either. Because we can say those add-ons, paired with very strong builds, can be countered only by very strong teams, even when the killer is played by a very mediocre player. Sounds quite unbalanced that a mediocre player running such a build can be countered only by good survivors
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Self care was time efficient, it was popular at "high MMR" because it's more time efficient to self heal than to look for someone else and get healed.
Good players knew when and how to use it
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Joker memes, we truly live in a society ..
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I've got pages of '-rep wallhacks' in my steam profile + screenshots of end game chat
Best compliment, basically means 'you did well'
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Not even if paid will I ever take seriously a thread with the words "clicky clicky" and "teabag" in them
Grow up
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I've been playing lobby simulator for a while now, while watching tv shows or playing other stuff.
Starting DBD is a habit, but I can't get myself to press 'ready'
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109366#Comment_3109366
What about the survivor mains going on 200+ escape streaks?
Stop. You're taking a look a comp players wrecking public lobbies to decide whether something is balanced or not. If these people really wanted to, they could do the same exact thing with any other killer. And same goes for those escape streaks. They don't matter. They're more skilled than 99% of the playerbase, they should be winning 99% of the time.
As i said earlier, that was my whole point.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109593#Comment_3109593
I'm saying both conclusions are stupid.
Ok then we can agree.
My first post to which you replied was exactly to point out the stupidity of the argument that other guy made about 'swf op's, because that argument can be made about everything
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109366#Comment_3109366
Any big win streak from absurdly good players is irrelevant lmao, they’re better than the absolute majority of the playerbase. You are talking about a comp player using super strong builds on Nurse and going all-out against pub lobbies. It would be stupid they don’t stomp most matches given they are better than the majority of players.
If you put Team Eternal (the best DBD comp team in the world currently) on 4 man SWF and had them play with absolute strongest builds and going all out against pubs, they would eviscerate basically every single lobby ever.
Also, the Nurse player in question still had multiple games where he nearly lost the streak even despite everything in his favor, because he occasionally came up against also extremely insane players, which he had barely won through the skin of his teeth. His streak could have been over like 5x over already if it had gone even slightly differently.
Ok so nurse gets 200+ wins BUT some games were close -> she's not broken
Hens gets 150+ wins BUT some games were close -> swf broken
Please explain
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Considering how disastrous the Nemesis chapter was, not at all. Boring yet-another-hold-w-anti-loop-killer, the worst map ever released in this game by far under every possible aspect, optimization that went from bad to terrible, who has more?
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
No, this is proof that survivors are so overpowered that they can go on huge streaks and the only thing they are capable of losing to is the most powerful killer in the game being played in the most sweaty manner possible. The takeaway here isn't "nerf nurse", it's "nerf survivors"
What about nurses going on 200+ win streaks? Those don't count as broken right? Those are ok right?
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It's not about "not being too bad", it's about what on earth was so op and in need of a nerf that calm spirit had. It was already a niche perk.
I can actually be precise: out of 400 killer games I did in the past few months, I saw calm spirit exactly 6 times (as in 6 survivors out of 1600). Why did it need a drawback?
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@Akumakaji said:
In another thread I just had a discussion about PainRes. This one here really baffles me. I thought that the combo with DMS was the one that we wanted to get rid off and I was fine with that nerc, because it was pretty strong, and downright oppressive with Artist.
But I always disliked the way PainRes played post patch, ie you hook someone and don't know if it worked, don't know were to go next and instead of giving you a clear next goal, ie the gen exploding somewhere, you were left standing and maybe thought "let's start here and trade hooks, then". Yes, it was an awesome perk with its double feature, but I always cherish build in anti camp.
I always thought that maybe giving it back the distant gen explosion, but leaving survivors on that gen unaffected, ie neither making them scream, nor throwing them off, would have been the healthier option, ie you hear and see the gen explode and might go there to look for a survivor or decide against it, your call.
But now they brought back the screaming and throwing survivors off of gens, enabling DMS combo back, but still hide the gens explosion. Imho they got it backwards. Now if you hook someone you might here nothing and you might stay at your hook, camping and trading, or you might here a scream and then know 100% were other survivors are.
You always knew if PR worked even after the patch. If a generator was regressed, you would get the damaged generator event with corresponding bloodpoints, otherwise you wouldn't
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106783#Comment_3106783
That sounds like a team mate issue, and not a DMS/pr issue then. Doesn't it ? It shouldn't of been taken away just for the sake of being taken away. When it's stupidly easy to counter.
It's still very obnoxious, but honestly I'd take this rather than eruption. At least, as you say, this *is* counterable.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106643#Comment_3106643
Is it really that hard to let go of a gen for a split second...?
Apparently for my team mates it is
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I don't see why pain resonance + merciless storm was even a problem at all tbh, storm is a terrible perk as it stands.
I'm fine with the DMS nerf though only because it nerfs it on Artist, even though it's kinda going to suck on most killers now.
I have honestly never encountered that combo and didn't know it was a thing until now, but I agree, it doesn't sound problematic at all. I don't get why they would revert a change to something that just requires to do many easy skillchecks vs something as problematic as PR+DMS
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Why can't they just nerf DMS duration AND give a time limit to Merciless storm is beyond me. DMS lasting 45 seconds is still ridiculous and it NEEDED this nerf, but we also really didn't need to get PR+DMS back, especially since we have also Eruption doing the same thing now.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104323#Comment_3104323
I don't know.
Maybe a bit more - but yeah, nobody likes being nerfed and there's definitely a lot of pouting.
Name one survivor perk that is utterly useless now that wasn't before the patch.
'Fun' is subjective, and from my own experiences seems to mean 'I can win whilst playing chill'. Before the patch, maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of my games had a DCing or suiciding survivor, generally on the first down.
It's not something that should be encouraged. You don't teach a kid not to sulk by giving in. You wait until they start behaving themselves, then you can have a discussion. Otherwise they learn that if they don't get their way, they just have to pitch a tantrum and they'll get it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104373#Comment_3104373
It absolutely does. You're deliberately throwing the game for 3 other people because you're having a sulk.
'It's lore accurate to be toxic'...yeah, I don't think you want to go down that road.
No, it all comes down to 'I was able to win pretty easily with x strategy prepatch, now I can't - therefore I'm not having fun, therefore I'm justified in ruining games until I get my way'. You can clearly see this watching almost any streamer - note how often survivors cable pull or suicide on the first down, whether they are facing Nurse or Trapper.
On my end, if I play Artist, Myers, Ghostface or Slinger, people play the game out...maybe 4/5 of the time.
If I play Hag, Trickster, Doctor or Dredge, I'm getting DC'd on at least 1/3 of the time.
DS, IW
It's not about 'disliking getting nerfed'. The changes they brought would have been (mostly) good if they were accompanied by fixes to tunneling, camping and stronger killers. But they weren't.
The mostly is refered to bloodlust, which I still find unbelievable it got buffed
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I'm sure this was already said since the thread is 3 pages in, but if we want to generalize even further, we can say that this patch showed a lot about killers too.
"But man!!! We're FORCED to camp and tunnel, or play extremely meta builds, if we want to have a chance!!!!" Well what's your excuse now :l
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103611#Comment_3103611
I don't camp. I don't tunnel. I don't play especially mean.
I still see a DC in 25-30% of my games.
Clearly, the DC penalty is not fine - and if people are going to find another way to ruin games, the answer is to also penalize that.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103802#Comment_3103802
No, they are correct.
Killer DCs = everyone moves along with some BP, straight to their next game.
A survivor DCs = now killer has to spend time playing an annoying game, hunting down 3 people who've gone AFK in lockers or in the shrubbery, or 3 people have to play out a boring, unwinnable game.
These play out differently in reality, and you can't really compare them - unless the killer DCing meant that survivors had to finish all the gens and then leave, whilst also getting a penalty to BP and points gained.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103714#Comment_3103714
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103719#Comment_3103719
Start it at zero.
The problem with DbD is the way that the penalty is handled. Most sensible systems allow you a free crash or two, then an escalating penalty that quickly gets quite nasty. To make the penalty decrease, you have to play out games without DCing.
In DbD it's purely based on time - which basically means that people can DC at least twice a day before they start to feel it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103675#Comment_3103675
You shouldn't be punished for the occasional crash.
If you're crashing daily, you need to be encouraged to stop.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103658#Comment_3103658
Shrug.
By the same logic, if you can't cure the disease, you need to manage the symptoms.
People will always find something they don't like to face, and - this being the internet - will then amp this up to 'omg this is frustrating to fae and I'm not having fun unless I win, so I should be able to DC'.
No matter what you change, you aren't going to fix that.
So you have to control it.
People will always find a reason to dc, but are you denying there was an extreme spike in dcs after the patch?
"We worked on so many perks by rendering them utterly useless and buffed killers, we didn't have time to address problematic aspects on the killer side and balance them accordingly :'( " -quoting the devs
Personally, I hadn't seen so many dcs since last time the penalty was disabled.
My point being there is a huge dissatisfaction with the patch, due to how the devs failed to address a lot of aspects of the game that they actually claimed they were going to look into with it. Plus, let's not talk about those broken (mainly S tier) killer addons people have been complaining since wayyy before the patch.
This is the result, and just bandaiding yet again with harsher punishments is really not the way to go. There's a reason people aren't having fun
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@Devil_hit11 said:
@Sunkisses_ that sounds like something they would do on nurse. they'd lower her skill-floor by giving her plaid flannel base-kit similar to pinhead's gateway and give visual indicator where the blink is going for survivor to react to the blink which lower skill-floor for nurse and it makes it easier survivor to play against her combine with lower lunge range.
it would close to spirit change where killer is easier to play but less powerful overall since survivor has more control over the ability.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3102479#Comment_3102479
oni is great example of a killer where his drawback is so severe that it makes him unable to compete against good teams. having ~90 forced cooldowns from orb collections makes him terrible vs swf. in practice Oni is suppose have weak early game, but if he gets hit, he's suppose to snowball and be able recycle his ability, but that doesn't really happen at default vs strong teams.
there's currently bug that makes survivors drop double blood orbs with current Oni, so current Oni with bug is close to what default Oni should be like, but its bug for now that will likely get fixed.
Excuse me, have you actually seen good Oni players? Oni is a really solid killer even in comp. You're just talking nonsense without having an actual clue of what you're saying
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It's very strong to go against, especially in solo queue, but even in a decent swf. It basically has no counter as you can't tell when someone else is going to go down.
It's funny how they nerfed the PR+DMS combo just to turn it into one single perk
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Nope, hug bug still not fixed yet
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3102605#Comment_3102605
Just so I understand this correctly. Does that mean they could (e.g., in the form of my example) but they don't want to?
Yeah
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Considering how they handle any feedback and how slow they are, enjoy getting ignored
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@Bwsted said:
I always loved Myers'. He sound like he's about to tell you 'wth man, why did you do that?!'
I'll second to Myers (+ Plague)
Whenever I stun them, I can't help but imitating their sounds out loud
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I actually agree with what he said, because it's basically what I've always been saying too in this forum.
Nurse's base power is fine. Her real problems are the add-ons that make her extremely forgiving of mistakes (yes, recharge too), and the fact that her power is extremely synergetic with exposed perks.
I can't count how many times I've seen literal garbage nurses getting undeserved wins just because they're horribly carried by these two (horribly broken) factors.
While I don't agree her power should be reworked, because she IS fun to play in her current state, her add-ons should be gutted. She doesn't need good ones.
But that's exactly the same with blight, spirit (MDR, DCB)...
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It was one of the most broken perks ever released, same level as CoH.
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@Mandy said:
This last mid chapter patch was a big one, there were a lot of changes made including base changes. We are very well aware that it is going to take time for this to settle down and it's something that we are continually monitoring and if we see the need to make changes to things further down the line - that's something we will do.
However, we're not making knee jerk reactions here - if we do see things that we know are going to be an issue of high importance we will of course make changes in the planned Hotfixes, there might also be further changes made down the line depending on how things play out once players have had time to adjust to a lot of the recent changes.
Dead by Daylight is a Live game, it's continually evolving and changes made based on this. The plan of this update was to increase kill rates as those were lower than we would like. It will take some time to fully see the extent of the changes made, players adapt etc. This update and the after effects of this update is definitely something we are monitoring closely.
Thanks for your non responses, as usual
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Easiest wins I ever have
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@Little_Kitten said:
Were you able to determine the limit of this range? 😲
I *think* the range is 40 meters
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It feels more like being stuck in a very crowded train for a very looooong trip. You know it will eventually be over, but man is it unpleasant (there's probably also that one person that unwraps one of those nasty sandwhiches that fills the place with a horrible stench to make everything worse)
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The ######### you on about?
Nurse is EXPECTED to 4k in Coal Tower and Saloon, In Chapel and WY she's expected from 8 to 10 hook stages and the only map that was used for her where she got "balanced" results (2k - 6 stages) is Groaning Storehouse
And this while nurse is the killer with the major number of restrictions (along with blight): she can't use basically most slowdown perks
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@Aneurysm said:
I don't think blight is generally considered unfun, there are plenty of complaints usually revolving around exploits, sweaty builds, ridiculous addons and seeing him every match, but less so about how his base power functions.
Blight is not unfun, it's those who play him
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091588#Comment_3091588
I think that's a pretty disingenuous look on how I play the game. You imply I don't try my hardest to win as survivor, which implies I do try my hardest to win as killer, which as anyone that watches me play killer can attest, that is completely untrue. The truth is I don't try hard to win in any aspect of the game because I don't enjoy that. Frankly I think more people would have fun with DBD if they cared a bit less about it. I still try to win all of my matches, but not if it comes at the detriment to my fun.
I don't even think it's even worth debating this, it's my word against yours on how *you* play the game
I just want to say that I didn't imply you try your hardest on killer or don't try your hardest on survivor. I said that you take the game less seriously when you play survivor, which is different. When you play killer you play a lot more efficiently than when you play survivor, where as said earlier you often go for dumb plays and stuff that can effectively hinder your team
We could also argue that when playing killer there is a lot less freedom under that point of view, because there effectively aren't many creative ways to try and fool survivors and outplay them as there are on the opposite side, so you end up playing mostly in a normal way
If you still think that's not true I don't know what to say, that's the impression you give me whenever I watch your channels. Don't get me wrong this is in no way criticism to your gameplay, it's just why I don't agree with your video
Also, you didn't comment on the second part of my first post, something that I feel you failed to mention properly in your video, but that imho still plays an important role on the tunneling aspect
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@Bwsted said:
The problem with his take is that he literally plays this for a living and he just memes around when playing survivor. Some of his self-imposed challenges made him that kind of survivor very few would like as a teammate, if you know what I mean.
He goes in there with a mindset completely different from the casual gamer who's investing their free time for leisure. While definitely no one deserve to win without effort and knowledge, every player would at least like to have a shot at an enjoyable experience.
It's also a completely different way from how he approaches the game when he plays killer, where he actually tries to win, even when he tried challenges.
Secondly, his take about soloq is just shy of ignorant. Saying soloq was miserable pre-patch (true) to downplay the sentiment that now it's even MORE miserable, just completely misses the mark of why people are upset. Imagine you get beat up barefist by someone every day, but you push through it. Then, one day they show up with a baseball bat. Are you gonna say you should put up with the latter just because you did with the former and because both are miserable anyway? That's the essence of his argument.
Thirdly, the problem is not tunneling by itself. The issue is more complex. The problem with survivor gameplay is that most of what you do post 6.1.0 feels inconsequential to the outcome of the match and the interaction with the killer is flimsy and predictable and the remainder is to hold down a button.
There's camping first, where no one literally gets to do anything but hold m1, hang on hook, or 1-for-1/get grabbed. Then comes the actual tunneling, that most of the time doesn't translate to chase interaction as Scott tried to suggest, because of either overly oppressive antiloop or simply getting easily bloodlusted. In either case, the tunnel doesn't add gameplay. It's just a rehook simulator. And finally, there's the actual gen repairing that with the bloated repair time and with the plethora of regression just feel like an inane exercise, while someone else gets camptunned.
Finally, unless I understand what he said wrong, or the perk is bugged again, but Overcome is the single worst exhaustion perk you can pick if you want to avoid getting tunneled. You literally have no exhaustion after getting unhooked and as soon as the killer realized that's what you're running in your first chase, that paints a giant bullseye on your back saying "please, eliminate me."
This.
I'd also like to add that whenever Scott plays survivor, he doesn't play 'to win', unlike when he plays killer. He mostly ######### around and tries dumb stuff, which is totally ok if he wants to. However, that makes his opinion less agreeable with, simply because he doesn't take the game 'as seriously' as when he plays killer, where he actively tries to win most of the times.
Edit: I actually realized you said exactly the same thing. I just somehow skipped the short paragraph where you also point out that he plays to win when he plays killer (probably because scrolling on phone)! Ok so basically i just repeated exactly what you said, but I literally have the same thoughts on the matter.
Also, another thing that he didn't address in the video, or addressed poorly, is when he said that people might want to "take a break" between one chase and the other. It's not only that, it's the fact that survivors NEED to take breaks in order to gain bloodpoints from other activities. The only thing a killer needs to not do to end the game with less than 10k bps is basement facecamp. They can literally tunnel people out off hook and still end their game with 25k bps at least. Meanwhile a survivor getting tunneled all game ends his match with what, 8k bps? Or even less. That's literally a whole waste of a game.
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@Jago said:
Hens is on a 150 escape in a row. Your point ?
Yes & no, it's a 'win streak', where a win is 3+ man escape. That's quote different from "4 man escape"
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This video only showcases that nurse seriously needs to have her range add-ons reworked and post blink attack being turned into special, as it's literally a free win eyes closed, to the point that basically no one wants to deal with that bullshit
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I'm not ragequitting, I'm making use of something the developers gave me option too as well, and I'm free to use them too as much as the killers are free to use their builds: 3 self unhook tries and the possibility of not hitting skillchecks
In the end, the ones wasting time are them because survivor queue as of now is instant
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'sit on my face' is censored :( don't ask me why i know
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083458#Comment_3083458
Its 24k people and in Steam around 40k people log every day or so, depends on the month, it can be checked on Steamcharts.
No, it's around 40k concurrent people. That's different than 40k people daily
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I still haven't versed any but I played her quite a bit. I used to play her also prior to the patch, and I gotta say that not dealing with IW has made her games more enjoyable
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Jolt on any killer that downs with M1. Deadlock otherwise